Friday 24th June 2016

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 9:51 am

We're a representative democracy. Had our elected representatives been asked to vote on this on our behalves they would have voted Remain.

Instead we have this. What a mess.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 9:52 am

European funding for arts (Guaridan live)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 9:53 am

"The cabinet will meet on Monday."

lazy loafer
International relationship torn asunder and Dave's getting a facial

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 9:53 am

So they turned out to be not so disgusted after all?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:00 am

this country and people are vast, far and wide, different within regions geographically small
for millennia

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:00 am

> 74,000 signatures

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:01 am

yahyah wrote:My husband is literally shaking with tension and anger, not like him at all.

Sounds exactly like me. Work is easier because my main colleague feels exactly the same, even if the boss is a Leaver.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:03 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:We're a representative democracy. Had our elected representatives been asked to vote on this on our behalves they would have voted Remain.

Instead we have this. What a mess.

Exactly. It - he - is literally unforgivable.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:03 am

Good grief, Nicky Morgan is considering a bid for the leadership.

Laura McInerney made the point that bugger all will happen in education over the next three months while this is going on so any chance that fairer funding will come in by next April has pretty much gone. School leaders and GBs will not be happy.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:05 am

David Cameron is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very stupid man.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:06 am

yahyah wrote:
PorFavor wrote:If there's likely to be a general election in the near future, maybe now is the time for Labour to think about its leadership.

We've decided we will resign our membership.
It is too much heartache, investing in voting then watching it trashed by the PLP.

I did that a while ago. I don't regret it. I can't belong to a party whose upper echelons are so removed from the grassroots.

This is not Corbyn's fault. He was and is right to be sceptical and to want EU reform; he was also right not to give whole-hearted support to Cameron after what happened after the IndyRef - within hours of the result, Cameron shafted the Labour people who saved his bacon then went on to renege on every promise he had them make for him. Corbyn is not the problem - he's not perfect, but then who is?

Cameron gambled with the future prosperity and security of my country for personal kudos and electoral edge. He lost, and the country he claims to care about so much will suffer the consequences of his vanity for some time to come. That's his "legacy", and for a man who wanted to be PM because he thought he'd be "rather good at it" he is an utter failure in all ways, not just this.

I expect May or Hammond to take over. Tories are good at pulling together, and they'll want/need a safe pair of hands now.
I want Osborne to go, but somehow I doubt that his vanity will allow him to resign. Hopefully he'll be hounded out of office.

What really bothers me now is what happens next. Johnson is a hard right politician under his bumbling persona. We all know this.
Incompetents like Gove, Grayling, IDS, Patel, and some of the other Tory Brexit supporters are waiting in the wings for another go at the top jobs, and whatever Cameron (or the party grandees) does now this could be a real mess - with four more years of it.

Even worse - the rise of Farage and his stormtroopers and associated hangers-on is inevitable. Whilst I appreciate that many people voted Leave for good reasons, reasons they believe in, there s a significant cohort of racist Little Englanders who will capitalise on this and that is not something I look forward to.
God help us all if they don't get what they think this vote has secured for them - and of course, not a lot will change straight away. On top of that, Brexit won by a tiny margin; there will be a lot of angry people out there.

Show is seriously considering taking his savings out of the bank and putting them under the mattress, cancelling all the direct debits going to utility companies owned by European countries, and battening down the hatches for what he thinks will be a disaster.
Maybe he's right. I don't know. But the financial sector is certainly jittery.

Pace the Riots household and those who had good reasons for voting out - but personally, I was not sufficiently convinced that leaving was the right thing to do, even though some of the arguments for leaving were reasonable. The problem for me is that the Brexit leaders, the likes of Boris and Farage, are not reasonable people. If they had been, I might have had more sympathy for Leave.

As it is, I'm gutted. And not a little bit scared.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:10 am

There was an FT column the other day which I'll see if I can find about the probability of the government creating a Brexit department to deal with the whole issue of unwinding everything.

I really can't imagine who would head it up since most of the Tory Brexiters are incompetent at running departments - senior civil servant?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:14 am

> 76,000

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:15 am

Trump flies into Scotland to praise the UK leaving the EU. Sure, he bought the patch he praised on. But Scotland. The country that didn't vote to leave the EU. How does Scotland feel about that?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:18 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/carolin ... 0580.html?

Caroline Lucas - proportional voting system a priority

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:18 am

The only sensible person in charge of this country right now is a ruddy Canadian. This is so embarrassing.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:21 am

No,it is not Corbyns fault.
He told the truth.In fact,my brexit leaning son changed his mind because of Corbyn,said he was the only politician who was being honest.
We need him more than ever now,imo,not some bloody blairite to nod through whatever ravages the tories will be heaping on the country.
This is a monumental disaster.
Of course,Cameron will walk away scot free.
But the only people to blame are the ones who wanted this to happen.Voted to leave,ignoring every warning of what would happen,and which has started already.
We all had a choice,sadly just over half have decided to damage everybody.And they did this with full knowledge of the risks,we can't blame a handful of politicians.
This is a bad day,the end of a bad week.My mum died on Tuesday,my sister is waiting to find out which combination of mastectomy/chemotherapy/palliative care she will need.
This is all shit.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:22 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/carolin ... 0580.html?

Caroline Lucas - proportional voting system a priority

Yep. Good article from Lucas. Thanks for linking it.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:25 am

Rebecca wrote:No,it is not Corbyns fault.
He told the truth.In fact,my brexit leaning son changed his mind because of Corbyn,said he was the only politician who was being honest.
We need him more than ever now,imo,not some bloody blairite to nod through whatever ravages the tories will be heaping on the country.
This is a monumental disaster.
Of course,Cameron will walk away scot free.
But the only people to blame are the ones who wanted this to happen.Voted to leave,ignoring every warning of what would happen,and which has started already.
We all had a choice,sadly just over half have decided to damage everybody.And they did this with full knowledge of the risks,we can't blame a handful of politicians.
This is a bad day,the end of a bad week.My mum died on Tuesday,my sister is waiting to find out which combination of mastectomy/chemotherapy/palliative care she will need.
This is all shit.

I'm so sorry about this Rebecca. I can only offer my heartfelt sympathy.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:27 am

So the switch by Brexit to talking about immigration and how bad it it is turns out to be a massive con? I'm shocked...

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:27 am

I saw the outcome at 5am and went back to bed.

I don't know what to say. It's chaos and will be for the foreseeable future.

It's not Corbyn's fault. Please can we wait until there's some suitable, outstanding candidates?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:28 am

Rebecca wrote:No,it is not Corbyns fault.
He told the truth.In fact,my brexit leaning son changed his mind because of Corbyn,said he was the only politician who was being honest.
We need him more than ever now,imo,not some bloody blairite to nod through whatever ravages the tories will be heaping on the country.
This is a monumental disaster.
Of course,Cameron will walk away scot free.
But the only people to blame are the ones who wanted this to happen.Voted to leave,ignoring every warning of what would happen,and which has started already.
We all had a choice,sadly just over half have decided to damage everybody.And they did this with full knowledge of the risks,we can't blame a handful of politicians.
This is a bad day,the end of a bad week.My mum died on Tuesday,my sister is waiting to find out which combination of mastectomy/chemotherapy/palliative care she will need.
This is all shit.

Really sorry to hear that Rebecca. That's a lot to deal with all at once. My condolences. I'm glad your son came to your point of view, though. It's nice to think at least your family are of the same mind, even when others aren't.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:29 am

Every single currency in the world is rising against pound.
Thanks brexiteers.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:30 am

Maeght wrote:
Rebecca wrote:No,it is not Corbyns fault.
He told the truth.In fact,my brexit leaning son changed his mind because of Corbyn,said he was the only politician who was being honest.
We need him more than ever now,imo,not some bloody blairite to nod through whatever ravages the tories will be heaping on the country.
This is a monumental disaster.
Of course,Cameron will walk away scot free.
But the only people to blame are the ones who wanted this to happen.Voted to leave,ignoring every warning of what would happen,and which has started already.
We all had a choice,sadly just over half have decided to damage everybody.And they did this with full knowledge of the risks,we can't blame a handful of politicians.
This is a bad day,the end of a bad week.My mum died on Tuesday,my sister is waiting to find out which combination of mastectomy/chemotherapy/palliative care she will need.
This is all shit.
I'm so sorry about this Rebecca. I can only offer my heartfelt sympathy.

Agreed. Same here.

cJA

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:37 am

Jesus Christ...

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This really is the apocalypse.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:39 am

I'm glad of those Deutschmark I have under my bed.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:40 am

I liked being a Brit. But that might not be an option any more and I don't want to be English.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:42 am

2020 climate and emissions targets

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:42 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:I liked being a Brit. But that might not be an option any more and I don't want to be English.

West Country born and bred, me.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:42 am

And this is also a genuine tweet, from the man who won't apologise for his "bullet" remark:

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"June 23rd should be a national holiday".

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:44 am

> 81,000

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:46 am

No - this is not Jeremy Corbyn's fault. But that doesn't alter the fact that he was rather less than inspirational. Which he could have chosen to be and still not shared a platform with David Cameron. I thought that was the idea - to be a distinctive and separate "Remain" rallying point. God knows where Labour goes now in terms of leadership.

Amazingly, John Mann (an "Outer" himself) managed to be quite sensible, sprinkled with the usual crap, in an interview today. He said that Jeremy Corbyn should now be on the front foot on many issues thrown up by the "Out" result and some of the "Out" promises.

By the way - isn't the margin of victory somewhat smaller than Nigel Farage said it had to be in order to be beyond challenge? (Not that I agreed with him.)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:46 am

Oh good grief...

Cornwall votes against Europe, then expects to keep EU funding. Good luck with that.

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This is why there shouldn't have been a bloody referendum in the first place - there is no way that all of the complexities of EU membership were going to come out and be discussed properly.

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:48 am

Thought I would drop in to share commiserations.

It was my birthday yesterday, thanks for the present David Cameron.

On the plus side it may turn into a bank holiday.

I find it somewhat ironic that Wales has voted leave when we would not vote for independence from the UK (or England). The EU has done more for Wales than any Tory government has, with all the funding for infrastructure projects, deprived areas, etc. My company is moving next week to offices that were part funded by the EU, just off a link road that was also part funded by them.

Just saw this on the Guardian Business Live blog:

Howard Shore, executive chairman of stockbroking firm Shore Capital Group, argues that the British people made the right decision.

‘We now have a fantastic opportunity to deregulate the economy and better compete on a global stage in the 21st century.’

We are turkeys that have voted for Christmas.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:49 am

People voted for this thinking there wouldn't be any bad consequences. They are about to learn their lesson.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:51 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:People voted for this thinking there wouldn't be any bad consequences. They are about to learn their lesson.

Indeed. And it will be hard not to highlight this to them in emotive language.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:51 am

WelshIan wrote:
Just saw this on the Guardian Business Live blog:

Howard Shore, executive chairman of stockbroking firm Shore Capital Group, argues that the British people made the right decision.

‘We now have a fantastic opportunity to deregulate the economy and better compete on a global stage in the 21st century.’
We are turkeys that have voted for Christmas.

Snap, I was just going to post that. We all know what deregulation means. Lovely.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:54 am

Indeed, quite a few voted "leave" never expecting them to actually win (and not just because of the "MI5 will rub our votes out" stuff)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:55 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Indeed, quite a few voted "leave" never expecting them to actually win (and not just because of the "MI5 will rub our votes out" stuff)

Yes. Bloody MI5. Asleep on the job.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:57 am

the European Parliament would call on Jean-Claude Juncker to strip the British commissioner Jonathan Hill of its financial services brief with immediate effect and turn him into a “commissioner without portfolio”.

Guardian live

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:59 am

I thought Tony Blair was very good on Sky News earlier.

There I've said it. *Ducks and hides for cover*

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 10:59 am

Oh no.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:02 am

Rebecca - condolences. And I hope your sister gets the best care.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

All is not lost!

I've still got snacks, dips, cake, etc. so you are all very wlcome Chez Ephie.

I've even got some chocolate brownies with walnuts in. Oh yes.

I'm gong to risk the stoning my stones might give me and have one with my coffee.

So there, Farridge.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:05 am

TobyLatimer wrote:I thought Tony Blair was very good on Sky News earlier.

There I've said it. *Ducks and hides for cover*

To a significant degree, this is his responsibility.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:09 am

All is not lost? This result is very likely to cost a very large number of people at my workplace their jobs in the short and long run. And we've just gone through a round of redundancies because of the prior cuts by the Tories. The government is never going to be able to replace the funding we're going to lose within the next couple of years as grants run their course and are not renewed. And this government has shown no interest in even maintaining the funding we already get from the UK, never mind the EU.

But, "freedom!" (waves flag dispiritedly prior to being eviscerated as part of the hanging, drawing and quartering). Yay.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:14 am

I realise I'm a bit slow on the uptake here, but wasn't allowing a Labour MP to be the chair of Leave a bit 'kin' stupid?

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:17 am

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:People voted for this thinking there wouldn't be any bad consequences. They are about to learn their lesson.
Indeed. And it will be hard not to highlight this to them in emotive language.

What's the point? It's not going to change anything. Why waste your breath?

Apologies but I am really, really pissed off today. In the past I've walked the streets of the country at numerous elections, knocking on doors, trying to get people to vote for their best interests (generally Labour but always against the 1%) but a part of me feels now that the British (or at least 52% of them) are masochists who quite enjoy being shat upon by their "betters" - it's reminiscent of the working classes in "the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists" saying that the good things in life "ain't for the likes of us". At the moment I feel as dejected as I did after the 1987 election, and part of me feels like saying "Fuck 'em. They've made their beds, they can lie in them".
And right on cue, the scratched record brigade on the centre left, in the media, but also by one or two on sites such as this come along stating that Corbyn needs to "consider his position". Crap. Is it Corbyn's fault that the referendum was called in the first place, that the MSM was more interested in "blue on blue" in-fighting & pushing the agenda of Farage & his cohort of wankers intent on taking us back to the '30's? Is it bollocks. One man, and one man alone is responsible for this, and a pound to a penny he'll be in numerous directorships & sitting in the Lords before the next election.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:17 am

Within a few years, the following are possible:

2nd Scottish referendum, which votes for independence
Some sort of unwelcome event in NI
Gibraltar decides to link up with Spain after we effectively told them to naff off yesterday
Argentina moves on the Falklands - internationally friendless and with run down armed forces, we are unable to respond

But never mind, WE HAVE TAKEN BACK CONTROL!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:23 am

Am I misreading things or does it appear to be the case that the EU isn't desperately interested in having "informal discussions" with us? Don't they just want us to cut to the chase? I get the impression that tea and cucumber sandwiches aren't on their list of things to do.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 11:25 am

Gove now apparently saying he will invoke the aid of those very same "experts" he spent the campaign denouncing

Hopefully they will tell him to f*** off