Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 2:32 pm

Lovely parody Tweet

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 2:34 pm

Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 2:42 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I like the introductory paragraph to that ~~serious article~~ fawning puff piece:

Stephen Kinnock, the ambitious Labour backstabber who has taken a prominent role in the campaign to save the Port Talbot steelworks, has said the shadow business secretary, Angela Eagle, would make a great Labour leader.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 2:48 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After the past fortnight's performance, how could she possibly be the leader of anything?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 2:51 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
After the past fortnight's performance, how could she possibly be the leader of anything?

I've been chuckling all week at Robert S's "Angela Eagle? Angela Duck more like"

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 2:52 pm

The silly thing is, I used to think Eagle was OK and wasn't very sure about Corbyn.....

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:05 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I like the introductory paragraph to that ~~serious article~~ fawning puff piece:

Stephen Kinnock, the ambitious Labour backstabber who has taken a prominent role in the campaign to save the Port Talbot steelworks, has said the shadow business secretary, Angela Eagle, would make a great Labour leader.

I'd read an earlier article about Kinnock Senior's passionate plea for Corbyn to be unseated. And now the piece by his son.

Does anyone else see a pattern?

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:09 pm

Kinnock was the first to appear on tv moaning about all the bullying he had to put up with,also his son,stephen talked about how he was bullied at school.
They have very short memories when it suits.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:17 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:The bulk of legal advice suggests he is on the ballot automatically if he does not resign (it has been suggested the rules on this were changed after the 2010 GE, maybe Kinnock did not notice?)
Ah, thanks.

I set out the legal arguments here

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2015 ... rbyn-coup/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:26 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-36750954" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
European Dorset-based success "terrified" over Brexit.
It's criminal. I can see lawsuits.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:26 pm

PS: I don't mean I can literally see them - and (as you may have noticed) am not actually a lawyer.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:27 pm

Have just noticed JustMom's avatar.
(waves nicely)

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:37 pm

Waves back at tinyclanger...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:40 pm

Matt Haig ‏@matthaig1 1h1 hour ago

Andrea Leadsom is so familiar. She's a hybrid of village fete cake judge, sitcom neighbour, small business advisor, freemason and nightmare.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:55 pm

Maeght wrote:Paul Mason

http://mondediplo.com/2016/07/03brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Divided nation

For the left, the immediate opportunity lies in an election. There is no certainty the incoming Tory leader will call one, but it’s hard to negotiate without a mandate. Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election.

This was the self-destructive myopia of a political generation not trained for conflict and adversity. Faced with the most significant political catastrophe of their lifetime, and the chance to assume the mantle of leading the nation, Labour MPs chose to fight each other.

Paul Mason just reads out lines from Momentum nowadays. He's making no sense at all. The non-Corbyn MPs could surf the alleged popularity of Corbyn and then do a very British Coup against him.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:58 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
After the past fortnight's performance, how could she possibly be the leader of anything?

The public loves it when parties kick out leaders they see as extreme. See John Major.

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:01 pm

I didn't see it ( I no longer watch due to the swearing...apparently I turn in to Malcolm Tucker ) but this is my position too :

Ian Hislop: 'Remainers are entitled to go on making the argument'

"Even if you lose the vote you are entitled to go on making the argument".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36742691" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:04 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://stv.tv/news/politics/1360183-bre ... -scotland/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
"An independent Scotland committed to the EU would have an extraordinary opportunity to attract inward investment as well as highly skilled migrants.
I feel a sort of reverse Britain coming on in due course. When all the people in the southeast are complaining about the Holyrood bubble ...

They've got the biggest deficit in Europe to take care of first.

Ireland will fight them all the way for the Brexit scraps.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:05 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Maeght wrote:Paul Mason

http://mondediplo.com/2016/07/03brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Divided nation

For the left, the immediate opportunity lies in an election. There is no certainty the incoming Tory leader will call one, but it’s hard to negotiate without a mandate. Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election.

This was the self-destructive myopia of a political generation not trained for conflict and adversity. Faced with the most significant political catastrophe of their lifetime, and the chance to assume the mantle of leading the nation, Labour MPs chose to fight each other.
Paul Mason just reads out lines from Momentum nowadays. He's making no sense at all. The non-Corbyn MPs could surf the alleged popularity of Corbyn and then do a very British Coup against him.

(my bold)

I hadn't thought of that.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:10 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
After the past fortnight's performance, how could she possibly be the leader of anything?
The public loves it when parties kick out leaders they see as extreme. See John Major.

Major was seen as the "continuity Thatcher " candidate at the time, if anything.

And she was ousted for important reasons, not because Labour MPs had a collective wobbly at the idea of a snap election that almost certainly now won't happen.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:16 pm

Serial election-loser Neil Kinnock’s anti-Corbyn tirade is beyond ironic

http://evolvepolitics.com/kinnocks-blus ... hypocrisy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:20 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Serial election-loser Neil Kinnock’s anti-Corbyn tirade is beyond ironic

http://evolvepolitics.com/kinnocks-blus ... hypocrisy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most things are these days.

pala · Post by **pala** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:24 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Maeght wrote:Paul Mason

http://mondediplo.com/2016/07/03brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Divided nation

For the left, the immediate opportunity lies in an election. There is no certainty the incoming Tory leader will call one, but it’s hard to negotiate without a mandate. Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election.

This was the self-destructive myopia of a political generation not trained for conflict and adversity. Faced with the most significant political catastrophe of their lifetime, and the chance to assume the mantle of leading the nation, Labour MPs chose to fight each other.
Paul Mason just reads out lines from Momentum nowadays. He's making no sense at all. The non-Corbyn MPs could surf the alleged popularity of Corbyn and then do a very British Coup against him.

That seems doubtful to me. It's not even as if Mason is particularly radical.

Also, btw:

I am dismayed at the statement issued by Tom Watson announcing his withdrawal from talks aimed at resolving the crisis in the Labour party.

Extraordinarily, I received no notice of this statement before it was issued. I had made arrangements for a meeting of trade union leaders, Tom Watson and representatives of the PLP and the party leader for tomorrow, arrangements requested by Tom Watson and his colleagues, specifically for Mr Watson’s convenience.

In that context, when the possibility of a workable plan had never seemed closer, Tom Watson’s actions today can only look like an act of sabotage fraught with peril for the future of the Labour party.

I must clarify one point in Tom Watson’s statement – I made it absolutely clear from the outset of these discussions that Jeremy Corbyn’s resignation as the leader was not on the agenda.

Watson knew that, and it is entirely wrong to suggest that any public statement by Jeremy represented any change in the situation. This is a deeply disingenuous manoeuvre.

I will continue to work with trade union colleagues and others to chart a way forward, including meeting the legitimate concerns of Labour MPs.

Len McKluskey.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:29 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
After the past fortnight's performance, how could she possibly be the leader of anything?
The public loves it when parties kick out leaders they see as extreme. See John Major.

As I recall things, Kinnock was heralded as the "moderate left" leader who would chuck out Militant (which needed to be done, their leadership in particular were poisonous), accept Trident, diminish the role of the unions, not go round nationalising things, not frighten the horses and above all not be Michael Foot.

And for even more voter and Murdoch appeal had Hattersley as his "Labour right wing" deputy leader.

That worked out well didn't it.

And nowadays Hatteresly is of the "old Labour left" according to our Tory-supporting media.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:41 pm

"Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched
an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election."

- Paul Mason

http://mondediplo.com/2016/07/03brexit#tout-en-haut" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is this true? Serious question.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:51 pm

Hot on the heels of that berk who resigned live on air on The Daily Politics just before pmq's (who's name I forget) Angela Eagle is said to be launching her leadership bid live on air on Peston , Sunday morning " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 4:57 pm

Then she will be dashing across town to appear live with Andrew Neil to announce it yet again, live on air. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:06 pm

Dave Ward
‏@DaveWardGS

Some of the PLP are putting the future of the Party at risk #TheCWU #KeepCorbyn

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:08 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Then she will be dashing across town to appear live with Andrew Neil to announce it yet again, live on air. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it wasn't for sticking to my principles re Corbyn being democratically elected I'd be running a country mile from supporting or voting for Labour.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:09 pm

citizenJA wrote:
"Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched
an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election."

- Paul Mason

http://mondediplo.com/2016/07/03brexit#tout-en-haut" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is this true? Serious question.

Well, the "immediate coup" bit is self-evidently true yes. About the precise motivation, you will have to ask the people in question.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:10 pm

A Corbyn led Labour Party going into an election will make Neil Kinnock look good.

Kinnock, a man who showed more guts than Corbyn will ever have to, but hey never let history get in the way of a good narrative.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:13 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
mbc1955 wrote: After the past fortnight's performance, how could she possibly be the leader of anything?
The public loves it when parties kick out leaders they see as extreme. See John Major.
Major was seen as the "continuity Thatcher " candidate at the time, if anything.

And she was ousted for important reasons, not because Labour MPs had a collective wobbly at the idea of a snap election that almost certainly now won't happen.

You genuinely think Corbyn's long standing support for Brexit and early comments suggesting an anti-immigration and therefore no single market stance aren't real issues for a significant number of Labour supporters and voters, then?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:16 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
"Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched
an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election."

- Paul Mason

http://mondediplo.com/2016/07/03brexit#tout-en-haut" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is this true? Serious question.
Well, the "immediate coup" bit is self-evidently true yes. About the precise motivation, you will have to ask the people in question.

(my bold)

A Blairite right-wing section of the Labour party launching an immediate coup preventing a left-led Labour government is self-evidently true?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:20 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Angela Eagle would be a great Labour leader, says Stephen Kinnock

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... en-kinnock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I like the introductory paragraph to that ~~serious article~~ fawning puff piece:

Stephen Kinnock, the ambitious Labour backstabber who has taken a prominent role in the campaign to save the Port Talbot steelworks, has said the shadow business secretary, Angela Eagle, would make a great Labour leader.
I'd read an earlier article about Kinnock Senior's passionate plea for Corbyn to be unseated. And now the piece by his son.

Does anyone else see a pattern?

Well they are both grounded in reality and they both live in the real world, and they both desperately want to save Labour from being destroyed by the Tory party at the next election.

So I guess there is a pattern.

Anybody seriously, for one second think that Corbyn could possibly come within a country mile of winning an election?

Please provide evidence, in the form of polls, or real election results (small party elections don't count).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:22 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Is this true? Serious question.
Well, the "immediate coup" bit is self-evidently true yes. About the precise motivation, you will have to ask the people in question.
(my bold)

A Blairite right-wing section of the Labour party launching an immediate coup preventing a left-led Labour government is self-evidently true?

No, just that there was an "immediate coup". That is factually correct, all else is conjecture of varying degrees.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:23 pm

Corbyn's "there is no pressure on me" speech from the Miners' Gala

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-36750069" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“There’s a lot of debate about what’s happening in the Labour Party at the present time and I’m inundated with questions, questions, questions all the time and I have patience that is infinite to answer questions, questions and questions.

“But one I got today really did puzzle me. They said ‘how are you coping with the pressure that’s on you’. I simply said this: “There is no pressure on me, none whatsoever.

“Real pressure - real pressure - is when you don’t have enough money to feed your kids, when you don’t have a roof over your head, when you are wondering if you are going to be cared for, when you are wondering how you can survive, you are wondering how you are going to cope with the debts you have incurred, you are wondering if your lovely employer is going to give you a call to give you a couple of hours work or not bother, or change their mind when you are on the bus on the way to do that job.

“That is the real pressure in our society.”

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:23 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
mbc1955 wrote: After the past fortnight's performance, how could she possibly be the leader of anything?
The public loves it when parties kick out leaders they see as extreme. See John Major.
As I recall things, Kinnock was heralded as the "moderate left" leader who would chuck out Militant (which needed to be done, their leadership in particular were poisonous), accept Trident, diminish the role of the unions, not go round nationalising things, not frighten the horses and above all not be Michael Foot.

And for even more voter and Murdoch appeal had Hattersley as his "Labour right wing" deputy leader.

That worked out well didn't it.

And nowadays Hatteresly is of the "old Labour left" according to our Tory-supporting media.

You're answering some different point.

Kinnock's toughest issue was the perceived disaster of the Callaghan government. Unfair on both of them. How that translates into them crying out for Benn and Corby,God knows.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:25 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Is this true? Serious question.
Well, the "immediate coup" bit is self-evidently true yes. About the precise motivation, you will have to ask the people in question.
(my bold)

A Blairite right-wing section of the Labour party launching an immediate coup preventing a left-led Labour government is self-evidently true?

Mason is delusional, so much so that I wonder if his recent departure from his job had more to it.

His statement would only be true if Corbyn was ahead in the polls, or if his recent local election results showed a party on course to retake power. In fact in both cases the exact opposite is true. In polling he is the worst opposition leader, possibly ever, in real elections he is underperforming Miliband significantly.

So either Mason has lost it, or there is a massive conspiracy involving THE ENTIRE ELECTORATE.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:30 pm

Ephie@
Thanks for the message but I can't open it.

Maybe Dan can help ? I get a page that says parsing error:syntax error unexpected when I try to open it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:34 pm

Eagle finally made up her mind then ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 5:59 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:A Corbyn led Labour Party going into an election will make Neil Kinnock look good.

Kinnock, a man who showed more guts than Corbyn will ever have to, but hey never let history get in the way of a good narrative.

I liked the man and was quite happy to vote for him. Was very sorry when he lost. But I don't like what he's doing now.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:02 pm

Well I, for one, look forward to Corbyn beating the 'flip flopper' Eagle and then we can stop all this nonsense

The PLP can then decide what they do afterwards

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:06 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:A Corbyn led Labour Party going into an election will make Neil Kinnock look good.

Kinnock, a man who showed more guts than Corbyn will ever have to, but hey never let history get in the way of a good narrative.
I liked the man and was quite happy to vote for him. Was very sorry when he lost. But I don't like what he's doing now.

How many Labour leaders have actually won an election since 1979?

The sum total of 1 - an initial win that was more based on a vote against the Tories and the man who won it has now been thoroughly discredited and is a borderline criminal

The way some people act is that Labour not winning at the next election is totally linked with Corbyn!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:07 pm

Bloody Andrea Leadsom.

Let me be crystal clear - I've heard the tape, you stupid woman.

And as for, "It may be what I said but it wasn't what I meant".

PM? Good God. What next? She declares war on France but, "It may be what I said but it . . . . "?

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:13 pm

If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:18 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:(my bold)

A Blairite right-wing section of the Labour party launching an immediate coup preventing a left-led Labour government is self-evidently true?
Mason is delusional, so much so that I wonder if his recent departure from his job had more to it.

His statement would only be true if Corbyn was ahead in the polls, or if his recent local election results showed a party on course to retake power. In fact in both cases the exact opposite is true. In polling he is the worst opposition leader, possibly ever, in real elections he is underperforming Miliband significantly.

So either Mason has lost it, or there is a massive conspiracy involving THE ENTIRE ELECTORATE.
Labour had drawn level in the polls and the Tory party was about to go into meltdown. There was absolutely no reason to suspect that Labour could not have gone into a GE campaign at the very least level pegging. The coup threw all that out the window. The previous elections really don't have much bearing as the circumstances have changed dramatically. I can barely be arsed retreading these arguments yet again, but just in case anyone was thinking this perspective is unchallenged... Polls: methodology and weighting has changed since Miliband was in charge with the effect of marking Labour down; elections: Labour did far better in the local elections than anyone predicted and more or less equalled the 2012 high water mark, at the same point in the electoral cycle as the disappointing 2011 local elections. Not that any of that mattered on 24 June, but hey.

I think you're wasting your breath ... I'm still waiting for an answer as to why David Miliband's name was on a Opinium poll asking about choosing a Labour leader.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:19 pm

JustMom wrote:If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.

Yes !

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:25 pm

JustMom wrote:If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.

As Willow said, the complete mess being made of by far the most important issue by Corbyn is a big problem for lots of us Labour voters.

Given Corbyn didn't turn up for debates in the referendum, he might not turn up for them in the election, I suppose. But if he does, we won't be impressed to see a Labour leader telling Tim Farron to "respect the will of the people" and criticising Theresa May.for delaying.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:26 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:(my bold)

A Blairite right-wing section of the Labour party launching an immediate coup preventing a left-led Labour government is self-evidently true?
Mason is delusional, so much so that I wonder if his recent departure from his job had more to it.

His statement would only be true if Corbyn was ahead in the polls, or if his recent local election results showed a party on course to retake power. In fact in both cases the exact opposite is true. In polling he is the worst opposition leader, possibly ever, in real elections he is underperforming Miliband significantly.

So either Mason has lost it, or there is a massive conspiracy involving THE ENTIRE ELECTORATE.
Labour had drawn level in the polls and the Tory party was about to go into meltdown. There was absolutely no reason to suspect that Labour could not have gone into a GE campaign at the very least level pegging. The coup threw all that out the window. The previous elections really don't have much bearing as the circumstances have changed dramatically. I can barely be arsed retreading these arguments yet again, but just in case anyone was thinking this perspective is unchallenged... Polls: methodology and weighting has changed since Miliband was in charge with the effect of marking Labour down; elections: Labour did far better in the local elections than anyone predicted and more or less equalled the 2012 high water mark, at the same point in the electoral cycle as the disappointing 2011 local elections. Not that any of that mattered on 24 June, but hey.

There is a clear correlation between local election results and General Election results, it showed Miliband wasn't far enough ahead then to win, and Corbyn is much further behind now. The people who correctly called 2015 used the locals as their guide.

Polls are polls, but the Tory Party had gone into total meltdown before this kicked off, and the absolute best (versus no PM) we could manage was level pegging. Even Foot did better than that. Last time I looked it was -7.

Are you seriously claiming a mid term poll, showing a government and opposition on level pegging suggests that indicates a GE would start from the same place? Explain how you just threw out 30 years of history?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:28 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
JustMom wrote:If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.
As Willow said, the complete mess being made of by far the most important issue by Corbyn is a big problem for lots of us Labour voters.

Given Corbyn didn't turn up for debates in the referendum, he might not turn up for them in the election, I suppose. But if he does, we won't be impressed to see a Labour leader telling Tim Farron to "respect the will of the people" and criticising Theresa May.for delaying.

Just another excuse, before it was the local elections, , before that it was Oldham and before that it was meeting with Hamas

The moaning you have all made about the EU refrendum is massively overblown from my view and is just another excuse to call for a change of leader

You have your view, it doesn't mean it is right