Saturday 30th April, Sunday 1st May 2016 & Monday 2nd May

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 6:58 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, I'm certainly not convinced about the Boris bit for starters......

Corbyn won't be there in 2020, I have always been pretty convinced of that.

His successor, I am almost equally convinced, will be somebody from the soft left who hasn't stood for the leadership before.

I reckon it's more likely to be May and Gove fighting it out for the Tory leadership.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:01 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:In my idle moments (there aren't many of them today) I've been wondering who might be the long serving MP in a 'safe seat' who is willing to retire early so the Blairite king can return and take up his rightful position ....

Editing to add: They must be very very sure of their constituents.

It sounds like they see David Miliband as the English messiah version of Plaid's Adam Price/Mab Darogan.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:03 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:In my idle moments (there aren't many of them today) I've been wondering who might be the long serving MP in a 'safe seat' who is willing to retire early so the Blairite king can return and take up his rightful position ....

Editing to add: They must be very very sure of their constituents.

Well Labour won't be getting my support or money if that happens...And I suspect there will be a great many who will do the same if Twitter is anything to go by even if you weed out the whackos....

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:04 pm

yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:In my idle moments (there aren't many of them today) I've been wondering who might be the long serving MP in a 'safe seat' who is willing to retire early so the Blairite king can return and take up his rightful position ....

Editing to add: They must be very very sure of their constituents.

It sounds like they see David Miliband as the English messiah version of Plaid's Adam Price/Mab Darogan.

It'll be more like the English kiss of death.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:29 pm

Homeless charity blocks money donated by the public to homeless hero
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/04/ ... less-hero/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Want charities to go back to being charities ... without the fatcat executives on fatcat pay - just reasonable pay should do. What the hell happened to people doing this kind of work because it is worth doing ...?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:31 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2h2 hours ago
Good piece ob the battle to be London mayor. Tory tatics very questionable.

'It's ugly and dangerous': the inside story of the battle to be London mayor
The contest between Zac Goldsmith and Sadiq Khan has been marred by accusations of racism. Has this become the dirtiest fight in British political history?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good evidenced analysis of the dog whistle tactics employed by Crosby and the Tories in various election campaigns.

As Mike Smithson is a Lib Dem, reminded of how they are missed as a significant presence. Under Major, they were always piling in and making it look like Major was some kind of lone nut when he wasn't. I have no doubt Tim Farron is appalled at the Goldsmith stuff, but even if he were going full tilt for it, barely anyone would notice.

The next time someone tells you the SNP are proper opposition, remember what we use to have in the 90s.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:37 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, I'm certainly not convinced about the Boris bit for starters......

Corbyn won't be there in 2020, I have always been pretty convinced of that.

His successor, I am almost equally convinced, will be somebody from the soft left who hasn't stood for the leadership before.

Agree about the new leader. To be fair to Corbyn, he can't come out and say he won't be leader for too long because it becomes a circus. I wonder if there's some way of getting across that expectation though.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:39 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Homeless charity blocks money donated by the public to homeless hero
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/04/ ... less-hero/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Want charities to go back to being charities ... without the fatcat executives on fatcat pay - just reasonable pay should do. What the hell happened to people doing this kind of work because it is worth doing ...?

“Giving large amounts of money directly to someone with support needs could have been harmful”.

About as harmful as giving food to hungry people

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:40 pm

I think I'd support MacDonnell. He's been impressive. Wouldn't support anyone else though.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:45 pm

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... e-11262985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Michael Mansfield: Hillsborough families were my rock after my beloved daughter took her life

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:48 pm

ohsocynical wrote:I think I'd support MacDonnell. He's been impressive. Wouldn't support anyone else though.

When there's another Labour leader election, the Labour MP receiving the greatest number of votes from Labour members/supporters
for Labour leader receives my support.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:49 pm

Hi peeps , still enjoying reading the site, even if i can't always chip in . Got a discharge date of 17 May so hopefully might get back to normality by then, keep the faith etc ...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:50 pm

Lovely to hear from you Toby. Get back here as soon as you can - we've missed you.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:52 pm

ohsocynical wrote:I think I'd support MacDonnell. He's been impressive. Wouldn't support anyone else though.

He has been good. Wish it had been his "turn" to stand really.

Worth noting that he's had to trim a fair bit from his old positions. Wasn't he supporting taking control of the Bank before? Credit to him for getting proper advisors in.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:52 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Hi peeps , still enjoying reading the site, even if i can't always chip in . Got a discharge date of 17 May so hopefully might get back to normality by then, keep the faith etc ...

Oh Brilliant Toby. Bound to be a good day. It was my dad's birthday.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:53 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Hi peeps , still enjoying reading the site, even if i can't always chip in . Got a discharge date of 17 May so hopefully might get back to normality by then, keep the faith etc ...

Good to hear from you Toby. Glad to hear you'll be going home soon.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:54 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:I think I'd support MacDonnell. He's been impressive. Wouldn't support anyone else though.
He has been good. Wish it had been his "turn" to stand really.

Worth noting that he's had to trim a fair bit from his old positions. Wasn't he supporting taking control of the Bank before? Credit to him for getting proper advisors in.

He's worked tirelessly out and about. Been a solid support for Corbyn...I know a lot of people were iffy about him at the beginning and criticised Corbyn for picking him, but I reckon he's earned our trust...

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:58 pm

I keep telling the nurses that i paid my n.i. stamp for 30 years so i am not going home until i get my moneys worth

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 7:58 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... e-11262985

Michael Mansfield: Hillsborough families were my rock after my beloved daughter took her life

People staying together, helping each other is powerful
Be slow to anger, get enough rest, eat properly, drink plenty of water daily, breathe,
exercise, sit quiet with yourself a little each day, stay together & help each other

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:03 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:I keep telling the nurses that i paid my n.i. stamp for 30 years so i am not going home until i get my moneys worth

You charmer, TobyLatimer!
Please accept my loving friendship & wishes for your good health

xx
cJA

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:06 pm

@TobyLatimer

Wotcha!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:06 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:I keep telling the nurses that i paid my n.i. stamp for 30 years so i am not going home until i get my moneys worth

Bet they'll be sorry to see you go...After a bit they become like family...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:08 pm

Most people aren't Tories
Tory governments aren't good for most people
Let's all concentrate on making Tory government history and voting into
leadership decent, representative government helping all people and country

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:13 pm

I think it's just beginning to dawn on people that Labour - if the election rigging report is right, probably would have won the GE ... In which case the polls were right. Lummee.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:17 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
ephemerid wrote:I think I might stop commenting on the Twattosphere for a bit.

I'm more than a tad irritated with people I like being utterly hideous about Corbyn - the man just can't do anything right for some folks, it seems.

How I wish we could just all get behind the leader, love him or hate him (or like me, be somewhere in-between), and fight the bloody Tories.

I'm sick of the squabbling. I left the party because I felt that any party that would not support its own leader didn't deserve my support. I was thinking of joining again; but when Labour people act as if Corbyn was the devil incarnate I'm better off out of it.
It is easy to forget (because it is a gradual erosion) just how much damage Corbyn's crowd have done to the Labour Party. It didn't have to be this way when he was elected, he could have ditched Stop The War, dumped Trident opposition (or at least toned it down) and worked on uniting the party around a centre left campaign for radical economic change.

Instead he has allowed Momentum to have their internal battles, split the party on defence and put idiots like Milne, Abbot, Livingstone (and the class war supporting Muppet who's name I forget) into key positions in the party. The result being an endless supply of ammunition to his enemies and repeated shooting of feet. Corbyn can probably be admired for loyalty but his friends have dragged him down.

The argument has always been he is part of a new mass movement that will defy convention and sweep him to power. This may be true, in which case he will record large gains in council seats in England (Miliband's result was ok, not stunning and should be improved on by a leader looking like they may return a party to power). However given the advantages of Tory disarray he has that Miliband didn't have if he does worse you have to conclude he probably isn't a viable election winner.

It seems highly likely that Boris will lead the Tory party in 2020, it is therefore essential for democracy in this country he is either stopped, or at least denied a big majority. It is not party loyalty to stick with a Labour leader who is not able to deliver that, it is damaging to the party and to the country.

If Corbyn doesn't look a likely winner (or close loser) he needs to be replaced, but it won't be by a Blairite and it won't be from the current leaders inner circle.

Whilst it's good to see you here, TE, I'm not in agreement with all this.

I am not convinced that he has damaged the party - if the issues you cite are so important, why has the rest of the PLP done nothing?
I think, personally, that a lot more damage is being done now by the so-called "bitterites".
Surely it's up to the PLP to get behind their leader - the leader the members voted for.

The vote was - Corbyn: 59%, of which 121,751 were members, 41,217 affiliates, and 88,449 registered supporters; his closest rival was Burnham: 19%, and that broke down to 55.698 members, 18,604 affiliates, and 6,160 registered supporters.
It was a landslide. That's what the members voted for.

Now, I appreciate that many people think that Corbyn is unelectable; but his constituency and the party membership say otherwise.
Because of all this internecine squabbling and a lack of support from many in the PLP, Corbyn hasn't had a fair crack at this, IMHO.
It seems to me that the same people who thought Milband was useless think the same of Corbyn. It's a real shame.

On Boris Johnson - whatever happens to Cameron, there is no way that Johnson could be PM. He has far too much baggage.

In other news.....

Michael Mansfield QC, who represented most of the families of the 96 at the recent inquest, has been talking about the families.
His daughter took her own life during the proceedings, and he has been talking to the Liverpool Echo about it.
He describes the families as his "rock" and has nothing but praise for them all.

I thought that was rather lovely. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:20 pm

HindleA - snap!

Toby - Hellloooo!!!!!!! Hugs and kisses!!!!

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:29 pm

To be honest, whilst it's always amusing to see John Mcternan delver his wisdom about winning elections - hmm how did scotland go? - what has sturck me the most over our latest squall, is how little the militants have got on corbyn.

Project undermine the leader really isnt going as well as the prince of darkness planned; some of his acolytes are cottoning on too.

Membership highest its been for decades, popularity of leader higher than Tories, latest polls Higher than tories. At the same time we have a government stumbling through disaster and disaster with two months still to go till the EU vote.

London is going to vote for Khan, Labour will be in coalition with someone in Wales - probably Plaid hopefully greens can nick one from them. Labour will come second in Scotland and with 33 - 30% in the uk locals hold their seats - although there wil be some churn.

All done in less than a year since becoming leader, and a year since Labour's most disastrous election result off the modern age.

The he's an anti semite terrorist supporter smear is all they seem to have and it doesnt seem to be working.

Obviously Im not a corbynite or even labour, but the militants seem to have lost their touch. They have taken doen a relatively unknown MP and Ken has committed political hari kiri. Can anyone here honestly say that they didnt expect Ken to do something like this at some point anyway?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 8:55 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/ ... the-answer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Housing in crisis: council homes were the answer in 1950. They still are
The only way to redress the shortfall in the number of UK homes is a huge programme of public building

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:05 pm

The Andrew Marr Show ‏@MarrShow 11m11 minutes ago
On #Marr in the morning, @NicolaSturgeon, @Nigel_Farage, @LeanneWood, @HackneyAbbott + more. 9am @BBCOne. Tune in!

One to avoid.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:06 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... ing-crisis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Revealed: UK ‘is in the throes of a housing crisis’
Observer survey finds 71% couldn’t buy without family help, and 37% say home ownership is out of reach for good

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:07 pm

Temulkar wrote:To be honest, whilst it's always amusing to see John Mcternan delver his wisdom about winning elections - hmm how did scotland go? - what has sturck me the most over our latest squall, is how little the militants have got on corbyn.

Project undermine the leader really isnt going as well as the prince of darkness planned; some of his acolytes are cottoning on too.

Membership highest its been for decades, popularity of leader higher than Tories, latest polls Higher than tories. At the same time we have a government stumbling through disaster and disaster with two months still to go till the EU vote.

London is going to vote for Khan, Labour will be in coalition with someone in Wales - probably Plaid hopefully greens can nick one from them. Labour will come second in Scotland and with 33 - 30% in the uk locals hold their seats - although there wil be some churn.

All done in less than a year since becoming leader, and a year since Labour's most disastrous election result off the modern age.

The he's an anti semite terrorist supporter smear is all they seem to have and it doesnt seem to be working.

Obviously Im not a corbynite or even labour, but the militants seem to have lost their touch. They have taken doen a relatively unknown MP and Ken has committed political hari kiri. Can anyone here honestly say that they didnt expect Ken to do something like this at some point anyway?

Agree with you about Ken. He's been a politician long enough to know what's going to inflame the media and public.
Diane Abbott's another one whose gob sometimes runs away with her.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:14 pm

: Look at those fingers.jpg (43.34 KiB) Viewed 5913 times

Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 9m9 minutes ago
David Cameron and Boris Johnson accused of turning Tories back to 'nasty party'
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... ed-7868701" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

They remind me of Pinky & Perky. Can't think why.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:28 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
The Andrew Marr Show ‏@MarrShow 11m11 minutes ago
On #Marr in the morning, @NicolaSturgeon, @Nigel_Farage, @LeanneWood, @HackneyAbbott + more. 9am @BBCOne. Tune in!
One to avoid.

Owen Jones is doing the papers section, so part of it might be worth watching.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:44 pm

Lucy Powell MP ‏@LucyMPowell 16m16 minutes ago
http://schoolsweek.co.uk/headteachers-c ... mies-plan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … incredible that headteachers feel this strongly

Headteachers consider industrial action over academies plan
http://schoolsweek.co.uk/headteachers-c ... mies-plan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lucy Powell has been doing really good work recently IMO. Seems to be really coming into her own.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:48 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 6m6 minutes ago
Opinium #EURef poll national splits
ENGLAND 41% to 43% to OUT
WALES 35% to 42% to OUT
SCOTLAND 51% to 34% IN
OVERALL 42% to 41% to IN

Interesting. Bears out my very limited experience in this area of Wales.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:52 pm

Northern Ireland looks like an In to me. Should be decent majority of the Nationalists for In. And though the DUP are popular for their "no shit on the border" stuff, don't think that all unionists are like them overall.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:54 pm

@Temulkar

I would love it if the Greens can take a seat off Plaid. Here's hoping. That might offset some of the horror of seeing Ukip in the Senedd.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:54 pm

Can't imagine Wales will be that bad. If anyone in the poorest parts of the South reckons the Tories would be spending "our own money" there, they are a bit naive. Labour can probably get some In votes out.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 9:59 pm

: Morgan Triumphs.jpg (70.71 KiB) Viewed 5873 times

Nicky Morgan showing she really knows how to win people over ....

'delegates had not been considering industrial action before Mrs Morgan's appearance, but rushed in the emergency vote after she spoke.'

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:01 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Can't imagine Wales will be that bad. If anyone in the poorest parts of the South reckons the Tories would be spending "our own money" there, they are a bit naive. Labour can probably get some In votes out.

Not so sure Tubby. Not so sure.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:01 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Lucy Powell MP ‏@LucyMPowell 16m16 minutes ago
http://schoolsweek.co.uk/headteachers-c ... mies-plan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … incredible that headteachers feel this strongly

Headteachers consider industrial action over academies plan
http://schoolsweek.co.uk/headteachers-c ... mies-plan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lucy Powell has been doing really good work recently IMO. Seems to be really coming into her own.

She's using social media responsibly and well at present.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:04 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 7m7 minutes ago
Opinum has EURef outcome for maximum chaos: England & Wales vote OUT but Scotland means it’s overall for IN http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... erall-for-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:07 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Hi peeps , still enjoying reading the site, even if i can't always chip in . Got a discharge date of 17 May so hopefully might get back to normality by then, keep the faith etc ...

On the mend? Excellent news!

Good to hear from you.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:15 pm

Worryingly, some who know about such things and have observed Livingstone's demeanour in the past few days fear he may have the early stages of Alzheimers.

Now that is a sad thought indeed

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:17 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04 ... -threaten/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 'concessions' being held out by Nicky Morgan to Tory rebels re forced academisation don't sound that beguiling .... a legal guarantee that no rural school will close. Extra funding to cover the costs of converting.

She doesn't seem to get that it's the principle of forcing schools - regardless of their performance and / or wishes of parents, teachers, community etc - that is fundamental to the opposition. Along with her having absolutely no convincing case re the benefits of course.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:20 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Worryingly, some who know about such things and have observed Livingstone's demeanour in the past few days fear he may have the early stages of Alzheimers.

Now that is a sad thought indeed

Yes that would be awful. Where on earth has that come from ...?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:23 pm

Sarah Champion MP ‏@SarahChampionMP 3m3 minutes ago
Weirdest thing as I drove home tonight, a mallard duck flew next to the car! The weird bit, I was doing 50mph! Who knew a duck could do 50??

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:26 pm

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... c-11265689" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

London cabbie's heartfelt note to LFC fan after Hillsborough justice delivered

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:29 pm

Police investigate claims Tory MP broke law by not declaring full value of election spending return
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/po ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Croydon Central MP Gavin Barwell claimed that his election office - provided to for free by local Conservative Party association - was worth just £1.84 a day...

Sheesh - 'market rates' or 'mates rates'?

I'm sure we'd all like to find such 'affordable' rents in our area. Hypocrites doesn't quite cut it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 30 Apr, 2016 10:30 pm

I am sad:-
http://www.speedofanimals.com/animals/mallard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;