Wednesday 6th July 2016
Posted: Wed 06 Jul, 2016 7:11 am
Morning all.
Then it'll all be Corbyn's faultRobertSnozers wrote: So do I, but you just know the rebels will only be putting their heads down and waiting for the next perceived opportunity, and this ludicrous charade will continue until Labour loses the next GE
How do you see this proceeding?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.
Well it's all gone quiet on the #ChickenCoup front. And about time. The only mention of Corbyn this morning seems to be that he was right about Iraq.
I really do hope the hints of accommodation and calming down we hear are true.
A day for remembering who voted for the Invasion and against holding this Inquirydanesclose wrote:Then it'll all be Corbyn's faultRobertSnozers wrote: So do I, but you just know the rebels will only be putting their heads down and waiting for the next perceived opportunity, and this ludicrous charade will continue until Labour loses the next GE
I would like to respond to comments today but I fear I'm going to be blinded by all the whitewash...RobertSnozers wrote:Morning.
Chilcot Day...
Now she wonders at it all,
Just in whose name do these brave young heroes fall?
And how many more are gonna answer that call?
They're gonna fight and die in another country's war,
They're gonna die for religion they don't believe in at all,
They're gonna die in a place they should never been at all,
Oh, never been at all.
wo sind die gelben Pudeln?yahyah wrote: #http://lbc.co.uk/mm/image/40055.jpg
A truck has been driving round London inviting tech businesses to move to Germany.
The ad is from a German liberal political party.
I don't have a scenario, as such. BUT I am intrigued by the continued presence of Burnham as Shadow Home Sec and the addition of two interesting newcomers who are definitely close to him, Debbie Abrahams at Work & Pensions and Angela Rayner at Education.SpinningHugo wrote:How do you see this proceeding?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.
Well it's all gone quiet on the #ChickenCoup front. And about time. The only mention of Corbyn this morning seems to be that he was right about Iraq.
I really do hope the hints of accommodation and calming down we hear are true.
My guess, and it is just that, is that Eagle will stand and lose. Corbyn will win again.
But the 80% of the PLP who gave him a vote of no confidence will continue to refuse to serve in the shadow cabinet and so we won't be able to return to the state of having a fully functioning opposition frontbench. We have no shadow attorney general for example, which at the moment one might have thought was a bit of an issue. The shadow cabinet now has 25 members (from 31) with four doing two jobs. Some of those (Winterton don't support him) Some may consider it a high caliber team, but for me if you have to have Richard Burgon as shadow Lord Chancellor that is very doubtful.
So what happens? I can't see a split, despite some calls in the press. So we limp on until next year, when Corbyn is challenged again.
Someone tell me an optimistic tale where this all turns out well for Labour? How could Corbyn ever lead Labour in an election now? How could a Labour MP go on TV and argue for a Labour government when they have voted that they have no confidence in the leader? Are they to be deselected?
And, for the avoidance of doubt, I am not asking about blame. I don't want to know that this is all A. B or C's fault. I want to know plausibly how this now goes well (the PLP all just collectively changing their minds and deciding to work with JC again not being remotely plausible). How is the talk of reconciliation going to play out well?
Plenty of people far more optimistic than me here (AK?). Tell me a happy story. This scenario can involve JC either staying or going.
In the real world of the Black Arts he might just have sent it to himself ...yahyah wrote:xxxx.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pr-firm-director-death-threat-portland-jeremy-corbyn-jo-cox-a7122101.html
Up to you entirely what you write, but again what I asked wasRobertSnozers wrote:Of course you aren't interested in blame, because it's the PLP's fault, and before that, it's New Labour's fault for shaping the current PLP.SpinningHugo wrote:How do you see this proceeding?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.
Well it's all gone quiet on the #ChickenCoup front. And about time. The only mention of Corbyn this morning seems to be that he was right about Iraq.
I really do hope the hints of accommodation and calming down we hear are true.
My guess, and it is just that, is that Eagle will stand and lose. Corbyn will win again.
But the 80% of the PLP who gave him a vote of no confidence will continue to refuse to serve in the shadow cabinet and so we won't be able to return to the state of having a fully functioning opposition frontbench. We have no shadow attorney general for example, which at the moment one might have thought was a bit of an issue. The shadow cabinet now has 25 members (from 31) with four doing two jobs. Some of those (Winterton don't support him) Some may consider it a high caliber team, but for me if you have to have Richard Burgon as shadow Lord Chancellor that is very doubtful.
So what happens? I can't see a split, despite some calls in the press. So we limp on until next year, when Corbyn is challenged again.
Someone tell me an optimistic tale where this all turns out well for Labour? How could Corbyn ever lead Labour in an election now? How could a Labour MP go on TV and argue for a Labour government when they have voted that they have no confidence in the leader? Are they to be deselected?
And, for the avoidance of doubt, I am not asking about blame. I don't want to know that this is all A. B or C's fault. I want to know plausibly how this now goes well (the PLP all just collectively changing their minds and deciding to work with JC again not being remotely plausible). How is the talk of reconciliation going to play out well?
Plenty of people far more optimistic than me here (AK?). Tell me a happy story. This scenario can involve JC either staying or going.
As to how it could end well: The PLP could respect the mandate the leader has been given. They could demonstrate some respect for the party they profess to belong to. They could stop briefing and plotting. They could 'roll their sleeves up', help Corbyn, actually put their backs into providing an opposition as the people who sent them to Westminster charged them with doing. They could express ideas, develop policies, articulate a vision for Britain which inspires the electorate. They could be Labour.
But they won't, will they?
I did wonder about how the head of a PR company might act !frog222 wrote:In the real world of the Black Arts he might just have sent it to himself ...yahyah wrote:xxxx.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pr-firm-director-death-threat-portland-jeremy-corbyn-jo-cox-a7122101.html
Rain forecast in Normandy .
For Saturday night, so I'm resisting other temptations and going gardening too .
Burnham is trying to leave Parliament and become mayor of Manchester.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I don't have a scenario, as such. BUT I am intrigued by the continued presence of Burnham as Shadow Home Sec and the addition of two interesting newcomers who are definitely close to him, Debbie Abrahams at Work & Pensions and Angela Rayner at Education.SpinningHugo wrote:How do you see this proceeding?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.
Well it's all gone quiet on the #ChickenCoup front. And about time. The only mention of Corbyn this morning seems to be that he was right about Iraq.
I really do hope the hints of accommodation and calming down we hear are true.
My guess, and it is just that, is that Eagle will stand and lose. Corbyn will win again.
But the 80% of the PLP who gave him a vote of no confidence will continue to refuse to serve in the shadow cabinet and so we won't be able to return to the state of having a fully functioning opposition frontbench. We have no shadow attorney general for example, which at the moment one might have thought was a bit of an issue. The shadow cabinet now has 25 members (from 31) with four doing two jobs. Some of those (Winterton don't support him) Some may consider it a high caliber team, but for me if you have to have Richard Burgon as shadow Lord Chancellor that is very doubtful.
So what happens? I can't see a split, despite some calls in the press. So we limp on until next year, when Corbyn is challenged again.
Someone tell me an optimistic tale where this all turns out well for Labour? How could Corbyn ever lead Labour in an election now? How could a Labour MP go on TV and argue for a Labour government when they have voted that they have no confidence in the leader? Are they to be deselected?
And, for the avoidance of doubt, I am not asking about blame. I don't want to know that this is all A. B or C's fault. I want to know plausibly how this now goes well (the PLP all just collectively changing their minds and deciding to work with JC again not being remotely plausible). How is the talk of reconciliation going to play out well?
Plenty of people far more optimistic than me here (AK?). Tell me a happy story. This scenario can involve JC either staying or going.
So, three of the important posts are occupied by a North Western Burnham-ite grouping. This doesn't feel like a coincidence to me. What it means for the future I don't know.
I don't think Burnham's in any way a shoe-in in Manchester though is he?SpinningHugo wrote:Burnham is trying to leave Parliament and become mayor of Manchester.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I don't have a scenario, as such. BUT I am intrigued by the continued presence of Burnham as Shadow Home Sec and the addition of two interesting newcomers who are definitely close to him, Debbie Abrahams at Work & Pensions and Angela Rayner at Education.SpinningHugo wrote: How do you see this proceeding?
My guess, and it is just that, is that Eagle will stand and lose. Corbyn will win again.
But the 80% of the PLP who gave him a vote of no confidence will continue to refuse to serve in the shadow cabinet and so we won't be able to return to the state of having a fully functioning opposition frontbench. We have no shadow attorney general for example, which at the moment one might have thought was a bit of an issue. The shadow cabinet now has 25 members (from 31) with four doing two jobs. Some of those (Winterton don't support him) Some may consider it a high caliber team, but for me if you have to have Richard Burgon as shadow Lord Chancellor that is very doubtful.
So what happens? I can't see a split, despite some calls in the press. So we limp on until next year, when Corbyn is challenged again.
Someone tell me an optimistic tale where this all turns out well for Labour? How could Corbyn ever lead Labour in an election now? How could a Labour MP go on TV and argue for a Labour government when they have voted that they have no confidence in the leader? Are they to be deselected?
And, for the avoidance of doubt, I am not asking about blame. I don't want to know that this is all A. B or C's fault. I want to know plausibly how this now goes well (the PLP all just collectively changing their minds and deciding to work with JC again not being remotely plausible). How is the talk of reconciliation going to play out well?
Plenty of people far more optimistic than me here (AK?). Tell me a happy story. This scenario can involve JC either staying or going.
So, three of the important posts are occupied by a North Western Burnham-ite grouping. This doesn't feel like a coincidence to me. What it means for the future I don't know.
But thanks for your thoughts. I too have no plausible story where this goes well.
Well, I don't think trying to attribute blame like this is productive, as you and I know each other's positions and won't agree.RobertSnozers wrote:
Or turn it around. Say it isn't plausible, because the PLP will not accept Corbyn as leader. What do you think gives them the right?
No, I wouldn't vote for him to lead anything, but I think it explains why he remained in the shadow cabinet.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I don't think Burnham's in any way a shoe-in in Manchester though is he?SpinningHugo wrote:Burnham is trying to leave Parliament and become mayor of Manchester.PaulfromYorkshire wrote: I don't have a scenario, as such. BUT I am intrigued by the continued presence of Burnham as Shadow Home Sec and the addition of two interesting newcomers who are definitely close to him, Debbie Abrahams at Work & Pensions and Angela Rayner at Education.
So, three of the important posts are occupied by a North Western Burnham-ite grouping. This doesn't feel like a coincidence to me. What it means for the future I don't know.
But thanks for your thoughts. I too have no plausible story where this goes well.
Ok Chilcot.RobertSnozers wrote:I can't believe it isn't yet 9 o'clock and we're talking about Corbyn's leadership again.
Well played Hugo - Chilcot day and you're getting your distraction in early.
I used to like him. But his leadership campaign was simply awful. I feel he remains an interesting and influential figure though.SpinningHugo wrote:No, I wouldn't vote for him to lead anything, but I think it explains why he remained in the shadow cabinet.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I don't think Burnham's in any way a shoe-in in Manchester though is he?SpinningHugo wrote: Burnham is trying to leave Parliament and become mayor of Manchester.
But thanks for your thoughts. I too have no plausible story where this goes well.
Hmm, a story for Hugo:While Corbyn’s own colleagues plot against him, they might reflect on the alternative: empower thyself – not to have control over Corbyn, but rather to direct oneself to post-Brexit emergency planning.
This might require rather more leadership than they are used to showing, and it sounds to me, for all their protest, that they would not make for good leaders.
I don't believe that there is anyone here who doesn't already know my view on Corbyn, but if you found it useful to get me to re-state it fine. I agree with the 81% of the PLP. ('Bennite' is the politest and most neutral label I could think of as all do self-describe as fans of the late man. Perhaps "Supporters of Momentum" would be better?)RobertSnozers wrote: it helps for people to state their positions so others can see how ridiculous or otherwise they look.
I generally use Kubuntu linux, so may affect my preferences,:RogerOThornhill wrote:OK people, web browsers.
I've been using Google Chrome for ages but it seems to now be utter rubbish (slow loading, doesn't auto log on any longer) and message is that they're not now supporting it for XP and Vista.
So what do others use?
Being predominantly mobile based I'm Chrome, Firefox and Puffin. Not sure that helps.RogerOThornhill wrote:OK people, web browsers.
I've been using Google Chrome for ages but it seems to now be utter rubbish (slow loading, doesn't auto log on any longer) and message is that they're not now supporting it for XP and Vista.
So what do others use?
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Well as least we've got Pistorius to talk about on this slow news day.
Mozilla FirefoxRogerOThornhill wrote:OK people, web browsers.
I've been using Google Chrome for ages but it seems to now be utter rubbish (slow loading, doesn't auto log on any longer) and message is that they're not now supporting it for XP and Vista.
So what do others use?
andA DEPARTMENT for Education adviser told a jury she repeatedly expressed concerns about Sajid Hussain Raza’s abilities both in setting up a flagship Bradford free school and as head teacher after its opening .
Ann Connor said Raza was bright, ambitious, determined and articulate, but in the months before the opening she found he was not putting in place the structures needed for the new Kings Science Academy, of which he was the founder.
Yesterday, Miss Connor told Leeds Crown Court, where Raza and two others deny fraud, that on occasions he did not listen to her advice and on others was rude and dismissive.
Any minister likely to come out and say "Yeah, we got it wrong"?Miss Connor said the job of principal was one of the things discussed and because she was aware he was being put forward to that position, she felt she should talk about it to the trustee without Raza being there.
He was asked to leave the room and, when he returned, she indicated that the post would be advertised in the appropriate educational press and told him he would be able to apply.
“His response was to pick up his mobile phone and to say words to the effect ‘We’ll see what Michael has to say about this shall we.’ “ Asked what she thought he meant, Miss Connor said: “I assumed it was Mr Michael Gove, the then secretary of state for Education and I assumed Sajid had his phone number I suppose.”
She said in fact he made no call in her presence, but subsequently she was told there would be no advert placed. “I was told to back off.”
He died in February and the inquest has just been held. It's very sad that a young man has thrown his life away. It does also raise the question of how someone with serious issues like his could be entrusted by senior Tories and other Brexit types with a job that has ultimately had disastrous ramifications for every citizen of the UK. He was also an election agent for Tory MP Andrew Stephenson.Tory Brexit director found dead in bed by fiancee after drink and drugs binge
George Askew, 32, who had campaigned with Boris Johnson, drank heavily and would smoke heroin, snort cocaine and take Ketamine for "recreational" purposes
'Everyone' didn't include me. At the time I couldn't understand why people found it so plausible.SpinningHugo wrote:I did so even believing in WMDs (which everyone did, up to and including Blair).
Do you know what a rhetorical question is? (Clue: that isn't one either).ephemerid wrote:Another day, another set of rhetorical questions,
Me neither.gilsey wrote:'Everyone' didn't include me. At the time I couldn't understand why people found it so plausible.SpinningHugo wrote:I did so even believing in WMDs (which everyone did, up to and including Blair).
I don't believe I'm alone in that.
What was your evidence to the contrary (at the time)? Why wasn't the view of the UK/US intelligence service the best available, couple with the Saddam Hussein regime's avoidance of inspections? What other evidence was there?gilsey wrote:'Everyone' didn't include me. At the time I couldn't understand why people found it so plausible.SpinningHugo wrote:I did so even believing in WMDs (which everyone did, up to and including Blair).
I don't believe I'm alone in that.
I'll nibble. I am a Labour Party member. I am not a momentum member.SpinningHugo wrote:Do you know what a rhetorical question is? (Clue: that isn't one either).ephemerid wrote:Another day, another set of rhetorical questions,
Trying to be serious, what do you expect to happen? Is there a plausible story that goes well for Labour from here?
These are actual questions. You are exactly the kind of person I want to answer them. I am trying to understand the mindset of the Corbyn supporter.
I think your answer (and RS's) is that you don't care, what matters are other things.
To others: sorry for biting.