Monday 20th June 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 7:16 am

Morning.

Baroness Warsi has switched to Remain. She is expressing her disgust at the racist poster and xenophobia amongst the Leave campaign. Also that Gove is telling complete lies about Turkey.

Cue bitchy comments about her from the official leave campaign. Tin foil hat comments from the CyberBrexit brigade about her being a sleeper who was in place to defect to Remain late in the day.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 7:17 am

We may get the answer to this on Friday.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 7:38 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Baroness Warsi has switched to Remain. She is expressing her disgust at the racist poster and xenophobia amongst the Leave campaign. Also that Gove is telling complete lies about Turkey.

Cue bitchy comments about her from the official leave campaign. Tin foil hat comments from the CyberBrexit brigade about her being a sleeper who was in place to defect to Remain late in the day.

You appear to be having fun over there.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 7:48 am

It's the only way I can stay sane. If they behave like kids, treat them the same way.

I would rather do something more life enhancing but I am spending my time reporting sick Brexiteer posts. So far this morning there has been a sick 'false flag' post about Jo's murder.
Yesterday one charmer who ranted about immigration called her 'Yorkshire's very own Forest Gump'.

I'm left wondering...are there really that many people out there who are on the edge of personality disorder with extreme views or is there just a small group that are very vocal on social media ?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:03 am

Morning all.

And...it's raining again,

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:05 am

I think you can safely say that things are back to normal after last week's tragic event...

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:14 am

This week I will mostly be sticking cotton wool in my ears and burying my head under a pillow. I can't stand it anymore.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:22 am

It is worse than a general election campaign. It feels like something out of Lord of the Rings.
The orcs are massing, where are the elves ?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:23 am

Best wishes to @seeingclearly if you can read this. Hope you are ok.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:28 am

John Oliver on Brexit

[youtube]iAgKHSNqxa8[/youtube]

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:40 am

I want to say thank you to everyone here for helping to keep me sane. (Well, as sane as I can ever be,,,,)

I know we don't all agree on the referendum, the by-election, and other things - but people here are civilised and kind.

I've kept away from the G and my usual haunts; there are some very strange, ignorant, and downright nasty people out there lately.
I'll probably have a little foray there today; but I have been appalled at some of the stupidity and vitriol recent events have spawned.

There are some good reasons for voting Brexit; there are some good reasons for voting Remain. Whatever people decide, I respect their view if they have come to it by dint of reason - but I'm not seeing much of that outside this forum, unfortunately.

One thing that is worrying me - as we appear to have no actual government while these shenanigans stagger on, I am wondering what the Tories are up to under the radar. They have form for sneaking in stuff when our attention is directed elsewhere.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:55 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
refitman wrote:
yahyah wrote:Morning.

Baroness Warsi has switched to Remain. She is expressing her disgust at the racist poster and xenophobia amongst the Leave campaign. Also that Gove is telling complete lies about Turkey.

Cue bitchy comments about her from the official leave campaign. Tin foil hat comments from the CyberBrexit brigade about her being a sleeper who was in place to defect to Remain late in the day.
You appear to be having fun over there.
I'm a bit surprised to hear she wasn't already a remainer.

Yes - I had to check which side she'd left and which she'd joined.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:55 am

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 8:56 am

Morning

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... psa-cheese" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice 23/16 - Private Storage Aid (PSA): cheese

This notice is an update of the current situation with regard to the Private Storage Aid scheme arrangements for Cheese.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 9:01 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... psa-cheese" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice 23/16 - Private Storage Aid (PSA): cheese

This notice is an update of the current situation with regard to the Private Storage Aid scheme arrangements for Cheese.

About time. I've been on tenterhooks.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 9:05 am

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/jun ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Steep court fee rises are tax on justice, say MPs

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 9:06 am

I realise I am becoming increasingly guilty of only reading things which I agree with but I enjoyed this article.

https://theconversation.com/left-winger ... o-do-61259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Particularly liked 'Schröder's immigrant who lazes around on benefits while simultaneously stealing jobs'.
There is a link to a cartoon of it which I also liked.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 9:08 am

Sure is rainin' here.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 9:18 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... psa-cheese" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice 23/16 - Private Storage Aid (PSA): cheese

This notice is an update of the current situation with regard to the Private Storage Aid scheme arrangements for Cheese.

Applications have been received amounting to the total quantity allocated to the UK. Therefore the scheme is now closed to further applications.

What, not even Wensleydale?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 9:58 am

MP's are wearing White Roses today as a mark of respect for Jo.

: white_rose.jpg (91.96 KiB) Viewed 9368 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 9:59 am

Pound and shares soar as Notice 23/16 - Private Storage Aid (PSA): cheese is issued – business live

Or something.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:06 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... to-comment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Open consultation
Open access restriction at Wilton 3 Quarry: how to comment

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:07 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nspections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guidance
Deferring Ofsted inspections

Guidance
Inspecting childminding agencies: guidance for inspectors

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:14 am

The late unlamented Esther McVey popped up on the news channels last night, and duly spun the "Cox died because some people on social media were rude to MPs and journalists" yarn.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:24 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/jun ... SApp_Other

Steep court fee rises are tax on justice, say MPs

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-16-17/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Henry 2 sorted this out in the 1150's
He understood consistent, fair access to legal procedure was the bedrock of civilised society

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:24 am

Good-morning, everyone.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:25 am

Game theory, maths and the EU referendum
by Tim Gowers
http://infacts.org/prisoners-dilemma-of ... eferendum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why do 92% of UK fishermen want to leave the EU? Because they want to overfish while the rest of the EU agrees to quotas. Why does farming minister George Eustice want to leave the EU? Because he wants to be free of the EU’s birds and habitat directive while the rest of the EU’s farmers spend money looking after their birds and wildlife habitats.

Can we trust our government not to succumb to these kinds of agreement-breaking temptations if it is free to do so? No, which is why in areas where international cooperation is needed, international organisations such as NATO, the World Trade Organisation and the EU are needed to enforce it.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:28 am

I try not to hate but I'm failing with Nigel Farage.

I hate him and I hate the way the press seem to love him. The oxygen of publicity.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:32 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Baroness Warsi has switched to Remain. She is expressing her disgust at the racist poster and xenophobia amongst the Leave campaign. Also that Gove is telling complete lies about Turkey.

Cue bitchy comments about her from the official leave campaign. Tin foil hat comments from the CyberBrexit brigade about her being a sleeper who was in place to defect to Remain late in the day.

The editor of the Sun claimed on Twitter that he had no idea she had ever been for Brexit.

Cue people citing reports from his very own "newspaper" saying exactly that

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 10:56 am

Farage said this a month ago.

Nigel Farage has said violence on the streets could be the “next step” if immigration is not controlled.

“It’s legitimate to say that if people feel they’ve lost control completely, and we have lost control of our borders completely as
members of the EU, and if people feel voting doesn’t change anything, then violence is the next step,” he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/n ... 8a838b8c9c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Farage said this a half hour ago.

...the Remain campaign trying to conflate the actions of one crazed individuals with the motives of half of Britain who think
we should get back control of our borders and do it sensibly. And I think that’s quite wrong the way it’s been done ...

I think there are Remain camp supporters out there who are using this tragic death to try to give the impression that this
isolated, horrific incident is somehow linked to arguments that have been made by myself, or Michael Gove or anybody else
in this campaign. And frankly that is wrong.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... 3be8716be2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 11:05 am

I don't often read the slew of news Farage is in because I don't like his work. I can't believe Farage has had the audacity to open his mouth
and say what he's saying today after all the documentation available clearly showing the world where hate and division comes from. His
own words said less than a month ago repeating years of the same messages.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 11:08 am

citizenJA wrote:I don't often read the slew of news Farage is in because I don't like his work. I can't believe Farage has had the audacity to open his mouth
and say what he's saying today after all the documentation available clearly showing the world where hate and division comes from. His
own words said less than a month ago repeating years of the same messages.

Cut and pasted elsewhere.
Unless the media call him out on that it'll slide.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 11:13 am

The HoC returns today for tributes to Jo Cox.

Hopefully not too mawkish or insincere, and hopefully not many trying to deflect responsibility for her murder from where it actually belongs.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 11:14 am

tinybgoat wrote:
HindleA wrote:Morning

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... psa-cheese" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice 23/16 - Private Storage Aid (PSA): cheese

This notice is an update of the current situation with regard to the Private Storage Aid scheme arrangements for Cheese.

Applications have been received amounting to the total quantity allocated to the UK. Therefore the scheme is now closed to further applications.
What, not even Wensleydale?

Arthur Wensleydale ?

[youtube]uT3OQECSDoQ[/youtube]

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 11:15 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/el ... sults-come" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What to look out for as the European referendum results come in
Your hour-by-hour guide.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 11:45 am

RobertSnozers wrote: So what happens if we leave, and the EU makes us abide by the rules anyway in return for access to the single market?

The 'it's in their interests to give us a good deal' argument sounds like one hell of a gamble with national prosperity.

I might have missed it but have Leave actually come out and said what the preferred option for trading relationship is or have they left it to "let's wait and see what we can get"?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 11:48 am

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 76031.html
EU referendum: Premier League bosses come out against quitting the EU

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 11:51 am

I used to jest about having to build an extension specifically for hair/skin products,I have enough left for some years yet.Not too sure about the deep cherry red permanent hair colour as yet.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
HindleA wrote:Morning

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... psa-cheese" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice 23/16 - Private Storage Aid (PSA): cheese

This notice is an update of the current situation with regard to the Private Storage Aid scheme arrangements for Cheese.

Applications have been received amounting to the total quantity allocated to the UK. Therefore the scheme is now closed to further applications.
What, not even Wensleydale?

Some cheesy comments on here today...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm

Jane East ‏@Jane_East2002 44m44 minutes ago
Refugee Week: Seven myths about asylum seekers busted http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yor ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Well done the Examiner, Jo would be proud of you!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:09 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The HoC returns today for tributes to Jo Cox.

Hopefully not too mawkish or insincere, and hopefully not many trying to deflect responsibility for her murder from where it actually belongs.

Indeed Anatoly. Any more tributes like Cameron's hypocritical effort are best avoided IMO.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:17 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: So what happens if we leave, and the EU makes us abide by the rules anyway in return for access to the single market?

The 'it's in their interests to give us a good deal' argument sounds like one hell of a gamble with national prosperity.
I might have missed it but have Leave actually come out and said what the preferred option for trading relationship is or have they left it to "let's wait and see what we can get"?

Think it's still, wait & see,
but with the carrot of being able to get a better deal than we have now, whatever that means.
I wouldn't have thought EU rules would allow us to have a better deal than other countries as it would undermine the reason for common market,
so the best we could hope for would be the same conditions but no say in making the rules.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:18 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: So what happens if we leave, and the EU makes us abide by the rules anyway in return for access to the single market?

The 'it's in their interests to give us a good deal' argument sounds like one hell of a gamble with national prosperity.
I might have missed it but have Leave actually come out and said what the preferred option for trading relationship is or have they left it to "let's wait and see what we can get"?
I don't know what the official position is, but I've heard both Farage and Gove talk about negotiating a trade deal with the EU, in which they would have to give us favourable terms because they sell so much stuff to us. I got the impression (though they didn't come straight out and say it) that they were trying to suggest that the UK would get free access to the single market, not have to accept free movement of people, and not have to accept EU rules.

Of course they won't - it would be the end of the EU wouldn't it? What's the point of a club if you don't have to be a member to benefit?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:22 pm

Wensleydale and Marmite together is one of my favourite sandwiches, Caerphilly & Marmite too. None of that Lancashire rubbish though, coming here over the Pennines taking all our fromage grumeleux recipes.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:25 pm

Have just scoffed my Marmite & toast.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:32 pm

With breathtaking timing the Office of National Statistics will release on Thursday morning their annual mid-year population estimates. These usually provoke headlines such as UK population grows by half a million fuelled by migration.

The timing is actually 12 months after last year’s figures were published and was announced long in advance before the referendum was called.

Cameron has a free choice of date and chooses the day the population figures come out?

Either he's outstandingly incompetent (a distinct possibility) or of dubious sincerity about supporting remain (equally plausible).

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... x#comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 12:50 pm

I think he is "sincerely pro remain" now, given that is his only chance of holding onto his job

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 1:00 pm

Mike Smithson says 'on the basis of publicly available data I would not bet on Remain at current odds'.

? Does he mean the return on a Remain win isn't worth it ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 1:01 pm

We have just had a call from the housing association. They have a property that's going to be viewed on Tuesday. If the person doesn't want it, we have first refusal. If she takes it, that means we then go to the top of the list. It means we won't have that long to wait.
I have just rung the guy who did some plumbing for us last year who'd said he was looking for a maisonette. We agreed he'd get first refusal when we wanted to sell. He's still interested which takes a huge weight off my mind. No estate agents or viewings - Phew.

Cupboard sorting must start now. I've been hoarding cardboard boxes for the last year!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 20 Jun, 2016 1:02 pm

Fingers crossed OhSo.