Thursday 2nd June 2016

Post by **refitman** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 7:10 am

Morning all.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 7:34 am

Morning.

Left Foot Forward say that Labour Leave's claim to be funded by ''Labour, Trades Unions and Socialist Society members'' is being economical with the truth.

Labour Leave's top two funders are Tory party donors, its third biggest funds donor is official Brexit campaign Vote Leave which is led by Boris Johnson.

http://leftfootforward.org/2016/06/labo ... de-unions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 8:01 am

RSPB & World Wildlife Fund support remain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 60231.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 8:38 am

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -new-homes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government cuts funding for making brownfield sites suitable for new homes
Drastic cuts to hit remediation work – the process of detoxifying soil, with plans to phase it out by 2017, MPs on environmental audit committee find

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 8:40 am

Alistair Darling says if this were a general election no party would be able to get away with vague spending plans and lack of detail ..... Where was he in April / May 2015? That's exactly what happened and the British public went for it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 8:45 am

Morning.

Very very groggy. The plan was for our new dog to arrive this afternoon. She actually arrived at 2am. We were suddenly told on Wednesday evening that she was in the van coming towards us and we'd have to go and get her in Newcastle Emlyn later on. Many phone calls later - and a long sit in Newcastle Emlyn with a phone that was out of signal ... we finally met her. Having been told she was quite a docile dog she seems far from that ... very frisky in her new surroundings. We think she might be another candidate for training with our lovely local Miss Wiplash dog & owner trainer. I've got to go to work in a bit and feel very far from fit to do so.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 8:58 am

Seumas Milne's claim that JC's PMQs questions are sometimes being leaked is very troubling. Only a few people are present at the PMQs preparation meetings, including two people from Labour HQ.

It may be that Milne is a bit paranoid and the Tories are just second guessing what comes up. But he may have a point that it seems more than coincidence that they 'guess' right. Apparently Milne's comments have upset people at Labour HQ who feel the finger of suspicion is pointing at them.

When Ed was leader his office was broken into twice but nothing appeared to have been taken. However, Corbyn doesn't use that office. But can they be sure that Corbyn's office isn't bugged?

More worryingly, if someone is leaking information is it someone in the inner circle?

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 9:06 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning.

Very very groggy. The plan was for our new dog to arrive this afternoon. She actually arrived at 2am. We were suddenly told on Wednesday evening that she was in the van coming towards us and we'd have to go and get her in Newcastle Emlyn later on. Many phone calls later - and a long sit in Newcastle Emlyn with a phone that was out of signal ... we finally met her. Having been told she was quite a docile dog she seems far from that ... very frisky in her new surroundings. We think she might be another candidate for training with our lovely local Miss Wiplash dog & owner trainer. I've got to go to work in a bit and feel very far from fit to do so.

That sounds horrendous Rebecca, but at least she arrived safely. I suppose if she seems frisky now it's because she's been cooped up and feeling frightened, lost and confused - and then she realises she's got lovely people to look after her and her emotions have gone into overdrive. So she might calm down in her own time. Good luck

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 9:09 am

Morning all.

I see that IDS and Gove are again accusing Cameron of not doing enough about immigration and the strain it puts on public services.

When is anyone going to point out that they were in the cabinet for five years while this might have been happening?

I guess the Tory Remain camp can't counter with "no it wasn't...it was cuts to funding....er...oh"...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 9:17 am

The civil service takeover of the English education system rolls relentlessly onwards...

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/three-more-dep ... issioners/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So my region is led by an ex director of Essex and a deputy director of Northamptonshire - both now DfE civil servants.

Forget academies, this is the real scandal - why on earth have the Tories made this happen given their known dislike of the civil service and attacks on it in the past?

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 9:31 am

I'm not saying the mole is JC's aide Gavin Sibthorpe, but this is an odd thing for him to say, even in a hypothetical sense: 'If they want to get rid of him best thing would be to wait and let Jeremy fail on his own.'

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 9:58 am

Political Scrapbook on the BBC's very brief and perfunctory acknowledgement that the Tories have a very serious problem - and the bit they missed out.

The BBC is sometimes wrongly accused of ignoring the growing election expenses scandal, but that doesn’t mean its reporting is faultless.

Last night the story went nuclear. A judge ruled that the allegations regarding over-spending on election expenses were “on an unprecedented scale”.

The judge added that specific elections of MPs may be voided if the allegations were found to have a basis (more on this later).

A key battleground where the Tories are accused of illegally going over election spending limits is the constituency of South Thanet.

A BBC’s report posted last night started with:

A further 12 months have been granted to Kent Police to investigate claims of improper election spending by the Conservative Party.

But the story completely ignored a key point: that the Tories tried to block the police probe and failed to do so.

Even Sky News focused on that angle.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/b ... more-58535" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 10:00 am

Labour general election defeat not linked to a shift to the left, report claims
'We find no evidence that Labour lost support because they moved to the left'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 60151.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... The report by the University of Oxford adds that while immigration, welfare, and Ed Miliband’s leadership all played a part in the unexpected defeat, it was more about perceived competence and rhetoric than policy. It also claims that the party's anti-austerity message led to some gains in England.

The authors add that Labour’s “equivocal support” of benefit caps did not necessarily help the party win any more supporters at the election. “Perceptions of welfare matter,” they said. “But it is not the precise amount that is important. Rather people care about whether the amount given to people is enough to live on."

Professor David Stuckler, of Oxford University’s Department of Sociology, told The Independent: “We analysed the election results using the British Election Survey data that can tell us what happened to Labour voters over time and, unlike focus groups, cover the entire country. What also sets apart our approach is that we can use these data to look at those who switch parties; the key swing voters...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 10:52 am

nickyinnorfolk wrote:I'm not saying the mole is JC's aide Gavin Sibthorpe, but this is an odd thing for him to say, even in a hypothetical sense: 'If they want to get rid of him best thing would be to wait and let Jeremy fail on his own.'

Its true though, and always has been. Jez is truly blessed by his internal enemies.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 11:46 am

The Daily Mash on our wonderful and totally unbiased media:

Paranoid terrorist-loving dickhead lunatic imagines media is against him

DANGEROUSLY unhinged Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has paranoid fantasies that the media is against him, a documentary about the knobhead will show.

The terrorist-loving traitor, who has faced allegations he is the son of Mao Tse-tung, has lashed out at unimpeachably accurate coverage of his disastrous eight months in charge.

The documentary, only shown on the internet because of the ratings plunge which follows any Corbyn TV appearance, follows the Islington North MP through eight weeks of unbelievable fuck-ups.

ITN news editor Helen Archer said: “We’ve gone out of our way to be balanced in our coverage of Corbyn, blaming him for almost no murders, but he acts as if we hate him.

“And now he’s accusing the BBC of bias, an outrageous attack on a much-loved institution no other media outlet or government minister would ever dare criticise.

“We’ve contacted a Labour heavyweight for their view. I expect Liz Kendall will really give us the other side of the debate.”

Jeremy Corbyn was reached for comment, but his reply is not published because nobody wants to hear his sickening lies.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/ ... 0602109232" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:01 pm

Audience members booed and hissed at Laura Kuenssberg, the broadcaster's political editor, as she was called to ask a question after the Labour leader spoke about the EU.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... cult-after" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:02 pm

Toby if you're browsing. How are you doing? Are you sorted yet?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:03 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Labour general election defeat not linked to a shift to the left, report claims
'We find no evidence that Labour lost support because they moved to the left'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 60151.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... The report by the University of Oxford adds that while immigration, welfare, and Ed Miliband’s leadership all played a part in the unexpected defeat, it was more about perceived competence and rhetoric than policy. It also claims that the party's anti-austerity message led to some gains in England.

The authors add that Labour’s “equivocal support” of benefit caps did not necessarily help the party win any more supporters at the election. “Perceptions of welfare matter,” they said. “But it is not the precise amount that is important. Rather people care about whether the amount given to people is enough to live on."

Professor David Stuckler, of Oxford University’s Department of Sociology, told The Independent: “We analysed the election results using the British Election Survey data that can tell us what happened to Labour voters over time and, unlike focus groups, cover the entire country. What also sets apart our approach is that we can use these data to look at those who switch parties; the key swing voters...

As some of us realised almost straight after the result......

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:23 pm

deleted as I hadn't read the post I was responding to fully, and duplicated a point.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:37 pm

Peter Jukes has tweeted :

'Odd that media seem more interested in a reporter getting booed than in an election expenses scandal that's spread to dozens of constituencies'

He also says the amount of undeclared dosh the Tories spent is 'up to £4 million'.
That's not just a little spare change unaccounted for, that's buying an election.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:40 pm

You mean, the media are more interested in "process" (non)stories about themselves than actual real news?

As they say, hold the front page!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:41 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.
Welcome FlyTheNest guests, all fifty-five of you.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:47 pm

From a comment below the line elsewhere:

"We didn't cover your story, why didn't you say anything?
Did you get my dinner ready? I said I HATE left wing chips *flings plate at wall*"

https://discussion.theguardian.com/comm ... k/75442965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:51 pm

These are the issues that matter, Beryl!

Sainsbury's scraps prosecco offer after rush on discount fizz
Shoppers combining three deals got Taste the Difference prosecco at £2.63 a bottle but grocer ended offer after stocks ran low

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... count-fizz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

201 comments at this time

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:53 pm

Welcome, sixty-one guests. We're currently out of prosecco. May I offer you tea? Toast with a nice apricot jam?

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:54 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Audience members booed and hissed at Laura Kuenssberg, the broadcaster's political editor, as she was called to ask a question after the Labour leader spoke about the EU.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... cult-after" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A thoroughly deserved booing, considering Kuenssberg's ill concealed hostility to Labour generally and Corbyn in particular. The BBC still clings to the fallacy that everything LK pronounces on is totally fair and without bias. Perhaps they can ponder why the relationship between their chief political correspondent and a major political party has reached such a nadir. But of course they won't, it'll all be about Corbyn not telling everyone off for their vocal disapproval.

The PoliticsHome article is pretty ropey - quoting how outraged Wes Streeting is about it and repeating the untrue allegation that criticism of LK was all about sexism. IT WASN'T!

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:55 pm

yahyah wrote:Peter Jukes has tweeted :

'Odd that media seem more interested in a reporter getting booed than in an election expenses scandal that's spread to dozens of constituencies'

He also says the amount of undeclared dosh the Tories spent is 'up to £4 million'.
That's not just a little spare change unaccounted for, that's buying an election.

Hooray for Peter Jukes.

Absolutely spot on.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 12:55 pm

'We find no evidence that Labour lost...'

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 1:16 pm

The latest EU referendum poll from YouGov shows a tie, unchanged from their previous survey.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 1:27 pm

BBC website currently showing Corbyn with the line "Jeremy Corbyn attacks EU campaign 'hype'" which should play well with people disillusioned with the distortions being played out by both sides right now.

Difficult for the whiners to say that they don't know where Labour stand on this now.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 1:31 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:The civil service takeover of the English education system rolls relentlessly onwards...

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/three-more-dep ... issioners/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So my region is led by an ex director of Essex and a deputy director of Northamptonshire - both now DfE civil servants.

Forget academies, this is the real scandal - why on earth have the Tories made this happen given their known dislike of the civil service and attacks on it in the past?

Because they get to choose them, and can use patronage to promote their policy. And they can outsource to Policy Exhange later.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 1:33 pm

Looks good by Corbyn.

Only so many things he can say in a speech but would maybe like bit more on sovereignty. You don't just leave and do what you want.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 1:38 pm

Conditional discharge for Patrick Rock. Might sound cushy but he is now a registered sex offender.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 1:40 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:The civil service takeover of the English education system rolls relentlessly onwards...

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/three-more-dep ... issioners/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So my region is led by an ex director of Essex and a deputy director of Northamptonshire - both now DfE civil servants.

Forget academies, this is the real scandal - why on earth have the Tories made this happen given their known dislike of the civil service and attacks on it in the past?
Because they get to choose them, and can use patronage to promote their policy. And they can outsource to Policy Exhange later.

I'm not so sure - I suspect that the new Perm Sec has come in and said to the politicians that this is a right mess, let me sort it out which is why none of these jobs seem to have been advertised. They needed this sorted out about 3-4 years ago.

just wait until funding for individual schools gets going and then we'll see a regional expansion of the funding agency.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 1:46 pm

It's a shame so many on the left wasted their time with their "Britain as socialist island" nonsense. Corbyn didn't go too far down that road to be fair to him, though he wanted a referendum in 2008. The antics of Benn etc though hurt him now, and it's a shame.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 1:54 pm

yahyah wrote:Peter Jukes has tweeted :

'Odd that media seem more interested in a reporter getting booed than in an election expenses scandal that's spread to dozens of constituencies'

He also says the amount of undeclared dosh the Tories spent is 'up to £4 million'.
That's not just a little spare change unaccounted for, that's buying an election.

Whadabbbbouuuuu Lutfur Rahman?

Falkirk!!!!!

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 2:03 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:BBC website currently showing Corbyn with the line "Jeremy Corbyn attacks EU campaign 'hype'" which should play well with people disillusioned with the distortions being played out by both sides right now.

Difficult for the whiners to say that they don't know where Labour stand on this now.

Talking to my mother today, she was an outer until she read Corbyn's mailshot about it, and is now unsure/inclined to remain because she agreed with him on it, so...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 2:11 pm

Joel Hills ‏@ITVJoel 1m1 minute ago Paddington, London
Breaking news: Duff&Phelps is set to announce the BHS Group will be wound down. 11,000 staff being told now.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 2:16 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Conditional discharge for Patrick Rock. Might sound cushy but he is now a registered sex offender.
Yes, I know from my time in the counter-fraud business that the very fact of a criminal record and consequent restrictions on work, loss of reputation etc can be far more punishment than a prison sentence for 'white collar' criminals. And that's without factoring in the sex offender's register thing. The judge made it clear yesterday that there was a 'sliding scale' of sentences possible considering the severity of the offences.

I presume from the quick sentencing there was nothing in the way of probation reports etc.

Yeah, presume so. Nor psychiatric reports. Looks like he just went for a "it's like Britney" defence with no mitigation. So apart from making the judgement (nope, not just like Britney) sounds an easy case.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 2:20 pm

Jeremy Corbyn: It's not racist for people to feel concerned about immigration

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 62021.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 2:31 pm

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 46s47 seconds ago
Corbyn’s speech flushed out IoD which immediately called on Britons to approve TTIP they have not seen. Let’s see Cameron match the pledge?

Cameron won't though, will he? Under his PMship the UK has been one of the strongest in favour of TTIP.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 3:06 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 46s47 seconds ago
Corbyn’s speech flushed out IoD which immediately called on Britons to approve TTIP they have not seen. Let’s see Cameron match the pledge?
Cameron won't though, will he? Under his PMship the UK has been one of the strongest in favour of TTIP.

Yes, very awkward for Dave.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 3:10 pm

Mike Coulson ‏@mikecoulson48 1h1 hour ago Sherburn In Elmet, England

"I will rebuild the fire service" - Jeremy Corbyn's message to firefighters

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 4:36 pm

Off-topic - has anyone been having difficulty receiving parcels recently?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 4:37 pm

Spectators at French Open are wrapping themselves in blankets ... grim weather. Makes me feel just that little bit smug to be enjoying such brilliant sunshine.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 5:16 pm

David Allen Green
‏@DavidAllenGreen
From a legalistic (rather than political) perspective, it looks like almost no chance of by-elections being caused by expense allegations.

Shame, but would hopefully be a big black cloud over Tories, like Cash for Questions.

But, I'm wondering why Lutfur Rahman, with no fines against him, can be turfed out of office and barred from standing again.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 5:24 pm

citizenJA wrote:Off-topic - has anyone been having difficulty receiving parcels recently?

I rarely get any, so can't help you there.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 5:25 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Spectators at French Open are wrapping themselves in blankets ... grim weather. Makes me feel just that little bit smug to be enjoying such brilliant sunshine.

Speak for yourself

We have the fire on again, and I'm in two layers of woollies...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 5:33 pm

I'm sorry to tell you it's been gorgeous here again. Very warm, blue sky.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 02 Jun, 2016 5:34 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Spectators at French Open are wrapping themselves in blankets ... grim weather. Makes me feel just that little bit smug to be enjoying such brilliant sunshine.
Speak for yourself We have the fire on again, and I'm in two layers of woollies...

I'm trying to resist putting a jumper on thinking that I really shouldn't have to in June.