Thursday, 7th July 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 6:19 am

Good morfternoon.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 6:44 am

Morning Ms Favor

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 6:46 am

Publication of Andrea Leadsom's CV prompts new questions about her career

Fresh queries arise over Tory leadership candidate’s seniority and responsibilities in several roles
(Guardian)

No wonder she's such a hit with Iain Smith.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... out-career

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 6:47 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Morning Ms Favor

Thank goodness someone's turned up!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 6:49 am

From the Spectator

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/for- ... e-british/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Anti-immigrant feeling won it for Leave, and they know it. They used it, rode it and are complicit in it. I’ve been dismayed to see people I’ve respected descend to this. I never thought either that the reserves of xenophobia in England were so strong, nor that people who should know better would play upon them with such careless cynicism. I was doubly naive.

From the Labour party (Birmingham)

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/mi ... s-11571861" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gisela Stuart (Lab Birmingham Edgbaston) warned that politicians and the pro-EU media must accept that the public chose to leave - and stop imagining voters were either tricked into it or were motivated by racism.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 7:02 am

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... ried-about" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If Leave campaigners are worried about immigrants' rights, they should look at themselves
It wasn't Theresa May who put the rights of EU citizens at risk: it was the people campaigning to pull Britain out of Europe.

Quite (Boris)

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 7:06 am

Morning all.

Ouch. Some pretty scathing criticism in there.

MPs reject new head of Ofsted - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36723828" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 7:24 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... dum-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
4 ways the anti-immigration vote won the referendum for Brexit
Total control on immigration mattered more to voters than the single market.

As I say (record-like), a Labour party with a) Gisela Stuart and b) a Labour MP being permitted to co-chair Leave is a party I find hard to support.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 7:33 am

https://www.theguardian.com/media/green ... main#img-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dont forget this! am v curious

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 7:49 am

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/we-asked ... ationships" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- My grandmum's Jamaican and she thought voting leave would stop the migrants coming and magically fix my granddad's visa issues so he could come home.
- My mum's always voted Conservative, but the fact that she's an immigrant from Pakistan and wanted to vote leave really surprised me, because – without making my mum sound like a horrible person – how can you deny people the rights you were given 20, 30-odd years ago?
- The UK always felt more adventurous and outward looking than central Europe. Now it just seems lame and parochial. I can't even play the, "yeah, but London is the coolest city ever" card anymore. Thanks Nigel and Boris, you dicks.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 7:51 am

I overslept PF. Had a sociable couple of glasses of wine last night. Disappointing that Wales lost.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 7:59 am

Michael Howard is on Radio 4 saying there can't be an early general election because of the fixed term Parliament legislation.

Not sure why MPs can't be given a chance to vote to reverse the legislation ?
That would be a more sensible and planned way forward than all the vote of no confidence drama necessary to trigger an early election now. But I suppose planned and calm actions aren't what we do now. Wait until there's a crisis and then try and muddle through it seems to be the way.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:15 am

Day 2 of Blair floundering...

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:15 am

Iain Duncan Smith, as Tory leader 2003 supporting the decision to go into Iraq

The idea that this action would become a recruiting sergeant for others to come to the colours of those who are “anti” any nation in the west is, I am afraid, nonsense. The biggest recruiting sergeant of all has been indecision, and the failure to take action to show that such resolve matters.

http://www.ukpol.co.uk/2016/01/18/iain- ... t-on-iraq/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:23 am

Just to say. Wales... All Jeremy Corbyn's fault. Can't cross a ball into the box for toffee (I blame the sandals. Red socks A-OK in this context though).

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:26 am

TobyLatimer wrote:Iain Duncan Smith, as Tory leader 2003 supporting the decision to go into Iraq

The idea that this action would become a recruiting sergeant for others to come to the colours of those who are “anti” any nation in the west is, I am afraid, nonsense. The biggest recruiting sergeant of all has been indecision, and the failure to take action to show that such resolve matters.

http://www.ukpol.co.uk/2016/01/18/iain- ... t-on-iraq/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Needless to say, once an idiot, always a Tory.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:27 am

https://waitingfortax.com/2016/07/07/re ... rspending/

Uncovering the smoking cannon: can anyone be held accountable for untruths told and overspending during the EU Referendum campaign?

(Personal Admission of shallowness: Not as bad as 'buying the ft because it matches the bathroom decor', I read Jolyon Maughums twitter because its the second thing to come up when googling 'QC'.
First is an online comic strip 'questionable content'.)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:37 am

"tinybgoat" https://waitingfortax.com/2016/07/07/re ... rspending/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for that link tinyb.

Checking QC Maugham's tweets he says
''We would like to see a *detailed* analysis of links between various ''Leave'' groups.
Has anyone done one. Can anyone do one for us ?''

''If there's an experienced investigator out there wants to look into this please write to me at Deveraux Chambers''

Would be happy to help crowd source funds for that.

Chin up TinyClanger, there's some clever folk on our side.

edited to add...not meaning to imply we are thick

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:40 am

Humphrys v Blair on Toady .

0840 he seems to be saying the ME is overall a better place now ...

WTF ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:40 am

Humphreys is hitting below the belt asking Blair about his relationship with his god.
All for a cheap headline.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:48 am

tinyclanger's scratched record productions wrote: http://theconversation.com/what-brexit- ... alth-61941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Before the poll, the uniform message from the other leaders of the 53-member association had been a desire for Britain to remain a member of the EU. To the Commonwealth, Britain was a powerful and privileged member within the EU trading bloc, with considerable opportunities for diplomatic leverage in broader Commonwealth interests.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:50 am

Diane Abbott, on Today, could have phrased this better ''Jeremy doesn't believe in the politics of personal destruction, he leaves that to other people.''

Will await PorFavor's opinion. To me it is ambiguous.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 8:51 am

PorFavor wrote:
Publication of Andrea Leadsom's CV prompts new questions about her career

Fresh queries arise over Tory leadership candidate’s seniority and responsibilities in several roles
(Guardian)
No wonder she's such a hit with Iain Smith.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... out-career

And Michael Howard.

I did enjoy the Today news following Leadsom's embellishment of her CV with news that Howard was supporting her. Marvellous.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:06 am

Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:10 am

Jaw go straight through floor and meet Earth's crust:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rty-bubble" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:13 am

yahyah wrote:Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.

Tbf there was a lot of peace keeping missions in the horn of Africa not so long ago.
I've noticed that places like Birkenhead have a semi permanent army recruitment post whereas the more wealthier parts of the country, not so much. Macho, an economic way out? I think it's a complex situation regarding signing up.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:25 am

yahyah wrote:Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.

Although I broadly agree, I also believe that the Armed Forces, Ministry of Defence, whatever, have, as employers, a duty of care (equipment, planning etc) to their employees.

To join the Armed Forces and then complain when people shoot at you does seem unreasonable, however.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:30 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Ouch. Some pretty scathing criticism in there.

MPs reject new head of Ofsted - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36723828" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I missed the session so can't comment on how she came across but tweets I've seen from edu people are pretty disappointed with the decision as she seemed to be universally thought of as the right candidate.

I'm not as impressed with Carmichael as a chair as I was of Graham Stuart - thought his questioning of David Carter was a bit weak - didn't for example query how the DfE thought they were going to be able to cope with the race for full academisation which he supports.

Also worth noting that Suella Fernandes on that committee follows the Michaela line in not thinking that there is a need for Ofsted at all.

Birbalsingh has organised another seminar discussion entitled "Should Ofsted be abolished?" and her position...

KatharineBirbalsingh ‏@Miss_Snuffy 14h14 hours ago
Well of course it should be...

Good to see it will be balanced and fair minded...

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:31 am

yahyah wrote:Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.

I know a lot of kids who have gone into the army & navy, including a lot of relations (my nephew was killed in Iraq). They join up because it's seen as a secure job & a way of getting a training, when nothing else is on offer for them. I think you're being a bit simplistic here.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:57 am

Andrea Leadsom thinks we can be the "greatest nation on earth".
What the hell does that even mean?
Ludicrous and deranged. The lot of them.

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 9:58 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... a-unveiled" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's an Ark... Noah's Ark ( repro )

The Ark Encounter, based on proportions laid out in the Bible, is 510ft long, seven stories tall, and features model animals – including dinosaurs...

wait, what... dinosaurs ?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:01 am

yahyah wrote:Diane Abbott, on Today, could have phrased this better ''Jeremy doesn't believe in the politics of personal destruction, he leaves that to other people.''

Will await PorFavor's opinion. To me it is ambiguous.

Yeah, the obvious answer to that is "Seumas Milne"?

Now, there's a thought on something Corbyn could do if he wants to win at least part of the PLP back......

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:05 am

yahyah wrote:Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.

Morfters all....

In my experience people sign on the dotted line for many reasons - family tradition, the camaraderie, escape from drudgery and an expectation of excitement among them.

Speaking for myself personally now, an escape from a bizzare and opressive home life combined with a want to 'do something useful' at a young age led me to the Recruitment Office. (...and having failed dismally at school, the (unfulfilled) promise of a trade on exit)

Once 'in', you are completely at the mercy of the whims of politicians - but you are aware that 1) you could be shot at (and, in that scenario would shoot back), and 2) that ticking (Army lingo for moaning and griping in my day) was fine, but you do as you're told....full stop...end of the line...no questions.

In a perfect world, the military doesn't exist - but the world isn't perfect and some roles performed by the military (peacekeeping/Bosnia/Cyprus/Green Godesses/clearing roads of snow in really bad weather/filling sandbags for flood protection) are useful and necessary.

It has to be said that were I a young man now, I think my decision would be different given the conflicts we (as a nation) are involved in - in my time The Troubles and the USSR/nuclear winter were the threats. Also, we were most definitely not seen as (and did not think of ourselves as) 'heroes'.

Waves to 'extankie' as the username suggests a similar history to mine - and I hope you've sorted the issues you were experiencing.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:12 am

Leadsom as leader could make things interesting. So long all the talk of occupying the middle ground is the only way.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:14 am

@ yahyah

The "politics of self-destruction" thing -

Sorry, I've only just seen this. Yes - it is ambiguous. The believing or the doing?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:15 am

55DegreesNorth wrote:
yahyah wrote:Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.
I know a lot of kids who have gone into the army & navy, including a lot of relations (my nephew was killed in Iraq). They join up because it's seen as a secure job & a way of getting a training, when nothing else is on offer for them. I think you're being a bit simplistic here.

I'm sorry to hear your nephew was one of the soldiers who died. That loved ones die in wars is why we wish no one would sign up to fight in the first place, but life is more complicated than that, isn't it? History is full of wars, even the most simplistic of hunter gather societies will clash from time to time over scarce resources. I'm not particularly inclined to let Tony Blair off the hook, but I would like to see a few more of the protagonists upon that hook with him, to be honest. The whole sorry saga of Saddam Hussein goes back to Thatcher and Reagan, the Iran-Iraq war, arms-to-Iraq, then Bush Sr and Major and the first gulf war, promises to Shia and Kurds to finish Hussein backtracked on by a President's desire for a clinical war - all this tragedy happened long before Blair was even elected but all contributed to the current state of affairs. Not to mention Bush Jr and Rumsfeld, who surely should take a large share of the blame. The obsession with Blair seems out of proportion in the context of decades of disastrous meddling in the Middle East by a succession of US and UK premiers.

It seems to me tge focus on Blair is convenient, politically, to those who seek to keep Labour out of power and sometimes I feel his role has been over-emphasised by some for cynical rather than genuine reasons. So the suffering of bereaved families is revisited over and over as the anger is kept alive. Personally I feel the least we can do for our armed services is to honour what they do by holding on to a sense that it was worth it, that they did a good thing, that Hussein was a monster who murdered many of his own people and deserved to be deposed. It's a type of truth, after all, and the one I prefer. I don't really know what good it does to persist in finding a "truth" in which it was all a complete mistake and nothing good came of it at all.

A little more focus on the lack of the right equipment and other mistakes made militarily and how to avoid these errors in future would serve a better purpose to help protect soldiers in future, I think, than trying to prove Blair is some kind of criminal.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:17 am

Brexit: The decision of a divided country
http://www.dannydorling.org/?p=5568" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Contrary to popular belief, 52% of people who voted Leave in the EU referendum lived in the southern half of England, and 59% were in the middle classes, while the proportion of Leave voters in the lowest two social classes was just 24%. Almost all other European countries tax more effectively, spend more on health, and do not tolerate our degree of economic inequality. To distract us from these national failings, we have been encouraged to blame immigration and the EU. That lie will now be exposed.

Most people younger than 50 who voted, voted to remain. But rather than blame the older generation, their ire should instead be directed squarely at all the post 1979 UK governments that have allowed economic inequalities to rise so high; that prevented a fair proportional voting system being introduced; that have harmed people of all ages; and that have placed future generations in peril.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:17 am

The most revealing remark from that anonymous Labour MP quoted in this morning's Telegraph is "they keep signing up members"......

Who, exactly, is "they"?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:24 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The most revealing remark from that anonymous Labour MP quoted in this morning's Telegraph is "they keep signing up members"......

Who, exactly, is "they"?

Not us silly.

A bigger membership is good. Ditto a broader church, bigger tent. So long as they're pre-approved by the appropriate Grown-up Serious People.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:26 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
tinyclanger's scratched record productions wrote: http://theconversation.com/what-brexit- ... alth-61941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Before the poll, the uniform message from the other leaders of the 53-member association had been a desire for Britain to remain a member of the EU. To the Commonwealth, Britain was a powerful and privileged member within the EU trading bloc, with considerable opportunities for diplomatic leverage in broader Commonwealth interests.

This was something that always troubled me in the run-up to the EURef....surely increased trading with the Commonwealth wasn't 'banned' because of our membership of the EU?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:32 am

My dad the bloodthirsty killing machine spent most of his early time battling with authority and in the clink he was a very naughty boy,he didn't like officers much so much so he refused to be one,rather be the top of the shits rather than the shit at the top.He wears the battle scars of a self inflicted bayonet wound the result of having to sleep with rifle lest being attacked during the night.He assumed the identity of a South African boxer for a time,albeit 40 with a Scottish accent,none of which officially happened.He developed a rota system that became universally applied,was asked to be on the Generation Game,for his skill in writing backwards,but declined.Annoyed the female killing machines for putting them on guard duty,still mentions the annual income reduction for poppy purposes.
"Just a bloke doing a job"

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:34 am

55DegreesNorth wrote:
yahyah wrote:Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.
I know a lot of kids who have gone into the army & navy, including a lot of relations (my nephew was killed in Iraq). They join up because it's seen as a secure job & a way of getting a training, when nothing else is on offer for them. I think you're being a bit simplistic here.

Yes.

Some people simply want to serve.

My daughter had already had a university education and worked for 3 years in the film/TV industry - but she also wanted to, as she put it, "give something back". So she followed her grandad's example and joined the RAF.

People who sign up for the Armed Forces know that they may be asked to go to a theatre of war; they know that they may be killed or injured if they do - and they know that they may have to kill or injure others.

In the case of Iraq, they followed the orders they were given, as all military personnel are required to do. I happen to know quite a few military and ex-military who did not think that this war was the right thing to do.

The issue is not the serving personnel who followed orders - the issue is that the orders should never have been issued.

We are commemorating the Somme and all those who fell. Another instance of an unnecessary war, political arrogance, and a badly managed campaign with no exit plan and a senseless loss of life.

We have learned nothing.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:35 am

Btw - Andrea Leadsom - I know personal insults are childish and generally unacceptable but, bloody hell, she sounds thick. I mean, seriously?!

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:36 am

Lost Soul wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... a-unveiled

It's an Ark... Noah's Ark ( repro )

The Ark Encounter, based on proportions laid out in the Bible, is 510ft long, seven stories tall, and features model animals – including dinosaurs...

wait, what... dinosaurs ?

It's to fit in with the myth that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, due to the literal truth of the bible. To fit in with the narrative, dinosaurs & man must have co-existed (its easier to imagine if you consider The Flintstones to be a documentary), hence the dinosaurs on board. Likewise all known physical constants & scientific methods (e.g. speed of light, Carbon 14 dating etc.) must have changed over this 10,000 years (I was going to say evolved......)

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:39 am

Willow904 wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:
yahyah wrote:Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.
I know a lot of kids who have gone into the army & navy, including a lot of relations (my nephew was killed in Iraq). They join up because it's seen as a secure job & a way of getting a training, when nothing else is on offer for them. I think you're being a bit simplistic here.
I'm sorry to hear your nephew was one of the soldiers who died. That loved ones die in wars is why we wish no one would sign up to fight in the first place, but life is more complicated than that, isn't it? History is full of wars, even the most simplistic of hunter gather societies will clash from time to time over scarce resources. I'm not particularly inclined to let Tony Blair off the hook, but I would like to see a few more of the protagonists upon that hook with him, to be honest. The whole sorry saga of Saddam Hussein goes back to Thatcher and Reagan, the Iran-Iraq war, arms-to-Iraq, then Bush Sr and Major and the first gulf war, promises to Shia and Kurds to finish Hussein backtracked on by a President's desire for a clinical war - all this tragedy happened long before Blair was even elected but all contributed to the current state of affairs. Not to mention Bush Jr and Rumsfeld, who surely should take a large share of the blame. The obsession with Blair seems out of proportion in the context of decades of disastrous meddling in the Middle East by a succession of US and UK premiers.

It seems to me tge focus on Blair is convenient, politically, to those who seek to keep Labour out of power and sometimes I feel his role has been over-emphasised by some for cynical rather than genuine reasons. So the suffering of bereaved families is revisited over and over as the anger is kept alive. Personally I feel the least we can do for our armed services is to honour what they do by holding on to a sense that it was worth it, that they did a good thing, that Hussein was a monster who murdered many of his own people and deserved to be deposed. It's a type of truth, after all, and the one I prefer. I don't really know what good it does to persist in finding a "truth" in which it was all a complete mistake and nothing good came of it at all.

A little more focus on the lack of the right equipment and other mistakes made militarily and how to avoid these errors in future would serve a better purpose to help protect soldiers in future, I think, than trying to prove Blair is some kind of criminal.

I'd like to see Uncle Rupert on the same hook - how many phone calls/meetings did he have with Blair/Bush et al whilst beating the drum for war...any threats involved?...any coersion/hints that it would be a 'good thing' that Murkydochia would approve of?

Absolutely categorically definitely not - Murkydochia is a benign influence on the world, its' politicians and power structures...oh....hang on a sec...

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:42 am

Willow904 wrote:Btw - Andrea Leadsom - I know personal insults are childish and generally unacceptable but, bloody hell, she sounds thick. I mean, seriously?!

Marina Hyde – Verified account ‏@MarinaHyde

“I want to speak to the markets,” says Andrea Leadsom, with the air of someone who imagines you can negotiate with gravity.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:47 am

ephemerid wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:
yahyah wrote:Blair has a lot on his conscience.
But why is their no criticism of the soldiers who sign up to kill ?
Without them there would be no war.
The willing recruits who buy the macho myth about 'our heroes', and sign up, are the ones who fire the weapons.
I know a lot of kids who have gone into the army & navy, including a lot of relations (my nephew was killed in Iraq). They join up because it's seen as a secure job & a way of getting a training, when nothing else is on offer for them. I think you're being a bit simplistic here.

Yes.

Some people simply want to serve.

My daughter had already had a university education and worked for 3 years in the film/TV industry - but she also wanted to, as she put it, "give something back". So she followed her grandad's example and joined the RAF.

People who sign up for the Armed Forces know that they may be asked to go to a theatre of war; they know that they may be killed or injured if they do - and they know that they may have to kill or injure others.

In the case of Iraq, they followed the orders they were given, as all military personnel are required to do. I happen to know quite a few military and ex-military who did not think that this war was the right thing to do.

The issue is not the serving personnel who followed orders - the issue is that the orders should never have been issued.

We are commemorating the Somme and all those who fell. Another instance of an unnecessary war, political arrogance, and a badly managed campaign with no exit plan and a senseless loss of life.

We have learned nothing.

This...over and over again, ad infinitum.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:47 am

it looked as if Andrea Leadsom was the overwhelming favourite to come second today - meaning that Gove would drop out, and Leadsom and Theresa May would be on the shortlist of two in the ballot of party members. It was very hard to see where Gove would find the votes to catch her up. But after that speech I’m not so sure - because that speech was so dire that it would be surprising if some of her MP supporters who watched it did not start having second thoughts.

from graun live

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:48 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The most revealing remark from that anonymous Labour MP quoted in this morning's Telegraph is "they keep signing up members"......

Who, exactly, is "they"?

Momentum, obviously.

Do you think Corbyn should stay or go?

You have said in the past that you expect him to quit before 2020. What he will do isn't my question.

What should he do?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 07 Jul, 2016 10:51 am

Willow904 wrote:Btw - Andrea Leadsom - I know personal insults are childish and generally unacceptable but, bloody hell, she sounds thick. I mean, seriously?!

She is the embodiment of "you get the politicians you deserve", and a salutary lesson for Lexiters everywhere.