Friday 24th June 2016

[yahyah]

I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

Sometimes people do vote the wrong way. Should we just pretend they don't ?

[55DegreesNorth]

I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

It's probably what some idiots are saying because the North East voted so heavily for out.

Newcastle didn't. I'm still not sure about the tone of this. Perhaps my irony detectors are faulty. I have to admit to feeling very down about all this, especially since I don't know anyone who voted out. My friends are all gutted and a few are already looking for work north of the border. Challenging times.

[yahyah]

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/busi ... -1-7980813


Nissan says ‘no comment’ on future of Sunderland plant after Brexit

Sunderland Leave voters may get a harsh lesson in the karmic laws of cause and effect.

They'd be too thick to make the connection. Sorry, I'm not at all bitter.

Better out than in. It's going to take a while to process the feelings.
We'd have to be saints or the Dalai Lama to smile beatifically with what's going on.

[yahyah]

I find the attempts to hang on to Corbyn as irrational in their way as Brexit believers thinking jumping off the cliff will be fine because magic will somehow happen.

I don't blame Corbyn for losing the referendum, he didn't call it. I blame him for running an utterly invisible campaign, and Farron is right, his sniffy refusal to take part in the sort of multi-leader events that saw Cameron appear with Brown/Lucas/Farron meant nobody saw or heard him. Nobody is saying he had to endorse Cameron, he could have slagged him off for austerity, others did.

He has shown no charisma or campaign presence. His appearances where reported were via Leave press releases because his arguments generally played into their hands. This is a bit of a constant problem with Jeremy, it isn't getting any better.

Corbyn's argument was you can win from the far left because even if you miss swing Tory voters there are a huge pool of untapped left wing voters out there to make up the numbers. We have now had a local election and the referendum, the only untapped voters vote UKIP.

Given his target constituency doesn't exist, he needs to change message and find other voters. But there are no signs he can even start to do this.

It is now clear the Tory party is moving to the far right, a whole load of soft Tories and ex lib dems are in play. The pissed off Brexiter plus the remaining Labour core are also there to be won. This may even be a winning coalition, but Corbyn doesn't appeal to two of these groups, he is seen as weak and they don't trust him.

In the next couple of years a bunch of fools will screw up Brexit. There will be consequences and Boris will struggle to pass legislation, he will be desperate to cut and run to get his 100+ majority.

A strong charismatic Labour leader can oppose Boris, they can keep the (dubious) polling tight and slowly expand their coalition. People will turn to them as a voice of reason in debates where Boris starts imploding. If they can win then Labour may be able to save the situation or at least mitigate thr dammage and protect our rights.

Corbyn can't do any of that, not entirely his fault, he just isn't built that way. What use is he other than as a free pass for Boris to win his big majority - something that must be avoided for all our sakes. It is time to let him go before he inadvertantly enables the worst government in history.

Does anybody here really think given past performances and a serious objective look at the situation that Corbyn wouldn't lose to Boris by a large margin?

I don't overly care who replaces him, although there are limited candidates and arch Blairites are out as Blairism belongs to a different era. Given legal issues Kier Starmer might do the job, Jarvis would be a PR dream but his substance is questionable.

Why hand Boris power by pretending Corbyn is competitive?

There's a siren whisper entering my hearing from some of that.

[daydreamer]

Maybe there'll be a very loud noise sweeping the country soon.
The sound of millions of Brexit voters sucking their teeth and saying 'Oh ****, did I do that ?'.

Well, I live in hopes.

Some may do that. However more will, I fear, simply double down on blaming "immigruntz" and the rest.

(so no, I don't share Peter Jukes confidence it will be the "vast majority")

I agree, sadly.

[danesclose]

Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

But in this case entirely right (well apart from the Lib Dem bit at the end).

You only get to lose one election as Labour leader, Corbyn has lost his.

63% of Labour voters voted to stay in the EU.
Can you (& others like Peter Mandelson) please just leave your irrational dislike of Corbyn to one side. There's only one person to blame for the UK leaving the EU, and he's not Jeremy Corbyn

[yahyah]

What is truly depressing is there are some Brexiteers on Andrew's blog crowing like macho cockerels about giving remain 'a beating'.

They are laughing, as if they've done something good. Also seemingly completely unaware of what's been happening with the Bank of England, stock markets, price of imported goods etc since last night.
They must be completely clueless, not comprehending that they will be affected by their 'liberation'.
Sorry if that sounds superior, I'd love to have a heart swell of compassion for them but I'm not a good enough person.

[howsillyofme1]

I find the attempts to hang on to Corbyn as irrational in their way as Brexit believers thinking jumping off the cliff will be fine because magic will somehow happen.

I don't blame Corbyn for losing the referendum, he didn't call it. I blame him for running an utterly invisible campaign, and Farron is right, his sniffy refusal to take part in the sort of multi-leader events that saw Cameron appear with Brown/Lucas/Farron meant nobody saw or heard him. Nobody is saying he had to endorse Cameron, he could have slagged him off for austerity, others did.

He has shown no charisma or campaign presence. His appearances where reported were via Leave press releases because his arguments generally played into their hands. This is a bit of a constant problem with Jeremy, it isn't getting any better.

Corbyn's argument was you can win from the far left because even if you miss swing Tory voters there are a huge pool of untapped left wing voters out there to make up the numbers. We have now had a local election and the referendum, the only untapped voters vote UKIP.

Given his target constituency doesn't exist, he needs to change message and find other voters. But there are no signs he can even start to do this.

It is now clear the Tory party is moving to the far right, a whole load of soft Tories and ex lib dems are in play. The pissed off Brexiter plus the remaining Labour core are also there to be won. This may even be a winning coalition, but Corbyn doesn't appeal to two of these groups, he is seen as weak and they don't trust him.

In the next couple of years a bunch of fools will screw up Brexit. There will be consequences and Boris will struggle to pass legislation, he will be desperate to cut and run to get his 100+ majority.

A strong charismatic Labour leader can oppose Boris, they can keep the (dubious) polling tight and slowly expand their coalition. People will turn to them as a voice of reason in debates where Boris starts imploding. If they can win then Labour may be able to save the situation or at least mitigate thr dammage and protect our rights.

Corbyn can't do any of that, not entirely his fault, he just isn't built that way. What use is he other than as a free pass for Boris to win his big majority - something that must be avoided for all our sakes. It is time to let him go before he inadvertantly enables the worst government in history.

Does anybody here really think given past performances and a serious objective look at the situation that Corbyn wouldn't lose to Boris by a large margin?

I don't overly care who replaces him, although there are limited candidates and arch Blairites are out as Blairism belongs to a different era. Given legal issues Kier Starmer might do the job, Jarvis would be a PR dream but his substance is questionable.

Why hand Boris power by pretending Corbyn is competitive?

I do care who replaces him actually....and how exactly do you think this will go down with the membership

I disagree fundamentally with you - the problem is that so many people have been damaged by austerity that they have been looking to give anyone a kicking. The only way to get them onside is to pander to their xenophobic attitudes - and if you want to do that then that is up to you. Starmer may be an option but have you any indication that he would stand. Jarvis is only considered because he was a soldier (pardon me if I do not get into this hero worship) but he is actually pretty useless. Who else?

The austerity meme was allowed to go unchecked since 2010 and was actually reinforced by the very Labour party people you would support....there is no answers to this problem from the Labour side

The UK is a broken country full of bitter people who just don't want to see the truth. Corbyn may not be the most passionate of people but I find it disgraceful and disgusting that there are people in the Labour movement who are spouting some of the shite I have seen today

This was a Tory refrendum, lost by a Tory PM by people voting against Tory policies

Johnson will be next PM because it is down to the Tories who it is....no way will there be a GE before 2020 and Britain will be a lot different place by then

[daydreamer]

Join the single market on same terms as Norway. It's the only way. If they'll have us, of course. A change of government would help. I suspect much of Europe is pretty fed up of the current one by now.

Like you say, it's probably the only way. But, I really doubt it'll happen.

[ohsocynical]

Bracknell Forest voted with the majority of the country to leave the EU in Thursday's Referendum . With 35,002 people opting out against 29,888 who voted to Remain.

Cllr Hill said: "Companies are going to choose to stay in Bracknell because we've got a very highly trained workforce, we've got the institutions and world class infrastructure that make us competitive. The markets are adjusting, but a weak pound is incredibly good for exports. In the short term things will calm down. What matters is the long-term and the nature of the trade deal we negotiate. As long as we're able to trade into the EU, just like Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, Greenland do, then we'll be fine."

The majority of voters in Wokingham backed Remain in the EU referendum, the opposite to the area's MP John Redwood
While the country chose to leave, 55,272 people in Wokingham voted in favour of Remain while 42,229 voters backed Brexit. Across the borough 80 per cent of registered voters turned out to cast their ballot in referendum on EU membership on Thursday, June 23.
Some voters have called for Wokingham MP John Redwood to resign after the borough voted to Remain in the European Union.
A number of people and councillors have made the call after insisting the prominent Brexit campaigner no longer represents their interests.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/readin ... n-11522358

And:

EU referendum: Maidenhead MP Theresa May strong contender for new Conservative leader

Brexit: Reading's council leader foresees more cuts

[ohsocynical]

I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

It's probably what some idiots are saying because the North East voted so heavily for out.

Hasten to add I didn't mean you HA. I presume you are quoting something you've heard.

[NonOxCol]

Is this the first time in our history that an unelected bigot has driven the agenda of politics which has resulted in such disatrous consequences for the country and half the electorate ? This is Farage's legacy, how to ruin the country and the lives of millions without even sitting at Westminster.

At 6 I saw news footage for the first time today. There were people crowding round Farage, thanking him and shaking his hand in some sort of ultra-discordant miniature echo of Blair on 2 May 1997.

For fucking REAL?

Well done Britain. Have a bloody biscuit.

[howsillyofme1]

Join the single market on same terms as Norway. It's the only way. If they'll have us, of course. A change of government would help. I suspect much of Europe is pretty fed up of the current one by now.

Like you say, it's probably the only way. But, I really doubt it'll happen.

No chance!

[AnatolyKasparov]

The media seem to be finding a lot of people who regret voting Leave, and belatedly understand the seriousness of their decision.
The young woman in one film says her whole family now realise the consequences, and reality has kicked in.

Maybe, if enough people feel that, and the Brexit lies become more apparent and prices go up, very quickly there will be political pressure for a re-run or to declare it void ?

Nice idea but I doubt it. It might mean the least bad option out of the EU (the "Norway model") might be feasible though?

[ohsocynical]

Tim Farron is a rude piece of work

But in this case entirely right (well apart from the Lib Dem bit at the end).

You only get to lose one election as Labour leader, Corbyn has lost his.

63% of Labour voters voted to stay in the EU.
Can you (& others like Peter Mandelson) please just leave your irrational dislike of Corbyn to one side. There's only one person to blame for the UK leaving the EU, and he's not Jeremy Corbyn

It's not about Corbyn, it's about that bunch of crassly stupid Labour MPs, who are still so miffed that Corbyn won, that they're prepared to forego preventing or mending the damage that's happening right now, to not do the job we pay them to do, just to keep their fucking egos pumped up.

And they are so thick they fail to realise that while they carry on in this vein then the bulk of Labour members will still support Corbyn.

[howsillyofme1]

The media seem to be finding a lot of people who regret voting Leave, and belatedly understand the seriousness of their decision.
The young woman in one film says her whole family now realise the consequences, and reality has kicked in.

Maybe, if enough people feel that, and the Brexit lies become more apparent and prices go up, very quickly there will be political pressure for a re-run or to declare it void ?

Nice idea but I doubt it. It might mean the least bad option out of the EU (the "Norway model") might be feasible though?

Why should Europe offer that? It would lead to other countries considering other arrangements.

The EU, in my view, should hit GB hard and quickly.....perhaps getting more conciliatory in 5 years or so......in order to protect itself

What Britain wants should be the least of their concerns over the next few years

[daydreamer]

A lot of people have been saying they didn't expect Leave to win, it was just a protest vote.

As someone here said after the 2015 election, if people want to send politicians a message, why don't they just send a postcard ? There'd be a lot less nasty consequences.

What the bloody hell do they think is likely to happen if they vote leave. FFS!

[ohsocynical]

The media seem to be finding a lot of people who regret voting Leave, and belatedly understand the seriousness of their decision.
The young woman in one film says her whole family now realise the consequences, and reality has kicked in.

Maybe, if enough people feel that, and the Brexit lies become more apparent and prices go up, very quickly there will be political pressure for a re-run or to declare it void ?

Nice idea but I doubt it. It might mean the least bad option out of the EU (the "Norway model") might be feasible though?

But open borders is part of the Norway deal...And lets be honest, it was a depressingly big reason why a lot voted for out. We'll have had all the upheaval to end up still paying the EU for a Trade deal but getting nothing else out of it.

What a cock-up --- again.

[ohsocynical]

The media seem to be finding a lot of people who regret voting Leave, and belatedly understand the seriousness of their decision.
The young woman in one film says her whole family now realise the consequences, and reality has kicked in.

Maybe, if enough people feel that, and the Brexit lies become more apparent and prices go up, very quickly there will be political pressure for a re-run or to declare it void ?

Nice idea but I doubt it. It might mean the least bad option out of the EU (the "Norway model") might be feasible though?

Why should Europe offer that? It would lead to other countries considering other arrangements.

The EU, in my view, should hit GB hard and quickly.....perhaps getting more conciliatory in 5 years or so......in order to protect itself

What Britain wants should be the least of their concerns over the next few years

I reckon ever since Dave went there and threw his weight around without achieving a single thing, we've been a laughing stock and they'll be glad to see the back of us ASAP.

[NonOxCol]

I have had a sense of real foreboding about this country ever since the truly appalling mistreatment of Gordon Brown in 2009/10.

How fitting that it has taken a nation of Gillian Duffys to deliver absolute confirmation that I was right to feel that way.

[ohsocynical]

Supporting jeremy Corbyn now standing at 88,811

[daydreamer]

Morning all.

Thanks for all the comments last night, I've just about caught up. Bristol solid for "remain" as expected so, with a Bristol postcode, at least I don't have to feel like a fish out of water. No doubt Somerset was big for "leave", I haven't had time to check yet. Hating having Rees-Mogg as my MP more than ever right now.

I have lots to digest and may have some more thoughts later on, but my first concern is Northern Ireland. It seems to me the only way to avert complete disaster would be to join the single market like Norway and continue with the free movement of people. I know that's not what a lot of people thought they were voting for, but technically the referendum was exclusively on membership of the EU, not on the single market, not on immigration. Politically and economically it's the most sensible option. Recent history suggests it won't happen, but I can hope. The idea of having a hard border between Northern and the Republic of Ireland is just unthinkable.

I feel totally like a fish out of water.

Pop back into the pond here Daydreamer. The water's warm and you are very welcome

Thanks Yahyah

I may just do that, at least here I know I'm not alone.

[ohsocynical]

Nipping over to France for the duty free isn't going to be so easy now is it?

[TR'sGhost]

Is John Major rewriting history here?

Talking of Cameron (who he seems to have a man crush on) he says;

"Upon the day he became Prime Minister our economy was on a precipice, our banks were very close to collapse, and the forecast was dire. We now have one of the strongest economies, our banks are now much better prepared now than ever before to face any of the difficulties that lie ahead, and I think that its very much to David Cameron's credit"

Unless my memory is playing tricks, at least, the first part of that recovery scenario was during the Brown/Darling era (who, in my opinion, history will be a lot kinder than hiterto)

Is it me or is it just another case of a tory perpetuating yet another convenient myth?

Of course it is. And in more ways than one.

Where's the bit about how the wheels fell off the economy around 2am today as a direct consequence of the actions and policies of one David Cameron?

[TR'sGhost]

"This is probably the most disastrous single event in British history since the second world war." - Martin Wolf.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/29a7964c-3953 ... a8ee7.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[daydreamer]

Hi all,

So, sorry to hear about Lady C. I will miss her wonderfully warm and insightful posts. RIP good lady.

I have been avoiding politics (even FTN and the news - well right wing news anyway, which lets face it is most of the news outlets in this benighted country) since May last year. Ever since Ed and Labour lost the election in fact. I was pretty much devastated at the result (and like PF i don't think I've still recovered from it). I knew nothing good could come from such a right wing Tory government, and sure enough look where we are today.

What a sad day for our country.

I'm going back to read the thread now.

It's good to read you again. Mr citizen went to fetch us biscuits

Chocolate bourbons? It's good to be back cJA.

[NonOxCol]

"This is probably the most disastrous single event in British history since the second world war." - Martin Wolf.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/29a7964c-3953 ... a8ee7.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is there another contender? I invoked Suez earlier - can't think of anything else that doesn't rely to some extent on political subjectivity.

[daydreamer]

General Election in November I think, in the midst of a recession. I wonder if Boris could end up as the shortest time ever for a sitting prime minister?

I don't want to heap depression on depression, but I think a quick general election could be a disaster.

Just been food shopping. Overheard three separate conversations that went something along the lines of "Needs to be an election, Cameron's lot are weak, have to go. Boris is a useless clown. Corbyn's good, would probably vote for him under other circumstances. But right now we need a strong man who knows all Europe's dirty tricks, won't be fooled by them and won't give an inch. If they have an election, I'm voting for Nigel Farrage."

[daydreamer]

From that Guardian article about Cameron.

I like

"He was never that good, he was just cocky. It was never luck, it was just Teflon. And now it’s worn off."

Like a cheap saucepan, Cameron

That's a bit harsh, cJA. Saucepan's can be useful, even cheap ones.

[Willow904]

The media seem to be finding a lot of people who regret voting Leave, and belatedly understand the seriousness of their decision.
The young woman in one film says her whole family now realise the consequences, and reality has kicked in.

Maybe, if enough people feel that, and the Brexit lies become more apparent and prices go up, very quickly there will be political pressure for a re-run or to declare it void ?

Nice idea but I doubt it. It might mean the least bad option out of the EU (the "Norway model") might be feasible though?

Why should Europe offer that? It would lead to other countries considering other arrangements.

The EU, in my view, should hit GB hard and quickly.....perhaps getting more conciliatory in 5 years or so......in order to protect itself

What Britain wants should be the least of their concerns over the next few years

Europe would offer that because they'd still get our money, trade and free movement but they wouldn't have to put up with us vetoing everything and generally making a nuisance of ourselves. Other countries wouldn't consider it because it's a poor deal. Most Norwegian politicians would prefer to be in the EU proper but can't get their electorate to vote for it.

[PorFavor]

Even though we keep being told we're not yet technically "Out" there's a meeting of 27 EU member countries coming up. Guess who's not been invited (despite the subject matter of the meeting). I know it's only to be expected but . . . .

[daydreamer]

Chris Bryant wouldn't be happy. He was threatening to punch Ed in the early hours.

Why Yahyah?

It was something about blaming Ed for leaving the party in a parlous state.
I've avoided the Guardian since it is full of crowing Brexit fans, so haven't got to the real nub of it.
Radio 4 mentioned it. I was surprised, wanting to punch someone, especially Ed, seems very over the top. But tempers are fraying, there will be anger expressed.

Thanks Yahyah, appreciated.

[howsillyofme1]

Nice idea but I doubt it. It might mean the least bad option out of the EU (the "Norway model") might be feasible though?

Why should Europe offer that? It would lead to other countries considering other arrangements.

The EU, in my view, should hit GB hard and quickly.....perhaps getting more conciliatory in 5 years or so......in order to protect itself

What Britain wants should be the least of their concerns over the next few years

Europe would offer that because they'd still get our money, trade and free movement but they wouldn't have to put up with us vetoing everything and generally making a nuisance of ourselves. Other countries wouldn't consider it because it's a poor deal. Most Norwegian politicians would prefer to be in the EU proper but can't get their electorate to vote for it.

They may do it later on but no in the short term....a dangerous precedent to pander to us. They should set an example....

[ohsocynical]

Is John Major rewriting history here?

Talking of Cameron (who he seems to have a man crush on) he says;

"Upon the day he became Prime Minister our economy was on a precipice, our banks were very close to collapse, and the forecast was dire. We now have one of the strongest economies, our banks are now much better prepared now than ever before to face any of the difficulties that lie ahead, and I think that its very much to David Cameron's credit"

Unless my memory is playing tricks, at least, the first part of that recovery scenario was during the Brown/Darling era (who, in my opinion, history will be a lot kinder than hiterto)

Is it me or is it just another case of a tory perpetuating yet another convenient myth?

Of course it is. And in more ways than one.

Where's the bit about how the wheels fell off the economy around 2am today as a direct consequence of the actions and policies of one David Cameron?

I wonder if Major is having a quiet chuckle and saying 'Poor old Dave. The 'Bastards' got him.'

[thatchersorphan]

Jo Cox, the Brexit Vote, and the Politics of Murder http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... al_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JonnyT1234]

Corbyn's Islington: 75% Remain
Average Labour vote: 63%
Bradshaw's Exeter: 55% Remain
Coffey's Stockport: 52% Remain
Hodge's Barking and Dagenham: 38% Remain
Mann's Bassetlaw: 32% Remain

Clearly all Corbyn's fault.

Edited to add avg. Labour vote. Tell me again, who was it who failed to get the Labour message across to their supporters?

[citizenJA]

Even though we keep being told we're not yet technically "Out" there's a meeting of 27 EU member countries coming up. Guess who's not been invited (despite the subject matter of the meeting). I know it's only to be expected but . . . .

Who's flying our plane, please?

[NonOxCol]

"I have bad news for the Hannans and Goves and Johnsons of this world. This is not your victory. You are free riders on the back of Mr Farage. You have smuggled through your sixth-form reading list politics on the back of Mr Farage’s stoking up of immigration fears. I hope you are proud of yourself and I hope, though I do not expect, that you are ready for what is coming"

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-wi ... -zzfpxsc66" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

#

Apart from the over-generous assessment of Cameron, that really is the best article I've read all day.

Wish Martin Wolf's Brexit analysis (linked by TR's Ghost) wasn't behind a paywall.

[ohsocynical]

And something else that I find pretty horrible. I thought after Jo Cox's murder, there would be a huge groundswell away from Leave.

[daydreamer]

I blame the thick North East,indeed it serves them right if catastrophe strikes,that'll teach 'em-even if they didn't vote the correct way,they most have done something wrong in a previous life-the Hoddlean Kharmic Principle of just retribution-let us in turn justify our superiority,after all we DID vote the correct way
We must take control back from the stereotypes to blame.

I don't blame a 'region' - but anyone who is affected by this and who voted 'Leave' will have no sympathy from me....sorry to be harsh but there have to be consequences to actions

If the world turns out rosey and we have a wonderful future then I will apologise but then no-one will care too much as everyone will be doing so well in the England/Wales (what would that be called?) utopia

I'm up a tree here in Stoke, you know? My accent isn't local. People here are lovely, mostly, but we weren't raised together, we experience others differently. People get afraid, especially during times of upheaval. Like now. Tories for six years. I did my best with Labour remain.

And thanks for that, citizen

[NonOxCol]

From the Phillip Collins article (my bold, because I've been thinking of rattles and dummies every time I've heard that slogan):

For what? The notion that Britain was not free until the early hours of this morning is the single most childish claim I have ever heard in British politics. I have heard grown people, who ought to know better, talk of serfdom and calling June 23rd “independence day”. This is thinking that is profoundly unconservative, placing an abstract idea above the concrete facts of life. When the sun came up this morning — a new dawn was it not? — it meant nothing to pretend that we have passed from servitude into liberty. It is the emptiest campaign slogan, the self-satisfied bluster of a fluent intellectual dwarf.

I do like a bit of cold fury.

[citizenJA]

And something else that I find pretty horrible. I thought after Jo Cox's murder, there would be a huge groundswell away from Leave.

After a couple of days of her assassination in the news, mainstream media quickly moved on

[NonOxCol]

Will Self and Dreda 'Lexit' Mitchell on C4 News - a savage realist versus a hopeless panderer.

[ohsocynical]

Cripes. 92,539 now.

[Willow904]

Corbyn's Islington: 75% Remain
Average Labour vote: 63%
Bradshaw's Exeter: 55% Remain
Coffey's Stockport: 52% Remain
Hodge's Barking and Dagenham: 38% Remain
Mann's Bassetlaw: 32% Remain

Clearly all Corbyn's fault.

Edited to add avg. Labour vote. Tell me again, who was it who failed to get the Labour message across to their supporters?

On the other hand, maybe they understand why Labour's message is failing because they're at the sharp end. Corbyn seems to be in a pretty safe Labour seat. Bradshaw had his work cut out holding on to Exeter. It's the only non-Tory constituency south west of Bristol. I can't just ignore that. We need people who can win these places in the Labour party. We need people who can win seats off the Tories. Otherwise what's the point?

[NonOxCol]

Will Self and Dreda 'Lexit' Mitchell on C4 News - a savage realist versus a hopeless panderer.

Watch it on +1, it's brilliant.

[tinyclanger2]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... varoufakis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
quite a lot of parentheses but still...

The Tories will hang together, as they always do, guided by their powerful instinct of class interest. However, despite the relative tranquillity that will follow on from the current shock, insidious forces will be activated under the surface with a terrible capacity for inflicting damage on Europe and on Britain.

[tinyclanger2]

As of today, British and European democrats must seize on this vote to confront the establishment in London and Brussels more powerfully than before. The EU’s disintegration is now running at full speed. Building bridges across Europe, bringing democrats together across borders and political parties, is what Europe needs more than ever to avoid a slide into a xenophobic, deflationary, 1930s-like abyss.

From the same article. I think he's right.

[TR'sGhost]

"I have bad news for the Hannans and Goves and Johnsons of this world. This is not your victory. You are free riders on the back of Mr Farage. You have smuggled through your sixth-form reading list politics on the back of Mr Farage’s stoking up of immigration fears. I hope you are proud of yourself and I hope, though I do not expect, that you are ready for what is coming"

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-wi ... -zzfpxsc66" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

#

Apart from the over-generous assessment of Cameron, that really is the best article I've read all day.

Wish Martin Wolf's Brexit analysis (linked by TR's Ghost) wasn't behind a paywall.

Another snippet or two (the FT takes great umbrage if quoted too much without getting paid) -

"The Conservatives will have new leadership. Whether they will manage to produce a coherent government is another matter. They then will have to do what Brexiters failed to do during their mendacious campaign — map out a plan for unravelling the UK’s connections with the EU. They broke it; they now own it. But, alas, it seems unlikely that there is any plan on which Brexiters can agree."

"Business simply does not know how politicians will end up approaching the difficult negotiations ahead. This uncertainty has always been the obvious result of a vote to leave. Only time will clear this fog. But the view that, beyond a lengthy period of transition, the UK will be poorer than it would otherwise have been is overwhelmingly probable. The UK did well inside the EU. It is unlikely to do as well outside it."

Other than that, he says he thinks that the financial sector's role in trading Euro-dominated assets would appear to be stuffed, investment will be down, manufacturers considering how to trade with Europe including whether to relocate, basically what lots of other people are now saying. That the asset markets are likely to be unstable for years and the loss of confidence in the UK, especially on top of Osborne's huge borrowing, may be so great the UK authorities are unable to handle it and require sizable foreign assistance. If anyone is prepared to offer any, that is, and at what cost?

And, finally, that if the UK sticks two fingers up at the EU it shouldn't be surprised or complain if the EU replies in kind.

[NonOxCol]

Fuckwittery, part ninety four thousand and ninety four:

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