Friday 8th.July 2016

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 6:30 am

Morning!

I want to thank HindleA for his posts over the past few days - as well as injecting some humour into proceedings, he has posted links to actual news on subjects close to my heart.

I also want to thank people who have been patient with me and my irritation with a certain person; I have resolved not to engage with the provocation any more. Waste of time.

Frances Ryan has a piece on what has been going on in the burying-of-bad-news department while the shenanigans in politics continues - she highlights 5 main issues of concern.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -austerity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of the worst items is child poverty - an additional 200,000 children have fallen into poverty (when housing costs are included) in a year. There are now 3.9 Million children living in families which are below the poverty line - and two-thirds of those families include at least one parent who works, disproving the governments' scrounger rhetoric.
Frances points out that there is no government strategy to deal with this, and thinks that the situation can only get worse unless something is done. I agree with her - what we need is more/better/cheaper housing; a reasonable level of social security income for those who need it; and an end to punitive charges, fines, taxes, and sanctions.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:06 am

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/ ... he-wombles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ray Winstone is to join the voice cast of a new computer animated series of The Wombles alongside original cast member Bernard Cribbins.
“Bernard Cribbins is doing Great Uncle Bulgaria, and Ray Winstone is doing Tobermory,” said creator Mike Batt, speaking at the Children’s Media Conference in Sheffield.

Tales of the Riverbank meets Sexy Beast.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:12 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 24551.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Creative industries’ contribution to the economy is often underestimated, the UK being home to a wealth of creative talent and leading the world in fields like VFX.

(being creative emoticon)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:17 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... eap-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We can’t leave the negotiations with Europe to the Tories
Jeremy Corbyn

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:22 am

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/poli ... er-brexit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The engineers of this disgusting nightmare should be made accountable for this and to go and sort it out. In person, on the ground.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:24 am

Morning All

I just wanted to respond to a concern from yesterday about ageism in a post or posts.

Our strapline reminds us that we are responsible for the content we post. Discriminatory language is off limits. If another member points out that you are transgressing, please don't just brush it off. Delete / apologise / correct as appropriate.

Thank you.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:36 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... eap-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
HindleA's story on corbyn above, definitely worth a read.

I might not agree with him entirely but Corbyn may be about the only personality tough enough to actually have an influence against a May/Leadsom leadership - a prospect which horrifies me if unmitigated. If the pan European social democrats can work collectively to bring about a wider change then that would be something.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:50 am

@tinyclanger2 thanks for correct link.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 7:54 am

Reflects my experience (one reason why I quit)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new inclusive bridge building politics.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:02 am

Found this retweeted by Peter Jukes. He certainly isn't a 'Corbyn cultist'.

Willow's from that neck of the woods, it'll be interesting if she, or anyone else has heard reports of, or was at, the meeting.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:08 am

Someone who obviously disagrees with the young man mentioned in the previous post.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:12 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.expressandstar.com/news/poli ... er-brexit/
The engineers of this disgusting nightmare should be made accountable for this and to go and sort it out. In person, on the ground.

27th.June - Guardian reports a 57% rise in reported incidents of racist abuse.
28th.June - CNN, AlJazeera, EuroNews, New York Post, Independent: reports of increased racist abuse.
30th.June - Guardian reports a 5-fold increase in police reports of racism.
!st. July - Telegraph reports "Steep rise in racist incidents".
4th.July - Sky News: "Hate crime in London up by 50% since Brexit vote".

These are only some of the reports I found by Googling "increase in racist attacks since Brexit".

Yesterday, Nick Cohen wrote in the Spectator - "Racism, when it goes beyond its normal limits, requires authorisation from on high. Political or religious leaders need to give the impression that feelings, which are normally sublimated, are free to flourish. I am not saying that Vote Leave wanted violent assaults. But by making the referendum a vote about immigration above all other issues, they created a climate where a victory for leave was a victory for people who wanted immigrants to go".

Quite.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:14 am

yahyah wrote:Someone who obviously disagrees with the young man mentioned in the previous post.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same link I just posted

Clearly anger on both sides. Reflects the online world.

Majority clearly pro-Corbyn, angry at dissentients. Longstanding members uncomfortable with change in the party membership.

Certain irony in those calling for unity telling dissenting voices to leave of course.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:20 am

Sorry to duplicate the link, I was following tinyclanger's advice about reading/not reading posts.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:23 am

The young man's complaint seems to be that the estimated 90% of support for Corbyn won't be passed on because of procedural protocol.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:27 am

A lot of those who are supporting Corbyn would have been longstanding members were it not for the Iraq war.
My neighbour who has just rejoined left because of Blair and Iraq.
She cannot be alone. So 'long standing members' maybe need to recognise that.

edited: to try and make sense. May not have succeeded.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:32 am

yahyah wrote:A lot of those who are supporting Corbyn would have been longstanding members were it not for the Iraq war.
My neighbour who has just rejoined left because of Blair and Iraq.
She cannot be alone. So 'long standing members' maybe need to recognise that.

edited: to try and make sense. May not have succeeded.

I am sure true.

Ironically enough, true of me as well (though I re-joined long before).

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:40 am

The Guardian live politics blog now includes, wait for it, a Beyonce song of the day reference.

What does an overpaid woman prancing in her big pants, using her walnut cracker thighs to show how 'empowered' she is, have to do with Guardian reporting on politics ?

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:44 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Reflects my experience (one reason why I quit)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new inclusive bridge building politics.

mine too...

Though I haven't left yet.

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:50 am

"Farage says after quitting as UKIP leader he can now speak freely and "The real me will now come out".

Oh....my....!

( apologies if this has already been done )

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:50 am

yahyah wrote:The Guardian live politics blog now includes, wait for it, a Beyonce song of the day reference.

What does an overpaid woman prancing in her big pants, using her walnut cracker thighs to show how 'empowered' she is, have to do with Guardian reporting on politics ?

The answer is 'Absolutely nothing', and I claim my £5.

It is yet another alienating factor about this once decent paper that it believes everybody under the sun (or the raincloud) is a worshipper of Beyonce. Personally, I prefer Pere Ubu.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:51 am

Lost Soul wrote:"Farage says after quitting as UKIP leader he can now speak freely and "The real me will now come out".

Oh....my....!

( apologies if this has already been done )

We tremble...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:52 am

The most anger I have ever witnessed is a heated discussion about whose round it was in the pub afterwards,the new versus old member thing is interesting I was a non Militant new member in a Militant MP's constituency,inconveniently for the national leadership returned with an increased majority.Incidently there is a lot of guff and mythology about that time,most infamously Kinnock's fleet of P'45 delivering taxis.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 8:59 am

In 2007, when Gordon Brown became Prime Minister after Blair's departure, Cameron said this -
"Gordon Brown doesn't have the mandate, he wasn't elected as Prime Minister, and he should go to the country".

If, as I suspect, Theresa May wins the Tory leadership, I wonder if her erstwhile boss will demand a snap election?

I expect May to rebut any calls for a GE by citing the Fixed Term Parliament Act, claiming that the mandate from the GE was for a Conservative government (never mind it was by a whisker and possibly helped along by alleged expenses fraud).

I am wondering whether she will have a place in her cabinet for any of the Brexiters, any of her challengers in this contest, and most of all the Gidiot. Somehow I think she will be ruthless and get rid of anyone she has no liking for.

Thatcher in a Roland Mouret frock? (That's for the fashionistas, that is)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:00 am

It all seems so black and white, so polarised.
There is middle ground.
There must be a lot of Labour members who are like general voters, their opinions and feelings shift with time or circumstances.

If a genuine centre ground candidate comes forward, someone who could unify the party and is a strong candidate, they would get my vote.

Edited to add...what I'd really like is someone intelligent, charismatic in a good way, capable, able to connect with voters, appears centrist but is able to shift us to the left without scaring the horses...
where is such a person ?

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:05 am

Lost Soul wrote:"Farage says after quitting as UKIP leader he can now speak freely and "The real me will now come out".

Oh....my....!

( apologies if this has already been done )

It's one life and there's no return and no deposit
One life so it's time to open up your closet
Life's not worth a damn till you can shout out
I am what I am

[youtube]uj8C43r4zm0[/youtube]

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:09 am

Racism After Brexit Is ‘Celebratory’ And ‘Englishness’ Is Becoming Exclusively White And Christian, Says Expert
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/r ... b55795302d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

English identity has always been hijacked by English nationalists on the one hand and the (Norman/German) aristocracy on the other. Born in England I have never felt myself to be "English".

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:12 am

yahyah wrote:
Edited to add...what I'd really like is someone intelligent, charismatic in a good way, capable, able to connect with voters, appears centrist but is able to shift us to the left without scaring the horses...
where is such a person ?

(looking modestly down emoticon)

[NB. = joke]

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:15 am

yahyah wrote:It all seems so black and white, so polarised.
There is middle ground.
There must be a lot of Labour members who are like general voters, their opinions and feelings shift with time or circumstances.

If a genuine centre ground candidate comes forward, someone who could unify the party and is a strong candidate, they would get my vote.

Edited to add...what I'd really like is someone intelligent, charismatic in a good way, capable, able to connect with voters, appears centrist but is able to shift us to the left without scaring the horses...
where is such a person ?

Well that's certainly how it's being presented.

BUT, as I keep pointing out, the Shadow Cabinet includes Andy Burnham, Debbie Abrahams & Angela Rayner. Also Emily Thornberry.

I don't see these politicians as far left cultists in any way at all. Abrahams, Rayner and Thornberry are not hugely experienced politicians, but all had successful real world careers. Why don't we hear more from these people?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:17 am

Morning all.

Maybe a reminder that this is "The Daily Politics" and not "The Daily Politics (Labour Leadership)"?.

Approach this place with good intentions (pretty sure there's a legal term for the opposite - mens rea?) and all will be well.

Not sure of the answers but the questions are interesting if a little obvious.

A public need for a major overhaul of British politics and political system?

https://medium.com/@mikeloveUK/a-public ... .8fcbzh3du

Is British democracy dead or just suffering from a bit of a cold?

There is a worrying disconnect between the political elites and establishment and the electorate. Political party membership is at an all time low (even after recent recruitment drives), voting turnout in younger voter cohorts is incredibly low, the understanding of and acceptance of conventions long just ‘part of British DNA’ is under threat.

Is our democracy and the political system which enables it, in the words of awful jargon-ites “fit for purpose?”

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:22 am

I apologise unreservedly for my sizest comments regarding the relative taller than me(ie.most people)and those with moustaches,regardless of sex,for any offence ~~not~~ taken.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:30 am

A function of listening to Radio 4 Extra reminded of this:

"Janet Anderson, Labour MP for Rossendale and Darwen, gave an interview to the Daily Telegraph's Petronella Wyatt. In the course of a lengthy discussion about women and Labour (Anderson is shadow Minister for Women) a stunning epigram was delivered. "Under Labour," said Anderson, "women will become more promiscuous. That's an election promise."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:44 am

The Labour party has rather treated me rather shoddily,all requests for accommodation for a wheelchair user willing to help ignored but mysteriously not for checking on vote,asking for money purposes,ceremoniously suspended subject to investigations for the pre crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and spelling my bloody name wrong,regularly despite repeated corrections,I stay so I can continue to be annoyed at them.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:48 am

Have ordered copy of the New European - has anyone seen it in the flesh yet?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:49 am

"flesh"

Pricks ears up emoticon.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:50 am

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europ ... st-century" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Europe as a republic.

Discuss.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:52 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
yahyah wrote:It all seems so black and white, so polarised.
There is middle ground.
There must be a lot of Labour members who are like general voters, their opinions and feelings shift with time or circumstances.

If a genuine centre ground candidate comes forward, someone who could unify the party and is a strong candidate, they would get my vote.

Edited to add...what I'd really like is someone intelligent, charismatic in a good way, capable, able to connect with voters, appears centrist but is able to shift us to the left without scaring the horses...
where is such a person ?
Well that's certainly how it's being presented.

BUT, as I keep pointing out, the Shadow Cabinet includes Andy Burnham, Debbie Abrahams & Angela Rayner. Also Emily Thornberry.

I don't see these politicians as far left cultists in any way at all. Abrahams, Rayner and Thornberry are not hugely experienced politicians, but all had successful real world careers. Why don't we hear more from these people?

the shadow cabinet also includes

Richard Burgon - Shadow Lord Chancellor

Paul Flynn Shadow Leader of the House, and Shadow Sec of State for Wales

Kelvin Hopkins - Shadow Culture

Diane Abbot - Shadow Sec of State for Health

Clive Lewis - Shadow Sec of State for Defence

Rebecca Long-Bailey - Shadow Sec to the Treasury

and the not very Scottish David Anderson is Sec of State for Scotland

We don't have a shadow attorney general any longer. I am sure Burgon is up to dealing with any knotty legal questions that might turn up, unlikely to be any I suppose.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 9:58 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Maybe a reminder that this is "The Daily Politics" and not "The Daily Politics (Labour Leadership)"?.

Approach this place with good intentions (pretty sure there's a legal term for the opposite - mens rea?) and all will be well.

Not sure of the answers but the questions are interesting if a little obvious.

A public need for a major overhaul of British politics and political system?

https://medium.com/@mikeloveUK/a-public ... .8fcbzh3du

Is British democracy dead or just suffering from a bit of a cold?

There is a worrying disconnect between the political elites and establishment and the electorate. Political party membership is at an all time low (even after recent recruitment drives), voting turnout in younger voter cohorts is incredibly low, the understanding of and acceptance of conventions long just ‘part of British DNA’ is under threat.

Is our democracy and the political system which enables it, in the words of awful jargon-ites “fit for purpose?”

Given that it's only within the past 10 years or so that the House of Lords has even approached being something other than a Tory establishment rubber stamping body, when in history has Parliament ever been fit for the purpose of democracy? That's irrespective of the merits or otherwise of FPTP, btw.

We've never once had democracy in the UK. We've only ever had a visage of it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:03 am

SpinningHugo wrote: the shadow cabinet also includes

Richard Burgon - Shadow Lord Chancellor

Paul Flynn Shadow Leader of the House, and Shadow Sec of State for Wales

Kelvin Hopkins - Shadow Culture

Diane Abbot - Shadow Sec of State for Health

Clive Lewis - Shadow Sec of State for Defence

Rebecca Long-Bailey - Shadow Sec to the Treasury

and the not very Scottish David Anderson is Sec of State for Scotland

We don't have a shadow attorney general any longer. I am sure Burgon is up to dealing with any knotty legal questions that might turn up, unlikely to be any I suppose.

So whose fault is that given the numbers of MPs throwing their toys out of the pram?

Oh,. that's right - it's Corbyn's!

When they grow up maybe they'll see that "damaging the party" isn't the fault of one person and one side.

Enough - this is getting tiresome.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:03 am

yahyah wrote:

Found this retweeted by Peter Jukes. He certainly isn't a 'Corbyn cultist'.

Willow's from that neck of the woods, it'll be interesting if she, or anyone else has heard reports of, or was at, the meeting.

Hi. I'm NE Somerset so not my area. Bristol West was won by Labour from the Libdems just last year, it's not a traditional Labour area. In fact, I believe it was a target seat for the Greens.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:04 am

Nor shadow Disability.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:05 am

I read in the comments BTL at the Guardian blog that Jeremy Corbyn had gone on holiday " again". I investigated.

He is at a meeting of the PES ( Party of European Socialists) in Paris.

http://www.pes.eu/pes_in_paris_post_bre ... _challenge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a link within the article to today's meeting which is about refugees.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:07 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Have ordered copy of the New European - has anyone seen it in the flesh yet?

Well, I haven't. Any help?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:08 am

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:17 am

Thanks for the frock advice going for the £1,375 Latymer dress in black,in recognition of Toby's efforts.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:24 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
yahyah wrote:It all seems so black and white, so polarised.
There is middle ground.
There must be a lot of Labour members who are like general voters, their opinions and feelings shift with time or circumstances.

If a genuine centre ground candidate comes forward, someone who could unify the party and is a strong candidate, they would get my vote.

Edited to add...what I'd really like is someone intelligent, charismatic in a good way, capable, able to connect with voters, appears centrist but is able to shift us to the left without scaring the horses...
where is such a person ?
Well that's certainly how it's being presented.

BUT, as I keep pointing out, the Shadow Cabinet includes Andy Burnham, Debbie Abrahams & Angela Rayner. Also Emily Thornberry.

I don't see these politicians as far left cultists in any way at all. Abrahams, Rayner and Thornberry are not hugely experienced politicians, but all had successful real world careers. Why don't we hear more from these people?
the shadow cabinet also includes

Richard Burgon - Shadow Lord Chancellor

Paul Flynn Shadow Leader of the House, and Shadow Sec of State for Wales

Kelvin Hopkins - Shadow Culture

Diane Abbot - Shadow Sec of State for Health

Clive Lewis - Shadow Sec of State for Defence

Rebecca Long-Bailey - Shadow Sec to the Treasury

and the not very Scottish David Anderson is Sec of State for Scotland

We don't have a shadow attorney general any longer. I am sure Burgon is up to dealing with any knotty legal questions that might turn up, unlikely to be any I suppose.

Well I know, but I'm sure we've heard enough from Diane Abbot for a while. Instead I wanted to focus on Debbie Abrahams, Angela Rayner and Emily Thornberry, if that's OK with you.

I know Debbie a bit. She's spent most of her life around what we call the Northern Powerhouse (sic.) these days, born in Yorkshire, Uni in Manchester, worked in Liverpool and Rochdale. I met her when she was Labour candidate in our constituency in 2010, when Labour were horribly squeezed by Lib Dem lies (story for another day) and came third.

She was then selected as Labour's candidate for Saddleworth & Oldham East on Phil Woolas's departure and won a hotly contested by-election. She worked closely with Burnham on health policy, drawing on her huge experience in the NHS. She's also run an award-winning campaign around the effects of late-paying on small businesses. She's really active on Twitter and I'd recommend a follow. Softly spoken, but likely to be forensic in deconstructing Smith's lies I'm delighted to see her as Shadow Secretary of State for Work & Pensions.

On a personal note, she's married to John Abrahams, a reasonably well known South African cricketer who played for Lancashire and has managed the England under 19s (may still do). The Abrahams family were notable for opposing race segregation in south african cricket.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:28 am

Happen to like her,swayed by her responding to my tweets.Thanks for info.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:30 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
yahyah wrote:Someone who obviously disagrees with the young man mentioned in the previous post.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Same link I just posted

Clearly anger on both sides. Reflects the online world.

Majority clearly pro-Corbyn, angry at dissentients. Longstanding members uncomfortable with change in the party membership.

Certain irony in those calling for unity telling dissenting voices to leave of course.

More like "long standing members use their knowledge of party rules and bureaucracy to thwart the wishes of the majority" reading that.

The irony is that I can remember - and have experienced - when the left used to run local parties and used just the same tactics to stop others from getting their way. Also that they viewed new entrants with suspicion ("they just believe what the papers tell them" and similar)

For all its problems. the Labour party now has over half a million members. Embrace them, and use them.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:31 am

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall ... albot-sale

But the real problem is that no one is quite sure exactly how that position changes. Do the changes increase the profitability of the plant and thus its value? Or reduce them both?

This is a useful example of the general business case about Brexit. It isn’t that the UK’s business environment will be unequivocally better, or worse, in or out of the EU. It’s the uncertainty over exactly which industries will be affected and how. This is also something that the government could clear up quite quickly if it actually wished to. Announce that the good things that Brexit allows us to do (slashing regulation for example) are going to go ahead whatever the trade deals are[ and that will make business more confident about investment decisions.

grrr.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 Jul, 2016 10:34 am

graun live wrote:Just in time for him to leave office, David Cameron is taking his first trip on his new plane, the so-called ‘Dave Force One’ or ‘Camcord’, to the Nato summit in Warsaw.

Dave off on hols again.