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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm also unsure of the wisdom of an uncontested election.
What are Tory voters in Batley supposed to do? Vote for an MP standing for a party they don't agree with? Not vote?
And on the other side, there will still a need to select a candidate for Labour. So the Labour party members in Batley essentially get to select the next MP for the constituency.
I think democracy should continue. If some Tory voters in Batley choose to vote for a Labour candidate because of the circumstances, then so be it. I'd rather THEY chose that path than Shapps & Cameron.
Ditto the kippers.
Good from Corbyn.
' She was taken from us in an act of hatred; in a vile act that has killed her. It's an attack on democracy what happened yesterday - it's the well of hatred that killed her. '
(my bold)
I agree, good from Corbyn. I'm relieved reading his statement. Too many pussyfooting around, at best, that's a concessionary
term as far as I'm concerned. Tory government's press suppressing communications knowing full well their crap leadership
divisive six years have contributed to the circumstances resulting in an MP's assassination.
RogerOThornhill wrote:I've wondered before whether, if a seat becomes vacant through the death of a sitting MP, there ought to be a by election at all and whether the party in possession of the seat simply nominate someone to take over until the next GE.
Obviously different of the MP resigns for whatever reason but if at a GE people vote for a party, then shouldn't they expect that party to fill that seat until the next GE?
Isn't that the point though, you vote for a person, not a party.
Hence the hoo-ha over local/national expenses.
(my bold)
Is that correct? I understand candidates' names are on the ballot but doesn't tradition/protocol place political party first?
I genuinely don't know and would like correction if I'm wrong.
RogerOThornhill wrote:I've wondered before whether, if a seat becomes vacant through the death of a sitting MP, there ought to be a by election at all and whether the party in possession of the seat simply nominate someone to take over until the next GE.
Obviously different of the MP resigns for whatever reason but if at a GE people vote for a party, then shouldn't they expect that party to fill that seat until the next GE?
Isn't that the point though, you vote for a person, not a party.
Hence the hoo-ha over local/national expenses.
(my bold)
Is that correct? I understand candidates' names are on the ballot but doesn't tradition/protocol place political party first?
I genuinely don't know and would like correction if I'm wrong.
Person surely? If after being elected they decide to switch parties they can do so without automatically triggering a by election.
RogerOThornhill wrote:I've wondered before whether, if a seat becomes vacant through the death of a sitting MP, there ought to be a by election at all and whether the party in possession of the seat simply nominate someone to take over until the next GE.
Obviously different of the MP resigns for whatever reason but if at a GE people vote for a party, then shouldn't they expect that party to fill that seat until the next GE?
Isn't that the point though, you vote for a person, not a party.
Hence the hoo-ha over local/national expenses.
Well up to a point but are there situations where people wouldn't vote for the party they usually support because they don;t like the candidate? I would have said it was more usual that if you were switching from one party to another it was due to the policies of those parties and not the candidate.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
I think that Anatoly is right - I think that all parties who would normally stand in a by-election should do so.
MPs have died whilst in office in all manner of circumstances.
However sad the situation - and this is a tragedy - I think it is very important that the constituency is represented by a duly elected MP who has won the trust of the majority of the voters.
I am not a Tory voter; but if I were, even if I felt that my candidate was unlikely to win, I would not feel that my interests had been served by my party. I think all main parties should stand.
I don't pretend to know Jo Cox. I knew very little about her until this appalling act of her murder. But those who do know her have been saying that she was a great champion of democracy.
I happen to think that it would be more respectful of the standards and mores she held to have another election in her constituency in exactly the same way as would have happened had she died in almost any other circumstances.
I also think that this a deeply cynical move by the Tories, and craven to boot. I don't trust a single word they say; and I suspect that they know it would take a very brave candidate to stand for their party in that constituency. They probably haven't got one.
But that doesn't mean they shouldn't - as JFK said (of something else entirely) "We choose to (go to the moon in this decade) and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard".
This is a terrible thing to have happened - but in the interests of democracy, the by-election should be held with a full/normal roster of hopefuls. For one of the largest mainstream parties to effectively do a runner is disrespectful to the memory of a woman who was passionate about democracy and who won her seat in a fair contest. Any Labour MP who follows her will not have her legitimacy if they face no real opposition.
Knowing how this current crop of Tories choose to behave, I am jaded enough with their antics to seriously think that they are not doing this as any mark of respect. They want to look good, they know they'd lose, and they can't be arsed to fight. That's them all over, that is.
It's not compulsory for any party to field a candidate in any given election - but if any party would, under circumstances in which the death of the MP called for a by-election, normally field a candidate then thy should do so this time too.
That's not a lack of respect, that's proper democracy. For Cameron to make this gesture, obviously thinking that people will applaud him for it, is one of the most cynical things I've seen for a long time. This gesture is about him and him alone - not Jo Cox.
Jo's husband, children, and all those she loved and was loved by have been in my thoughts and meditations today.
So has the man accused of her killing - I make no apology for that. Hate the sin, but try to love the sinner.
IF - and it's a big "if" as yet - this man did what he did out of rage and fury, we need to know what he was thinking, and why.
He will not be alone in those thoughts; and there are people in this country who are guilty of deliberately winding up those who are ignored and disaffected. He will be punished, but they will not. That's the wider tragedy here, and I suspect Jo Cox might have agreed with me.
We're all reeling a bit, I think. What I have learned in AA recovery is that whenever I am disturbed or emotionally fragile (and I was both yesterday) I need a bit of sober reflection. I have engaged with that today, and these are my views, and I don't write them lightly.
Apologies if I offend anyone - these are my sincerely held opinions.
Last edited by ephemerid on Fri 17 Jun, 2016 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
yahyah wrote:Maybe all the people saying Mair wasn't political don't understand what right wing ideology is ?
Just because he wasn't an activist for a mainstream political party doesn't mean he wasn't political.
His alleged contact with extremist racist libertarians shows he was.
There's always been a tendency in the UK for the media and "establishment" to portray British far-right terrorists as "lone wolves", insane individuals who lived in a vacuum, will everyone please ignore who they hung out with, what they were reading, what they themselves said.
Even David Copeland, the Soho gay pub bomber, was presented for public consumption that way.
gilsey wrote:
Isn't that the point though, you vote for a person, not a party.
Hence the hoo-ha over local/national expenses.
(my bold)
Is that correct? I understand candidates' names are on the ballot but doesn't tradition/protocol place political party first?
I genuinely don't know and would like correction if I'm wrong.
Person surely? If after being elected they decide to switch parties they can do so without automatically triggering a by election.
Yes - Danczuk still has his seat and he's been tossed out of the Labour party.
Jo Cox death: Alleged killer Tommy Mair 'bought gun-making manual from far-right neo-Nazi group'
Documents suggest Mair had recorded links to National Alliance
Exactly as I said last night.
To say the drip, drip, drip of the right wing media has nothing to do with it is rubbish.
Loners that kill haven't sat at home twiddling their thumbs doing nothing. They've been reading the news, using their computer, probably watching violent DVDs and generally feeding their obsession.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
gilsey wrote:I think if Mair was a member of a known terrorist organisation it would be quite wrong for the by-election to be uncontested, as it is, I don't feel strongly about it.
Except that it sets a possibly uncomfortable precedent. What if it was a marginal?
Well it has been a Labour seat since 1997, though never a massively safe one. Comparable to the by-election we have just had in a way.
A petition opposing a retrospective rise in the cost of student loans that obtained 120,000 signatures in just a few days has been
rejected by the government. Campaigner Alex True, who began the petition while doing his finals at Durham University, said he
was “disappointed and disheartened” at the government’s response.
The petition focused on a promise made in 2010 that from April 2017 the student loans repayment threshold of £21,000 would
be upped each year with average earnings.
It argued that “the government has now backtracked on this promise, freezing the threshold at £21,000. Graduates will now pay
more on their student loans”.
But the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills said in a statement posted on the petition site: “Freezing the repayment
threshold ensures that the student support system remains affordable to the taxpayer and all students can access a university
education, irrespective of their ability to pay.
“This government is ensuring higher education is open to more people than ever before, and application rates from disadvantaged
young people seeking to go to university are currently at record levels. But higher education and further education must remain
affordable to the taxpayer.”
ohsocynical wrote:Reading some of the Tweets about Jo's killer, I have suddenly wondered.
Should we perhaps be using 'vulnerable' rather than mentally ill?
According to the G,searchers found Nazi 'regalia' and far right materials in Mairs' house,some of it going back to the late 1990s.
Don't like to disagree with you Mrs Ohso,but I wouldn't call someone who is basically a neo nazi,and who apparently lay in wait for and deliberately murdered an unarmed woman 'vulnerable'.
Anyway,all ghastly.
How's Mr Ohso getting on?
Natalie Bennett @natalieben 2h2 hours ago
Green Party leadership believes that out of respect for Jo Cox we shouldn't stand in by-election. Democratic decision by local party soon.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Totally agree. David Cameron in, "Look at me. I'm being sombre, magnanimous and respectful." (Ukip, too.)
I don't think this situation should be turned into some sort of competition. I also think it would have been more respectful to keep quiet about by-election intentions until a by-election had been called - even if asked about them.
ohsocynical wrote:Reading some of the Tweets about Jo's killer, I have suddenly wondered.
Should we perhaps be using 'vulnerable' rather than mentally ill?
According to the G,searchers found Nazi 'regalia' and far right materials in Mairs' house,some of it going back to the late 1990s.
Don't like to disagree with you Mrs Ohso,but I wouldn't call someone who is basically a neo nazi,and who apparently lay in wait for and deliberately murdered an unarmed woman 'vulnerable'.
Anyway,all ghastly.
How's Mr Ohso getting on?
Vulnerable to suggestion? I just remember when I was severely depressed I couldn't lift a finger in anger or happiness. I came to a complete stop a few times.
I know there are all different sorts of mental illness, but he was on a functioning level.
Mr Ohso is beginning to feel the effects of the treatment. He has had five weeks. Next Friday is the last day. Then the following week into hospital for - hopefully - just a few hours to remove the catheter and check he's got no long term damage and will be able to wee properly again. Around the end of July they will do scans and see if the radiotherapy has worked ... Nail biting times. Then they'll start seeing to the one on his lung. It's not moving at present but it'll need seeing to.
It's almost a year to the day since he was alerted to the cancer. It feels a lot longer.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Still a sad day but it has been good to see a politician actually getting some deserved credit for what she had done and how sad the circumstances are
Firstly, I will say I am not in full agreement to suspend all opposition in the by-election. I can understand the sentiment but think it is too early to make that type of decision (there is no time pressure on it) and it sits uncomfortably with a Parliamentary democracy.
Secondly, you can see why Cameron is more popular than his party. he seems to manage to get things right when dealing in a public forum.....his PR sliminess helping. When he would feel under pressure (like in a debate) he avoids it unless it is something that will be reported at a superficial level (like PMQ).
Finally, on the murderer. It is looking more and more like an assassination (as Hilary Clinton said) - a premeditated attack on a politician. What particular catalyst caused it is not yet clear but if the stories about extreme right wing connections is right then we have to look at some sort of race reason. What triggered it....Jo Cox's support for refugees or the Brexit rhetoric again it is too early to say
Even if it is not linked directly to the referendum but race is still involved then there has to be a reaction. We cannot do the normal British thing of pretending all is okay after a couple of days. The Labour Party should refuse to share a platform with Farage until he comes out and publicly flogs himself for that most despicable poster launched not he day of the murder. Even if it is not the direct cause of the radicalisation of the man concerned then it is part of the atmosphere being created. We cannot pretend that the tolerance of some of the rhetoric against immigrants is in any way acceptable.....he is always called for the 'muslim community' to come out and condemn all aspects of extremism...perhaps he should do the same.
As to the mental illness side of this....mental illness is a wide area and most people who are thus affected deserve sympathy and support. I assume that he has some sort of illness to even conceive of doing what he did but it is very dangerous to use this as the reason. If that was the case there is an excuse for most murderers
I read recently a book on Timothy McVeigh....there seems, on the little we know, to be some similarities between the two people......we should know more soon
For anyone interested - this is my recipe for the slightly-but-not-very-low-fat delight mentioned above.
I am a bung-it-in sort of cook, so quantities are a bit vague.......
1 jar (or about 300ml) lemon curd; about the same quantity of low-fat Greek-style yogurt; 300ml double cream, whipped to soft peaks;
2 teaspoon-sized pieces of stem ginger, chopped; 6 ordinary ginger biscuits, crushed but with some big bits; 4 of those little meringue nests they sell in supermarkets, or the homemade equivalent, broken into bits.
Swirl together the curd, yogurt, cream, and stem ginger; add the crunchy stuff and mix it evenly throughout. Freeze, and take it out every half-hour or so and give it a little stir to stop too many ice crystals from forming.
For people like me on limited fat diets, this a nice treat - not as rich as real ice-cream but you wouldn't know it from the taste.
Much easier and even better for you - just have the yogurt, add a chopped mango, and bung in some raspberry coulis. Gorgeous.
I think there is a very fine line between actual diagnosable mental illness and disturbed behaviour caused by anger/rage or whatever.
I have nursed a number people who have serious mental illness, and who did things (sometimes appalling things) whilst in the throes of an acute episode of untreated psychosis. They are actually quite rare, because usually their behaviour is odd enough in the build-up of such an episode that they come to someone's attention and get the medical help they need. They're more likely to harm themselves than injure others, in fact.
People who seek out information which many find abhorrent (eg. the sort of propaganda this man is alleged to have accessed) must have some reason for doing so in the first place. Nasty far-right publications are easily accessible on the web; some of it s very persuasive if you are someone who fears "otherness" or if you have a personal axe to grind. Like, you believe you have lost your job/home to an immigrant, for example.
Whether this man is "vulnerable" or mentally ill isn't really the point, unless the argument is that he was upset about something, sought out the propaganda that fit his world view, and was amenable to what it was saying to him.
He knew what he was doing, there must have been some planning involved, he turned up armed and prepared for a fight. I am not convinced that this is terrorism per se, but it would seem he intended to do something drastic.
What I am expecting is some sort of punishment for him - possibly involving treatment - but those who foment this hatred and prey on the fears of people who are, let's face it, none too bright and certainly not emotionally literate/mature, are the ones who get away with their part in this.
Somewhere in this country, right now, there are neo-nazis and other such vermin cheering this horrific event. They'd be doing similar if they had a smidgeon of the courage they claim. That's what frightening to me.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
ohsocynical wrote:Reading some of the Tweets about Jo's killer, I have suddenly wondered.
Should we perhaps be using 'vulnerable' rather than mentally ill?
I am afraid that any sense of the spirit of fairness towards the killer evaporates on coming within three yards of me.
He killed a mother of two young children.
I don't care how he's referred to.
I'm not condoning what he did. Far from it, but I am picking up quite a bit of worry from people with mental health problems that they're all going to be tarred with the same brush. Sadly it happens.
As well as the media, I'm afraid to say some idiots on Twitter are saying he was mental, nothing more, nothing less, end of.
We all know it's never as simple as that, but it gives the right wing press and the likes of Farage a good out, absolves them of any responsibility and that would be criminal.
Mental problems, isolated, but functioning would make him vulnerable to right wing rhetoric.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
A new lead non-executive director is being sought by the Department for Education (DfE) after academy trust chair Sir Paul Marshall announced his intention to stand down from the role.
The government has posted an advert for Marshall’s successor, who will need experience of senior leadership in “large and complex” organisation and an understanding of how government works, among other qualities in order to get the role, which pays £20,000 for just 24 days’ work a year.
Marshall, who chairs academy chain Ark and think tank the Education Policy Institute, was recently knighted for services to education and philanthropy in the Queen’s birthday honours.
His resignation is not entirely unconnected with this thinktank which recently changed its name from Centre Forum (the one which David Laws heads up as exec director) and refocused its work to be entirely on education. they've cut the ties with the LibDems too I believe.
They'd started to be increasingly critical of the DfE and I wondered out loud before how Marshall could be involved with them and the DfE at the same time.
Last edited by RogerOThornhill on Fri 17 Jun, 2016 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
ephemerid wrote:For anyone interested - this is my recipe for the slightly-but-not-very-low-fat delight mentioned above.
I am a bung-it-in sort of cook, so quantities are a bit vague.......
1 jar (or about 300ml) lemon curd; about the same quantity of low-fat Greek-style yogurt; 300ml double cream, whipped to soft peaks;
2 teaspoon-sized pieces of stem ginger, chopped; 6 ordinary ginger biscuits, crushed but with some big bits; 4 of those little meringue nests they sell in supermarkets, or the homemade equivalent, broken into bits.
Swirl together the curd, yogurt, cream, and stem ginger; add the crunchy stuff and mix it evenly throughout. Freeze, and take it out every half-hour or so and give it a little stir to stop too many ice crystals from forming.
For people like me on limited fat diets, this a nice treat - not as rich as real ice-cream but you wouldn't know it from the taste.
Much easier and even better for you - just have the yogurt, add a chopped mango, and bung in some raspberry coulis. Gorgeous.
I think there is a very fine line between actual diagnosable mental illness and disturbed behaviour caused by anger/rage or whatever.
I have nursed a number people who have serious mental illness, and who did things (sometimes appalling things) whilst in the throes of an acute episode of untreated psychosis. They are actually quite rare, because usually their behaviour is odd enough in the build-up of such an episode that they come to someone's attention and get the medical help they need. They're more likely to harm themselves than injure others, in fact.
People who seek out information which many find abhorrent (eg. the sort of propaganda this man is alleged to have accessed) must have some reason for doing so in the first place. Nasty far-right publications are easily accessible on the web; some of it s very persuasive if you are someone who fears "otherness" or if you have a personal axe to grind. Like, you believe you have lost your job/home to an immigrant, for example.
Whether this man is "vulnerable" or mentally ill isn't really the point, unless the argument is that he was upset about something, sought out the propaganda that fit his world view, and was amenable to what it was saying to him.
He knew what he was doing, there must have been some planning involved, he turned up armed and prepared for a fight. I am not convinced that this is terrorism per se, but it would seem he intended to do something drastic.
What I am expecting is some sort of punishment for him - possibly involving treatment - but those who foment this hatred and prey on the fears of people who are, let's face it, none too bright and certainly not emotionally literate/mature, are the ones who get away with their part in this.
Somewhere in this country, right now, there are neo-nazis and other such vermin cheering this horrific event. They'd be doing similar if they had a smidgeon of the courage they claim. That's what frightening to me.
You've said it so much better than me...Thanks...
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
For anyone interested - this is my recipe for the slightly-but-not-very-low-fat delight mentioned above.
I am a bung-it-in sort of cook, so quantities are a bit vague.......
1 jar (or about 300ml) lemon curd; about the same quantity of low-fat Greek-style yogurt; 300ml double cream, whipped to soft peaks;
2 teaspoon-sized pieces of stem ginger, chopped; 6 ordinary ginger biscuits, crushed but with some big bits; 4 of those little meringue nests they sell in supermarkets, or the homemade equivalent, broken into bits.
Swirl together the curd, yogurt, cream, and stem ginger; add the crunchy stuff and mix it evenly throughout. Freeze, and take it out every half-hour or so and give it a little stir to stop too many ice crystals from forming.
For people like me on limited fat diets, this a nice treat - not as rich as real ice-cream but you wouldn't know it from the taste.
Much easier and even better for you - just have the yogurt, add a chopped mango, and bung in some raspberry coulis. Gorgeous.
OMG!
Last edited by ohsocynical on Fri 17 Jun, 2016 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
ohsocynical wrote:Reading some of the Tweets about Jo's killer, I have suddenly wondered.
Should we perhaps be using 'vulnerable' rather than mentally ill?
I am afraid that any sense of the spirit of fairness towards the killer evaporates on coming within three yards of me.
He killed a mother of two young children.
I don't care how he's referred to.
I'm not condoning what he did. Far from it, but I am picking up quite a bit of worry from people with mental health problems that they're all going to be tarred with the same brush. Sadly it happens.
As well as the media, I'm afraid to say some idiots on Twitter are saying he was mental, nothing more, nothing less, end of.
We all know it's never as simple as that, but it gives the right wing press and the likes of Farage a good out, absolves them of any responsibility and that would be criminal.
Mental problems, isolated, but functioning would make him vulnerable to right wing rhetoric.
If you thought I was suggesting that, then I apologise for being unclear, that wasn't my attention. If he is mentally ill, which in a clinical sense all I've heard so far suggests he wasn't, it's just convenient for the extreme right to set him up as being so, then it certainly doesn't imply in my eyes that anyone else with mental health issues is his equivalent. As someone who has struggled with depression all his life, and been on medication for the last decade, I would hardly want to say that.
Whatever drove him, he is a thinking, breathing individual who, to the eyes of everybody around him, acted as a reasonable, responsible, decent human being. And he chose to do this. Unless or until he is credibly identified as being of diminished responsibility through mental health issues, he is to me a murderer, a vital, brutish murderer, a cowardly scumbag who attacked a woman smaller than him and needed to carry a gun and a knife because he was scared of tackling her on anything remotely resembling a level of equality.
He deserves nothing that suggests an entitlement to anything remotely resembling human respect.
As someone who has been incensed by the Tories' (alleged, hah!) shenanigans with election expenses, I am not quite as but nearly as cross about a by-election not being contested properly.
There is no question in my mind that some of the very close votes in the marginal seats targeted by the Tories and their cash were affected by the intensive efforts of Crosby, Clarke, and co.
Campaigning works - some of those constituencies were flooded with leaflets, phone canvassing, door-steppers, and Road Trippers, For days on end. That must have had an effect.
We'll never know if those seats would have been won by the Tories anyway - but the political history of some of those places where the victories were counted by a handful of votes would suggest that the love-bombing that went on influenced the eventual outcomes.
If I think that is unfair - and boy oh boy do I think that is unfair now that we know a bit more - I also have to say that it is equally unfair for a constituency to hold an election at which there are no candidates apart from the favourite.
Yes, Labour would win. Most likely. It has held the constituency since 1983. But that is no excuse for not contesting it in the correct manner, IMHO. If the Tories and the Greens don't put up a candidate, it would be a joke. In 2015, there were candidates from Labour, Conservatives, UKIP, Liberal Democrats, Greens, and the TUSC. That should happen this time.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
seen little in the papers today about mental illness being a big factor......they probably know more than they are printing at the moment
Also, saw a post on LDV
'I agree about toning down the rhetoric. I haven’t agreed with those who have started saying the Leave campaign are partly responsible without criticising the remain campaign much too.'
which exemplifies the problem we have sometimes....not prepared to face down people who help create the atmosphere.- Yes, remain has made a few silly claims about the economy but nothing that compares to the rhetoric on immigration from Leave - a deliberate ploy because it is the only thing that is resonating - and without this it would only have got worse!
I cannot imagine too may people being so pro-EU that they would go and commit a violent crime on behalf of it!
mbc1955 wrote:
I am afraid that any sense of the spirit of fairness towards the killer evaporates on coming within three yards of me.
He killed a mother of two young children.
I don't care how he's referred to.
I'm not condoning what he did. Far from it, but I am picking up quite a bit of worry from people with mental health problems that they're all going to be tarred with the same brush. Sadly it happens.
As well as the media, I'm afraid to say some idiots on Twitter are saying he was mental, nothing more, nothing less, end of.
We all know it's never as simple as that, but it gives the right wing press and the likes of Farage a good out, absolves them of any responsibility and that would be criminal.
Mental problems, isolated, but functioning would make him vulnerable to right wing rhetoric.
If you thought I was suggesting that, then I apologise for being unclear, that wasn't my attention. If he is mentally ill, which in a clinical sense all I've heard so far suggests he wasn't, it's just convenient for the extreme right to set him up as being so, then it certainly doesn't imply in my eyes that anyone else with mental health issues is his equivalent. As someone who has struggled with depression all his life, and been on medication for the last decade, I would hardly want to say that.
Whatever drove him, he is a thinking, breathing individual who, to the eyes of everybody around him, acted as a reasonable, responsible, decent human being. And he chose to do this. Unless or until he is credibly identified as being of diminished responsibility through mental health issues, he is to me a murderer, a vital, brutish murderer, a cowardly scumbag who attacked a woman smaller than him and needed to carry a gun and a knife because he was scared of tackling her on anything remotely resembling a level of equality.
He deserves nothing that suggests an entitlement to anything remotely resembling human respect.
From the Guardian article he's been building up to this final act of violence since the nineties.
I think Farage, the other politicians that have hitched themselves to his bandwagon for Brexit, and Cameron for getting us into this farce of a referendum should have the same punishment that he gets. They are all complicit in her death.
To my mind they have less excuse than the killer in that they are supposedly in their right minds and have incited this violence purely for their own cynical ends.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
[quote="ephemerid"]For anyone interested - this is my recipe for the slightly-but-not-very-low-fat delight mentioned above.
I am a bung-it-in sort of cook, so quantities are a bit vague.......
1 jar (or about 300ml) lemon curd; about the same quantity of low-fat Greek-style yogurt; 300ml double cream, whipped to soft peaks;
2 teaspoon-sized pieces of stem ginger, chopped; 6 ordinary ginger biscuits, crushed but with some big bits; 4 of those little meringue nests they sell in supermarkets, or the homemade equivalent, broken into bits.
Swirl together the curd, yogurt, cream, and stem ginger; add the crunchy stuff and mix it evenly throughout. Freeze, and take it out every half-hour or so and give it a little stir to stop too many ice crystals from forming.
For people like me on limited fat diets, this a nice treat - not as rich as real ice-cream but you wouldn't know it from the taste.
Much easier and even better for you - just have the yogurt, add a chopped mango, and bung in some raspberry coulis. Gorgeous.
Thanks for the recipe, my other half loves lemon curd so it will be a treat for him. And me.
Might try it with Yeo Valley half fat creme fraiche, that tastes naughty but is not too high in fat.
Shame that so many liberals like him have been so gutless in challenging all this recently.
More interested in slagging off the Labour party and its leader. This is their shame too.
Totally agree with you Anatoly.
When I read it I wanted to shake Freedland until his teeth rattled.
Here we have Jeremy Corbyn,a new Labour leader,a good man who is quiet,considerate and peaceful.
The media have done nothing but try to ruin him.Including Mr Freedland.All doing their bit of injecting poison if you ask me.
ohsocynical wrote:Reading some of the Tweets about Jo's killer, I have suddenly wondered.
Should we perhaps be using 'vulnerable' rather than mentally ill?
According to the G,searchers found Nazi 'regalia' and far right materials in Mairs' house,some of it going back to the late 1990s.
Don't like to disagree with you Mrs Ohso,but I wouldn't call someone who is basically a neo nazi,and who apparently lay in wait for and deliberately murdered an unarmed woman 'vulnerable'.
Anyway,all ghastly.
How's Mr Ohso getting on?
Vulnerable to suggestion? I just remember when I was severely depressed I couldn't lift a finger in anger or happiness. I came to a complete stop a few times.
I know there are all different sorts of mental illness, but he was on a functioning level.
Mr Ohso is beginning to feel the effects of the treatment. He has had five weeks. Next Friday is the last day. Then the following week into hospital for - hopefully - just a few hours to remove the catheter and check he's got no long term damage and will be able to wee properly again. Around the end of July they will do scans and see if the radiotherapy has worked ... Nail biting times. Then they'll start seeing to the one on his lung. It's not moving at present but it'll need seeing to.
It's almost a year to the day since he was alerted to the cancer. It feels a lot longer.
You poor things.
Hoping so much that the treatment has worked.
My sister has just been diagnosed with breast cancer,found very late indeed.My soul is chilled to the bone,if that's possible.
It was reported yesterday that he purchased it in the 1990's.
So in that period of time he hadn't thought to destroy it, he seems to have kept the hatred brewing, feeding it with titbits of right wing propaganda.
We will have to wait until the trial to find out just what his political links were in the sense of whether he associated with any British group. I still find it repellent that Britain First are ramping up their training to include survival camps. I checked the photos of the attendees in Snowdonia last week, none looked exactly like Mair. But we can only imagine what might happen when a group of right wing brainless idiots get together and play soldier. Lord knows what ideas they discussed.
The thing that made me chuckle was the pics they'd taken of their food supplies for the Snowdonia camp. The Storm-troopers of the British Reich scoffed Pringles, white bread, Pot Noodles and sausages. Not exactly Ray Mears style foraging amongst nature's bounty
I hope they packed some laxatives too, they'd be bound up with a crap diet like that.
This horrible attack has left me feeling very subdued - very quiet and reflective. I haven't wanted to say much about any aspect of it. I think it will take me a fair while to arrive at any kind of understanding or ability to deal with it.
The thing that has most upset me today is hearing Cameron speaking in Birstall about the values and principles of Jo Cox and how we should reject hatred. I'm finding it hard (very hard) to reconcile this statement with the man who called Sadiq Khan a threat to national security because he consorted with people who supported ISIS - and this in the HoC - and who has presided over Fallon calling Ed Miliband a threat to national security - and also, of course, the many similar statements made by himself and other Tories about Corbyn. Corbyn is not patriotic because he doesn't bow low enough. Ed Miliband couldn't be patriotic because his father hated Britain .... There has been a constant strategy / campaign by Cameron to make Labour politicians and the party out to be friends of terrorists and threats to national security. To hear him today .... sickening.
People will probably disagree with me, but I don't think Cameron is all bad.
I think there are some shreds of decency, and he is a genuinely loving husband and father.
Sometimes he gets it right, and yesterday he was obviously moved and genuine about the terrible events of the day. But then he sort of reverts to Tory type.
Puts me in mind of the Aldous Huxley quote - “The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human.”
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
