Tuesday 3rd May 2016

Post by **refitman** » Tue 03 May, 2016 7:05 am

Morning all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 03 May, 2016 8:26 am

Euuw - Stephen Crabb is heavy breathing into his microphone as he insists Universal Credit is still wonderful and makes everyone better off ..... Someone needs to tell him to move away.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 03 May, 2016 8:29 am

Owen SmithVerified account
‏@OwenSmith_MP Owen Smith Retweeted The Independent
Don't know about you, but I'm shocked that introducing the profit motive into Probation services hasn't worked?!

Watchdog savages Government's 'disastrous' privatisation of probation services
The National Audit Office has warned the Government has no way of knowing how well companies responsible for running the country’s probation services are performing
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 10496.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 03 May, 2016 8:31 am

Jess Phillips MP ‏@jessphillips 4m4 minutes ago
Zac Goldsmith is making London unsafe with his campaign. He is a lumbering faltering racist.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 03 May, 2016 8:33 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Euuw - Stephen Crabb is heavy breathing into his microphone as he insists Universal Credit is still wonderful and makes everyone better off ..... Someone needs to tell him to move away.

Not one interruption from the interviewer. See they can do it if they try.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 03 May, 2016 8:39 am

"Not Even Leicester's Victory Is Enough To Make People Be Nice To David Cameron"

http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/828651191?-17295:2518

edited: being URL & mobile challenged.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 May, 2016 9:48 am

Gove tops our next party leader survey for the second month running

http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... nning.html

I knew it! I was saying it yonks ago. He'll have the Murdoch media behind him.
And his wife in Downing Street? That cow? Just thinking about it makes me want to lie down with a cold cloth on my head.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 03 May, 2016 9:57 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Gove tops our next party leader survey for the second month running

http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... nning.html
I knew it! I was saying it yonks ago. He'll have the Murdoch media behind him.
And his wife in Downing Street? That cow? Just thinking about it makes me want to lie down with a cold cloth on my head.

But I reckon he'll be hugely unpopular with / unappealing to the electorate Ohso. Small consolation maybe - but I can see him getting right up people's noses very quickly.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 May, 2016 9:59 am

Defiant Jeremy Corbyn issues direct message to Labour plotters: I’m doing the job and I won't be quitting

Speaking exclusively to the Mirror the Labour leader said: "I was elected with a very big mandate to do the job, and I am doing the job"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/de ... ar_twitter

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:00 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Gove tops our next party leader survey for the second month running

http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... nning.html
I knew it! I was saying it yonks ago. He'll have the Murdoch media behind him.
And his wife in Downing Street? That cow? Just thinking about it makes me want to lie down with a cold cloth on my head.

It would only be possible if the parliamentary party put him on the ballot. Does he have much support among MPs? I actually might welcome PM Gove. I think he'd be a complete disaster and thus easier to beat in a subsequent GE than Boris or May.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:07 am

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 1h1 hour ago

Votes of minor parties flock to Labour in London as disgust deepens against Tory racist and terrorist smears.. Zac finished.

Another knuckle biting time waiting for results.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:13 am

Universal credit has been reduced to a complicated benefit savings exercise driven by the Treasury, with 2.5 million families losing up to £3,000 a year each, ministers are warned today.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/famil ... a59fa2c6fd

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:29 am

Morning all.

I wonder what percentage are likely to be postal vote and how many will have submitted prior to the shouts of antisemitism.

Glad to see that Goldsmith is sticking to his script. His constituents must be so proud.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:30 am

Rowena Mason and Norman Smith amongst others reporting that Corbyn has said there'll be no overall loss Thursday. Thoughts?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:32 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: I knew it! I was saying it yonks ago. He'll have the Murdoch media behind him.
And his wife in Downing Street? That cow? Just thinking about it makes me want to lie down with a cold cloth on my head.
It would only be possible if the parliamentary party put him on the ballot. Does he have much support among MPs? I actually might welcome PM Gove. I think he'd be a complete disaster and thus easier to beat in a subsequent GE than Boris or May.
I think you're right. Gove as leader is a fantasy. There is a hardcore of toadspawn and party faithful who think they are in the majority because BTL at the Telegraph agrees with them. The Tories keep their membership on a short leash, and I doubt Gove would get enough MPs' support, although if he got onto the final ballot it might start to look different. Gove leading would be hilarious. It would be back to William Hague days. Johnson or May would be very tough to beat, though I think Osborne's goose may be cooked.

Those that denigrated Miliband for not appearing prime ministerial could see Gove in that roll. Hmm.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:39 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: I knew it! I was saying it yonks ago. He'll have the Murdoch media behind him.
And his wife in Downing Street? That cow? Just thinking about it makes me want to lie down with a cold cloth on my head.
It would only be possible if the parliamentary party put him on the ballot. Does he have much support among MPs? I actually might welcome PM Gove. I think he'd be a complete disaster and thus easier to beat in a subsequent GE than Boris or May.
I think you're right. Gove as leader is a fantasy. There is a hardcore of toadspawn and party faithful who think they are in the majority because BTL at the Telegraph agrees with them. The Tories keep their membership on a short leash, and I doubt Gove would get enough MPs' support, although if he got onto the final ballot it might start to look different. Gove leading would be hilarious. It would be back to William Hague days. Johnson or May would be very tough to beat, though I think Osborne's goose may be cooked.

Ruth Davidson 50:1 ?
http://news.ladbrokes.com/politics/coul ... er-10.html

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:59 am

One mother writes an open letter to the education secretary Nicky Morgan explaining why she is joining thousands of other parents to protest against primary testing

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... rents-open" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 03 May, 2016 10:59 am

Britain’s manufacturing sector has suffered its worst performance in three years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36190226" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 03 May, 2016 11:04 am

tinybgoat wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote: It would only be possible if the parliamentary party put him on the ballot. Does he have much support among MPs? I actually might welcome PM Gove. I think he'd be a complete disaster and thus easier to beat in a subsequent GE than Boris or May.
I think you're right. Gove as leader is a fantasy. There is a hardcore of toadspawn and party faithful who think they are in the majority because BTL at the Telegraph agrees with them. The Tories keep their membership on a short leash, and I doubt Gove would get enough MPs' support, although if he got onto the final ballot it might start to look different. Gove leading would be hilarious. It would be back to William Hague days. Johnson or May would be very tough to beat, though I think Osborne's goose may be cooked.
Ruth Davidson 50:1 ?
http://news.ladbrokes.com/politics/coul ... er-10.html

She would have to somehow become an MP first.

Anyway, let's see how the Scottish Tories do on Thursday.......

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 03 May, 2016 11:09 am

Luke James ‎@LEJ88
Corbyn responded to Qs about challenge after election by saying the media should stop "obsessing" over him and start obsessing over poverty

This quote from Corbyn about how the media should be less obsessed with him and more obsessed with poverty has made it onto the BBC as a sound bite. Whether deliberate or accidental, it gets the focus back on the issues pre-elections. I wonder what the Tories will come up this week to stop us thinking about who has the policies we most like and agree with, given that it's rarely them and they can only win by scaring us off the other guy, whoever that may be.

I wish someone in the media would quote exactly what Corbyn said about not losing any council seats as this morning I heard him repeatedly refuse to be drawn on any predictions, so was surprised to see it reported that he'd done just that.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 03 May, 2016 11:25 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... ing-london" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The government's housing policies are dividing London

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 03 May, 2016 11:32 am

Anyway, last night's "exclusive".

Margaret Hodge, eh? Not only is she actually older than Corbyn, she has a fair amount of "baggage".

If that is currently the best that the Bitterites can do......

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 03 May, 2016 11:33 am

Farage on the daily politics. Huzzah! It's been a while since he appeared on the BBC.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 May, 2016 11:56 am

Good morning, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:05 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Luke James ‎@LEJ88
Corbyn responded to Qs about challenge after election by saying the media should stop "obsessing" over him and start obsessing over poverty
This quote from Corbyn about how the media should be less obsessed with him and more obsessed with poverty has made it onto the BBC as a sound bite. Whether deliberate or accidental, it gets the focus back on the issues pre-elections. I wonder what the Tories will come up this week to stop us thinking about who has the policies we most like and agree with, given that it's rarely them and they can only win by scaring us off the other guy, whoever that may be.

I wish someone in the media would quote exactly what Corbyn said about not losing any council seats as this morning I heard him repeatedly refuse to be drawn on any predictions, so was surprised to see it reported that he'd done just that.

I vented my frustration over this phenomenon in my post(s) from the weekend. Is there any effective counter in response to misleading and/or partial reporting?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:11 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anyway, last night's "exclusive".

Margaret Hodge, eh? Not only is she actually older than Corbyn, she has a fair amount of "baggage".

If that is currently the best that the Bitterites can do......
This is as a stalking horse though - presumably if she did successfully trigger a challenge (though I don't actually think that's possible under Labour rules is it?) then the Blairite Mab Darogan (whoever it is this week) can sweep in and save us all.

Well, that was my thought too - surely even the most blinded by bitterness anti-Corbynite can't imagine that he wouldn't trounce Hodge? And then.......what??

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:11 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anyway, last night's "exclusive".

Margaret Hodge, eh? Not only is she actually older than Corbyn, she has a fair amount of "baggage".

If that is currently the best that the Bitterites can do......
This is as a stalking horse though - presumably if she did successfully trigger a challenge (though I don't actually think that's possible under Labour rules is it?) then the Blairite Mab Darogan (whoever it is this week) can sweep in and save us all.

However lets remember the "exclusive" was broken by one Tom Newton Dunn (of the Sun) who (and the organ he inhabits) has an unblemished record of political reporting hasn't he (they)!

Frankly if it is kosher (I hope that is not deemed to be anti Semitic) I would say bring it on. I hope the members will once again show their disdain for antics of those laughably called "moderates" by the "golden circle" of the media by returning Corbyn with a larger majority.

Then it will really become interesting.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:14 pm

ScarletGas wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anyway, last night's "exclusive".

Margaret Hodge, eh? Not only is she actually older than Corbyn, she has a fair amount of "baggage".

If that is currently the best that the Bitterites can do......
This is as a stalking horse though - presumably if she did successfully trigger a challenge (though I don't actually think that's possible under Labour rules is it?) then the Blairite Mab Darogan (whoever it is this week) can sweep in and save us all.
However lets remember the "exclusive" was broken by one Tom Newton Dunn (of the Sun) who (and the organ he inhabits) has an unblemished record of political reporting hasn't he (they)!

Frankly if it is kosher (I hope that is not deemed to be anti Semitic) I would say bring it on. I hope the members will once again show their disdain for antics of those laughably called "moderates" by the "golden circle" of the media by returning Corbyn with a larger majority.

Then it will really become interesting.

How come Mann, Woodcock, Streeting, Leslie, Dugher haven't put themselves forward?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:22 pm

http://labourlist.org/2016/05/corbyn-we ... any-seats/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jeremy Corbyn has issued a defiant message to his internal critics as he vowed Labour would defy predictions and not lose any seats on Thursday

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:25 pm

From its inception UC always had "winners and losers";ie.it was part of its design.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:38 pm

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 31s31 seconds ago
Air Ambulance has just landed on Parliament Square, paramedics rushing towards building.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:40 pm

Neil Oliver must be having to hire bodyguards after airing his views on the SNP.

Anyone know which party he leans towards ? Green ? Libs ? Labour hopefully.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:40 pm

HindleA wrote:Britain’s manufacturing sector has suffered its worst performance in three years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36190226" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently, and unsurprisingly, this is a "surprise".

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:41 pm

I don't know why everyone is so worried. A faction of the PLP are going to attempt a coup, the members are going to slap them down. Corbyn arrives at conference in September emboldened and strengthened. Not only that, the militants then have to face the membership themselves, and conference this year is going to be completely different to anything they have seen before with the new members. Its just the last gasp of the dying blairite corpse.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:44 pm

On top of that you know the polls could be wrong and labour gains seats.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:48 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
HindleA wrote:Britain’s manufacturing sector has suffered its worst performance in three years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36190226" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Apparently, and unsurprisingly, this is a "surprise".

You surprise me . . .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:48 pm

Good morfternoon.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:51 pm

Mike Smithson@MikeSmithsonPB 30m
Wonder why the Standard is not giving us the mayoral voting figures from their London poll ?

Answers on a postcard to ....Tory Propaganda Unit, Evening Standard.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:53 pm

Not just a surprise, 'a shock contraction' say the Guardian.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:59 pm

HindleA wrote:From its inception UC always had "winners and losers";ie.it was part of its design.

Indeed.

Obviously, there will always be perceived winners and losers when any far-reaching new policy is implemented; what is so very peculiar both about and to UC is that the alleged winners are, erm, losers.....their "extra" few pence an hour will not be much consolation when their claim is sanctioned for their failure to get better work or because they got the sack for looking for same.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Corbyn.....I voted for him to be leader, not because I thought he was any sort of saviour, but because he talked more sense than the other candidates; that vote was in the wake of Labour's abstention on a social security vote, dismal campaigning from Cooper and Burnham, idiocy from Kendall, and - for the first time in a very long time - a whiff of hope.

I wish Ed Miliband hadn't had to go; I still think he would have been excellent and would have brought Labour more to the left in time.
I understand why he resigned. I just wish he hadn't.

What really bothers me at the moment is this - seemingly sensible people, often people whose views I admire under normal circumstances, are so viciously anti-Corbyn. There's a lot of complaint about Momentum, accusations of a party within a party, that are not levelled at Progress which is essentially the same but on the opposite side of the left/right divide.
It's all very well saying that just because a majority of party members, affiliates, and supporters like Corbyn that is no indication of what the electorate as a whole thinks - the truth is that we just don't know. He has faced a very hostile media, not to mention a number of his PLP briefing against him at any given opportunity (plus a few manufactured ones), but he's still there, isn't he?

Thursday's polls are not a GE. What happens in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland is largely dependent on what goes on in those countries, IMHO; I am sure there will be quite a bit of tactical voting going on in some places. Our AM is Kirsty Williams - my heart is saying go with Labour, but my head is saying that not voting for KW could easily let in the Tory here. We have a Tory MP now.
The PCC elections are a sideshow - it was a 15% turnout last time; it'll only be higher this time because it's local elections too.

I've been reading a lot on the local council elections in England over the weekend. There are quite a few places, in Tory heartlands, where people want a change from Tory rule at local level. Whether that will translate into Labour seats remains to be seen.
Even if Labour loses seats, I still don't think that is a reason for Corbyn to go. He's barely been in post nine months. It took Ed a long time to get going - not least because of the nasty brother-backstabbing and Red Ed stuff that went on for months.

I suspect that not a lot will change in the devolved countries. I hope that the local elections in England favour Labour.
Meanwhile, I just wish that Labour members and MPs who have spent the past few months becoming increasingly shrill and stroppy would just belt up and understand that - for good or ill - Corbyn is who the membership wanted and support him to oppose the Tories.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 03 May, 2016 1:07 pm

Nats airing their vitriol about Oliver. These are the some of the politer ones.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 03 May, 2016 1:08 pm

It's all a bit scary, Nats are like right wing Americans. If you don't agree with them you are unpatriotic.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 03 May, 2016 1:22 pm

Interesting post from DonutHingeParty at 13.11

https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/3899805" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 May, 2016 1:24 pm

ScarletGas wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anyway, last night's "exclusive".

Margaret Hodge, eh? Not only is she actually older than Corbyn, she has a fair amount of "baggage".

If that is currently the best that the Bitterites can do......
This is as a stalking horse though - presumably if she did successfully trigger a challenge (though I don't actually think that's possible under Labour rules is it?) then the Blairite Mab Darogan (whoever it is this week) can sweep in and save us all.
However lets remember the "exclusive" was broken by one Tom Newton Dunn (of the Sun) who (and the organ he inhabits) has an unblemished record of political reporting hasn't he (they)!

Frankly if it is kosher (I hope that is not deemed to be anti Semitic) I would say bring it on. I hope the members will once again show their disdain for antics of those laughably called "moderates" by the "golden circle" of the media by returning Corbyn with a larger majority.

Then it will really become interesting.

I wonder what they think it will achieve. A big membership surge was because of Corbyn. Prior to the GE many had joined because of Ed, and find Corbyn an acceptable substitute.
They keep on about Labour members prior to that, but given some of them will have found Corbyn acceptable, where is their support supposed to be coming from?

If they think they can force their will on the party, it's going to be one big mistake.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 May, 2016 1:38 pm

Temulkar wrote:I don't know why everyone is so worried. A faction of the PLP are going to attempt a coup, the members are going to slap them down. Corbyn arrives at conference in September emboldened and strengthened. Not only that, the militants then have to face the membership themselves, and conference this year is going to be completely different to anything they have seen before with the new members. Its just the last gasp of the dying blairite corpse.

Oh I do hope you're right.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 03 May, 2016 1:56 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Temulkar wrote:I don't know why everyone is so worried. A faction of the PLP are going to attempt a coup, the members are going to slap them down. Corbyn arrives at conference in September emboldened and strengthened. Not only that, the militants then have to face the membership themselves, and conference this year is going to be completely different to anything they have seen before with the new members. Its just the last gasp of the dying blairite corpse.
Oh I do hope you're right.

Liverpool could get tasty!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 03 May, 2016 2:01 pm

The bitterites know that conference could well strengthen Jez's position, that's why they are desperate to "do something" before then.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 May, 2016 2:10 pm

Tory MP Lucy Allan claims ‘privileged’ junior doctors ‘hold the NHS to ransom’

Tory MP Lucy Allan was attacked on Facebook and Twitter due to controversial comments, but she decided to come back for more.

Allan claims that “privileged” junior doctors “hold the NHS to ransom”. Her comments have infuriated medics who say the strike is nothing to do with money, but the safety of patients and themselves.

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/t ... som/03/05/

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 03 May, 2016 2:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The bitterites know that conference could well strengthen Jez's position, that's why they are desperate to "do something" before then.

I agree, but whatever happens in the summer now, they are going to face a hostile membership. Some of them are going to get their commupance big time, I reckon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 03 May, 2016 2:18 pm

Prosecutors to appeal against arms fair protesters verdict

Crown Prosecution Service to try to overturn ruling in favour of group who said they blocked road to stop war crimes

A spokesperson for the CPS was not immediately available for comment. (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/may ... rs-verdict