Monday 4th July 2016

Post by **refitman** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 7:18 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media ... 17691.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK's first ever 'pop up newspaper' to be launched in response to Brexit
The New European will discuss the failures of traditional media and politicians - and feature 'plenty of experts'

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 7:20 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 17331.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
plus cuts to corporate tax.

Well done 52%. You got your countries back

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 7:42 am

Good morning!

Today is Irony Bypass Day!

Item: Chris Bryant thinks May's 180 MPs in favour of her being PM is "terribly weak". However, 172 MPs not in favour of Corbyn, er, isn't.
Item: Telegraph headline this morning - "Boris demands post-Brexit plan" and blames government for "Diana-style hysteria".

Tessa Jowell says Andrea Leadsom is a good choice for Tory leader because she's a woman.
Not because she's a tax-dodging, hard right, generally useless sort of person who would fit right in, no.
'Cos she's not a bloke. Obviously.

AAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 7:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/ju ... ay-lawyers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A prominent law firm is taking pre-emptive legal action against the government, following the EU referendum result, to try to ensure article 50 is not triggered without an act of parliament.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 7:50 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 17331.html
plus cuts to corporate tax.

Well done 52%. You got your countries back

Morning all

And now the genius Osborne is going to cut corporation tax , reminding older citizens and any student of Economics101 of the olden days of Competitive Devaluations of currencies .

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ ... 17886.html[/url]

Meanwhile, some bond yields are already negative, with all that that implies, Hamish McCrae--

Thus German 10-year bonds yield minus 0.13 per cent, Japanese, minus 0.26 per cent, Swiss, minus 0.58 per cent. These are extreme examples of the so-called flight to quality – “safe” investments that, though you know you will lose money on them, you won’t lose too much. The entire stock of Swiss government debt is now negative, as the world pays money to lend to Switzerland.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 17326.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Come on George, do the job properly, PAY corporations to do business in the UK

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 8:01 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... cot-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A number of MPs led by Alex Salmond are expected to use an ancient law to try to impeach the former prime minister when the Chilcot report comes out on Wednesday.

The law, last used in 1806 when the Tory minister Lord Melville was charged for misappropriating official funds, is seen in Westminster as an alternative form of punishment that could ensure Blair never holds office again.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 8:39 am

Without comment, except to say that the "vile obscenity" is the C-word.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 8:49 am

Morning all. For those who haven't seen it...

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 8:57 am

Good morning all.
Given the date, an appropriate song to start the day:

[youtube]vOYI85anqmQ[/youtube]

Happy Independence Day to any Americans viewing!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 9:00 am

While in the UK legal moves and opinion columns ponder the possibility of not triggering article 50, EU officials are wondering the same thing.

Politico reports:

What if the UK never withdraws?

The EU cannot force to the UK to notify its withdrawal, but it could try to invoke sanctions under Article 7 using the rationale that the political and economic uncertainty created by the delay is undermining the union. But that’s unlikely. Tusk’s top aide [Piotr] Serafin urged national diplomats at their meeting last week to remember that the UK is going through a crisis and they should avoid escalating it by threatening sanctions.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... is-johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 9:03 am

Radio 4 headlining that Michael Gove is a gossip when in his cups, therefore a security risk.
Rupert Murdoch probably finds that his most endearing quality.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 9:15 am

yahyah wrote:Radio 4 headlining that Michael Gove is a gossip when in his cups, therefore a security risk.
Rupert Murdoch probably finds that his most endearing quality.

Unlike Cameron. Never caught out gossiping about the Queen etc ever.

discordantharmony · Post by **discordantharmony** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 9:29 am

Good morning everyone.

Have not posted in yonks’ but almost religiously followed each days posts. As my late father used to say ‘Son, far better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you’re an idiot than to open it and prove them right’.

Anyhoo, I need some advice and am unsure where to go. So considering you are pretty much the only people I ‘know’……..
A friend of mine (single mother with a child on the autistic spectrum) had to leave a short term tenancy as the landlord was selling the property (Not true as new renters have now taken over the lease). At the moment she and son are staying in her mother’s home which is officially overcrowded.

The problem is the landlord has not returned her deposit stating an unkempt garden as the only reason. At the time of her initially viewing the property my friend made clear that she ‘didn’t do gardening’ and as witnessed at the time by a Council Housing Officer was told the gardens and exteriors would be done as part of the rent.

I have checked Companies House and one of the owners of the house is a bankrupted director. Also there is serious doubt as to whether her initial deposit was placed in the Deposit Guarantee Scheme. Neighbors from that street have told me they have done this before to other renters (purely anecdotal).

My question is this. Can my friend instruct a ‘no win – no fee’ solicitor to collect the deposit money due to her whilst asking the Council (Manchester) to give her a Discretionary Housing Payment towards a deposit on another property and return that money to the Council should the solicitor be able to collect from the landlord(s). She is already on housing benefit.
I genuinely fear for this ladies sanity with everything else she has to contend with each day (As well as her son, she is also the sole carer for her mother 86).

I know it isn’t a politics issue per se but you are the only contact I pretty much have outside of doctors and psychiatrists. Any advice would be gratefully received. Thank you and Kind Regards.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 9:51 am

@discordandharmony

If your friend isn't covered by the deposit protection scheme, she'll need to sue them through the small claims court, so her first port of call would probably be citizens advice, I would have thought. There are solicitors advertising deposit retrieval services, but she may want to get a sound recommendation from a trusted third party before using one. Her contract would need to specify her being responsible for the garden and to what degree, but even if she is responsible and has left it in a mess, the landlord can only subtract the cost of tidying up and should have provided a copy of the bill and returned the remaining money, which there surely must be. Sorry I can't be more help, but others will have more tips I'm sure. Best of luck.

Edited to add link :

http://www.housingadviceni.org/advice-p ... posit-back" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:01 am

Good-morning, everyone.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:03 am

Construction falls to lowest level since 2009.

Well done Cameron etc, well done.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:04 am

discordantharmony - this is a dreadful story.

1. Your friend should get in touch with Shelter Manchester - 0161 660 8885. http://www.england.shelter.co.uk/get_ad ... manchester" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. If she can get a statement from the Council Housing Officer who witnessed the garden thing it would be good.
The Council also needs to be told that she was evicted on the basis of two falsehoods and is now homeless.

3. If the tenancy is an assured shorthold tenancy starting after April 2007, the landlord must put the deposit into a TDP.
See - http://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/overview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; If he hasn't, he is in breach of the legislation.

4. As she has a disabled child and is a carer of two people, she should be a housing need priority.
She should apply for a DHP and urgent placement on the council housing lists. http://www.gov.uk/homelessness-help-from-council" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shelter are the people most likely to be able to support her in this.
Due to government cuts, CAB are not as good as they used to be; many CABs are run by volunteers who don't have the knowledge required although some of them are very good.

I'm sure HindleA or some other folks here may have more advice they can offer.

I don't think a solicitor should be your friend's first line of enquiry - if it was me, I'd go to Shelter. They have excellent legal services.

I wish her luck. She should not be going through all this.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:12 am

From AS (which I might say has been a major beneficiary from the Brexit vote both before and after - 3,500 comments already?)

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has condemned George Osborne’s proposal to cut corporation tax to below 15%. In a statement he said:

This is a futile and costly gesture from a lame-duck chancellor who is clean out of ideas after being forced to abandon his failing flagship austerity programme. George Osborne is already set to slash corporation taxes to among the lowest rate in the G20.

But despite falling corporate tax rates UK investment has shrunk in both of the last two quarters even with record profits and UK companies sitting on a £700bn cash pile.

Instead of turning the whole country into a giant tax haven and playground for the ultra-rich, the chancellor needs to get a grip on the real problems by reversing planned cuts to government investment and bringing forward shovel-ready projects for those areas worst affected by the investment slump and the shock of Brexit.

Well quite.

Willy waving and, after the abandonment of the target to generate a surplus by 2020, a sign that they're really not bothered about the deficit any longer despite having flogged it to death over the past 6 years.

Manufacturing companies invest because:
1. New product / expansion
2. Improved technology
3. Worn out equipment
4. Safety

None of those have anything to do with minor changes to the CT rate. Utterly pointless.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:18 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-3 ... ws_central" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage to stand down"

A silver lining perchance?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:23 am

Is it naive to think that post referendum a unified Labour Party could've put enough pressure on Osborne to resign?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:24 am

Wow.

Sir Greg Martin has been told to sever all links with Durand Academy Trust or they'll have their funding terminated. He stepped down as CEO but stayed ion as chair of governors. Effectively the DfE are saying "Sorry, not enough. Get lost. And do it fast".

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _Trust.pdf

E. By 1 August 2016 secure that Sir Greg Martin resigns as Chair of Governors of DAT and ceases to be a director/trustee of DAT and from any other position with DAT. Ensure that in future Sir Greg Martin is neither employed by or acts as a trustee of DAT, or is a member of DAT (and for the avoidance of doubt, shall not act as shadow director)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:29 am

Morning All

Just to avoid criticisms we have received in the past, a reminder, as is obvious I think, that all advice given here is on a friendly, rather than professional, basis and should be taken as such.

Which was to be fair exactly what discordant harmony wanted

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:32 am

Willow904 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-3 ... ws_central

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage to stand down"

A silver lining perchance?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:33 am

StephenDolan wrote:Is it naive to think that post referendum a unified Labour Party could've put enough pressure on Osborne to resign?

That's something we'll never know...And I daresay they'll be debating it in a couple of hundred years time.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:40 am

StephenDolan wrote:Is it naive to think that post referendum a unified Labour Party could've put enough pressure on Osborne to resign?

Probably, tbh. But its still a fair point.

discordantharmony · Post by **discordantharmony** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:49 am

Ephemerid et al. Thank you so much for your input. As Paul has mentioned I appreciate the advice and fully agree that it is purely friendly advice.

Ephemerid - I was already thinking about Shelter, so many thanks for the Mcr Tel No. As you mentioned the CAB service has pretty much been decimated here over the last few years.

Anyone who read previous posts from myself about my homelessness in the past, at least back then (2006) support and organisations were way more readily available than today. I'm off out shortly to try and contact her support worker and see if we can't move this on a little this week.

Again thanks for the (informal) advice and will keep you posted.

Kind Regards.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:55 am

Farage says leave won the referendum. But leave campaigners now need to focus on getting the deal they want.

But what is it that they want? Some magic land of milk and honey.
Boris says govt should have had a plan for leave.
Why do the media give these tossers publicity.

Brexit bwrecksit.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 11:34 am

gilsey wrote:
Farage says leave won the referendum. But leave campaigners now need to focus on getting the deal they want.
But what is it that they want? Some magic land of milk and honey.
Boris says govt should have had a plan for leave.
Why do the media give these tossers publicity.

Brexit bwrecksit.

So that's Johnson & Farage running away from the wreck they caused and Gove being (apparently) side-lined. I notice that Farage is staying on as an MEP. We can't let principles get in the way of money, can we?

Now that the main players have apparently given up on their personal ambitions, one can only hope that a Commons vote on A50 will put the interests of the country first.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 11:37 am

Lovely Paul - quite right.

discordantharmony - good luck.

All - Farridge has resigned before, then de/un-resigned, then done whatever he says his people want him to do. Whatever that is.

He says that he only wanted his country back and now that he has it his job is done.
He says he was never a professional politician despite founding UKIP 23 years ago and being a MEP for 17 years.

He really is a bit of a prat.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 11:40 am

Angela Eagle saying she *will* challenge Corbyn for the leadership if he doesn't step down, and yes she really means it this time. Yes she does!

I actually don't mind her, but this past week has done her few favours.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 11:42 am

frog222 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... cot-report

A number of MPs led by Alex Salmond are expected to use an ancient law to try to impeach the former prime minister when the Chilcot report comes out on Wednesday.

The law, last used in 1806 when the Tory minister Lord Melville was charged for misappropriating official funds, is seen in Westminster as an alternative form of punishment that could ensure Blair never holds office again.

I was under the impression that to be impeached, you have to hold public office (which as far as I know, Blair doesn't).
Does he intend to run for public office again? I doubt it.
Seems like a windfall for a few lawyers - at public expense - with no particular value to anybody else.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 11:45 am

It's really p***ing me off that Osborne and everyone can now just blame their economic incompetence on Brexit.

Can he really get away again with blaming it all on someone else?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 11:51 am

Even then, the point is that Brexit is *their* fault. No surprise the attempts to blame Corbyn for it have been so frantic

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 12:28 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:It's really p***ing me off that Osborne and everyone can now just blame their economic incompetence on Brexit.

Can he really get away again with blaming it all on someone else?

Yes. This works well for Osborne as he will now not have to take responsibility for his own economic strategy not working and as no one has left the EU before, there is nothing to judge his post-Brexit performance against. He can say he minimised the impact as far as it can be and it will be hard to prove another set of actions would have been better. After all, he did warn people it would be economic Armageddon and urged them to vote remain - it was Jeremy Corbyn who told everyone leaving wouldn't be so very bad for the economy and not to listen to the Chancellor.......

Tories are scheming little bastards and have a stitch up ready for every eventuality, which is why Labour have to be very wary of their every move. Cameron not triggering article 50 straight away and launching a leadership contest was almost certainly a very carefully thought through move in a game of political chess that I wonder if anyone in Labour even realises is being played.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 12:29 pm

I don't actually find this at all surprising...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 12:31 pm

I think that is giving the Tories far too much (Machiavellian) credit, Willow. IMO they are currently flying by the seat of their pants just like the rest of us.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 12:37 pm

So Farage doesn't want to hang around and take the flak ?
What a weasel.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 12:38 pm

Incidentally, I notice that Suella Fernandes, having deleted the embarrassing tweet which indicated her support for Boris has now fallen in behind Gove.

I'm shocked etc...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 1:06 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I think that is giving the Tories far too much (Machiavellian) credit, Willow. IMO they are currently flying by the seat of their pants just like the rest of us.

I hope you're right. Boris clearly didn't get the result he wanted, but I suspect there's a back up plan. I just can't imagine them letting the City of London lose full access to the EU. They're bound to be up to something.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 1:15 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I think that is giving the Tories far too much (Machiavellian) credit, Willow. IMO they are currently flying by the seat of their pants just like the rest of us.
I hope you're right. Boris clearly didn't get the result he wanted, but I suspect there's a back up plan. I just can't imagine them letting the City of London lose full access to the EU. They're bound to be up to something.

Well I wonder what they're going to do about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36698382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shareholders in the London Stock Exchange (LSE) are voting on a planned merger with its German counterpart Deutsche Boerse.
The two agreed a $27bn (£20bn) deal earlier this year but the Brexit vote has raised questions about how it should be implemented.
The LSE chairman, Donald Brydon said he was confident of "satisfactory" regulatory approval.
But Germany's regulator has said the proposed HQ could not be in London.
"Without doubt... it is hard to imagine that the most important exchange venue in the eurozone would be steered from a headquarters outside the EU," said Felix Hufeld, Bafin's president.
"There certainly has to be an adjustment here."

BaFin is the independent financial regulatory for Germany.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 2:45 pm

Anyone surprised, go the back of the class and stand with Dreda Say Mitchell:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... back-state" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 2:51 pm

Indeed, I see that "Lexit" is going as swimmingly as many of us predicted it would

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 3:32 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Anyone surprised, go the back of the class and stand with Dreda Say Mitchell:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... back-state" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A week later, and this possibility is no longer merely theoretical: George Osborne has now proposed to cut corporation tax from 20% to below 15%, to staunch the haemorrhage of investment. During coming months and years, the unfolding crisis will provide countless pretexts for similar emergency measure that benefit business and roll back the state. So there will be no vote in parliament, no second referendum, no fresh elections: just the most massive legislative programme in history within the current parliament, in which the Tories command an absolute majority based on 37% of the votes cast in the last general election. So much for taking back democratic control.

And 37% of a 66% turnout is even more shocking .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ki ... tion,_2015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder where the 8% LD vote would have gone , as second choice ?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 3:44 pm

John Prescott would be great as replacement for Chris Evans on Top Gear. At least he knows how to throw a left hook.

: ScreenShot01462.jpg (63.13 KiB) Viewed 11309 times

: ScreenShot01463.jpg (46.91 KiB) Viewed 11309 times

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 3:57 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Angela Eagle saying she *will* challenge Corbyn for the leadership if he doesn't step down, and yes she really means it this time. Yes she does!

I actually don't mind her, but this past week has done her few favours.

Yawn.

He has said, repeatedly, that he will not step down. He has said, repeatedly, that he respects the democratic decision of the members.

So unless he performs a reverse ferret of gargantuan proportions, he will not step down. As he said. A lot.

Maybe she's hoping he'll change his mind. Even though he said, a lot, repeatedly, that he won't.

Note to Angela - HE WON'T.

Now stand. Or something. Whatever.
If this is what we can expect in terms of decisiveness from her, how can she lead a party?
Just get on with it. Or not. Please.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 4:22 pm

Future of EU nationals in UK more uncertain after May comments

Serious concerns over the legal status of the 3 million EU citizens living in Britain have been fuelled
by Theresa May’s confirmation on Sunday that she regards their future as part of Brexit negotiations.

“We are still a member of the EU – there is no change in their position currently.
But of course as part of the negotiation we will need to look at this question of
people who are here in the UK from the EU,” she told...Peston on Sunday show.

“I want to ensure that we are able to not just guarantee the positions of those
people but guarantee the positions of British citizens in other member states.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... hip-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my bold)

May's quote in bold is sort of reasonable, maybe. I like she's said the UK is still a member of the EU,
no changes of positions are imminent. Protecting British citizens residing in the EU is good.

But Ed Miliband is right, she's talking about people as political negotiation units. It's not reassuring, it's
anxiety-producing. May and Tory government are tragic. Anyone seen Dave Cameron? Is he still 'acting PM'?
He really ought to officially go now because his absence, his government's lack of leadership causes feelings
of nausea inside me personally. I'm frightened by these people.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 4:36 pm

Hello again. Been fine but felt I'd be out if sympathy re Corbyn so not been about.

Want him gone as far away as possible. Result barely in and he and McDonnell were calling for Article 50. I'd given the sceptical Remain stuff the benefit of the doubt but this confirmed to me they didn't care and don't understand the problem. I can't believe this wasvan agreed position among the Shadow Cabinet. It's off to "Progrexit" where they can play out their planned economy fantasy.

When Anna Soubry and Jeremy Hunt are more in tune with you on the most important issue, it's time for Corbyn to go. I really don't want Labour attacking the new PM on "getting on with it" and stupid "respect the will of the people" stuff.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 4:44 pm

https://carers.org/press-release/care-act-one-year" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Care Act - one year on

Review shows new law has made little difference to England's unpaid carers

https://carers.org/care-act-carers-one-year-commission" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jul, 2016 4:46 pm

I'm no longer anxious about Labour leadership. Where is current government right now and why are they remaining there? They've done nothing but cause havoc. I'm frightened by what's happening in the UK. No plans. Nothing. Worse than bad leadership - we've got bad leadership abandoning the field. Letting people remain fearful. I see and feel the anxiety in people when I go outside.