Wednesday 27th April 2016

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 6:05 am

Morning all.

' In 2015, there were 668,000 destitute households containing 1,252,000 people, including 312,000 children. The study said this was an underestimate because the data did not capture poor households who eschewed charity handouts or used only state-funded welfare services'

More than a million people in UK living in destitution, study shows

http://gu.com/p/4tjhd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 8:23 am

Morning all. This is such a good piece. So clearly sets out Hunt and the government's failings - and a fine analysis of how the balance between vocation and job has been trampled on by them. By a highly respected medic.

If patients come to harm in this NHS strike, it will be on Jeremy Hunt’s head
Henry Marsh
I was against their action. But now I understand why junior doctors are so desperate. The health service is not safe in the government’s hands
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... th-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... The selection process is a nationwide, entirely impersonal process, in which she will have minimal choice as to where she gets a job; and it pays no attention to personal or family commitments. She will be treated more like an army conscript than a future professional responsible for patients’ lives. What shift-working junior doctors have to do has already led to the loss of a sense of belonging and respect that doctors, including me, had in the past. Continuity of patient care, and the deep satisfaction that came with it, has also disappeared.

By treating the junior doctors as just another group of assembly-line workers, and seeing medicine as just another business, and by denying the looming financial crisis in the NHS, the government and its hired management consultants have entirely destroyed that subtle balance between vocation and money at the heart of healthcare.

I now understand more fully than I did before why the junior doctors have become quite so desperate and demoralised. If patients come to harm as a result of this tragic strike, I would now put the blame firmly on Hunt’s and the government’s shoulders. The NHS is not safe in their hands.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 8:27 am

Oh - and that article must be good and powerful as BTL is full of Tory denial and slur comments.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 8:35 am

Lib Dem Press Office ‏@LibDemPress 8m8 minutes ago
Quick memo to @BBCr4today, ex-DPP chief Ken Macdonald is not a Labour peer, he's @LibDemLords.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 8:39 am

Political Scrapbook ‏@PSbook 4m4 minutes ago
After online backlash, shamed Times newspaper puts Hillsborough on front page http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/04/a ... ront-page/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 8:51 am

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/vide ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hillsborough: anatomy of a disaster – video

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 9:02 am

Morning all.

Did we all read David Conn's stunning article on Hillsborough - quite long and painful to read but utterly compelling.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ed-decades

The fact that there are people who won't apologise for their remarks at the time and since is a disgrace. They should feel utterly ashamed of themselves.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 9:21 am

Today presenters, the reason we are talking about 'old men' is that it took 27 years of fighting by the HJC etc to get to the verdicts yesterday. That, and the SYP going back on their 2011 acceptance of mistakes made dragged out the process. As for Cameron's whining about not being given enough personal credit, perhaps he should reflect upon his 'blind man searching in a dark room for a black cat that isn't there'.

So many mixed emotions on this today. I anticipated feeling more upbeat. Reminds me that the Taylor report was ignored by the majority of the media and the whitewash that was the Stefan Popper inquest.

It's time for accountability.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 9:47 am

Frankie Boyle in the Graun:

Jeremy Hunt doesn’t understand junior doctors. He co-wrote a book on how to dismantle the NHS

....Of course, the strikers are saying this is about safety, not pay, as expecting to be paid a decent wage for a difficult and highly skilled job is now considered selfish. Surely expecting someone to work for free while people all around them are dying of cancer is only appropriate for the early stages of The X Factor. Sadly, Tories don’t understand why someone would stay in a job for decency and love when their mother was never around long enough to find out what language the nanny spoke.

The fact that Hunt co-wrote a book about how to dismantle the NHS makes him feel like a broad stroke in a heavy-handed satire. Even the name Jeremy Hunt is so redolent of upper-class brutality that it feels like he belongs in one of those Martin Amis books where working-class people are called things like Dave Rubbish and Billy Darts (No shade, Martin – I’m just a joke writer: I envy real writers, their metaphors and similes taking off into the imagination sky like big birds or something). Indeed, Jeremy Hunt is so overtly ridiculous that he might be best thought of as a sort of rodeo clown, put there simply there to distract the enraged public.

Agree with all that - apart from blaming Tory MPs' mothers for how they turned out. Can't generalise about that. However, sending a kid off to boarding school at the age of 7 cannot be good for the child's future psychological well being. Some only cope by shutting down emotionally and never recover from that - and seek to punish others for being 'other'.

However, some Tory MPs come from entirely different backgrounds - cheese fan Liz Truss for example had a sound home life and loving, supportive parents (who were also 'left of Labour' according to Truss) and she still turned out the way she did.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 9:51 am

Oh I missed this from yesterday (AS)

Albania’s prime minister has criticised Michael Gove, the justice secretary, for suggesting that the UK should adopt Albania’s relationship with the EU. Given that Albania wants to join the EU, Edi Rama said this was “ridiculous”. Rama told the World at One:

When I heard about it I thought it was a joke.

Then when I read it knowing that Mr Gove is one of the very intelligent persons in the UK politics I thought it was kind of weird because why in the world Brits would have to follow a model we don’t want for ourselves. We think it’s the other way round.

Talking about this new BBC - British Balkan Confederation - is really amazing, but not for serious politics. I am sorry to that because I have a lot of respect for Mr Gove as a person and it’s, let me say bluntly, ridiculous.

There's a few people who are not making themselves look good over this...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 9:56 am

The UK economy grew by 0.4% in the first three months of 2016, down from 0.6%
in the fourth quarter of 2015, the ONS says.
Here is the ONS statistical bulletin with the full details.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdom ... omarch2016

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 10:05 am

There's been little in the news about Tory MPs voting against allowing in 3,000 child refugees.

The Daily Mash's take on that story:

That Schindler was a meddling do-gooder, say Tories

RESCUING child refugees is the sort of sentimental nonsense that belongs in films, senior Tories have confirmed.

As pressure grows on the government to accept 3,000 vulnerable children into the UK, ministers are insisting they are all naughty little tinkers like the Artful Dodger, and should be kept away.

Tory MP Denys Finch-Hatton said: “Before you know it, the whole country will be overrun by gangs of marauding children.

“I’ve seen this sort of thing at the cinema. Fagin rescued abandoned children and they were a menace to society. Bugsy Malone and his gang were a terrible influence, and the Lost Boys just took advantage of Wendy’s kindness.

“And as for Schindler’s List, that film was about him having to take care of lots of kids that didn’t belong to him, because he meddled in other people’s business.

“Children should be isolated and alone, like when Mr Bumble locked Oliver in a cellar, but the cellar is actually France.”

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 10:38 am

Ah, PMQs. Where to start.

Junior doctors? EU Referendum? BHS?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 10:50 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Lib Dem Press Office ‏@LibDemPress 8m8 minutes ago
Quick memo to @BBCr4today, ex-DPP chief Ken Macdonald is not a Labour peer, he's @LibDemLords.

He used to be Labour, though - hence the confusion I suspect.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:02 am

"So how's the rebalancing of the economy going George? That March of the Makers?
"Erm..."

Astonishing that no sector apart from services is back above its 2008 level.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:07 am

NAO report into (not)Managing the Welfare Cap
https://www.nao.org.uk/report/managing-the-welfare-cap/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:16 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/go ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government warns 60,000 working people they could be worse off after Universal Credit changes

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:28 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Political Scrapbook ‏@PSbook 4m4 minutes ago
After online backlash, shamed Times newspaper puts Hillsborough on front page http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/04/a ... ront-page/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

So the rumours the Sun had a front page apology ready were just that. I don't suppose we should be massively surprised<sigh>

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:43 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
So the rumours the Sun had a front page apology ready were just that. I don't suppose we should be massively surprised<sigh>
The line that they had simply swallowed others' lies is what some rightwingers might call 'a mealy mouthed reply'. The fact is that they repeated the lies with evident and exuberent glee, not only unchallenged but given their wholehearted endorsement, and went far beyond what other media reported. Fortunately I think most people see straight through the 'nothing to see here' approach. I notice Boris has been uncharacteristically quiet for the last few days. I wonder if it's because of this:

They [Liverpudlians] see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it. Part of this flawed psychological state is that they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance against the rest of society. The deaths of more than 50 Liverpool football supporters at Hillsborough in 1989 was undeniably a greater tragedy than the single death, however horrible, of Mr [Ken] Bigley; but that is no excuse for Liverpool's failure to acknowledge, even to this day, the part played in the disaster by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground that Saturday afternoon. The police became a convenient scapegoat, and the Sun newspaper a whipping-boy for daring, albeit in a tasteless fashion, to hint at the wider causes of the incident.
http://www.igreens.org.uk/boris_johnson_on_bigley.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's like the Taylor report hadn't existed. I didn't buy his follow up very, very sorry with visit to Liverpool. Damage limitation exercise by Brand Boris.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:46 am

The threat of leaving is harming the economy according to Osborne. Remind me, which major party pledged to have this referendum?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:02 pm

Bravo Nandy. Slow handclap...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:17 pm

DfE Retweeted
No. 10 Press Office ‏@Number10press 4m4 minutes ago
PM: Academies are raising standards in our schools. I want a system where it’s heads and teachers running schools, not bureaucrats. #PMQs

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:28 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Bravo Nandy. Slow handclap...

What's this about?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:29 pm

Calling for Naz Shah to be suspended from Labour ?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:29 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
DfE Retweeted
No. 10 Press Office ‏@Number10press 4m4 minutes ago
PM: Academies are raising standards in our schools. I want a system where it’s heads and teachers running schools, not bureaucrats. #PMQs

Local authority controlled schools are run by bureaucrats.
Schools that join a MAT are freed up.
Local authorities will be allowed to be MAT.

Local authorities controlled schools aren't run by bureaucrats.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:32 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
DfE Retweeted
No. 10 Press Office ‏@Number10press 4m4 minutes ago
PM: Academies are raising standards in our schools. I want a system where it’s heads and teachers running schools, not bureaucrats. #PMQs

Local authority controlled schools are run by bureaucrats.
Schools that join a MAT are freed up.
Local authorities will be allowed to be MAT.

Local authorities controlled schools aren't run by bureaucrats.

John Connor
‏@bootleian
@ChrisChivers2 @MichaelRosenYes Agreed. And an LA becoming a MAT will have more control over schools than if they'd remained an LA. Bizarre.

Quite.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:35 pm

yahyah wrote:Calling for Naz Shah to be suspended from Labour ?

I can understand that, tbf.

Shah has apologised and that is quite right, but IMO she needs to go further. Meeting some Jewish groups might well be a good idea. And making clear not only that she no longer holds these views herself, but driving home to others in her community that they are wrong and totally unacceptable.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:40 pm

Teresa May now on BBC News channel making her statement on Hillsborough

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:43 pm

May paid tribute to Andy Burnham, and other Liverpool MPs.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:48 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

' In 2015, there were 668,000 destitute households containing 1,252,000 people, including 312,000 children. The study said this was an underestimate because the data did not capture poor households who eschewed charity handouts or used only state-funded welfare services'

More than a million people in UK living in destitution, study shows

http://gu.com/p/4tjhd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In other words we have a million paupers....

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:52 pm

yahyah wrote:May paid tribute to Andy Burnham, and other Liverpool MPs.

Ms May deserves some credit herself with her HIP green light and her response to its conclusions in the house of Commons.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 12:54 pm

She's coming across well.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 1:01 pm

yahyah wrote:She's coming across well.

Something she doesn't always do, to put it mildly.

Nonetheless, this reminds us not to overlook her in the coming Tory leadership contest. She has a genuine chance IMO.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 1:02 pm

It seemed genuine too.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 1:04 pm

Andy on great form too. My husband just saying if he'd come across more like this when he ran for Labour leader he'd have stood a better chance.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 1:06 pm

yahyah wrote:It seemed genuine too.

Perhaps she's not a good liar, so never comes across well when spouting the government line?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 1:07 pm

yahyah wrote:It seemed genuine too.

Yes that's how she came across post HIP report.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 1:15 pm

He says Westminster was involved. He says the cover-up was defended in committee rooms in the Commons, and in the press room at Number 10.

Well said Burnham.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 2:08 pm

StephenDolan wrote:He says Westminster was involved. He says the cover-up was defended in committee rooms in the Commons, and in the press room at Number 10.

Well said Burnham.

Agree with you on Burnham. Well deserved applause from all sides of the house. Following on from the kindergarten playground of PMQs adding nothing to our political landscape the contributions from both Theresa May and Andy Burnham showed that politicians can be (what they are elected to be) grown up mature individuals working for the common good. It did them both credit.

Interesting to me that there has rightly been a lot of comment and discussion today in the MSM and (not surprisingly) on Daily Politics regarding the (unacceptable) comments made by Naz Shah a couple of years ago. Let me make it clear there is no room for these kind of remarks anywhere, at any time, on any platform. For what its worth I agree with Lisa Nandy that a period of suspension would have been in order.

Should we not, however, be studying at least as comprehensively remarks made about the victims and relatives of Hillsborough made by David Cameron, Jeremy Hunt, No 10 spokespeople, Bernard Ingham and Margaret Thatcher and others? They perpetuated the media lies long after the event and I am afraid the argument that I am only repeating what I was told does not hold water. True journalists and conscientious politicians (without a bias or vested interest) would have found out the facts before repeating lies,slurs and innuendos.I am not forgetting, by the way, the shameful way the Blair government abandoned the relatives.

I am pleased that Andy Burnham now seems to be widening his attempts to review the actions of South Yorkshire police over the years of Peter Wrights command, not least the Orgreave dispute. This is, in many respects similar to Hillsborough, an event that needs for the truth to finally come out.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 2:32 pm

Melted my iron yesterday using a de-scaler so had to buy another this morning. On the way there caught a snatch of discussion about the disaster on Radio 4.
Huge cover up by the top echelons in the police they said. And I read yesterday something about the Masons being involved in the inquiry ... It's the first time I've heard/read of the Masons being involved in something like that.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 2:56 pm

South Yorkshire Police statement.

http://southyorks.police.uk/news-syp/fo ... h-inquests" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:04 pm

HindleA wrote:South Yorkshire Police statement.

http://southyorks.police.uk/news-syp/fo ... h-inquests" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I see. So it wasn't SYP changing their story. Only some of the current and former police that repeated the original lies. Glad they've cleared that up.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:28 pm

Have been trying to watch a bit of Education Committee and Nicky Morgan. But find it very hard. She is so hard to watch. I can't concentrate on anything she says.So robot-like she could have her own TV programme. Have had to just change to audio only.

She just said that Academies teach over and beyond the National Curriculum and it was really good that schools were different (I paraphrase). How can you get a national education in England if everybody is teaching different things, asks Marion Fellows SNP. Quite.

That's as much as I can manage for now. Even doing housework is better.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Inde ... 6d71f4951a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:34 pm

Watch it if you do ironing,apparently irons melt.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:36 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 43s43 seconds ago
@YouGov finds growing support for the doctors in their dispute with the government

Oh dear - it's not meant to be going in that direction. Surely the public can't be sceptical of that nice, trustworthy Mr Hunt?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:37 pm

HindleA wrote:Watch it if you do ironing,apparently irons melt.

Descalers are evil HindleA. Kettles melt too.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:50 pm

Burnham was excellent - the applause was well-deserved.

Junior doctors - one of the picketing groups has raised £300 and made a collection of items for the Southwark food bank.

De-scalers - vinegar. It won't eat your kettle/iron. It just eats the limescale.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:51 pm

BBC to lose in-house programming guarantee under radical plan to open up public broadcaster to the private sector

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media ... 02656.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:53 pm

Never thought of using my kettle to iron.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Apr, 2016 3:57 pm

ephemerid wrote:Burnham was excellent - the applause was well-deserved.

Junior doctors - one of the picketing groups has raised £300 and made a collection of items for the Southwark food bank.

De-scalers - vinegar. It won't eat your kettle/iron. It just eats the limescale.

We are in a hard water area. I keep a bottle of white vinegar for descaling, but they had boxes of it in Aldi the other day and I foolishly bought some. Our shower head gets badly scaled and white vinegar doesn't quite do the job.

I also use a mix of white vinegar and water in a spray bottle for my windows. It's the only thing I've ever used that's quick, and doesn't leave any smears .... And it's cheap!