Friday 24th June 2016

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:22 pm

"I have bad news for the Hannans and Goves and Johnsons of this world. This is not your victory. You are free riders on the back of Mr Farage. You have smuggled through your sixth-form reading list politics on the back of Mr Farage’s stoking up of immigration fears. I hope you are proud of yourself and I hope, though I do not expect, that you are ready for what is coming"

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-wi ... -zzfpxsc66" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:24 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Have not calmed down yet. Saw an EU flag on a car in Sheffield - never seen that before. Applauded, hope they saw me in their rear view mirror.

Then a quite hideously revolting BBC radio news bulletin, which went: Gove saying Cameron was a great PM; Peter Bone telling Sturgeon to get back in her box; some pleased voters in Tipton who talked about nothing but immigrants; Hodge savaging Corbyn. Half expected Farage to come on and tell us he'd annexed the national media.

Tipton, or maybe more accurately, a part of Tipton has been a far-right enclave for decades.

Back around 1992 a few travellers stopped in a derelict pub car-park and the NF moved in to spread a little bile. After a few months they'd convinced a significant proportion of the locals that Sandwell Council had, by law, to employ a "big quota of darkies and women". Which, said the NF, was why the local council offices didn't employ the local, mostly white, male youth. The reality of course was there was no "quota", just jobs that required a certain minimum of educational qualifications that most of the locals didn't have. It didn't help that Sandwell at the time was one of if not the worst performing LEAs in the UK.

Before Thatcher's recession Tipton was a place with lots of skilled jobs in engineering for which you needed no school qualifications at all. And most council staff were women because engineering ahift work paid more than the council. After most of the factories closed down over a year or two, Tipton became one of the poorest parts of the country with a highly skilled adult male population no-one wanted to employ and a kind of tradition that school didn't matter much to boys because office jobs didn't pay very well, and men who worked in offices weren't 'real men' anyway.

One ward in Tipton received a million and a half in EU revitalisation money. Which didn't improve things much but slowed the downward slide considerably. The same year the NF got 25% in the local election.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:25 pm

My husband's just signed his first ever online petition, for the second referendum.
He's still waiting for his email to confirm, as I am an hour or two since my registering it.
If there are a lot of people whose votes haven't yet appeared on the site there maybe a lot more than 145,000. Fingers crossed.

Maybe the petition should be amended to add 'and because many people report that they are regretting their decision, or did not understand the full implications and dangers of a Leave win'.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:26 pm

daydreamer wrote:Hi all,

So, sorry to hear about Lady C. I will miss her wonderfully warm and insightful posts. RIP good lady.

I have been avoiding politics (even FTN and the news - well right wing news anyway, which lets face it is most of the news outlets in this benighted country) since May last year. Ever since Ed and Labour lost the election in fact. I was pretty much devastated at the result (and like PF i don't think I've still recovered from it). I knew nothing good could come from such a right wing Tory government, and sure enough look where we are today.

What a sad day for our country.

I'm going back to read the thread now.

It's good to read you again. Mr citizen went to fetch us biscuits

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:26 pm

Robin Corbyn's Vest ‏@WarmongerHodges 4h4 hours ago

If Margaret Hodge spent as much time campaigning as she does plotting to oust Corbyn her constituency might not have voted 62.4% to leave.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:27 pm

Rebecca wrote:No,it is not Corbyns fault.
He told the truth.In fact,my brexit leaning son changed his mind because of Corbyn,said he was the only politician who was being honest.
We need him more than ever now,imo,not some bloody blairite to nod through whatever ravages the tories will be heaping on the country.
This is a monumental disaster.
Of course,Cameron will walk away scot free.
But the only people to blame are the ones who wanted this to happen.Voted to leave,ignoring every warning of what would happen,and which has started already.
We all had a choice,sadly just over half have decided to damage everybody.And they did this with full knowledge of the risks,we can't blame a handful of politicians.
This is a bad day,the end of a bad week.My mum died on Tuesday,my sister is waiting to find out which combination of mastectomy/chemotherapy/palliative care she will need.
This is all shit.

My condolences, Rebecca.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:29 pm

WelshIan wrote:Thought I would drop in to share commiserations.

It was my birthday yesterday, thanks for the present David Cameron. On the plus side it may turn into a bank holiday.

I find it somewhat ironic that Wales has voted leave when we would not vote for independence from the UK (or England). The EU has done more for Wales than any Tory government has, with all the funding for infrastructure projects, deprived areas, etc. My company is moving next week to offices that were part funded by the EU, just off a link road that was also part funded by them.

Just saw this on the Guardian Business Live blog:

Howard Shore, executive chairman of stockbroking firm Shore Capital Group, argues that the British people made the right decision.

‘We now have a fantastic opportunity to deregulate the economy and better compete on a global stage in the 21st century.’
We are turkeys that have voted for Christmas.

Happy Birthday

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:31 pm

Flip me. The Sun's political editor tweeted 'Everything changes now. I hope we know what we've just done'

Just a suggestion, but wouldn't it have been a good idea to think about that before barking at Sun readers to bail out?

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:35 pm

Temulkar wrote:General Election in November I think, in the midst of a recession. I wonder if Boris could end up as the shortest time ever for a sitting prime minister?

I don't want to heap depression on depression, but I think a quick general election could be a disaster.

Just been food shopping. Overheard three separate conversations that went something along the lines of "Needs to be an election, Cameron's lot are weak, have to go. Boris is a useless clown. Corbyn's good, would probably vote for him under other circumstances. But right now we need a strong man who knows all Europe's dirty tricks, won't be fooled by them and won't give an inch. If they have an election, I'm voting for Nigel Farrage."

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:36 pm

Is this the first time in our history that an unelected bigot has driven the agenda of politics which has resulted in such disatrous consequences for the country and half the electorate ? This is Farage's legacy, how to ruin the country and the lives of millions without even sitting at Westminster.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:37 pm

The Mail say interest rates likely to drop even lower.

Maybe a lot of older voters will join Regrexit# when they twig their savings interest will scrape even lower.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:39 pm

yahyah wrote:The Mail say interest rates likely to drop even lower.

Maybe a lot of older voters will join Regrexit# when they twig their savings interest will scrape even lower.

Any lower? I'm going to sort out a nice strong biscuit tin.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:39 pm

"...a “manufactured leadership row” would be an indulgence the [Labour] party cannot afford."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... d83eb4a449" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tactfully phrased
Corbyn isn't named making the statement all the more seemly

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:41 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:What shall I say to this guy on the way to work?
"At least you knew how to hold a referendum and get the result you wanted?"
The clue is in the massive support for "leave" just a few years ago during the Euro crisis, something Cameron should have considered when deciding to hold a referendum in which he supported "remain". This is why he is a very stupid man and why it is wrong to blame Labour in any way, as they refused to put an EU ref in their manifesto, even though doing so almost certainly cost them votes in the last election. I have always found Corbyn underwhelming and he was underwhelming in this campaign, however, he played a very poor hand as well as he could, undoubtedly convinced a few Labour waverers to vote "remain" and really isn't in any way responsible for this result. The billionaire newspaper owners have won. We have been brought to near ruin by decades of drip, drip, anti-immigrant propaganda in our overwhelmingly right-wing press. I am still grateful to Ed Miliband for trying to stand up to them and the toxic grip they have on this country, despite his ultimate failure to win the GE against some of the most hostile media coverage I have ever witnessed. He's still my champion. He has been right on so many levels.

My bold.

Yes, I'm grateful and he's still my champion, too.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:43 pm

Willow904 wrote:The idea of having a hard border between Northern and the Republic of Ireland is just unthinkable.

I suspect the Orange Order, Apprentice Boys, UUP, DUP, UDF, UDA etc. would beg to differ.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:44 pm

Financial chaos, economic crisis, the likely breakaway of Scotland and possibly Northern Ireland: quite a morning’s work for the Bullingdon Club.

Remember as the pound plunges and the markets slide that this entire referendum was called by David Cameron to fend off Nigel Farage and his own Tory ultras. There was no public outcry for a ballot – but for the sake of a bit of internal party management, he called one anyway. He gambled Britain and Europe’s future to shore up his own position. With all the confidence of a member of the Etonian officer class, he thought he’d win. Instead he has bungled so badly that the fallout will drag on for years, disrupting tens of millions of lives across Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -cockiness

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:47 pm

So tell me then, now that Farage's lifetime goal has been achieved when is he going to give up his seat in the EU parliament?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:48 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
Temulkar wrote:General Election in November I think, in the midst of a recession. I wonder if Boris could end up as the shortest time ever for a sitting prime minister?
I don't want to heap depression on depression, but I think a quick general election could be a disaster.

Just been food shopping. Overheard three separate conversations that went something along the lines of "Needs to be an election, Cameron's lot are weak, have to go. Boris is a useless clown. Corbyn's good, would probably vote for him under other circumstances. But right now we need a strong man who knows all Europe's dirty tricks, won't be fooled by them and won't give an inch. If they have an election, I'm voting for Nigel Farrage."

A strong man, where have we heard that before ? I find myself wanting to swear a lot today.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:49 pm

From that Guardian article about Cameron.

I like

"He was never that good, he was just cocky. It was never luck, it was just Teflon. And now it’s worn off."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:49 pm

I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:49 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:So tell me then, now that Farage's lifetime goal has been achieved when is he going to give up his seat in the EU parliament?

Nah, not while there's still gravy left on the train.
Do hope the media pressure him on it. But won't hold out much hope.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:49 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Shlomo Anker
‏@Hapoel4

if you are a Labour member, use this form to contact the party to defend Corbyn. takes 2mins

http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/membership-contact-form" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Done.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:53 pm

HindleA wrote:I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

I don't blame a 'region' - but anyone who is affected by this and who voted 'Leave' will have no sympathy from me....sorry to be harsh but there have to be consequences to actions

If the world turns out rosey and we have a wonderful future then I will apologise but then no-one will care too much as everyone will be doing so well in the England/Wales (what would that be called?) utopia

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:54 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: He's just had to pay damages for slander. Can't remember the name of the guy that sued him. It happened on the day Jo Cox was killed so didn't make the headlines.
Imam Suliman Gani
Michael Fallon.

Apologies - I've confused Michael Fallon, the libeller of Imam Suliman Gani with Tim Farron, slanderer of the current Labour party leader.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:56 pm

ohsocynical wrote:From that Guardian article about Cameron.

I like

"He was never that good, he was just cocky. It was never luck, it was just Teflon. And now it’s worn off."

Like a cheap saucepan, Cameron

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:56 pm

HindleA wrote:I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

Point taken. But this isn't football, this is about lives, jobs, health, the environment.

And the laws of cause and effect are nothing to do with Hoddle's quasi-Christian interpretation.
It is a very complex and sophisticated thousands of year old system for living morally.
It is not, as people wrongly believe, about retribution, but about everything having causes and conditions. Things are not independent of other actions.

If people in the North East, or wherever, make a decision to vote Brexit, for whatever reason and there have been some odd ones as we've heard today, then the consequences of that act will be felt.
By someone, somewhere. It isn't about punishment, or feeling superior. It is like one of the laws of physics, for every action there is a reaction.

Some very clever philosphers and academics with letters after their names have explained it a lot better than I can. Glenn Hoddle is not one of them.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:57 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Shlomo Anker
‏@Hapoel4

if you are a Labour member, use this form to contact the party to defend Corbyn. takes 2mins

http://www.labour.org.uk/page/s/membership-contact-form" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Done.

Done too

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:57 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Rebecca wrote: So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.
Hey, the PLP can't actually depose him.
No but their utter, utter stupidity is the final straw. We need every decent politician there is finding out what's going to happen and trying to do what they can to avert disaster. We're reeling. The countries reeling and what are they doing? They're still fucking intent on getting rid of Corbyn.

I've had it with them.

Hubby, who voted remain and is a Labour supporter, partly blames Labour for the mess we are in. He means Labour over the last twenty years or so, i.e. the lost opportunity to change economic/political direction under the Blair years, the disengagement from it's working class support/roots, the inability to put someone in charge who is electable (he doesn't like Corbyn, and says Miliband and Balls were a shambles - I don't agree with him on Miliband), and their lacklustre Remain campaign. He's really quite angry and disappointed in Labour. He reckons (but I don't think its that easy - a right wing press for starters) that if Labour ever properly got their act together they'd be unbeatable in elections.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:58 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Is this the first time in our history that an unelected bigot has driven the agenda of politics which has resulted in such disatrous consequences for the country and half the electorate ? This is Farage's legacy, how to ruin the country and the lives of millions without even sitting at Westminster.

Let's think.

There were the anti-Catholic Gordon Riots in London in the early 19th century that made the city almost ungovernable for a couple of weeks. Few long lasting effects though, Catholic Emancipation was held up but not for very long.

Mosley did his best, but got a good kicking literally and metaphorically. Economic effects were virtually nil and very soon after Mosley peaked, whenever a British working man saw a fascist it was his duty to the UK to do all in his power to immediately kill said fascist.

Powell got the dock workers out to greet refugees fleeing Amin's Uganda with "go away" banners. No economic meltdown though and the refugees stayed here, many going on to be assets to the country.

There's the Orange Order and Craigavon's establishment of a "protestant state for a protestant people" in Northern Ireland I suppose. That caused repercussions we're still working through today.

But other than that, I think Nigel and his chums have pulled off something quite unique. Though without the assistance of both wings of the Tory party I can't see him having managed it.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:58 pm

yahyah wrote:
gilsey wrote:
Rebecca wrote: So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.
I forgot, there is an outstanding candidate. Is this enough of a crisis for him to have a rethink?
Come back Ed, all is forgiven.
Chris Bryant wouldn't be happy. He was threatening to punch Ed in the early hours.

Why Yahyah?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 5:59 pm

citizenJA wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Imam Suliman Gani
Michael Fallon.
Apologies - I've confused Michael Fallon, the libeller of Imam Suliman Gani with Tim Farron, slanderer of the current Labour party leader.

Perfectly understandable, they are both twits. One is more dangerous though.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:00 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Rebecca wrote: So,Tuesday I will leave the labour party.Because I have a lot of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn and not much in any of the others.
Hey, the PLP can't actually depose him.
No but their utter, utter stupidity is the final straw. We need every decent politician there is finding out what's going to happen and trying to do what they can to avert disaster. We're reeling. The countries reeling and what are they doing? They're still fucking intent on getting rid of Corbyn.

I've had it with them.

Yeah, hubby's not happy with them either.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:01 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:So tell me then, now that Farage's lifetime goal has been achieved when is he going to give up his seat in the EU parliament?

I wonder if he'll get treated like a lot of the poor sods who lose their jobs. Belongings packed in a cardboard box, and escorted off the premises by security.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:01 pm

daydreamer wrote:
yahyah wrote:
gilsey wrote: I forgot, there is an outstanding candidate. Is this enough of a crisis for him to have a rethink?
Come back Ed, all is forgiven.
Chris Bryant wouldn't be happy. He was threatening to punch Ed in the early hours.
Why Yahyah?

It was something about blaming Ed for leaving the party in a parlous state.
I've avoided the Guardian since it is full of crowing Brexit fans, so haven't got to the real nub of it.
Radio 4 mentioned it. I was surprised, wanting to punch someone, especially Ed, seems very over the top. But tempers are fraying, there will be anger expressed.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:03 pm

Feel physically sick, bereavement is probably too strong but am devoid of energy and feel as though I have had a kick in the guts, I will never underestimate the stupidity of the British electorate and of its politicians again.

Giving people a vote on something few truly understand, a subject where lies have gone unchecked for most of my lifetime, I'm going to concentrate on the nice things in life from now on, my garden, visiting old churches with my bloke, Pevsner's in hand, I've had it with the masses..

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:03 pm

yahyah wrote:Alex Andreou is as bitter as I feel. ' ''Principled'' lefties up and down the land voting for #Lexit have to be worth 2% right ? Prime Minister Boris thanks you in particular.''

I'm sorry, but I feel as aggrieved as when the so called progressive parties targeted Labour and Ed M last year. Principles don't butter no parsnips.

Me too, Yahyah.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:04 pm

PorFavor wrote:@ScarletGas

Happy birthday!

Yes, Happy birthday SG

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:04 pm

yahyah wrote:The Mail say interest rates likely to drop even lower.

Maybe a lot of older voters will join Regrexit# when they twig their savings interest will scrape even lower.

Difficult to see how interest rates can drop when the central bank one is 0.5% and has been for years. Lowering interest rates isn't the usual way to shore up a currency either, quite the opposite.

And the Mail promised us we'd be living in heaven on earth today, not hearing about British tourists unable to persuade Johnny Foreigner to hand over some Euros in exchange Her Majesty's Finest Pounds Sterling.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:05 pm

PorFavor wrote:Yes - we should have hung onto Ed Miliband.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:06 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:So tell me then, now that Farage's lifetime goal has been achieved when is he going to give up his seat in the EU parliament?
I wonder if he'll get treated like a lot of the poor sods who lose their jobs. Belongings packed in a cardboard box, and escorted off the premises by security.

I bet they'd just love to. But wouldn't want to give him something to whine about.
Years ago I thought Farage was a very misguided eccentric. Now, having observed him, I think he is a very dangerous piece of work. Something quite fundamentally askew about him. I just hope someone catches him off guard and on mic one day.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:07 pm

Is John Major rewriting history here?

Talking of Cameron (who he seems to have a man crush on) he says;

"Upon the day he became Prime Minister our economy was on a precipice, our banks were very close to collapse, and the forecast was dire. We now have one of the strongest economies, our banks are now much better prepared now than ever before to face any of the difficulties that lie ahead, and I think that its very much to David Cameron's credit"

Unless my memory is playing tricks, at least, the first part of that recovery scenario was during the Brown/Darling era (who, in my opinion, history will be a lot kinder than hiterto)

Is it me or is it just another case of a tory perpetuating yet another convenient myth?

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:10 pm

HindleA wrote:Will Britain's European workers get the boot?

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/24/news/ec ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My sister in law works with a lot of Eastern Europeans and she reports they were worried today. Asking what will happen to them now, and whether they'll have to leave, and how bad things might get with the anti-immigrant rhetoric. It's made everyone's future uncertain.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:11 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.
I don't blame a 'region' - but anyone who is affected by this and who voted 'Leave' will have no sympathy from me....sorry to be harsh but there have to be consequences to actions

If the world turns out rosey and we have a wonderful future then I will apologise but then no-one will care too much as everyone will be doing so well in the England/Wales (what would that be called?) utopia

I'm up a tree here in Stoke, you know? My accent isn't local. People here are lovely, mostly, but we weren't raised together, we experience others differently. People get afraid, especially during times of upheaval. Like now. Tories for six years. I did my best with Labour remain.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:11 pm

Media Guardian Verified account
‏@mediaguardian

Did the Mail and Sun help swing the UK towards Brexit? http://gu.com/p/4mjpz/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:19 pm

yahyah wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
yahyah wrote: Chris Bryant wouldn't be happy. He was threatening to punch Ed in the early hours.
Why Yahyah?

It was something about blaming Ed for leaving the party in a parlous state.
I've avoided the Guardian since it is full of crowing Brexit fans, so haven't got to the real nub of it.
Radio 4 mentioned it. I was surprised, wanting to punch someone, especially Ed, seems very over the top. But tempers are fraying, there will be anger expressed.

In hindsight, I think Ed knew what the right of the party would do if he stayed - it's exactly what they're now doing to Corbyn.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:19 pm

HindleA wrote:I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:20 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:
HindleA wrote:I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

It's probably what some idiots are saying because the North East voted so heavily for out.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:22 pm

I find the attempts to hang on to Corbyn as irrational in their way as Brexit believers thinking jumping off the cliff will be fine because magic will somehow happen.

I don't blame Corbyn for losing the referendum, he didn't call it. I blame him for running an utterly invisible campaign, and Farron is right, his sniffy refusal to take part in the sort of multi-leader events that saw Cameron appear with Brown/Lucas/Farron meant nobody saw or heard him. Nobody is saying he had to endorse Cameron, he could have slagged him off for austerity, others did.

He has shown no charisma or campaign presence. His appearances where reported were via Leave press releases because his arguments generally played into their hands. This is a bit of a constant problem with Jeremy, it isn't getting any better.

Corbyn's argument was you can win from the far left because even if you miss swing Tory voters there are a huge pool of untapped left wing voters out there to make up the numbers. We have now had a local election and the referendum, the only untapped voters vote UKIP.

Given his target constituency doesn't exist, he needs to change message and find other voters. But there are no signs he can even start to do this.

It is now clear the Tory party is moving to the far right, a whole load of soft Tories and ex lib dems are in play. The pissed off Brexiter plus the remaining Labour core are also there to be won. This may even be a winning coalition, but Corbyn doesn't appeal to two of these groups, he is seen as weak and they don't trust him.

In the next couple of years a bunch of fools will screw up Brexit. There will be consequences and Boris will struggle to pass legislation, he will be desperate to cut and run to get his 100+ majority.

A strong charismatic Labour leader can oppose Boris, they can keep the (dubious) polling tight and slowly expand their coalition. People will turn to them as a voice of reason in debates where Boris starts imploding. If they can win then Labour may be able to save the situation or at least mitigate thr dammage and protect our rights.

Corbyn can't do any of that, not entirely his fault, he just isn't built that way. What use is he other than as a free pass for Boris to win his big majority - something that must be avoided for all our sakes. It is time to let him go before he inadvertantly enables the worst government in history.

Does anybody here really think given past performances and a serious objective look at the situation that Corbyn wouldn't lose to Boris by a large margin?

I don't overly care who replaces him, although there are limited candidates and arch Blairites are out as Blairism belongs to a different era. Given legal issues Kier Starmer might do the job, Jarvis would be a PR dream but his substance is questionable.

Why hand Boris power by pretending Corbyn is competitive?

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Ciaran Jenkins Verified account
‏@C4Ciaran

Been standing here five minutes. Three different people have shouted "send them home". (EU Blog thing, Guardian)

(He's in Barnsley just for information)

F**K. I'd just like to say that not everyone from Barnsley thinks this way. Not me, not Hubby, and not Hubby's family. Not the little old lady in the polling station who was receiving help casting her vote and made clear she wanted to vote remain.

Hubby's parents, old style working class, Labour voters are shaking their heads, saying they don't know what the country's coming to (i.e. voting out, shooting dead politician's on the street). Mum-in-law says she's frightened by UKIP. She heard some of them speaking at the Town Hall a while back and was disturbed by their rhetoric. 'Very nasty' as she put it.

But yeah, the result is bad from Barnsley and sadly I don't doubt the account above.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 24 Jun, 2016 6:27 pm

yahyah wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/busi ... -1-7980813

Nissan says ‘no comment’ on future of Sunderland plant after Brexit
Sunderland Leave voters may get a harsh lesson in the karmic laws of cause and effect.

They'd be too thick to make the connection. Sorry, I'm not at all bitter.