Tuesday 21st Jun 2016

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 6:09 am

Morning all.

In the pursuit of balance - Cats for Brexit.

https://twitter.com/search?q=cats%20for ... t&src=typd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 6:21 am

Interesting article by a social scientist that may help Remainers empathise with some who want Brexit.
I say some, because it must be hard to argue that leftist Brexit voters feel nostalgia, it seems more of a dream of what could happen in the future.

''Instead of assuming the nostalgia peddle by the Leave camapigners is malicious or manupulative, I posit that it may be the result of false memory.''
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/as- ... 91121.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 6:32 am

Last night's YouGov poll obviously didn't ask enough cute cats.
Leave at 2% lead.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 6:48 am

Morning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36424548" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Homes 'too expensive' for Help to Buy Isa scheme

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 8:56 am

Good morning yahyah, HndleA, and all.

Bookies have Remain on 70-odd%. A Mr.Soros (who knows a thing or three about currencies) opines that Brexit would be a disaster for the pound.

With just two days to go before this country decides whether to stay or go, I am still waiting for the Brexiteers to offer their exit plan - beyond the fantasy nonsense of getting our country back etc. and how they'd spend £350 Million a week on the NHS etc.
I'm also waiting for the Remain group to say something positive about what they will be doing in the event of either Remain or Leave - all they have offered so far is alarm and despondency, and the spectre of OGRPPFGTCC staying on for some time......

The singing last night was wonderful. Until Show joined in. He labours under the misapprehension that, being Welsh, he can sing. He really can't.

I don't like football. It's really really boring. But the singing was great - and I am glad that the Russians lost after the antics of their supporters.

minch · Post by **minch** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:06 am

Given that the Leave camp still state we pay £350M a week into the EU (ignoring what we get back), perhaps the Remain camp should state that the EU gives the UK £180M a week (ignoring what we contribute).

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:10 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36424548" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Homes 'too expensive' for Help to Buy Isa scheme

Thanks for this, A - I had a go on the little tool thingie.

Although this scheme is available in Wales, the BBC hasn't included any Welsh towns on it's tool thingie. I tried several.

Still, our hovels are sooo cheap here, aren't they? 2-bed flats and terraces average about £200,000, so they'd qualify for the scheme; but if you need a 3-bed you might be out of luck.
The Help To Buy ISA has a maximum of £3,000 of cash from the government - so you have to save £12,000 yourself to get that £3,000.
That's not easy if you're renting, is it?

It's all a bit Meh.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:16 am

YAY!!!!!!

David Beckham is supporting Remain.

Oh, the relief! I was, like, so worried he'd say nothing.

Now that Daddy Cool has opted to stay, the entire UK will now know what to do.

All we need now is for someone less important, I dunno, the Queen, say, to back Remain as well and we're cookin' on gas!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:19 am

There are also questionable shenanigans involved.16% of purchasers are on HB,which isn't necessarily fraud but a "red flag";these are concentrated in a few areas.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:25 am

HindleA wrote:There are also questionable shenanigans involved.16% of purchasers are on HB,which isn't necessarily fraud but a "red flag";these are concentrated in a few areas.

OK.
So if you rent and get HB/LHA, you can't claim at all if you have more than £16,000 in savings, and if you have more than £6,000 it affects how much HB you can claim. It would take a bit of finagling to have one of these ISAs but it could be done.
Ho hum.

I have come to the conclusion that if Kim Kardashian comes out for Remain we'll stay in. I'm going to Tweet her right now.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:28 am

Morning everybody.
Meanwhile Steve Hilton provides the Leave campaign with tomorrow's front page in the Express:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -years-ago" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:31 am

Morning all.

I'm starting to get a bit cheesed off with the Liverpool Super Mayor emails and phone calls, now isn't really the time for this distraction.
On a positive, the weather forecast is looking good for Thursday.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:34 am

ephemerid wrote:YAY!!!!!!

David Beckham is supporting Remain.

Oh, the relief! I was, like, so worried he'd say nothing.

Now that Daddy Cool has opted to stay, the entire UK will now know what to do.

All we need now is for someone less important, I dunno, the Queen, say, to back Remain as well and we're cookin' on gas!

It is a pretty good message. Positive and personal.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 9:37 am

danesclose wrote:Morning everybody.
Meanwhile Steve Hilton provides the Leave campaign with tomorrow's front page in the Express:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -years-ago" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was front page of the Mail this morning.

If political journalists hadn't figured this out before then they're really dim. But of course they did long ago but found it expedient to keep attacking Labour over immigration and pretend that Cameron had everything under control.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:01 am

Good-morning, everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:01 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... s-bulletin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK government borrowing higher than expected in May

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:09 am

Adele Barnett-Ward
June 18 ·

UKIP out campaigning in Caversham [Reading] just now. We had the following conversation:

Me: Excuse me, why aren't UKIP observing the suspension of campaigning?
Them: What's that?
Me: Both the Leave and Remain campaigns are suspended as a mark of respect to Jo Cox.
One on the left: 'Oh, we're not campaigning, dear.'
Me: You are standing next to a UKIP truck...
One on the right: [Interrupts me, leans on truck, exaggerated fake innocence] Is this a UKIP truck?
Me... Holding UKIP leaflets, but you claim that's not campaigning?
Left: Don't get excited, dear.
Me: [Walking away] I'm disappointed in you, but not surprised.
Left: [Mockingly] Don't get over-excited, dear.
Me: Poisonous.

I've made this post public. Please share it if you want to show what sort of country UKIP want back - one with no respect for a murdered politician, one where you can lie about what you're doing, and one where you can speak demeaningly and mockingly to someone who challenges you on the above. Like I said, poisonous.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:15 am

We can all stop worrying .
Boris says if brexit causes a recession he will apologise to everyone.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:16 am

Q: Should George Osborne stay as chancellor, if we vote Remain or Leave.

Of course, says Johnson.

He says if we vote Leave, “all the fear will stop - people will realise it was all nonsense”. (Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)

Ah - the old "Bobby Ewing in the shower" routine.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:16 am

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/j ... away-at-me" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BBC's Caroline Wyatt on MS: I don't want bitterness to eat away at me

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:20 am

PorFavor wrote:

Q: Should George Osborne stay as chancellor, if we vote Remain or Leave.

Of course, says Johnson.

He says if we vote Leave, “all the fear will stop - people will realise it was all nonsense”. (Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)
Ah - the old "Bobby Ewing in the shower" routine.

I've just made the point over there that if Osborne is still Chancellor then all of Leave's promising on spending are simply not achievable.* How could they force him to spend £100m a week extra on the NHS?

* And yea I know we knew that before because the numbers were nonsense...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:39 am

Tom Newton DunnVerified account
‏@tnewtondunn
Gove hints he may resign from the Govt on Friday if UK votes Remain; "I will reflect and decide what is the best course for me" #r4today

Think he knows he'd be sacked anyway...

If remain wins then the knives will be out of the drawer ready to be sharpened. Mordaunt can go too for her ridiculous "PM hasn't got a veto over Turkey" nonsense.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:42 am

Blogger Another Angry Voice on Facebook made this perceptive observation.

In this article I address the way the EU referendum debate has descended into the gutter.
It's worth noting why it ended up this way. The main reason is David Cameron's decision to rush the referendum as quickly as possible. Presumably he was thinking back to the long drawn-out debate heavy Scottish independence referendum where Yes came mightily close to winning against the odds.

I guess he imagined that a short-sharp referendum wouldn't give the official Brexit campaign a chance to build momentum, but in reality the hurried, fact-free, scaremongering tone of the debate has played right into their hands.

Other articles he's written about the Referendum have been inundated with ill informed comments from Brexiteers.

..... It's clear that the all-too-hasty EU referendum has descended into an ill-informed tribalistic farce, made all the worse by anti-intellectual interventions from the likes of Michael Gove, who actually said that "people in this country have had enough of experts" when challenged to name some economic experts who support Brexit.

Fortunately Jeremy Corbyn has had the wit to avoid allying himself closely with Cameron and Osborne, or sticking up for them when they're talking scaremongering rubbish or making threats of even more ideological austerity to punish people for voting Brexit. He's smart enough to realise that you can be on the same side of the debate as someone, without having to defend every shitty argument they put forward.

It's just a shame that some of the Brexit tribalists on the Another Angry Voice Facebook page haven't come to the same realisation, because the standard of debate is going to remain pretty damned low if, when they see one of their fellow Brexiters floundering about making an absolute tit of themselves, people decide to put up a hostile barrage of insults and criticism in their defence, rather than asking their tribal brethren to up their game and actually improve the standard of their arguments.

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk ... ingly.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:44 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Tom Newton DunnVerified account
‏@tnewtondunn
Gove hints he may resign from the Govt on Friday if UK votes Remain; "I will reflect and decide what is the best course for me" #r4today

Think he knows he'd be sacked anyway...

If remain wins then the knives will be out of the drawer ready to be sharpened. Mordaunt can go too for her ridiculous "PM hasn't got a veto over Turkey" nonsense.

I wonder if Johnson is preparing for this with his slight distancing from Farage's antics.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 10:57 am

The appeal fund set up in memory of Jo Cox has already raised over £1 million.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:09 am

Especially if you think "she deserved it anyway" - a sentiment which has been heard......

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:19 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Tom Newton DunnVerified account
‏@tnewtondunn
Gove hints he may resign from the Govt on Friday if UK votes Remain; "I will reflect and decide what is the best course for me" #r4today

Think he knows he'd be sacked anyway...

If remain wins then the knives will be out of the drawer ready to be sharpened. Mordaunt can go too for her ridiculous "PM hasn't got a veto over Turkey" nonsense.

Mildly satisfying to know that whatever the outcome, one or two politicians are going to have an uncomfortable time come Friday.

Edited because I haven't got my glasses on.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:20 am

Come what may, half the country are going to be very cross on Friday. Hope they rightly blame TCC for his ridiculous referendum. Man's a twat.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:21 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The appeal fund set up in memory of Jo Cox has already raised over £1 million.

It's at £1,117,528. At present.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:27 am

Although I woke this morning scared witless and with my heart located somewhere near my toes at the thought of copimg with moving, I'm also thankful because it's going to be a distraction from the most depressing, worrying political period I can remember. And that includes 2015 GE...

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:28 am

Regardless of the outcome, the one person in particular who I would like to hear an apology from is Cameron, for creating this unholy mess in the first place.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:31 am

StephenDolan wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Tom Newton DunnVerified account
‏@tnewtondunn
Gove hints he may resign from the Govt on Friday if UK votes Remain; "I will reflect and decide what is the best course for me" #r4today

Think he knows he'd be sacked anyway...

If remain wins then the knives will be out of the drawer ready to be sharpened. Mordaunt can go too for her ridiculous "PM hasn't got a veto over Turkey" nonsense.
I wonder if Johnson is preparing for this with his slight distancing from Farage's antics.

There's going to be a lot of screeching, protesting and jostling for position as they go for each others throats.

'It wasn't my fault. It wasn't a fair contest,' and 'I'm not going anywhere!'

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:37 am

Tory HQ several months ago -:

"Dave ! Dave! come quick - there is a fire outside started by that Nigel bloke, the country is going to burn down what shall we do?"

"Throw some petrol on it and fan the flames, that should do the trick"

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:41 am

Jeremy Vine, coming up on radio 2, discussion on whether a crash might not be a good thing, ironically young people are more likely to vote in, but it might be in their interest for brexit to cause crash & house prices & other assets to fall in value.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:49 am

'Corbyn says that a vote to leave the EU would embolden Nigel Farage and those who support the “disgusting” poster that he produced.

He says prejudice, nastiness and racism never built a house, taught a child or trained a doctor.'

Boom! Glad to see Corbyn tackling this head on.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 11:53 am

ephemerid wrote:
HindleA wrote:There are also questionable shenanigans involved.16% of purchasers are on HB,which isn't necessarily fraud but a "red flag";these are concentrated in a few areas.

OK.
So if you rent and get HB/LHA, you can't claim at all if you have more than £16,000 in savings, and if you have more than £6,000 it affects how much HB you can claim. It would take a bit of finagling to have one of these ISAs but it could be done.
Ho hum.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wJt ... ef=2&pli=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A sale to a tenant on housing benefit does not prove fraud, but has been described as a “red flag”. This is because to gain a mortgage, someone else would have to be providing the funds.

Giles Peaker, a partner at Anthony Gold solicitors, said he had come across cases where companies provide funds for a tenant to carry out Right to Buy. But after the company took control of the property, the tenant was evicted.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 12:10 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Tory HQ several months ago -:

"Dave ! Dave! come quick - there is a fire outside started by that Nigel bloke, the country is going to burn down what shall we do?"

"Throw some petrol on it and fan the flames, that should do the trick"

You sure it wasn't Maude answering? Or whispering in Dave's ear?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 12:19 pm

Asda CEO : ''delusional to think supply chains can be rebuilt over a couple of years''
''The Leave campaign have dismissed the warning.''

Am not a fan of Asda's way of doing things, but he must know a thing or two about stock operations management.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 12:27 pm

yahyah wrote: ''The Leave campaign have dismissed the warning''

And that's their modus vivendi innit? "Everybody who disagrees with us has a vested interest, just trust us and everything will be wonderful"

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 12:40 pm

Treason.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw3S ... section/II" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well I found it interesting.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 12:41 pm

Or ''are funded or controlled by Goldman Sachs.''

The anti-semite brigade always used the Rothschilds to stand in for anti-Jewish feeling.
I get the impression Goldman Sachs is a 2016 version of that.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 12:50 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Treason.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw3S ... section/II" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well I found it interesting.

There'd have been a fair old bit of hanging, drawing and quartering going on if Henry VIII was still on the throne.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 1:09 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/careers/2016 ... ce-careers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Privatisation is hurting the social care workforce
Peter Beresford

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 1:13 pm

I wish RR would pop in.

Hope she is ok, and I would genuinely like to hear her views, and Mr RR's, on just why Brexit would work out well.

If they win on Thursday it is going to be something we'll have to try and work with whatever.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 1:17 pm

I'm a bit concerned that, in the event of an "In" result, there might be social unrest\reprisals (on the part of emboldened extreme right-wing "Outers"). Especially if the vote is close.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 1:18 pm

: 5472.jpg (23.18 KiB) Viewed 7805 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 1:18 pm

yahyah wrote:I wish RR would pop in.

Hope she is ok, and I would genuinely like to hear her views, and Mr RR's, on just why Brexit would work out well.

If they win on Thursday it is going to be something we'll have to try and work with whatever.

rebeccariots2 been very much in my thoughts, too.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 1:23 pm

yahyah wrote:Or ''are funded or controlled by Goldman Sachs.''

The anti-semite brigade always used the Rothschilds to stand in for anti-Jewish feeling.
I get the impression Goldman Sachs is a 2016 version of that.

Other financial backers of the remain campaign include Citigroup and Morgan Stanley - also American, also bankers, yet only Goldman Sachs appears to be referenced as a bogeyman by the Brexiters as far as I can tell.

While the investment banks are mostly pro-EU, the main backers for leave in the world of finance tend to be hedge fund bosses. Post 2008 crash, many regulations brought in by the EU to prevent a repeat have hit the profits of hedge funds. Brexiters may not be controlled by hedge fund bosses, but their campaign is funded by them, so glasshouses and stones spring to mind.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 08496.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 1:36 pm

Stewart jackson vs Oliver Heald...oh dear...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 21 Jun, 2016 1:42 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Stewart jackson vs Oliver Heald...oh dear...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes. Pitching for the Paulsgrove vote, apparently.