Friday 1st July 2016

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 1:33 pm

Makes a change from them doing it with Corbyn, I suppose.

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 1:39 pm

My daydream is that after Chilcott,Jeremy would say he is now going to sue everyone that has lied about him.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 1:39 pm

PLB:

Michael Gove has never been on Twitter before, but times are changing fast and his leadership campaign’s official profile has more than 500 followers already.

His biography calls him: “Father, husband, MP for Surrey Heath, QPR fan & Leave campaigner. 2016 Conservative leadership candidate. Professional idiot. #Gove2016”.

If only...

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 1:43 pm

ohsocynical wrote:An article regarding the EU's decision to agree the CETA trade agreement without resorting to consultation with national governments of EU member states. They hope to complete negotiations by October. It now appears TTIP is on the rocks because of Brexit but if we're still in the EU by October we could be affected by CETA. There is a link in this article - please sign to prevent us being embroiled in the EU's trade agreement with Canada: "If CETA is ratified before Britain’s Article 50 exit negotiations are complete, the UK will be exposed to corporate action through ISDS courts for 20 years after its departure.
http://e-activist.com/ea-action/action? ... n.id=49561" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CETA: EU and Canada agree on new approach on investment in trade agreement
This agreement is a clear break from the current ISDS system and shows the commitment to work together to establish a multilateral investment tribunal
http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/ ... fm?id=1468" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The legal review of the text has been completed and will now be translated into all EU official languages. At a later stage, the agreement will need to be approved by the Council and the European Parliament. The trade negotiating mandate was made public in December 2015.
For more details read the factsheet "Trade Negotiations Step by Step"

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countr ... es/canada/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ISDS has been totally changed since negotiations started, and like TTIP, all details are on on the EU web site,

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 1:52 pm

Apparently the list of 500 Labour councillors who were said to oppose Corbyn has, er, "disappeared".

I can't be arsed to look for it.

Quite a lot of councillors were irate that their names were on without their consent. Mainly because they don't oppose Corbyn.

Whoops!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 1:58 pm

David Osland ‏@David__Osland 20h20 hours ago

Not saying that tonight's Hackney North CLP meeting is akin to a penalty shoot-out, but it's going out live on Sky Sports #LabourCoup

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:00 pm

The Int'l Spectator ‏@intlspectator 23m23 minutes ago

BREAKING: French President Hollande says Brexit cannot, under any circumstances, be cancelled or delayed

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:06 pm

Am I right in thinking May has no chance of getting elected by the party members if she doesn't say she supports brexit?
The world's gone mad, I find myself hoping that a tory is lying to me.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:09 pm

ohsocynical wrote:The Int'l Spectator ‏@intlspectator 23m23 minutes ago

BREAKING: French President Hollande says Brexit cannot, under any circumstances, be cancelled or delayed

Is it for him to say?
It's to be in accordance with our constitutional arrangements.
The EU should have thought of this when they wrote article 50.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:12 pm

...and so it begins
"Thirdly, push through a wave of deregulation. The Left will hate it, but Britain's economic future is now clear. We will be a free-wheeling offshore state that acts as a bridge between Europe and the rest of the world. Think Singapore, except bigger and with worse weather.

We should scrap EU-mandated labour market regulations and social protections as fast as possible. There is no reason why we should accept European limits on how many hours people do in the office - so long as we have a minimum wage in place, which we do, then it is up to every individual how long a shift he or she wants to put in. Issues such as parental leave can be freely agreed between companies and staff. Employers who want to hire lots of young women, the best educated, most skilled part of the workforce, will be generous; others less so. But business can decide for itself."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... right-fut/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:14 pm

gilsey wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:The Int'l Spectator ‏@intlspectator 23m23 minutes ago

BREAKING: French President Hollande says Brexit cannot, under any circumstances, be cancelled or delayed
Is it for him to say?
It's to be in accordance with our constitutional arrangements.
The EU should have thought of this when they wrote article 50.

You are theoretically correct but he is on the other side of the negotiation and has the right to have his say

If we delay too long..and they have been very generous so far...I think there will be repercussions when it comes to negotiating

Europeans think we are stupid and are getting a bit annoyed with us from my own experience

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:19 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
gilsey wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:The Int'l Spectator ‏@intlspectator 23m23 minutes ago

BREAKING: French President Hollande says Brexit cannot, under any circumstances, be cancelled or delayed
Is it for him to say?
It's to be in accordance with our constitutional arrangements.
The EU should have thought of this when they wrote article 50.
You are theoretically correct but he is on the other side of the negotiation and has the right to have his say

If we delay too long..and they have been very generous so far...I think there will be repercussions when it comes to negotiating

Europeans think we are stupid and are getting a bit annoyed with us from my own experience

He has the right to have his say, but that's what it is, it's not the legal position.

We are stupid, there's no doubt about that.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:24 pm

While any deal which did not protect Labour’s main priorities would “have severe consequences for jobs and protection at work”, McDonnell indicated that, even then, the party would not try to block departure from the EU. “We have to respect the decision that was made in the referendum,” he said. “Otherwise we undermine all confidence in our democratic process.”

The referendum wasn't democratic and it isn't legally binding. What the Tories have done with their flawed, poorly prepared rushed referendum is reckless and will literally (in breaking up the union) destroy our country. To support the result is not to support our representative democracy but to bring it into disrepute. For the love of God can Labour just shut up and let the Tories make this mistake on their own and stop trying to take some of the credit for the most wanton act of foolhardy self-harm a supposedly advanced economy has ever attempted.

Edited to add link:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -of-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:29 pm

Vengeful Tory threatens to slice off Gove's penis
"A vengeful Boris-backing MP has escalated the Tory war by threatening to cut off Michael Gove’s penis.
Honourable member Ben Wallace voiced the gory desire when he was asked on Twitter which Game of Thrones character the Justice Secretary most resembled.
He replied: “He is actually Theon Greyjoy or will be by the time I am finished with him.”
The popular TV drama sees Theon locked in a dungeon where he has his skin flayed and his member dismembered.
The severed appendage is then posted with a threatening letter to his family."

I don't like Gove at all, but this kind of talk on a public medium ? Where are we heading?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/li ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 2:50 pm

Today's Honest BBC Headline:

: Gove.jpg (35.86 KiB) Viewed 6608 times

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:09 pm

ohsocynical wrote:With apologies to CJA:

Seán Duffy ‏@seantduffy 11h11 hours ago

Apparently Tristram Hunt's constituency in Stoke voted unanimously in favour of Corbyn, and a unanimous no confidence in Hunt

I'm not aware the official vote has taken place yet.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:09 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:11 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:With apologies to CJA:

Seán Duffy ‏@seantduffy 11h11 hours ago

Apparently Tristram Hunt's constituency in Stoke voted unanimously in favour of Corbyn, and a unanimous no confidence in Hunt
I'm not aware the official vote has taken place yet.

They had the letter on Twitter.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:13 pm

Faisal IslamVerified account
‏@faisalislam
Worth noting that there are other methods to leave EU than Article 50 say Tory MPs -unilateral repeal of European Comminities Act, for ex

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:18 pm

Sky News NewsdeskVerified account
‏@SkyNewsBreak
Sky Sources: Airline #easyJet has opened talks with EU governments about moving its legal headquarters out of the UK

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:20 pm

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 1h1 hour ago
Blimey 48% of 1600 votes on here saying we'll "never" invoke article 50 - could be because we pursue different Brexit route or no Brexit

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:23 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:...and so it begins
"Thirdly, push through a wave of deregulation. The Left will hate it, but Britain's economic future is now clear. We will be a free-wheeling offshore state that acts as a bridge between Europe and the rest of the world. Think Singapore, except bigger and with worse weather.

We should scrap EU-mandated labour market regulations and social protections as fast as possible. There is no reason why we should accept European limits on how many hours people do in the office - so long as we have a minimum wage in place, which we do, then it is up to every individual how long a shift he or she wants to put in. Issues such as parental leave can be freely agreed between companies and staff. Employers who want to hire lots of young women, the best educated, most skilled part of the workforce, will be generous; others less so. But business can decide for itself."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... right-fut/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That piece also says we should have unrestricted immigration for the forseeable future - that combined with the above would cause serious social unrest.

"A bright future", indeed.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:27 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:...and so it begins
"Thirdly, push through a wave of deregulation. The Left will hate it, but Britain's economic future is now clear. We will be a free-wheeling offshore state that acts as a bridge between Europe and the rest of the world. Think Singapore, except bigger and with worse weather.

We should scrap EU-mandated labour market regulations and social protections as fast as possible. There is no reason why we should accept European limits on how many hours people do in the office - so long as we have a minimum wage in place, which we do, then it is up to every individual how long a shift he or she wants to put in. Issues such as parental leave can be freely agreed between companies and staff. Employers who want to hire lots of young women, the best educated, most skilled part of the workforce, will be generous; others less so. But business can decide for itself."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... right-fut/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That piece also says we should have unrestricted immigration for the forseeable future - that combined with the above would cause serious social unrest.

"A bright future", indeed.

Totally agree, but we seem to be in the hands of spivs now

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:30 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:With apologies to CJA:

Seán Duffy ‏@seantduffy 11h11 hours ago

Apparently Tristram Hunt's constituency in Stoke voted unanimously in favour of Corbyn, and a unanimous no confidence in Hunt
I'm not aware the official vote has taken place yet.
They had the letter on Twitter.

The quote below is inaccurate.

"Tristram Hunt's constituency in Stoke voted unanimously in favour of Corbyn, and a unanimous no confidence in Hunt"

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:35 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote: I'm not aware the official vote has taken place yet.
They had the letter on Twitter.
The quote below is inaccurate.
"Tristram Hunt's constituency in Stoke voted unanimously in favour of Corbyn, and a unanimous no confidence in Hunt"

Hi cJA, can you give us the accurate information please?
Many thanks

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 3:38 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote: I'm not aware the official vote has taken place yet.
They had the letter on Twitter.
The quote below is inaccurate.
"Tristram Hunt's constituency in Stoke voted unanimously in favour of Corbyn, and a unanimous no confidence in Hunt"

Something weired going on here
Tristram Hunt ‏@TristramHuntMP 1h1 hour ago
.@jeremyforlabour er, except they didn't. CLP has yet to meet. https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... uth-smeeth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
#kindergentlerpolitics

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:00 pm

Willow904 wrote:
While any deal which did not protect Labour’s main priorities would “have severe consequences for jobs and protection at work”, McDonnell indicated that, even then, the party would not try to block departure from the EU. “We have to respect the decision that was made in the referendum,” he said. “Otherwise we undermine all confidence in our democratic process.”
The referendum wasn't democratic and it isn't legally binding. What the Tories have done with their flawed, poorly prepared rushed referendum is reckless and will literally (in breaking up the union) destroy our country. To support the result is not to support our representative democracy but to bring it into disrepute. For the love of God can Labour just shut up and let the Tories make this mistake on their own and stop trying to take some of the credit for the most wanton act of foolhardy self-harm a supposedly advanced economy has ever attempted.

Edited to add link:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -of-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Log time lurker here - been following silently ( I registered on the night of the last election - but in the emotional meltdown of dismay...forgot my passwords - I was briefly 'Paddington Bear' )
I've voted Labour ever since I could first vote. I've been a member since the early 80s - but Willow has nailed it there... not just for me but for so many people I talk to.
My vote is going to whoever says 'this is just stupid and we shouldn't do it'.
I'm so tired of hearing that ' The British public voted for this'... No WE did not. Close to half of us who voted are appalled at the stupidity of Cameron for lighting the fuse on this.
Anyone who just nods it along - and I include Misters Corbyn and McDonnell , isn't getting my vote or support.

..and , breathe...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:04 pm

Hello, Lost Soul. Welcome.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:07 pm

@ Lost Soul

Hello!

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:11 pm

Yo.

and thank you

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:18 pm

Lost Soul 3pm -- and if there's ever a Tory back-track, or 'progress' in negotiations becomes moribund ( Doha) , the LP should be on the right side , having not just 'gone along' with the Tories .

After all, it's been pointed out by several people that the Antis remained so for forty-odd years .

However, just about anything we say now could be overtaken by 'events'

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:19 pm

Good to see some newbies here

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:19 pm

Stoke-on-Trent Central West Branch meeting had fourteen attendees - I was one of them.
According the the official minutes, twelve of them voted on a couple of motions.
I didn't vote on those motions.

The Constituency Labour Party (CLP) hasn't met to vote on the motions.

The person(s) posting the tweet have made a mistake. The CLP hasn't met and voted unanimously or otherwise on the topic posted.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:26 pm

The tweet below isn't accurate.

https://twitter.com/jeremyforlabour/sta ... 1449614337

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:27 pm

That's mark Fisher's old CLP isn't it? I hate to think what he is thinking of all of this.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:30 pm

citizenJA wrote:Stoke-on-Trent Central West Branch meeting had fourteen attendees - I was one of them.
According the the official minutes, twelve of them voted on a couple of motions.
I didn't vote on those motions.

The Constituency Labour Party (CLP) hasn't met to vote on the motions.

The person(s) posting the tweet have made a mistake. The CLP hasn't met and voted unanimously or otherwise on the topic posted.

looks like mischief makers.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:53 pm

The game between Dustin Brown and Nick Kyrgios is going into the 5th. set - the first four took just 1hr.42mins. Bonkers.

Brown s a brilliant and gorgeous as ever - and Kyrgios is actually behaving himself. Terrific stuff.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 4:55 pm

Hello Lost Soul - have a pew and a nice cup of coffee. You are very welcome.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:01 pm

Lost Soul wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
While any deal which did not protect Labour’s main priorities would “have severe consequences for jobs and protection at work”, McDonnell indicated that, even then, the party would not try to block departure from the EU. “We have to respect the decision that was made in the referendum,” he said. “Otherwise we undermine all confidence in our democratic process.”
The referendum wasn't democratic and it isn't legally binding. What the Tories have done with their flawed, poorly prepared rushed referendum is reckless and will literally (in breaking up the union) destroy our country. To support the result is not to support our representative democracy but to bring it into disrepute. For the love of God can Labour just shut up and let the Tories make this mistake on their own and stop trying to take some of the credit for the most wanton act of foolhardy self-harm a supposedly advanced economy has ever attempted.

Edited to add link:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -of-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Log time lurker here - been following silently ( I registered on the night of the last election - but in the emotional meltdown of dismay...forgot my passwords - I was briefly 'Paddington Bear' )
I've voted Labour ever since I could first vote. I've been a member since the early 80s - but Willow has nailed it there... not just for me but for so many people I talk to.
My vote is going to whoever says 'this is just stupid and we shouldn't do it'.
I'm so tired of hearing that ' The British public voted for this'... No WE did not. Close to half of us who voted are appalled at the stupidity of Cameron for lighting the fuse on this.
Anyone who just nods it along - and I include Misters Corbyn and McDonnell , isn't getting my vote or support.

..and , breathe...

Hi Lost Soul.

Nice to see you here. I think the true scale of the political fall out from this hasn't really started to hit many politicians yet. Labour especially is in a real pickle because it went into the referendum as a multicultural, progressive pro-EU party as shaped by Ed Miliband but is coming out the other side as a eurosceptic, let's get on with Lexit party under Corbyn and that is bound to lead to some sizeable shifts in support, as far as I can see. A party I can't see place like London and Bristol supporting.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:11 pm

OMG - rain stops play at 3 games all, final set, break point......Corbyn's fault, obvs.

Ooh I think I need a lie down....

Show's getting a rest in now because of the Wales game tonight. (He gets terribly excited....)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:27 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 13526.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pandora's can of worms

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:30 pm

More than £650m of commercial property deals in the City of London have collapsed following the UK’s vote to leave the EU, including the proposed acquisition of a landmark office block by Germany’s Union Investment.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/123c044c-3f67 ... z4DAv5codh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to an estate agent I've been talking to, it hasn't affected the domestic housing market yet, but they anticipate it will....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:31 pm

It wouldn't be democratic to change the voting system without a referendum though would it ?
Or do Kippers just make it up as they go along ?

I had hoped Farage would go off with his fags and pints after the referendum.
He's proving just how dangerous he is now. Probably stands in front of the mirror at night raising his arm in a fascist salute.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:33 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 14176.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More than 300 German academics have called on Angela Merkel to show solidarity with UK citizens who voted Remain during the forthoming negotiations over Brexit.

In an open letter to the German Chancellor, they asked her to protect the rights of "British Europeans" in any future deals with Britain.

good

Tiz · Post by **Tiz** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:33 pm

ephemerid wrote:OMG - rain stops play at 3 games all, final set, break point......Corbyn's fault, obvs.

Ooh I think I need a lie down....

Show's getting a rest in now because of the Wales game tonight. (He gets terribly excited....)

I know - what a moment eh? I love Dustin Brown. Mind you, I wasn't feeling the love when he dumped Nadal out a few years ago. Anyway...

Greetings all,

Today I was at a 'brunch' which was also attended by a friend of mine who voted leave. As you might imagine, it has put a huge strain on our friendship. At one point she basically told me to "get over it". To which I responded that she doesn't get to tell my when I feel angry and she doesn't get to tell me when I stop feeling angry, and worried. Then I commented that it hasn't actually happened yet - I was meaning things are going to get worse. But she replied that I was right, it hadn't happened and may never happen and that was OK she wouldn't be bothered by that.

At which point my brain exploded. I am still trying to put the pieces back together.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:35 pm

Rachael ‏@Rachael_Swindon 21h21 hours ago
Evening @UKLabour @angelaeagle @jeremycorbyn I had a little poll. Over 10,000 votes in 24hrs. 3 in 4 back Corbyn.

This lady had a poll on the Referendum, and got the result exactly right.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:37 pm

http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/01/in-pictur ... d-5979400/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
the last week in pictures

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:38 pm

Ceredigion Labour have expressed their support for Corbyn.
They condemn members of the PLP for trying to undermine the leadership by subverting the democratic process of the party.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:40 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Lost Soul wrote:
Willow904 wrote: The referendum wasn't democratic and it isn't legally binding. What the Tories have done with their flawed, poorly prepared rushed referendum is reckless and will literally (in breaking up the union) destroy our country. To support the result is not to support our representative democracy but to bring it into disrepute. For the love of God can Labour just shut up and let the Tories make this mistake on their own and stop trying to take some of the credit for the most wanton act of foolhardy self-harm a supposedly advanced economy has ever attempted.

Edited to add link:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -of-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Log time lurker here - been following silently ( I registered on the night of the last election - but in the emotional meltdown of dismay...forgot my passwords - I was briefly 'Paddington Bear' )
I've voted Labour ever since I could first vote. I've been a member since the early 80s - but Willow has nailed it there... not just for me but for so many people I talk to.
My vote is going to whoever says 'this is just stupid and we shouldn't do it'.
I'm so tired of hearing that ' The British public voted for this'... No WE did not. Close to half of us who voted are appalled at the stupidity of Cameron for lighting the fuse on this.
Anyone who just nods it along - and I include Misters Corbyn and McDonnell , isn't getting my vote or support.

..and , breathe...
Hi Lost Soul.

Nice to see you here. I think the true scale of the political fall out from this hasn't really started to hit many politicians yet. Labour especially is in a real pickle because it went into the referendum as a multicultural, progressive pro-EU party as shaped by Ed Miliband but is coming out the other side as a eurosceptic, let's get on with Lexit party under Corbyn and that is bound to lead to some sizeable shifts in support, as far as I can see. A party I can't see place like London and Bristol supporting.

Hi from me as well Lost Soul

I would like to add my musings to the debate on the referendum

Firstly, can all labour supporters, members etc stop saying that Corbyn is to blame for the Leave result. This is now becoming ingrained with he voters and is so much of an untruth that I am prepared to call it a lie when used by some people (Jamie Reed for one).

The fault lies in a few places

Calling a referendum Cameron
Badly phrasing terms Cameron
Lying during the campaign Johnson/Gove
Lack of rigour Most of the people who voted Leave (definitely not all)

There are others such as A. Johnson (what a loser that man is...has he ever done anything of merit as a politician?), Benn, May etc who were invisible and others such as Corbyn, Farron etc who could have had a bigger profile. Gisela Stuart is also worthy of a dishonourable mention

The New Statesman article was definite (and no Corbyn lovers over there) - this was lost by the Tories. labour performed as well as it could be expected today, even better in some areas. Would you know that from the reaction of the PLP though?

The Europeans aren't blaming Corbyn...they are laying it at the feet of Cameron and Johnson but here, members of the PLP are going out and making it sound like Corbyn was solely to blame and some even being supportive of the man who is the actual culprit - the man who is swanning around as if it is nothing to do with him. The coward who resigned the morning after (although Jamie Reed sees that resignation somewhat differently)

As to what we do now - well that is difficult. I feel some are being too harsh on Corbyn here and, in my view although I profess no guarantee that I am right, in a bit of denial. We are on our way out...there is no way back in my view. I have seen no mechanism to stop this now seeing there will be no election before 2020. Euroscepticiam is in the past now...it is irrelevant. I do not think McDonnell's comments on immigration today were acceptable by the way - pandering!

It may sound great to say 'we are the party of Remain' but to me that is an irrelevance now - we are looking at who can get the best deal and it most certainly isn't Gove

It is becoming clearer to me now what a disaster this is - and from reading the Government report on Exit (why am I only reading it now...I am as culpable??????) it is criminal the behaviour of Gove and Johnson. There will be no trade deal by 2018 or 2019 unless we accept EEA unequivocally with no attempts at negotiations (and that is also assuming all goes well)

The way we are behaving with A50 delay and indications that we are going to draw it out would lay me to look at a future which would involve no extension on the 2 years (this has to be unanimously accepted and the pissing about invoking it will rule this out) and, my own personal view, Schengen. Not just free movement....Schengen

I think, again my own view, we will be so desperate to avoid WTO we will accept EEA, free movement and be forced into Schengen.....or the politicians wills that as the only option but god knows what the reaction of the electorate will be

The clear message I got from reading this was that actually the two years are determine the Exit conditions. The Single Market part of this will be - are you completely in on EEA terms? If the answer is not yes then there will be no deal by the end of the two years. We may have sorted some other things out but on A50+2 years it will be WTO and then the negotiations will start

How did Cameron let this happen without some backstop in the referendum framing....either a minimum turnout, minimum vote, clearly stating it as non-binding....or even better not having it at all

Sorry for the rant but I am a bit narked

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 01 Jul, 2016 5:41 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 14176.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More than 300 German academics have called on Angela Merkel to show solidarity with UK citizens who voted Remain during the forthoming negotiations over Brexit.

In an open letter to the German Chancellor, they asked her to protect the rights of "British Europeans" in any future deals with Britain.
good

Nice to be thought of but practically it means nothing I would guess