Thursday 15th.Jun 2016

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 5:26 am

Morning, all.

Thank you for the lovely messages - the Showmaster is bloody but unbowed, and wearing a very fetching bolster under his hooter.
Having been informed very forcibly that I will tolerate no nonsense this time, he's doing what he's been told.

(Dearest Ohso - he's not a Ringmaster, has no top hat, but does wear a very rakish fedora.....)

Brexit Schmexit. If it wasn't so important, I'd be laughing my socks off at the ridiculousness of it all.
It is now all about Armada re-enactments on the Thames, Bojo's fantasy government, and more effing lies.
Tonight, it will be all about La Mensch. AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

OGRPPFGTCC informed Jon Snow that the Tories did "nothing untoward" regarding election expenses. This must be why his lawyers have been off to court to fight against the police getting extensions on the time limits for further investigations, then. Obviously......
He also said that he would "accept the judgement of the British people" on the EU referendum. That's big of him. Wanker. Having put the British people into a situation where they have to vote, he's prepared to accept what they decide. What a guy.

I blame Corbyn. He's been, like, nowhere, while it's been raining. H didn't even offer to pick Show up from the hospital. Hopeless.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 5:55 am

Quite clear who is the Ringmaster.Check out MSP's Wales football song,if you haven't heard it.Not bad,for a football song,but it is all relative.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 7:47 am

HindleA wrote:Quite clear who is the Ringmaster.Check out MSP's Wales football song,if you haven't heard it.Not bad,for a football song,but it is all relative.

Hah!

As long as the crowd are in good voice for Wlad Fy Nadhau (though they won't be as good as the rugby supporters) I'm happy.

"And we were singing, hymns and arias, Land of My Fathers, ar hyd y nos...." Good old Max. Still singing that song aged 72.

More arrests and whatnot in France during the night. I don't care which country the thugs come from - they are a disgrace.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:07 am

Good morfternoon.

Do what? As if there wasn't enough confusion and mis-information flying around already . .

Morning briefing
Claire Phipps

With just one week to go until voters cast their crosses to stay or go

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:16 am

Morning all ,

Getting used to this now, browsing in bed and tapping a screen to communicate, who'd have thunk it.

Hope all is well with Show ephie x

Anyhoo - A A Gill wrote this wonderful piece over the weekend regarding EU & jolly olde Engerlaand

Doing the rounds on Twitter now, worth a read ....

Here's that AA Gill article in full #voteremain.

Brexit: AA Gill argues for ‘In’.
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of that most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia

AA Gill
June 12 2016, 12:01am,
The Sunday Times

It was the woman on Question Time that really did it for me. She was so familiar. There is someone like her in every queue, every coffee shop, outside every school in every parish council in the country. Middle-aged, middle-class, middle-brow, over-made-up, with her National Health face and weatherproof English expression of hurt righteousness, she’s Britannia’s mother-in-law. The camera closed in on her and she shouted: “All I want is my country back. Give me my country back.”

It was a heartfelt cry of real distress and the rest of the audience erupted in sympathetic applause, but I thought: “Back from what? Back from where?”

Wanting the country back is the constant mantra of all the outies. Farage slurs it, Gove insinuates it. Of course I know what they mean. We all know what they mean. They mean back from Johnny Foreigner, back from the brink, back from the future, back-to-back, back to bosky hedges and dry stone walls and country lanes and church bells and warm beer and skittles and football rattles and cheery banter and clogs on cobbles. Back to vicars-and-tarts parties and Carry On fart jokes, back to Elgar and fudge and proper weather and herbaceous borders and cars called Morris. Back to victoria sponge and 22 yards to a wicket and 15 hands to a horse and 3ft to a yard and four fingers in a Kit Kat, back to gooseberries not avocados, back to deference and respect, to make do and mend and smiling bravely and biting your lip and suffering in silence and patronising foreigners with pity.

We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of the most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia. The warm, crumbly, honey-coloured, collective “yesterday” with its fond belief that everything was better back then, that Britain (England, really) is a worse place now than it was at some foggy point in the past where we achieved peak Blighty. It’s the knowledge that the best of us have been and gone, that nothing we can build will be as lovely as a National Trust Georgian country house, no art will be as good as a Turner, no poem as wonderful as If, no writer a touch on Shakespeare or Dickens, nothing will grow as lovely as a cottage garden, no hero greater than Nelson, no politician better than Churchill, no view more throat-catching than the White Cliffs and that we will never manufacture anything as great as a Rolls-Royce or Flying Scotsman again.

The dream of Brexit isn’t that we might be able to make a brighter, new, energetic tomorrow, it’s a desire to shuffle back to a regret-curdled inward-looking yesterday. In the Brexit fantasy, the best we can hope for is to kick out all the work-all-hours foreigners and become caretakers to our own past in this self-congratulatory island of moaning and pomposity.

And if you think that’s an exaggeration of the Brexit position, then just listen to the language they use: “We are a nation of inventors and entrepreneurs, we want to put the great back in Britain, the great engineers, the great manufacturers.” This is all the expression of a sentimental nostalgia. In the Brexiteer’s mind’s eye is the old Pathé newsreel of Donald Campbell, of John Logie Baird with his television, Barnes Wallis and his bouncing bomb, and Robert Baden-Powell inventing boy scouts in his shed.

All we need, their argument goes, is to be free of the humourless Germans and spoilsport French and all their collective liberalism and reality. There is a concomitant hope that if we manage to back out of Europe, then we’ll get back to the bowler-hatted 1950s and the Commonwealth will hold pageants, fireworks displays and beg to be back in the Queen Empress’s good books again. Then New Zealand will sacrifice a thousand lambs, Ghana will ask if it can go back to being called the Gold Coast and Britain will resume hand-making Land Rovers and top hats and Sheffield plate teapots.

There is a reason that most of the people who want to leave the EU are old while those who want to remain are young: it’s because the young aren’t infected with Bisto nostalgia. They don’t recognise half the stuff I’ve mentioned here. They’ve grown up in the EU and at worst it’s been neutral for them.

The under-thirties want to be part of things, not aloof from them. They’re about being joined-up and counted. I imagine a phrase most outies identify with is “women’s liberation has gone too far”. Everything has gone too far for them, from political correctness — well, that’s gone mad, hasn’t it? — to health and safety and gender-neutral lavatories. Those oldies, they don’t know if they’re coming or going, what with those newfangled mobile phones and kids on Tinder and Grindr. What happened to meeting Miss Joan Hunter Dunn at the tennis club? And don’t get them started on electric hand dryers, or something unrecognised in the bagging area, or Indian call centres , or the impertinent computer asking for a password that has both capitals and little letters and numbers and more than eight digits.

Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty
We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they’re going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they’re offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a shag at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side.

Really, that’s their best offer? That’s the plan? To swagger into Brussels with Union Jack pants on and say: “ ’Ello luv, you’re looking nice today. Would you like some?”

When the rest of us ask how that’s really going to work, leavers reply, with Terry-Thomas smirks, that “they’re going to still really fancy us, honest, they’re gagging for us. Possibly not Merkel, but the bosses of Mercedes and those French vintners and cheesemakers, they can’t get enough of old John Bull. Of course they’re going to want to go on making the free market with two backs after we’ve got the decree nisi. Makes sense, doesn’t it?”

Have no doubt, this is a divorce. It’s not just business, it’s not going to be all reason and goodwill. Like all divorces, leaving Europe would be ugly and mean and hurtful, and it would lead to a great deal of poisonous xenophobia and racism, all the niggling personal prejudice that dumped, betrayed and thwarted people are prey to. And the racism and prejudice are, of course, weak points for us. The tortuous renegotiation with lawyers and courts will be bitter and vengeful, because divorces always are and, just in passing, this sovereignty thing we’re supposed to want back so badly, like Frodo’s ring, has nothing to do with you or me. We won’t notice it coming back, because we didn’t notice not having it in the first place.

You won’t wake up on June 24 and think: “Oh my word, my arthritis has gone! My teeth are suddenly whiter! Magically, I seem to know how to make a soufflé and I’m buff with the power of sovereignty.” This is something only politicians care about; it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.

Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.

The first “X” I ever put on a voting slip was to say yes to the EU. The first referendum was when I was 20 years old. This one will be in the week of my 62nd birthday. For nearly all my adult life, there hasn’t been a day when I haven’t been pleased and proud to be part of this great collective. If you ask me for my nationality, the truth is I feel more European than anything else. I am part of this culture, this European civilisation. I can walk into any gallery on our continent and completely understand the images and the stories on the walls. These people are my people and they have been for thousands of years. I can read books on subjects from Ancient Greece to Dark Ages Scandinavia, from Renaissance Italy to 19th-century France, and I don’t need the context or the landscape explained to me. The music of Europe, from its scales and its instruments to its rhythms and religion, is my music. The Renaissance, the rococo, the Romantics, the impressionists, gothic, baroque, neoclassicism, realism, expressionism, futurism, fauvism, cubism, dada, surrealism, postmodernism and kitsch were all European movements and none of them belongs to a single nation.

There is a reason why the Chinese are making fake Italian handbags and the Italians aren’t making fake Chinese ones. This European culture, without question or argument, is the greatest, most inventive, subtle, profound, beautiful and powerful genius that was ever contrived anywhere by anyone and it belongs to us. Just look at my day job — food. The change in food culture and pleasure has been enormous since we joined the EU, and that’s no coincidence. What we eat, the ingredients, the recipes, may come from around the world, but it is the collective to and fro of European interests, expertise and imagination that has made it all so very appetising and exciting.

The restaurant was a European invention, naturally. The first one in Paris was called The London Bridge.

Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?

I understand that if we leave we don’t have to hand back our library ticket for European civilisation, but why would we even think about it? In fact, the only ones who would are those old, philistine scared gits. Look at them, too frightened to join in.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:22 am

Morning All

This is a few days old now, but I don't recall it being linked here and it's flipping fantastic!

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... -right-now" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Laurie Penny eu-undemocratic-and-run-interests-business-it-s-our-least-worst-option-right-now

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:26 am

There are a couple of polls due at lunchtime. Nervously biting fingernails.

See you later. Fingers crossed the rain holds off, the builder is starting the woodwork and masonry prepping outside today.
Having the house painted is a sixtieth birthday treat to myself.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:34 am

So Boris is upping the ante. He's gone way beyond pointing at fish. He's handling live lobsters and de-boning a salmon for the cameras. Take that Cameron.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:37 am

yahyah wrote:There are a couple of polls due at lunchtime. Nervously biting fingernails.

See you later. Fingers crossed the rain holds off, the builder is starting the woodwork and masonry prepping outside today.
Having the house painted is a sixtieth birthday treat to myself.

No point in being nervous about the polls. They may be rubbish. Or - if they favour one side - Out in particular - they could cause a surge of support to the other team. Nothing that can really be deduced from them.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:42 am

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 41m41 minutes ago
It's Tooting by-election day! Tory Dan Watkins reckons it'll be "incredibly close - within a thousand votes"

Tooting’s Tory Candidate Says He Won’t Be Playing Zac Goldsmith-Style Politics
Dan Watkins tells BuzzFeed News his campaign in south London has always been “entirely positive”. He’s also been picking up some tips from his former rival Sadiq Khan.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/to ... hlp0xr1W5n" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:56 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 41m41 minutes ago
It's Tooting by-election day! Tory Dan Watkins reckons it'll be "incredibly close - within a thousand votes"

Tooting’s Tory Candidate Says He Won’t Be Playing Zac Goldsmith-Style Politics
Dan Watkins tells BuzzFeed News his campaign in south London has always been “entirely positive”. He’s also been picking up some tips from his former rival Sadiq Khan.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/to ... hlp0xr1W5n" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who did Suliman Gani campaign for?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:58 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 41m41 minutes ago
It's Tooting by-election day! Tory Dan Watkins reckons it'll be "incredibly close - within a thousand votes"

Tooting’s Tory Candidate Says He Won’t Be Playing Zac Goldsmith-Style Politics
Dan Watkins tells BuzzFeed News his campaign in south London has always been “entirely positive”. He’s also been picking up some tips from his former rival Sadiq Khan.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/to ... hlp0xr1W5n" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Blimey! I'd forgotten all about that - thanks for the reminder.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 8:59 am

Ayesha Hazarika and Steve Richards on Radio 4. Both saying that from interviews they've had with Labour MPs they (MPs) are very very worried that the Labour vote for Remain won't be there ... it's lost in their words.

The only glimmer I take from this - if true - is that it may make for more connection with and listening to the people they had assumed would take up the same position as themselves by Labour MPs. That would be a very good thing for the future.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 9:00 am

danesclose wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 41m41 minutes ago
It's Tooting by-election day! Tory Dan Watkins reckons it'll be "incredibly close - within a thousand votes"

Tooting’s Tory Candidate Says He Won’t Be Playing Zac Goldsmith-Style Politics
Dan Watkins tells BuzzFeed News his campaign in south London has always been “entirely positive”. He’s also been picking up some tips from his former rival Sadiq Khan.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/to ... hlp0xr1W5n" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Who did Suliman Gani campaign for?

Poor man. I expect he stayed right out of it.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 9:04 am

TobyLatimer wrote: Brexit: AA Gill argues for ‘In’.
We all know what “getting our country back” means. It’s snorting a line of that most pernicious and debilitating Little English drug, nostalgia

Oh, I don't know... there's something to be said for nostalgia - how about firing up the engines on HMS Belfast, training the guns on Farage's flotilla and checking that it all still works...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 9:28 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Ayesha Hazarika and Steve Richards on Radio 4. Both saying that from interviews they've had with Labour MPs they (MPs) are very very worried that the Labour vote for Remain won't be there ... it's lost in their words.

The only glimmer I take from this - if true - is that it may make for more connection with and listening to the people they had assumed would take up the same position as themselves by Labour MPs. That would be a very good thing for the future.

Have they seen some different polls from me? The last I saw had Labour voters at 58% for "remain". I thought that was quite reasonable support for the party position. Labour has always been split on the EU, they're not the Libdems or anything. What did they expect? Ed knew the British public have been poisoned against the EU over the years, not least by Cameron himself, and as such no PM who thought it was in our interests to stay in would risk holding a referendum - apart from Dave McStupid, of course.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 9:32 am

Did anyone read Suzanne Moore's latest in The Graun?

: 2016-06-16_092924.jpg (26.32 KiB) Viewed 9887 times

Having had my blood pressure raised by Michael Howard blatantly lying whilst being interviewed on BBC TV this morning I'm afraid that I may go into full
GAAAAAH! mode if I read it.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 9:37 am

Suzanne must be Beryl in real life.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 9:39 am

That Barney Farmer should get a page in the Graun if there were any justice

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:17 am

Caught a bit of Bryant on WATO yesterday, correcting Carney's talk of the PLP Labour Party being split on the referendum. Shame on the media that this fact, and unlike a lot of the claims and estimates and hubristic statements that have been labelled as facts, this is glossed over.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:19 am

TobyLatimer wrote:Morning all ,

Getting used to this now, browsing in bed and tapping a screen to communicate, who'd have thunk it.

Hope all is well with Show ephie x

Anyhoo - A A Gill wrote this wonderful piece over the weekend regarding EU & jolly olde Engerlaand Doing the rounds on Twitter now, worth a read ....

Here's that AA Gill article in full #voteremain.

It's good to see you here regularly.
We did have a link to that article the other day but I didn't read it at the time, I should have.

it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg. What matters is that we have as many judges as possible on the side of personal freedom.

Personally, I see nothing about our legislators in the UK that makes me feel I can confidently give them more power. The more checks and balances politicians have, the better for the rest of us. You can’t have too many wise heads and different opinions. If you’re really worried about red tape, by the way, it’s not just a European problem. We’re perfectly capable of coming up with our own rules and regulations and we have no shortage of jobsworths. Red tape may be annoying, but it is also there to protect your and my family from being lied to, poisoned and cheated.

The country he describes is the one I want back.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:29 am

I've just realised A A Gill is almost the same age as me, so it's no wonder it resonates.

Culture works and grows through the constant warp and weft of creators, producers, consumers, intellectuals and instinctive lovers. You can’t dictate or legislate for it, you can just make a place that encourages it and you can truncate it. You can make it harder and more grudging, you can put up barriers and you can build walls, but why on earth would you? This collective culture, this golden civilisation grown on this continent over thousands of years, has made everything we have and everything we are, why would you not want to be part of it?

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:39 am

As I suspected, despite the evidence to the contrary, the "It's all Labour's fault" articles have started:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... one-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:47 am

danesclose wrote:As I suspected, despite the evidence to the contrary, the "It's all Labour's fault" articles have started:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... one-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour are dooooooooooomed. Again.

I'd be interested to hear the logic behind replacing Corbyn after Brexit with someone more pro European than himself.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:48 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 41m41 minutes ago
It's Tooting by-election day! Tory Dan Watkins reckons it'll be "incredibly close - within a thousand votes"

Tooting’s Tory Candidate Says He Won’t Be Playing Zac Goldsmith-Style Politics
Dan Watkins tells BuzzFeed News his campaign in south London has always been “entirely positive”. He’s also been picking up some tips from his former rival Sadiq Khan.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/to ... hlp0xr1W5n" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tories quoted at about 10-1 at the bookies, in a seat where they only lost to Khan by 5.3% last year.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:03 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 41m41 minutes ago
It's Tooting by-election day! Tory Dan Watkins reckons it'll be "incredibly close - within a thousand votes"

Tooting’s Tory Candidate Says He Won’t Be Playing Zac Goldsmith-Style Politics
Dan Watkins tells BuzzFeed News his campaign in south London has always been “entirely positive”. He’s also been picking up some tips from his former rival Sadiq Khan.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/to ... hlp0xr1W5n" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tories quoted at about 10-1 at the bookies, in a seat where they only lost to Khan by 5.3% last year.

Wow, I thought Watkins was deemed a strong candidate?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:04 am

yahyah wrote:There are a couple of polls due at lunchtime. Nervously biting fingernails.

See you later. Fingers crossed the rain holds off, the builder is starting the woodwork and masonry prepping outside today.
Having the house painted is a sixtieth birthday treat to myself.

Many Happy Returns yahyah x

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:07 am

danesclose wrote:As I suspected, despite the evidence to the contrary, the "It's all Labour's fault" articles have started:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... one-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its really impossible to overstate how bad Eaton has been since Corbyn won.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:17 am

@yahyah

Happy birthday! (Assuming it is today.)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:20 am

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tories quoted at about 10-1 at the bookies, in a seat where they only lost to Khan by 5.3% last year.
Wow, I thought Watkins was deemed a strong candidate?

Maybe he is, but so is Labour's

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:21 am

Good-morning, everyone!

I've not yet read everyone's posts this morning but have read last night's I'd missed - thank you for your wonderful responses to what I'd written.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:27 am

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2016 ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

London rounds on government over housing

Labour-led local authorities in London have vowed to go against government plans for homeownership and build social housing for rent in their boroughs.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:28 am

Happy Birthday yahyah

Post by **refitman** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:30 am

Sounds like Corbyn is making a strong speech.

To no-ones surprise, Laura K is already slagging him off.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:45 am

Morning all.

South West NHS 111 service rated inadequate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-36539768

Chris Nelson, joint branch secretary at Unison for South West Ambulance, said the report was "clearly very damning".
"What we experience within NHS 111 is indicative, unfortunately, of the national problem with NHS 111, a service that is poorly understood, poorly commissioned, poorly funded will always fail, despite the clear and obvious efforts that are being made by our members", he said.

Quite.

Now, which government was it that changed the system that was working at the time, to implement this one that is clearly not?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 11:55 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Do what? As if there wasn't enough confusion and mis-information flying around already . .

Morning briefing
Claire Phipps

With just one week to go until voters cast their crosses to stay or go

(my bold)
Agreed, a needlessly slaughtered sentence, garbled, cringeworthy, confusing. Reminds me of my own careless writing.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:19 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
danesclose wrote:As I suspected, despite the evidence to the contrary, the "It's all Labour's fault" articles have started:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... one-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Labour are dooooooooooomed. Again.

I'd be interested to hear the logic behind replacing Corbyn after Brexit with someone more pro European than himself.

Politics isn't logical, many times reason doesn't show up either
The demagogue turns the crowd upon dime, one-hundred-eighty degrees in thirty seconds
Scary as hell

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:28 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:That Barney Farmer should get a page in the Graun if there were any justice

I agree with you. Maybe they're negotiating a deal.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:30 pm

Yahyah's birthday was in April

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:30 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:
yahyah wrote:There are a couple of polls due at lunchtime. Nervously biting fingernails.

See you later. Fingers crossed the rain holds off, the builder is starting the woodwork and masonry prepping outside today.
Having the house painted is a sixtieth birthday treat to myself.
Many Happy Returns yahyah x

Thanks Toby, it was back in April, but as I was unwell at the time I feel like the Queen and am having an official one too. I feel like the Queen not having to do the sanding and painting.

Vordy · Post by **Vordy** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:31 pm

Hello to all,just flying by the nest so thought I would drop in.

One in ten Germans want a FUHRER to run their country, while 12% claim Germans are 'superior to other people'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/on ... er-8205217" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:32 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
danesclose wrote:As I suspected, despite the evidence to the contrary, the "It's all Labour's fault" articles have started:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... one-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Its really impossible to overstate how bad Eaton has been since Corbyn won.

Yeah I've responded to him loads on Twitter and he never replies any more.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:38 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
danesclose wrote:As I suspected, despite the evidence to the contrary, the "It's all Labour's fault" articles have started:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... one-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Its really impossible to overstate how bad Eaton has been since Corbyn won.
Yeah I've responded to him loads on Twitter and he never replies any more.

I've noticed that is the case with him more generally (true of several journalists of his ilk, actually)

They genuinely don't like the hoi polloi taking them to task, do they?

Btw see that recent YouGov poll on trust, and the differences on this regarding "remain" and "leave" supporters?? Print journalists were amongst the *least* trusted - by a whopping 76 to 11 per cent - and, uniquely, they were equally despised by *both* sides.

(generally, "remainers" tended to trust more)

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:43 pm

Japanese Trump commercial

[youtube]ZbM6WbUw7Bs[/youtube]

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:45 pm

The new polls give Leave a 3 point, and 6 point lead.

Am staying

If Leave win, will have everything crossed that Galloway, Skinner and assorted left wingers are right and it all goes swimmmingly. Onward and upward to some new wonderful more progressive reality.

And if Boris J ends up in Downing Street and puts Farage into the Lords and the government...what on earth could possibly go wrong ?....keep telling myself that....

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:46 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 3h3 hours ago
Ipsos MORI phone
Remain 47% -11
Leave 53% +11
Methodolgy change
58 retweets 24 likes

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 4h4 hours ago
LEAVE 6% ahead with Ipsos-MORI phone poll

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 28m28 minutes ago
Survation phone gives LEAVE 3% lead

Sorry yahyah. But as I said earlier it may mean some iffy or lazy Remainers get their act together and the status quo surge kicks in now. And they've called in Jeremy Clarkson to rally the troops - so it'll be alright.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:46 pm

Snap yahyah!

Was just in for a spot of lunch - now back out to work. Catch you later.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:49 pm

Talking of journalists ignoring helpful suggestions, this is in Toady's "facts" about the EU piece.

Only a minor mistake but if you can't even get simple things like this right - despite being told twice that it's clearly wrong - what does that say about the rest?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:51 pm

Clarkson to rally for Remain ? Crikey, it is a mad world.

But to be honest, I wipe my hands of it all. Am totally giving up on the whole thing.
All so very depressing.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Jun, 2016 12:52 pm

Smithson tweeted that Betfair still have Remain on 60% probability, not that I am bovvered of course