Tuesday 26th April 2016

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 6:34 am

Morning all.

"Mr Field will say: "The last thing Jeremy needs to do is to undermine further the traditional Labour vote, much of which wishes to leave the European Union. "

Frank Field warns Labour of EU vote 'danger' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36135768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not just undermine. Undermine further.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 6:41 am

The day is finally here. From 11, the Hillsborough jury are going to provide their answers to the following questions. Question six was the one that they were told a majority verdict (8-1 or 7-2, there are only 9 jurors left) would be acceptable after asking previously for guidance on what constitutes 'gross negligence'.

Question one
Do you agree with the following statement: On April 15 1989, 96 people died in the disaster as a result of crushing in the central pens of the Leppings Lane terrace, following the admission of a large number of supporters to the stadium through the exit gates.

Question two
Was there any error or omission in police planning and preparation for the semi-final on April 15, 1989, which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation that developed on the day of the match?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any error or omission in planning or preparation MAY have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

They were given a list of factors to consider, including whether the system of allowing fans to “find their own level” on the terrace was satisfactory and whether the selection of senior officers should have been different.

Question three
Was there any error or omission in policing on the day of the match which caused or contributed to a dangerous situation developing at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any error or omission in policing MAY have caused or contributed.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

They were given a list of factors to consider, including whether senior officers should have done more to identify the risk of a dangerous build up of fans and what action they did take to deal with the situation.

Question four
Was there any error or omission by commanding officers which caused or contributed to the crush on the terrace?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any error or omission by commanding officers MAY have caused or contributed to the crush.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

A list of considerations for the jury included whether it should have been obvious to officers in the police control box that the central pens were unusually or dangerously overcrowded and whether commanding officers could and should have taken further action in response to the packing of the central pens.

Question five
When the order was given to open the exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the stadium, was there any error or omission by the commanding officers in the control box which caused or contributed to the crush on the terrace?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any error or omission by commanding officers MAY have caused or contributed to the crush.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

The jury were advised to consider factors such as whether commanding officers could have given any further order to stop more supporters going down the tunnel to the central pens.

Question six
Are you satisfied, so that you are sure, that those who died in the disaster were unlawfully killed?

Sir John told the jury: “In order to answer ‘yes’ to that question, you would have to be sure that David Duckenfield, the match commander, was responsible for the manslaughter by gross negligence of those 96 people.

“When answering this question we are looking at Mr Duckenfield’s conduct and his responsibility.”

He said they would have to be sure that Mr Duckenfield owed a duty of care to the 96 people who died, that he breached that duty of care, that his breach caused their deaths and that the breach amounted to “gross negligence”.

Question seven
Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?”

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any behaviour MAY have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation.

If they answer yes to either questions they will be asked: “Was that behaviour unusual or unforeseeable?”

They are able to give an explanation if they want to.

The jury were given a list of considerations including whether fans behaved in a way which was unusually resistant of police control and whether there were significant numbers of fans without tickets.

Question eight
Were there any features of the design, construction and layout of the stadium which you consider were dangerous or defective and which caused or contributed to the disaster?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any features MAY have caused or contributed to the crush.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

The jury were advised to consider factors such as whether the Leppings Lane entrance had too few turnstiles for a capacity match and whether the fencing around pens made any contribution to the disaster.

Question nine
Was there any error or omission in the safety certification and oversight of Hillsborough Stadium that caused or contributed to the disaster?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any errors or omissions in the safety certification or oversight MAY have caused or contributed to the crush.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

The jury were advised to consider factors such as including whether the capacity of the terrace should have been clarified, reconsidered and/or recalculated after changes to the stadium and whether those responsible for the safety certification could and should have raised concerns.

Question 10
Was there any error or omission by Sheffield Wednesday and its staff in the management of the stadium and/or preparation for the semi-final match on April 15, 1989, which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation that developed on the day of the match?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any error or omission MAY have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

A list of considerations included whether the club should have done more in preparing for the match.

Question 11
Was there any error or omission by Sheffield Wednesday and its staff on April 15, 1989, which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation that developed at the Leppings Lane turnstiles and in the west terrace?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any error or omission MAY have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

A list of factors to consider included whether those in the club control room had a responsibility to monitor the conditions at the turnstiles.

Question 12
Should Eastwood and Partners (structural engineers) have done more to detect and advise on any unsafe or unsatisfactory features of Hillsborough Stadium which caused or contributed to the disaster?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether Eastwood and Partners should have done more to advise on features which MAY have caused or contributed to the disaster.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

The jury were advised to consider factors such as whether they correctly calculated capacity figures for the West Terrace of the ground in 1979.

Question 13
After the crush in the west terrace had begun to develop, was there any error or omission by the police which caused or contributed to the loss of lives in the disaster?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether any error or omission MAY have caused or contributed to the loss of lives.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

Factors to consider included whether commanding officers should have taken steps to relieve the crush at an earlier stage and whether officers at the perimeter fence reacted appropriately and promptly.

Question 14
After the crush in the west terrace had begun to develop, was there any error or omission by the ambulance service (SYMAS) which caused or contributed to the loss of lives in the disaster?

If they answer no, the jury will be asked whether there was any error or omission which MAY have caused or contributed to the loss of lives.

They will be able to explain their answer if they wish to.

The jury were advised to consider factors including whether SYMAS officers at the stadium could have done more to find out the nature and seriousness of the emergency and react to it.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 7:17 am

Good morning Stephen, and all.

Frank Field is......well, you all know what I think of him.

While we wait for justice for the 96, our junior doctors go on all-out strike.

As with most days in NHS hospitals, about a thousand people will die. That's the usual number, give or take a few hundred.
And that's because very ill people in hospitals die. All the time.
Hunt, Cameron, and the right-wing press will make it their business to find out exactly how many people die today and tomorrow.
They will pretend that those deaths are the fault of striking doctors.

Patients who have had routine work cancelled will be interviewed by various media; there will be outrage that these patients have been made to wait because of the selfish junior doctors, with no mention that those patients have probably already been waiting for months and have probably had their procedures cancelled before due to the mismanagement of the NHS in England.
Doctors will be found who do not agree with the strike, and they will be telling us that this is wrong and the juniors are just after more money. We can expect a dirty tricks campaign on this issue; Hunt will do whatever it takes to get public opinion on his side and he doesn't care how many (more) lies he has to tell in the process. A patients' death will suit his agenda just fine.

Cameron is backing Hunt to the hilt on this. As with his ridiculous posturing on Libya, which he wanted to be his "Falklands moment", he is using this strike for his political gain and is probably hoping it will be seen as his "Miners moment".
Being the moron he is, he doesn't understand what is going on here - Cameron is no Thatcher, the BMA is not Scargill, health is not coal, and the junior doctors are our brightest and best (no disrespect intended to miners).
He can drone on about this 7-day NHS being a manifesto commitment till the cows come home, but it means nothing when we all know how that manifesto is utterly meaningless.

I am furious with our government that it has come to this. I support the junior doctors unequivocally.
I just hope that the public sees through the propaganda that our supine media will regurgitate today.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 7:30 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

"Mr Field will say: "The last thing Jeremy needs to do is to undermine further the traditional Labour vote, much of which wishes to leave the European Union. "

Frank Field warns Labour of EU vote 'danger' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36135768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not just undermine. Undermine further.

I don't agree with the style of Field's intervention - having a go at Corbyn - or the way he frames some of the points 'second longest suicide note in history' etc - BUT the central issue he raises is real and we shouldn't dismiss IMO - that a significant proportion of the traditional Labour vote does want to leave the European Union. Canvassing reports from Milford Haven, Pembroke Dock and other places - and the rise in the Ukip vote - seem to bear that out. I wish the Labour party - especially pro Euros - could find a way of acknowledging that and being constructive in the way they address that.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:02 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

"Mr Field will say: "The last thing Jeremy needs to do is to undermine further the traditional Labour vote, much of which wishes to leave the European Union. "

Frank Field warns Labour of EU vote 'danger' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36135768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not just undermine. Undermine further.
I don't agree with the style of Field's intervention - having a go at Corbyn - or the way he frames some of the points 'second longest suicide note in history' etc - BUT the central issue he raises is real and we shouldn't dismiss IMO - that a significant proportion of the traditional Labour vote does want to leave the European Union. Canvassing reports from Milford Haven, Pembroke Dock and other places - and the rise in the Ukip vote - seem to bear that out. I wish the Labour party - especially pro Euros - could find a way of acknowledging that and being constructive in the way they address that.

Agreed. Frank Field is often very good at identifying and describing problems. He should stop there, though, and allow others to develop solutions. He doesn't accept that the situations that he speaks of are capable of being addressed in ways that involve education and\or persuasion and aren't solved by simply going along with the way things are.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:03 am

Good morfternoon.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:13 am

Good morning.

Because I'm going to be in training the next three days, I won't have computer access and won't be able to monitor for the jury's verdict live. What they decide is of massive importance, and I say that as a Manchester United fan who, in normal circumstances, would have nothinggood to say about Liverpool.

But Justice, Truth, Honesty and closure need to be served in this land, and the political response to Hillsborough has been an utter disgrace for far too long. Had the question ever been in my head on that day, I would not have believed it possible that you of Liverpool could have been made to wait this way.

It feels like a storm gathering.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:15 am

Today shocking on the strike again.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:22 am

Hunt on R4 now. Wanting to wring someone's neck doesn't make for a relaxing breakfast.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:25 am

Hunt, you lying twat.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:25 am

StephenDolan wrote:Today shocking on the strike again.

I heard the persistence of "But this will put patient's lives at risk" line being put to the national incident manager.

Why aren't they asking Hunt why he dismissed that all-party letter like this:

Jeremy Hunt ‏@Jeremy_Hunt Apr 24
Labour "plan" is opportunism - only 11% of junior docs go onto new contracts in August. We're staging implementation to ensure it works 1/2

So having two signatories that were in the DoH ministerial team under the Coalition make's it "Labour's plan"?

And why isn't anyone asking why he is even involved given Lansley's reforms were all about divorcing the SoS from control and making NHS Englsnd a quango?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:27 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Today shocking on the strike again.
I heard the persistence of "But this will put patient's lives at risk" line being put to the national incident manager.

Why aren't they asking Hunt why he dismissed that all-party letter like this:

Jeremy Hunt ‏@Jeremy_Hunt Apr 24
Labour "plan" is opportunism - only 11% of junior docs go onto new contracts in August. We're staging implementation to ensure it works 1/2

So having two signatories that were in the DoH ministerial team under the Coalition make's it "Labour's plan"?

And why isn't anyone asking why he is even involved given Lansley's reforms were all about divorcing the SoS from control and making NHS Englsnd a quango?

Well exactly.

Political journalists, health correspondents should know and be making these points.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:29 am

I need some light relief after that Hunt interview ...

Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson 4m4 minutes ago
UKIP's Bradford candidate, supposedly son of the city's old Labour MP, seems to be an imposter who's now vanished.

UKIP 'duped by imposter' claiming to be former Bradford MP's son
http://m.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/new ... _MP_s_son/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:31 am

Incidentally, the old FlyTheNest site vanished last night - I went to link to an article and it had gone!

And no, I hadn't copied all of the articles I'd done to elsewhere...

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:32 am

On a lighter note:

Samantha Cameron's 'foul-mouthed row' with Michael Gove's wife at birthday party

Maybe unexpected as Mrs C has always struck me as a bit of a Stepford Wife, swanning through life as if she's only vaguely aware of what's going on. It's probably as well to go on auto pilot rather than fully process the terrible reality of facing regular sexual congress with a sweaty and puce faced Dave (argh!!! pass the mind bleach!!!).

Anyway, apparently she and Sarah Vine have fallen out over Europe.

The Prime Minster’s wife and Sarah Vine, 49, have been friends for more than a decade but allegedly have not spoken since the reported spat two months ago in which they could both be heard “effing and blinding”.

It is claimed Mrs Cameron rounded on Ms Vine at Conservative Party chairman Lord Feldman’s 50th birthday party in late February accusing Ms Vine of “betrayal” after Mr Gove chose to back a Brexit .

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sa ... gory%20p$3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:35 am

Clause 22 of the junior doctors contract gives the NHS absolute discretion to review,revise,amend or replace any term or condition.
Solidarity with the junior doctors.

I believe the majority decision in question 6 above reached is 7/2.

JFT 96 YNWA.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:37 am

Sunny Hundal Retweeted
Nicola Kelly ‏@mllenicolakelly 5m5 minutes ago
Nicola Kelly Retweeted Sunny Hundal
'Health Secretaries are never popular', apparently. Only those who alienate the people they are meant to represent.

Sunny Hundal
‏@sunny_hundal
Jeremy Hunt says "this is likely to be my last big job in politics" to Nick Robinson.
I hope so Jeremy, I really hope so.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:45 am

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:47 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Incidentally, the old FlyTheNest site vanished last night - I went to link to an article and it had gone!

And no, I hadn't copied all of the articles I'd done to elsewhere...

It comes up with a link saying it can be restored within 7 days, by a (flythenest) administrator:

http://www.freeforums.org/reactivate.php?f=flythenest

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 8:59 am

For those that can access LFCTV it is free today covering the verdicts.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 9:24 am

hmm, found a link to yougov website,
that seems to show that the old flythenest site,
was popular with knitting enthusiasts but not ford car drivers??

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/flythen ... rrelations

I only had to answer Gideons name to sign up to this forum, were the previous rules more stringent?
fwiw I don't drive (can't), or knit (can), hope that's ok

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 9:27 am

tinybgoat wrote:hmm, found a link to yougov website,
that seems to show that the old flythenest site,
was popular with knitting enthusiasts but not ford car drivers??

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/flythen ... rrelations

I only had to answer Gideons name to sign up to this forum, were the previous rules more stringent?
fwiw I don't drive (can't), or knit (can), hope that's ok

I don't think so. After all, I've been here since the outset . . .

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 9:45 am

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 12s12 seconds ago
On the junior doctors' strike:
Support: 57%
Oppose: 26%
(via Ipsos Mori)

Another Tory minister not convincing the public? Fancy that...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 9:50 am

OK, off to the library - conclusion to write. Rehashed chapter 8 went in last night.

Onwards and upwards!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 9:50 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 12s12 seconds ago
On the junior doctors' strike:
Support: 57%
Oppose: 26%
(via Ipsos Mori)

Another Tory minister not convincing the public? Fancy that...

The YouGov 3 for today currently has 79% of Conservative voters opposing the strike.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 9:52 am

Frank Field may be overstating the proportion of Labour voters who are in favour of Brexit. He is saying 40% of the party’s supporters are in this category. But this recent YouGov poll (pdf) has just 23% of Labour voters backing Leave, 59% backing Remain, and the rest not knowing or not saying.(Politics Live, Guardian)

Yes, I know polls are not to be relied upon, but . . .

Still, it would be quite handy to get onside at least a goodly proportion of that "23%".

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 9:54 am

"Our health service doesn't work for people at the moment," leader Leanne Wood tells Today. She calls cancer waiting times "an absolute scandal" and claims that "people have to move to England to access rare drugs and treatments that they can't get in Wales".'

Via the BBC news app.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:02 am

The Sparrow blog today is all about Field.
AS compares him to Cassandra, the prophetess of doom - who, despite being ignored, was always right.
Field is no Cassandra.
Field says that 40% of Labour voters want Brexit. The polls say 23%.
Field says a lot of things.
Most of them not right.
Lest we forget - this is a man who supported IDS, believed in his "Easterhouse revelation", and once said that welfare based on need should be scrapped.

The fact that this "story" is the lead thing on the G's politics blog, when for the first time ever there is an all-out junior doctors' strike, the Tories managed to win a vote to refuse admission to 3,000 refugee children, the saga of BHS/Green/etc. continues with its' drip-drip-drip of revelations of tax evasion and general greed, and we wait for justice for the 96, is shameful.

There are more important things going on in politics today than the disjointed ramblings of a has-been who is in the wrong party - but as it's yet another opportunity to put the boot in to Corbyn, this is what we get as the big issue in politics. FFS.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:16 am

Philip Green. The business guru asked to come on board by Cameron, who had a £1bn dividend payout with no tax associated (sorry, that was his 'wife'), who suggested that the government could save money by manipulating their AAA rating (oops) to delay contract payments to save money, that Philip Green?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:20 am

I thought the same yesterday, why was AS blog all about Europe when there's so much else going on? I assume that's a conscious decision and it'll be the same until referendum day. AS'll be bored out of his mind by then.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:30 am

StephenDolan wrote:"Our health service doesn't work for people at the moment," leader Leanne Wood tells Today. She calls cancer waiting times "an absolute scandal" and claims that "people have to move to England to access rare drugs and treatments that they can't get in Wales".'

Via the BBC news app.

Little Miss Woody Two-Shoes needs to be careful.

In England, NHS England publishes figures for the 2-week wait to see a specialist if cancer is suspected, with the figures for the 31-day target for the first definitive cancer treatment after a cancer diagnosis, and the figures for the 62-day target for the first definitive cancer treatment following an urgent GP referral.
Wales does things differently - Stats Wales publishes the waiting times for the 2-week wait to see a specialist by Health Board; thereafter, it publishes the figures for the other targets in the same way as NHS England.

All this is further complicated by patients in both Wales and England having a GP and/or specialist referral in either country.

The 62-day target is based on - the 2-week wait ie. 14 days, plus the 31-day wait, ie. 45 days in total; plus an extra 17 days.
As the vast majority of patients in both countries are referred by their GPs on an urgent basis, this 62-day target is important.
Wales hits that target 95% of the time; England 85% of the time.
The 31-day target is the same for both countries - 96%

So Wales is doing better in terms of getting treatment started after an urgent GP referral.

People who travel to England for drugs/treatments that are not available in Wales do it for 2 reasons.
First, they are referred by NHS Wales to NHS England for very specific specialist treatment. There is nothing wrong with this. If a particular type of care is indicated clinically, then it's only right that a patient is referred to a place where they can get it.
Second, patients choose to move so that they can access the Cancer Drugs Fund. Most of the drugs people ask for are not life-saving, they are possibly life-extending; they are not approved by NICE or they would be routinely available for all.

Leanne Wood is making the NHS her big issue - as is LibDem Kirsty Williams - and both of them should do some homework.
They are not as well-informed as they think they are.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:34 am

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hillsborough disaster inquest jury to return verdict – live updates

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:50 am

Good-morning, everyone

I didn't know I'd be away from the Internet for three days - I would've mentioned it earlier

My spouse and I went to a wedding of two close friends
We danced to Raspberry Beret

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:55 am

citizenJA wrote:Good-morning, everyone

I didn't know I'd be away from the Internet for three days - I would've mentioned it earlier

My spouse and I went to a wedding of two close friends
We danced to Raspberry Beret

I'll let it go this time. In future, make sure you complete and submit the correct paperwork, please.

(I hope you had a good time.)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:02 am

If 40% of Labour voters really wanted Brexit, the outers would be set to win by a significant margin.

But, strangely, they aren't.

A half decent media would have asked Field for hard evidence of this figure, rather than swooning uncritically over his "free thinking" as they do.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:06 am

"A very bleak day for the NHS," said JHunt.
He's got a big smile on his face - that's not the face of someone who gives a damn about the NHS.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/vid ... -nhs-audio

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:13 am

Yes to 6.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:15 am

No to 7

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:16 am

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-morning, everyone

I didn't know I'd be away from the Internet for three days - I would've mentioned it earlier

My spouse and I went to a wedding of two close friends
We danced to Raspberry Beret
I'll let it go this time. In future, make sure you complete and submit the correct paperwork, please.

(I hope you had a good time.)

I love you people.
Your just reprimand of my negligent conduct is deserved.
I wish you all could've come to the wedding - such wonderful groups of people.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:18 am

HindleA wrote:No to 7

Brilliant for the 96, and for all football supporters.
I bet no-one is ever convicted of unlawful killing.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:22 am

Morning

At last justice. My uncle was there in the main stand and he saw the bodies as they were being stored away

The emergency services, including a vast majority of the police, tried their best but were let down by poor leadership and, it seems,followed by lying, cover-up and corruption

The tentacles of Tory misdirection and lies, coupled with the vileness of the Murdoch press. From now MacKenzie should be treated like the scum he is and given no further outlet to spew his vileness. The Murdoch press should again be relegated into the gutter where it belongs

I am sure Cameron will say some honeyed words but, as is his normal approach, they will be forgotten as soon as uttered and he will just move away onto something else and the 'free' press will be looking for some squirrels

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:23 am

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1434232 ... of-justice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour Press
This has been the greatest miscarriage of justice of our times. But, finally, it is over - Andy Burnham

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:24 am

Incredible news today

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:27 am

All 14 questions put to the jury - yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

The 96 were unlawfully killed.

At last.

Thank you.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:35 am

Hi again

I have just been thinking about the doctor's strike and the importnace of it

If we take out the justifiable reasons for this strike - and to me it is so obvious that it beggars belief - a 7 day NHS with no more funding and same staffing suggests that more hours worked per person....have I got it wrong?

We are left considering the attitude of the Great British People. If doctors, one of the most respected professions, is beaten by lies and falsehoods being spread by two of the most mistrusted (politicians and journalists) then what hope is there for us as a society?

To me a loss for the doctors here is the end of the hard won improvements we gained in the 20th Century...on the back of war and death at the extremes

You can already here the intolerance of certain members of the public at the temerity for someone to strike, because they have no union representation and are completely at the mercy of their employer. Snide comments about pensions, wages, hippocratic oaths etc etc

At the moment it is holding but the lies from the Tories and the press have started and they are vile......this is from the same two organisations that permitted and helped a great miscarriage of justice take 27 years to be corrected. I refer you all back to that Sun front page the day after....scum!

If the Tories win this one then we truly are lost...the Great British People will have again spoken and, whether it is wilful ignorance or just a loss of values, they will deserve everything they get - unfortunately the losers will be many

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:36 am

ephemerid wrote:All 14 questions put to the jury - yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

The 96 were unlawfully killed.

At last.

Thank you.

There was one 'no' - did the Liverpool fans contribute to the situation!

Damning

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:39 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:
There was one 'no' - did the Liverpool fans contribute to the situation!

Damning

Is that the only one that went to a majority verdict?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:40 am

JFT 96 You'll Never Walk Alone.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:42 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
There was one 'no' - did the Liverpool fans contribute to the situation!

Damning
Is that the only one that went to a majority verdict?

No AK that was unanimous the majority was for the previous question 6 on unlawful killing

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:53 am

CPS will be under considerable pressure now.