Monday 27th June 2016

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:44 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Rebecca wrote:Feeling better now.
Chardonnay.

Ooooh...Envy emotion.

Now your lfts are fine would an occasional glass of wine hurt?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:44 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
“No-one on the leave side doesn’t want free trade with Europe,” prominent pro-leave MEP Daniel Hannan just said on BBC News.

As far as Europe goes, it should be possible to stay inside an arrangement with the EU with bilateral deals, which would allow for free movement, but what we will not have are foreign courts deciding who can come into the UK.
Graun live

wtf does this mean?

Do they have a clue?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:44 pm

Boris Johnson slammed for bunking off Brexit fall-out Commons debate

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bo ... it-8296470

More: Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:48 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I've no idea what's going on.[/quoteBBB

1An assortment of non Labour members are amassed showing their loyalty to the leader of a Party they aren't a member of.
2.Long term members/MP's are being traitors,automatic Blairites pond life and being told to piss off out of the party by non members,past members of convenience and its my party not anybody elses brave loyalists.

Makes perfect sense really.

So Hindle, I assume that Corbyn will get beaten when the membership is consulted so then should be okay...must have been mistaken when I thought he walked the election last year

Perhaps you want 'long-term members' to get double votes?

The left had to live through purges in the Blair years and deselections.......

A mere outlining of what is happening.None of it untrue.

To answer,even though none of them were relevant to any points I did or didn't make if there were any there in the first place.

1.I think he will get back in,yes he did,unless traitorous Blairites have historically revised all records.
2.The relevance of the mention of "long term" was to emphasise how thoroughly disloyal they obviously are,not to give them a higher status.You can take from.that my view of "having two votes"
3.No mention of left/right ,purges,deselections etc was contained,my memory is longer my whole bloody local party got suspended and membership scrutinised,so I am not unaware of such things.

4.Above all,not wise to take me seriously.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:48 pm

Temulkar wrote:Who was the mp who claimed there was no orchestrated campaign to drip drip?

Just some lying fucker I suppose.

edited to add;sorry,that's the wine talking

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:52 pm

i value all the views here but I don't want Corbyn to trigger article 50*. I don't think it's an answer to anything at this stage, and doing it because someone else said we would is not really a good enough reason. have read and agree with views on democracy etc, but this is a godawful mess and we need to consider rightly of the matter before deciding how to proceed. 2 years is a very short time to sort out this scale of bollx - I don't think we can do it.

*directly after a GE or indirectly as leader of the opposition.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:57 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 05561.html

BREXIT. Taking the Great out of Britain.
Oh - and the Britain.

Have a thousand recommends for that.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:57 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:i value all the views here but I don't want Corbyn to trigger article 50*. I don't think it's an answer to anything at this stage, and doing it because someone else said we would is not really a good enough reason. have read and agree with views on democracy etc, but this is a godawful mess and we need to consider rightly of the matter before deciding how to proceed. 2 years is a very short time to sort out this scale of bollx - I don't think we can do it.

*directly after a GE or indirectly as leader of the opposition.

I think we should trigger A50 - it was us who had the referendum and ignored the warnings

Why should we wait......and the people who voted Leave have made it clear they don't care so who are the minority to deny them what they want?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 7:57 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:i value all the views here but I don't want Corbyn to trigger article 50*. I don't think it's an answer to anything at this stage, and doing it because someone else said we would is not really a good enough reason. have read and agree with views on democracy etc, but this is a godawful mess and we need to consider rightly of the matter before deciding how to proceed. 2 years is a very short time to sort out this scale of bollx - I don't think we can do it.

*directly after a GE or indirectly as leader of the opposition.

I think we should trigger A50 - it was us who had the referendum and ignored the warnings

Why should we wait......and the people who voted Leave have made it clear they don't care so who are the minority to deny them what they want?

no. it wasn't.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:00 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:i value all the views here but I don't want Corbyn to trigger article 50*. I don't think it's an answer to anything at this stage, and doing it because someone else said we would is not really a good enough reason. have read and agree with views on democracy etc, but this is a godawful mess and we need to consider rightly of the matter before deciding how to proceed. 2 years is a very short time to sort out this scale of bollx - I don't think we can do it.

*directly after a GE or indirectly as leader of the opposition.

I think we should trigger A50 - it was us who had the referendum and ignored the warnings

Why should we wait......and the people who voted Leave have made it clear they don't care so who are the minority to deny them what they want?
no. it wasn't.

Yes it was...it was in the manifesto of a majority elected Government....when I say 'we' I mean the British people. Carried by a majority of 6 to 1 in the HoC

It was a crap idea but surely that is what democracy is about?

It may be in Britain's short term favour to delay but I think it will just postpone the reckoning and destroy our credibility further

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:01 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:i value all the views here but I don't want Corbyn to trigger article 50*. I don't think it's an answer to anything at this stage, and doing it because someone else said we would is not really a good enough reason. have read and agree with views on democracy etc, but this is a godawful mess and we need to consider rightly of the matter before deciding how to proceed. 2 years is a very short time to sort out this scale of bollx - I don't think we can do it.

*directly after a GE or indirectly as leader of the opposition.

I think we should trigger A50 - it was us who had the referendum and ignored the warnings

Why should we wait......and the people who voted Leave have made it clear they don't care so who are the minority to deny them what they want?

If you read article 50 you will understand why triggering it is a stunningly bad idea.

Sorry to have a pop but Corbyn is utterly irresponsible ( bordering on treasonous) to suggest it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:01 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
HindleA wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I've no idea what's going on.[/quoteBBB

1An assortment of non Labour members are amassed showing their loyalty to the leader of a Party they aren't a member of.
2.Long term members/MP's are being traitors,automatic Blairites pond life and being told to piss off out of the party by non members,past members of convenience and its my party not anybody elses brave loyalists.

Makes perfect sense really.
I wonder who they will vote for come a GE?

Actually there is a bit of a surge in membership again. People are joining Labour so they can support Corbyn.

Up the workers

But are they ALL the correct members for the task ahead.To work all valiant saviours.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:03 pm

Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Rebecca wrote:Feeling better now.
Chardonnay.

Ooooh...Envy emotion.
Now your lfts are fine would an occasional glass of wine hurt?

It's a genetic thing. I've got non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, and doc thinks I'm at the beginning of drug induced cirrhosis. My readings are still out of whack although they're gradually coming down. I daren't risk it kicking it off, so am nursing it along because I've refused further investigation while Mr Ohso is ill.
I'm afraid it's tee-total all the way until I get the thumbs down, then I'm breaking out the gin with a vengeance.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:05 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Just seen an ex-member of SC (don't know who it was) saying that he was for an argument against Free Movement - how does that work with all these people whp are keen on remain? I though Corbyn was bad because he wasn't supportive enough

It is as I said before there is absolutely no clear from those complaining what the want!!!!

And he also said it was coordinated

It was Owen Smith (assuming he's the only one to say it).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:05 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Politicians responsible for explaining what's at stake have admitted they may have fudged some of the consequences.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 05481.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm still not convinced that going through with this is honourable.

I agree with you.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:06 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:i value all the views here but I don't want Corbyn to trigger article 50*. I don't think it's an answer to anything at this stage, and doing it because someone else said we would is not really a good enough reason. have read and agree with views on democracy etc, but this is a godawful mess and we need to consider rightly of the matter before deciding how to proceed. 2 years is a very short time to sort out this scale of bollx - I don't think we can do it.

*directly after a GE or indirectly as leader of the opposition.

I think we should trigger A50 - it was us who had the referendum and ignored the warnings

Why should we wait......and the people who voted Leave have made it clear they don't care so who are the minority to deny them what they want?
If you read article 50 you will understand why triggering it is a stunningly bad idea.

Sorry to have a pop but Corbyn is utterly irresponsible ( bordering on treasonous) to suggest it.

I have read it......it isn't particularly long and the words aren't too difficult for me.

The reason we cannot trigger A50 is that the Leave group haven't got a plan....and are totally disorganised - a shambles in fact

Cameron said he would trigger it and didn't - another lie!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:06 pm

I firmly believe that going out will cause harm to the people who voted for it. If more than half of MPs also believe that it will cause more measurable harm to do it than not, is it ethical to go through with it?

My feeling is no.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:08 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:I firmly believe that going out will cause harm to the people who voted for it. If more than half of MPs also believe that it will cause more measurable harm to do it than not, is it ethical to go through with it?

My feeling is no.

You are of course right....but it will never happen

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:15 pm

Javid and Crabb to run on joint ticket for Tory leadership bid.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:18 pm

George Eaton reckons that a big story to break claiming Jeremy voted Leave. How anyone else apart from JC would know what happens in the privacy of the ballot box escapes me.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:18 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Javid and Crabb to run on joint ticket for Tory leadership bid.

FFS - hope you are joking?

Are they going for the Welsh vote - mind you seeing th Welsh voted for Leave nothing would surprise me

And I thought Labour were devoid of talent

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:19 pm

I read somewhere that David Miliband is in this country,maybe he's their secret weapon.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:21 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:i value all the views here but I don't want Corbyn to trigger article 50*. I don't think it's an answer to anything at this stage, and doing it because someone else said we would is not really a good enough reason. have read and agree with views on democracy etc, but this is a godawful mess and we need to consider rightly of the matter before deciding how to proceed. 2 years is a very short time to sort out this scale of bollx - I don't think we can do it.

*directly after a GE or indirectly as leader of the opposition.

I think we should trigger A50 - it was us who had the referendum and ignored the warnings

Why should we wait......and the people who voted Leave have made it clear they don't care so who are the minority to deny them what they want?
If you read article 50 you will understand why triggering it is a stunningly bad idea.

Sorry to have a pop but Corbyn is utterly irresponsible ( bordering on treasonous) to suggest it.

I'm dim on finance and all the ins and outs of treaties so this is a genuine ask.

How much patience have the EU and companies got? They are already pushing. Surely they don't want to be left hanging too long? Doesn't that create uncertainties in the market? We've just had our credit rating downgraded.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:23 pm

The BBC’s political editor Laura Kuenssberg is reporting that Peter Mandelson is being floated as a possible leadership candidate.

— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbcIaurak)
June 27, 2016

BREAKING: Understand Peter Mandelson is being suggested by MPs as a potential candidate to oppose Corbyns in a leadership contest.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:23 pm

Peter. Mandelson.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:24 pm

Rebecca wrote:
Temulkar wrote:Who was the mp who claimed there was no orchestrated campaign to drip drip?
Just some lying fucker I suppose.

edited to add;sorry,that's the wine talking

Lucy Powell when interviewed by Nick Robinson on Today.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:24 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
I think we should trigger A50 - it was us who had the referendum and ignored the warnings

Why should we wait......and the people who voted Leave have made it clear they don't care so who are the minority to deny them what they want?
If you read article 50 you will understand why triggering it is a stunningly bad idea.

Sorry to have a pop but Corbyn is utterly irresponsible ( bordering on treasonous) to suggest it.
I'm dim on finance and all the ins and outs of treaties so this is a genuine ask.

How much patience have the EU and companies got? They are already pushing. Surely they don't want to be left hanging too long? Doesn't that create uncertainties in the market? We've just had our credit rating downgraded.

Depends - can't force it but they can make it very difficult for us

I wrote a post on my thoughts earlier on

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:25 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Peter. Mandelson.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:26 pm

England losing to Iceland.
And I'm pleased.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:26 pm

And anyway isn't it the Tories who have to make the final decision? If they stay true to form surely they'll fudge and delay and hope 'something comes along'?
Or, have I read it correctly and a vote has to be taken by MPs before anything can be done?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:27 pm

Craig Woodhouse ✔ @craigawoodhouse
Presumably we're losing to Iceland as part of some deal to get into the EEA.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:27 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Javid and Crabb to run on joint ticket for Tory leadership bid.

FFS - hope you are joking?

Are they going for the Welsh vote - mind you seeing th Welsh voted for Leave nothing would surprise me

And I thought Labour were devoid of talent

Nope, Sky news had an item on it a few mins ago, and i just noticed Tim Shipman has laid claim to breaking it 8 weeks ago in the Sunday Times

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:28 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: If you read article 50 you will understand why triggering it is a stunningly bad idea.

Sorry to have a pop but Corbyn is utterly irresponsible ( bordering on treasonous) to suggest it.
I'm dim on finance and all the ins and outs of treaties so this is a genuine ask.

How much patience have the EU and companies got? They are already pushing. Surely they don't want to be left hanging too long? Doesn't that create uncertainties in the market? We've just had our credit rating downgraded.

Depends - can't force it but they can make it very difficult for us

I wrote a post on my thoughts earlier on

I think we can agree that whatever happens we're in deep doo-doos.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:29 pm

ohsocynical wrote:And anyway isn't it the Tories who have to make the final decision? If they stay true to form surely they'll fudge and delay and hope 'something comes along'?
Or, have I read it correctly and a vote has to be taken by MPs before anything can be done?

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06 ... able-role/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
bunch of lawyers say it needs authorization through an Act of Parliament

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:30 pm

Paul Kirby @paul1kirby
2-1, England? Lacking respect for foreigners. No single marking. Not enough freedom of movement.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:31 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:The BBC’s political editor Laura Kuenssberg is reporting that Peter Mandelson is being floated as a possible leadership candidate.

— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbcIaurak)
June 27, 2016

BREAKING: Understand Peter Mandelson is being suggested by MPs as a potential candidate to oppose Corbyns in a leadership contest.

Well he's right up Blairs arse. That'll go down well with the membership.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:33 pm

The leader of the Labour party doesn't need to be an MP?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:34 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:The BBC’s political editor Laura Kuenssberg is reporting that Peter Mandelson is being floated as a possible leadership candidate.

— Laura Kuenssberg (@bbcIaurak)
June 27, 2016

BREAKING: Understand Peter Mandelson is being suggested by MPs as a potential candidate to oppose Corbyns in a leadership contest.

Seriously? God. I'd have to vote for Jeremy Corbyn if that's the calibre of his opposition.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:34 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Peter. Mandelson.

I think it unlikely.

Edit

Unless the plan is to lose abd immediately trigger another contest to make a point.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:36 pm

Mandy vs Jeremy in a democratic vote to members, ? Bring it on.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:36 pm

citizenJA wrote:The leader of the Labour party doesn't need to be an MP?

Not necessarily but he can now resign his peerage and I am sure some lickspittle would resign his/her seat - fuck knows if he would win though!!!!

Can you imagine Corbyn campaigning for him lol

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:37 pm

New poll puts Labour ahead of Tories for first time since Jeremy Corbyn became leader

YouGov’s director says the Conservatives’ 'Euro squabbles' are 'hurting the party’s image'

http://linkis.com/independent.co.uk/EbSPT

What. A. Waste.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:39 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Peter. Mandelson.

I think it unlikely.

Edit

Unless the plan is to lose abd immediately trigger another contest to make a point.

They'll try every trick in the book. I think that's becoming obvious.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:39 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
Temulkar wrote:Who was the mp who claimed there was no orchestrated campaign to drip drip?
Just some lying fucker I suppose.

edited to add;sorry,that's the wine talking
Lucy Powell when interviewed by Nick Robinson on Today.

Owen Smith admitted live on air that it was being orchestrated, and fair play condemned the plotters for that.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:46 pm

Peter Mandleson - someone must be having a laugh - he is despised by everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:46 pm

A lot of pretend Socialists with their Chardonnay and Vermouth I don't even know what the latter is.Us real Socialists don't indullge in such bourgoise pretensions,really is a disgrace they don't comply with the rule book on this,I bet they haven't even read it .Tsk.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:47 pm

Temulkar wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
Rebecca wrote: Just some lying fucker I suppose.

edited to add;sorry,that's the wine talking
Lucy Powell when interviewed by Nick Robinson on Today.
Owen Smith admitted live on air that it was being orchestrated, and fair play condemned the plotters for that.

If some of the resignations can be shown to not be part of some sort of plot....such as them condemning them like Smith did then perhaps, and just perhaps, that may open it up for more credible contenders

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:47 pm

That was a pretty big rally in London. Corbyn spoke. Said those who wanted a change in leadership must take part in a fair election. Skinner turned up to give support. A great cheer for him.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:48 pm

There was something a bit unsettling about the way John McDonnell was behaving. And I usually like John McDonnell.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 27 Jun, 2016 8:48 pm

HindleA wrote:A lot of pretend Socialists with their Chardonnay and Vermouth I don't even know what the latter is.Us real Socialists don't indullge in such bourgoise pretensions,really is a disgrace they don't comply with the rule book on this,I bet they haven't even read it .Tsk.

I had a Pukka Pie washed down with Dandelion and Burdock......think I am a proper prole!