Bank Holiday Edition - Saturday 28th - Monday 30th May 2016

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 May, 2016 4:30 pm

I think repeating well-worn anti-Semitic tropes that have been disproved a billion times ought to be an expulsion offence. Myth of the holocaust, blood libel, the Jews pull all the strings, that's way way beyond the pale. But an ignorant and wrong statement about Jews? That's surely different.

Andrew Old, of all people, said he'd never heard this trope. How he knew it was a trope then, as opposed to an ignorant statement, God only knows.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 28 May, 2016 4:31 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
HindleA wrote:"Steel-capped ?"
And studs !

You are Rosa Klebb and I claim my £5.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sat 28 May, 2016 4:54 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Wasted time interacting with Andrew Old.

I don't like him at all. Said people expelled from school were all "dangerous criminals" on the basis that lots go to prison later. And gave it really large v an anti-semitic phrase on Facebook (by Jackie Walker) while not being at all bothered by the PM and Tory candidate for Mayor of London being consistently anti-semitic.

I was expelled from school for drinking and smoking (at 18 years of age) and was - when last assessed - an outstanding teacher according to OFSTED. I can cite two barristers, an English professor, and one police sergant who were kicked out with me for the same offence.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 May, 2016 5:09 pm

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84 39m39 minutes ago
Owen Jones Retweeted HowTheLightGetsIn

If you're in Hay, I'm talking about the politics of hope tomorrow (Sunday)

That's Ephemerids neck of the woods, isn't it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 May, 2016 5:13 pm

Temulkar wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Wasted time interacting with Andrew Old.

I don't like him at all. Said people expelled from school were all "dangerous criminals" on the basis that lots go to prison later. And gave it really large v an anti-semitic phrase on Facebook (by Jackie Walker) while not being at all bothered by the PM and Tory candidate for Mayor of London being consistently anti-semitic.
I was expelled from school for drinking and smoking (at 18 years of age) and was - when last assessed - an outstanding teacher according to OFSTED. I can cite two barristers, an English professor, and one police sergant who were kicked out with me for the same offence.

My old pal Marklu off the DT said his school became academy. Suddenly being caught smoking twice led to expulsion!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 May, 2016 5:20 pm

The shame of the police who refuse to investigate Tory election expenses

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/05/2 ... -expenses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 May, 2016 5:23 pm

As Marklu says, there needs to be more consistent standards of what triggers and expulsion. When he was in post, it was a no-brainer for a school wanting to get rid of kids it didn't want. Hilariously though, Gove came in and (blindsided by a civil servant?) changed it so that the school would lose money for doing that.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 May, 2016 5:28 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB May 27

UKIP's overnight loss of a Staffs council seat adds to its by-election misery. It has retained just 2 of the 9 it has defended since GE2015

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 May, 2016 5:54 pm

“The expected arrival of the US activists has infuriated Labour candidates in the targeted seats, who pointed out the Republican party’s opposition to President Barack Obama’s healthcare reforms aimed at improving care for the poorest in society”. Moreover, “The Tories were … reluctant to answer questions about the deployment, ignoring two calls and two emails to ask whether it was appropriate for Young Republicans to be campaigning for them”. They were not even UK nationals.

So who paid? That was a sensitive point: “A document detailing the programme logistics of the trip, including the estimated $2,500 (£1,675) cost, appears to have disappeared or been removed from the group’s website since the Guardian made inquiries about the purpose of the trip and how many activists would be attending”.

But if they were canvassing in any constituency, and they had been transported in from outside, one might expect the candidate’s expense return to show something. Chris Philp’s return is now online, thanks to the Mirror’s “Peoples Electoral Commission”. So what does it say about transport costs? It doesn’t: Philp’s return has a big round zero for transport costs. Zip. Zilch. Nil. Nada. Not a sausage. Bugger all.

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2016/ ... t.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 May, 2016 6:02 pm

UPDATE 28 May 1410 hours: although the Guardian article which specifically names Chris Philp and the Croydon South constituency has been live for more than a year without amendment, he is adamant that his campaign received no assistance from outside the area.

Young Republicans group 'very much appreciated' as Tory campaigners
Seven US Republican activists electioneered in key London areas
Group provided ‘manpower’ to Conservative cause though canvassing

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... k-election

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 May, 2016 7:12 pm

Christ, I hate Andrew Giligan. Happened to come across this. Don't bother about the context,not that important.

The boy’s mother, Ifhat Smith, who took the story to the media, presented herself as a traumatised ordinary Londoner. She is in fact an activist in the Prevent Watch campaign and a key figure in the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, which believes in replacing secular democratic government with Islamic government.

This is how key she is in the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood. Per Gilligan.

It can also be revealed that Mrs Smith, also known as Ifhat Shaheen or Ifhat Shaheen-Smith, is - or was until at least September 2014 - in charge of the London office of Ennadha, a Tunisian Islamist party which grew out of and is allied to the Muslim Brotherhood.

So not the Muslim Brotherhood then. Sloppy? But still just the same?

Sounds a fair bit more complicated than that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ennahda_Movement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note how Gilligan talks about the Muslim Brotherhood instead of Ennahda.

I can't even see where they're allied with the Brotherhood. When did they grow out of it?

Oh, in 1981. You thought it might have been more recent, right?

What a nasty bit of work Gilligan is.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 May, 2016 7:29 pm

Some good news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36398147" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cambridge University will remain affiliated to the National Union of Students after a referendum of students rejected a motion to leave.

The evidence that Malia Bouttia is an anti-semite looks pretty weak to me. She's said Zionist when she's meant Zionist, as far as I can tell. Only occasion of controversy for me is observing that "Birmingham University has the largest Jewish Society". What her detractors don't tell you is that she followed it with a comma and "... whose leadership is dominated by Zionist activists". Sounds a bit different when you add that? And the point she's making is that the power of this group got her group up on trumped up charges before the university, which were dismissed. Not unreasonable to mention the size of the Jewish Society really, as a powerbase for these people against her? Can you imagine a problem with saying "very large Islamic society, whose leaders are hardlineres"?

I really don't like this McCarthyism at all.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 May, 2016 7:41 pm

It does. There's some suggestion they might be facing both ways on some issues, but not much stronger than that.

Gilligan knows he's on weak ground. That's why he makes it sound like they're the same as the Muslim Brotherhood and talks about them instead. A teacher would cross all that out, and ask for "more on this lot, please".

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 May, 2016 7:46 pm

Wouldn't it be nice if we were able to complain about crap like Gilligan and get corrections?

Alas, much more likely it'll be excused if there's some "link" and the clear intention to make you think the person supports the Muslim Brotherhood will be ignored. He worked out he could shit on Lutfur Rahman with this "linked" thing. Muslims, they're all in league together really. I call that a racist trope, but what do I know?

Post by **refitman** » Sat 28 May, 2016 7:52 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Wouldn't it be nice if we were able to complain about crap like Gilligan and get corrections?

Alas, much more likely it'll be excused if there's some "link" and the clear intention to make you think the person supports the Muslim Brotherhood will be ignored. He worked out he could shit on Lutfur Rahman with this "linked" thing. Muslims, they're all in league together really. I call that a racist trope, but what do I know?

You've got that wrong. It's only the left that are racist/anti-semitist/misogynist/sexist. The right are just "telling it like it is" and "not being PC".

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 May, 2016 8:19 pm

Jeremy Corbyn is having his own channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/jackreardonbond/featured" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 May, 2016 8:50 pm

MP David Mundell being investigated by police over expenses
Scotland's only Conservative MP allegedly breached election expenses rules

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... are_btn_tw

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 28 May, 2016 9:15 pm

Bracknell Forest Council councillors expenses claims up on 2014/15

http://www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/145 ... uncillors/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 May, 2016 9:23 pm

Liar Gilligan again. On Salma Yaqoob.

She earlier wrote a piece looking forward to the establishment of an “Islamic Republic of Great Britain” in which smoking, alcohol and the charging of interest were banned, crime dropped dramatically because of the imposition of Sharia punishments and Salman Rushdie was forced to leave the country.

Guess what? It was a satire, and incredibly obviously so.

Here it is.

Rule Islamia
The Islamic Republic of Great Britain
by Salma Yaqub

"Today, King Charles abdicated from the throne and left the country to retreat into the Himalayan mountains to live as a Buddhist monk following pressure from the public for Britain to become an Islamic state. His son William bin Charlie, having been involved in the Young Muslims for some time, is determined to give the people what they want - and is now known as the Ameer." The news, announced by a scarf-clad Zainab Badawi, was received with takbirs resounding in living rooms across the nation.

Headlines included 'A political and moral victory for Britain' by Al-Asr (formerly The Times), and 'Gotcha Britain!' by Al-Shams (formerly The Sun, which is still somewhat lagging behind!). So how did this extraordinary turn of events come about? Judge Pickles (Achaar for short) expressed his outrage by declaring: "It's the woman's fault, she was asking for it." And indeed this appeared to be the case. Two million women marched to Parliament last week demanding their rights for an equitable status in accordance with Shariah (Islamic Law).

The women's actions have added to calls from other directions for the implementation of the Shariah. One campaigner protesting against the usury system - who had been made homeless following failure to keep up with mortgage repayments - explained: "The interest rates kept going up. The interest I was getting from my savings account just became meaningless to me — especially when I didn't have any money left in there! I was amazed when I was told about the Islamic economic system - it's so fair to everyone. I would never go back to the old way again now." "Not even if we promised you double the interest rate in your savings account?" "Never" was the firm reply.

It was not just the (capitalist) Conservatives who were alarmed by the surge in public pressure for change — (lefty) Labour MP's have been equally worried. The attraction of a basic tax of just 2.5% has proved to be irresistible and unable to be matched by any political party, least of all the Labour Party.

The Minister for Culture (Maqsood Al-Rashid) allayed fears that Big Ben would be replaced by a minaret, and that all non—Muslims would be forced to convert at the point of a sword. He said: "Most British institutions are not contradictory to Islam, and will in fact continue with their functions, merely enhancing and serving the new British Islamic Civilisation. As to the question of non-Muslims; the Qur'an itself states that there is no compulsion in religion, and who are we to argue with the Qur'an?".

In addition the Minister for Health has verified rumours that doctors on the NHS will have more time to be sympathetic to their patients, following a ban on alcohol and a reduction in smoking: the two major causes of illness in Britain. Also, initial fears of an increase in one-handed people, due to the implementation of Hadood (punishment), have not been realised — and at the same time crime figures have been dropping dramatically.

Indeed the energy and passion of the youth now have a new focus. Mosques across the land are bracing themselves for Friday Night Fever, where issues of faith are hotly debated and nights are spent in Qiyyam-ul-Layl.

It seems the whole country is alive with hope and expectation. People the world over are looking to the Islamic Republic of Great Britain, and Immigrations is inundated with applications for entry visas. The promise of material gain has now been superseded by the promise for spiritual gain.

However, one lone man was spotted walking hurriedly towards Departures in Heathrow Airport. His face was not recognisable as he was wearing dark glasses and had a beard. But on closer scrutiny he appeared to be clutching a book to his chest and the words "Satanic Verses" were just visible'

What a complete and utter shitbag Gilligan is.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 May, 2016 9:27 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... udi-arabia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK weapons sales to oppressive regimes top £3bn a year
Big increase since 2014 in quantity of missiles and bombs sold to countries on Foreign Office’s list of human rights violators

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 May, 2016 10:13 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36404862" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rise in junior doctor applications to Scotland

The number of junior doctors applying for posts in Scotland has increased by 27% in the past year.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 May, 2016 10:15 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... udi-arabia

UK weapons sales to oppressive regimes top £3bn a year
Big increase since 2014 in quantity of missiles and bombs sold to countries on Foreign Office’s list of human rights violators

I have a problem with the UK weapons industry.
I have a problem with any nations' weapons industry.
Weapons are used to kill people.
Isn't war and killing people one of the ways refugees are created?
Current UK government haven't thought this through, have they?
Or have they.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 May, 2016 10:16 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36404862

Rise in junior doctor applications to Scotland

The number of junior doctors applying for posts in Scotland has increased by 27% in the past year.

I'm unsurprised.

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Sat 28 May, 2016 10:41 pm

Apologies if this has already been posted but It's a quite decent article.

http://www.conservativehome.com/platfor ... f%20Corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 28 May, 2016 10:56 pm

Jamie Reed ‏@jreedmp 2m2 minutes ago
Jamie Reed Retweeted Christina
Liar. You're a liar.

Christina
‏@55krissi55
@jreedmp Corbyn's policies will help the poor, you should be using Media to promote them
Scotland was lost B4 Corbyn was Leader

I don't think an MP should be tweeting stuff like that. I can't see what this woman tweeted that merits a response like that. And even if she had tweeted something reprehensible ... it's still not an appropriate way to respond.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sat 28 May, 2016 11:01 pm

Wes Streeting can just fuck off. I'm pissed off with this bollocks. Twat.

Jeremy Corbyn ‘failed to reply’ to Israeli Labour on fears of antisemitism

http://gu.com/p/4jp47" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 28 May, 2016 11:37 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 29 May, 2016 12:17 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Liar Gilligan again. On Salma Yaqoob.

She earlier wrote a piece looking forward to the establishment of an “Islamic Republic of Great Britain” in which smoking, alcohol and the charging of interest were banned, crime dropped dramatically because of the imposition of Sharia punishments and Salman Rushdie was forced to leave the country.
Guess what? It was a satire, and incredibly obviously so.

Here it is.

Rule Islamia
The Islamic Republic of Great Britain
by Salma Yaqub

Etc

What a complete and utter shitbag Gilligan is.
It's as though he learned literally nothing from the David Kelly episode.

Unless it's only to smear and misrepresent people who he doesn't mind damaging. He is a dreadful, dreadful 'journalist'.

I think I said before that Rail Magazine got stuck into him.

"Secret report shows HS2 in danger of coming off the tracks"- turned out to be based on published report from 2012 which mentioned potential problem with surface soil in one area not being solid and dangers of that.

HS2 isn't going on the surface there. It's going through a tunnel.

He must know he's lying.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 29 May, 2016 12:26 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Jamie Reed ‏@jreedmp 2m2 minutes ago
Jamie Reed Retweeted Christina
Liar. You're a liar.

Christina
‏@55krissi55
@jreedmp Corbyn's policies will help the poor, you should be using Media to promote them
Scotland was lost B4 Corbyn was Leader
I don't think an MP should be tweeting stuff like that. I can't see what this woman tweeted that merits a response like that. And even if she had tweeted something reprehensible ... it's still not an appropriate way to respond.

Been talking to her. She isn't very bright. Said Livingstone "told the truth", "historians said so".

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 29 May, 2016 5:27 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36407596" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Doctor urges compulsory mediation in patient care rows

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 29 May, 2016 5:30 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-36405965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scottish Conservative push to fast-track schools reform

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Sun 29 May, 2016 8:33 am

A senior Conservative MP has broken ranks for the first time to declare that David Cameron is “finished” as Tory leader and will have to be replaced after the European Union referendum.

In a dramatic intervention, Andrew Bridgen said Mr Cameron had “infuriated” his own MPs and grassroots members with his “Project Fear” campaign to keep Britain in the EU and would face a leadership challenge, which could come as soon as next month.

..... Mr Bridgen suggested that the new Tory leader would want to call a general election in the autumn in order to win a fresh mandate

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... s-party-l/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 29 May, 2016 9:25 am

Tom McTague ‏@TomMcTague 5m5 minutes ago
Yanis Varoufakis wonderfully frank on the Marr couch this morning

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 7m7 minutes ago
Yanis adds: “Having Tony Blair on your side, on any campaign, is a glass of poison."

Just a shame Blair doesn't seem to realise that. Or, if he does slightly concede that is the case, puts it down to people resenting him for winning elections rather than anything negative he might have done like going to war.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 29 May, 2016 9:31 am

Just heard a Radio 4 clip of Roy Jenkin and Tony Benn debating whether or not to stay in the EU from our previous vote so many years ago. What a difference - they are actually discussing the issues without gross exaggeration, distortion, monster predictions and willy waving. Dimbleby says what a disciplined, polite and learned discussion it was ... and how he didn't intervene. The one time he did he was told by Tony Benn that he had just lowered the tone! Apparently it was a different politics then - a politics in which Harold Wilson felt it was OK to let Labour cabinet ministers who disagreed on the EU to publicly debate each other. Dimbleby says Cameron won't even debate with anyone else - manages his performances so tightly he's basically unchallenged.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 29 May, 2016 9:42 am

It was interesting to hear Jenkins and Benn, wasn't it ?

What do we get today ? Boris Johnson accusing Cameron using words like 'deeply corrosive', very hypocritical when the right wing Tory Leave campaign behaves the way it does.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 29 May, 2016 9:53 am

This meme that "Blair's critics resent him for winning elections" is so breathtakingly dishonest and fantastical it is difficult to know where to start.

And as long as his (ever dwindling) remaining devotees persist in clinging on to such delusional nostrums, they will continue to wail in the wilderness.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 29 May, 2016 9:56 am

Our Greek dog should have set off on her long journey to us this morning. Fingers crossed. We got a horridly stressful phone message yesterday evening saying the courier company hadn't received payment so they 'technically' shouldn't be transporting her and trying to change the arrangements. Nasty two hours spent forwarding emails to show payment was made weeks ago - and allaying each other's fears. Haven't heard a dicky bird since so we are hoping it's OK and she's on her way.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 29 May, 2016 10:14 am

: Back and Front Stabbing tactics.jpg (54.27 KiB) Viewed 6538 times

Can we expect the BBC to pick up on this and question every Tory they interview about it for the next week? Or invite Fallon in to give one of his thunderous explanations of how dangerous people willing to stab other people in their party are .... especially if they are related?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 29 May, 2016 10:27 am

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... r-11399283" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Blind mum 'falsely imprisoned' after claims she grabbed PC's testicles and twisted them

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 29 May, 2016 10:38 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:This meme that "Blair's critics resent him for winning elections" is so breathtakingly dishonest and fantastical it is difficult to know where to start.

And as long as his (ever dwindling) remaining devotees persist in clinging on to such delusional nostrums, they will continue to wail in the wilderness.
Won't take long to take hold though, will it?

I don't know why Blair's acolytes continue to hold such sway with the media.

Nah, most people see it for the self serving nonsense that it is

And they "hold sway with the media" because they are grossly over-represented *within* it.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 29 May, 2016 11:24 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Back and Front Stabbing tactics.jpg
Can we expect the BBC to pick up on this and question every Tory they interview about it for the next week? Or invite Fallon in to give one of his thunderous explanations of how dangerous people willing to stab other people in their party are .... especially if they are related?

I think that we should be ready for a General Election this year. I know that the primary Tory instinct is power, and that they'll paper over any cracks to secure and retain it, but the EU isn't a crack, it's an abyss. The Referendum has exposed something akin to Civil War, not just in the Tory Party, but in the country as a whole. And it's a division that isn't going to go away, not even for the duration of an Election campaign.

I think that what's been triggered is a polarisation of this country. Like the divide between Red and Blue in America has turned it into two, roughly equally balanced countries, I think that's what we've finally got here. The Tories in their current form can't survive. This Government is done for. Only it won't be the pleasure we all hoped it would be...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 29 May, 2016 11:28 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: Won't take long to take hold though, will it?

I don't know why Blair's acolytes continue to hold such sway with the media.
Nah, most people see it for the self serving nonsense that it is

And they "hold sway with the media" because they are grossly over-represented *within* it.
The right already loves to shove down our throat that Blair is the only Labour leader to win elections in the last 40 years etc etc. Which implies that it is only the leader and nothing else that's responsible for 'winning'. When you see who's sticking up for Blair, that tells you something about how much of a benefit he's been for the labour movement. And most of these people hated him when he was in power.

Only four people have won GEs for Labour *ever* - its a fundamentally meaningless statistic in that sense.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 29 May, 2016 11:32 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just heard a Radio 4 clip of Roy Jenkin and Tony Benn debating whether or not to stay in the EU from our previous vote so many years ago. What a difference - they are actually discussing the issues without gross exaggeration, distortion, monster predictions and willy waving. Dimbleby says what a disciplined, polite and learned discussion it was ... and how he didn't intervene. The one time he did he was told by Tony Benn that he had just lowered the tone! Apparently it was a different politics then - a politics in which Harold Wilson felt it was OK to let Labour cabinet ministers who disagreed on the EU to publicly debate each other. Dimbleby says Cameron won't even debate with anyone else - manages his performances so tightly he's basically unchallenged.

Those were the days when politicians knew their subject. Debates were plentiful, on the whole calm, and you actually learned something by watching.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 29 May, 2016 11:43 am

JustMom wrote:Apologies if this has already been posted but It's a quite decent article.

http://www.conservativehome.com/platfor ... f%20Corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A few of what I call 'old school Conservatives' are beginning to show their heads above the parapet. Finally !

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 29 May, 2016 11:54 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:This meme that "Blair's critics resent him for winning elections" is so breathtakingly dishonest and fantastical it is difficult to know where to start.

And as long as his (ever dwindling) remaining devotees persist in clinging on to such delusional nostrums, they will continue to wail in the wilderness.
Won't take long to take hold though, will it?

I don't know why Blair's acolytes continue to hold such sway with the media.

Purely and simply because they're 'anti-Corbyn'.
And Blair has such a huge ego, he fails to see it's not all about him.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 29 May, 2016 12:10 pm

Hi all

Just watched Blair on Marr....my soul, what a diminished force he is. He used to be a very convincing and charismatic leader - a much more effective performer than the current PM

It is fine to commend the good things he did (and there were many lest we forget), and also to criticise those major strategic errors he made but he is history and, as Varoufakis said this morning - it would be better for him and the Labour movement if he faded into the background

He got hubristic, believed his own press and then lost his credibility...his own fault and it is sad because he could have done much more but he has to accept it

Oh, and by the way, he clearly prefers Cameron to the elected leader of his own party...any man who can support Cameron, a foul right wing scumbag (not all right wingers are foul....Cameron is though) then has nothing more to say to me and many others

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 29 May, 2016 12:20 pm

The point is, even when he says sensible things - as he did at least some of the time this morning - nobody outside his increasingly cultish band of acolytes will listen.

He has become almost unbelievably toxic.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 29 May, 2016 12:25 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The point is, even when he says sensible things - as he did at least some of the time this morning - nobody outside his increasingly cultish band of acolytes will listen.

He has become almost unbelievably toxic.

He was, and probably still is, a formidable political operator...and he is not stupid either....as Varafoukis said at the end...it is not the point that matter now (even when right) it is him!

He took a political gamble with Iraq and eventually it consumed him....the post 2003 Blair was very different than the pre-2003.

His intervention in the debate will not help the cause of those trying to get the left to support remain.....

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 29 May, 2016 12:34 pm

Oh and it is going to be interesting when Chilcott is out

I am sure Corbyn is going to go for Blair quite strongly to show Labour has moved on completely....this will not go down well with the Blairites but will the put their heads above the parapet on this issue?

Rentool will clearly carry on as before as will Aaronovitch and Cohen in the media but they can be safely ignored....it is what will the response of the PPC Blairites be if he (and Straw) are slated and Corbyn puts the boot in on the back of it?

We have the selection battles for the reduction in MPs and boundary changes coming up (a useless Tory scum policy) and I think anyone supporting Blair against Chilcott would struggle to find much support

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 29 May, 2016 2:40 pm

Doggie has been safely collected and is on her way. Mistake re payment has been acknowledged. And doggie is reportedly very sweet. (Calling her doggie because we may well change her name - can't deal with too many dogs with similar sounding names that end in A - gotta find something short and sweet for her.) So far so good.