Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016

[JustMom]

But why not,he would only be obeying the will of the electorate. As for anything else that has been said about him,I wouldn't believe one word.
They have constantly lied about him and run to the press about him,it even looked as if they were working hand in hand with the tories.
They are bullies the lot of them,and I shall be voting for Jeremy.

[howsillyofme1]

Mason is delusional, so much so that I wonder if his recent departure from his job had more to it.

His statement would only be true if Corbyn was ahead in the polls, or if his recent local election results showed a party on course to retake power. In fact in both cases the exact opposite is true. In polling he is the worst opposition leader, possibly ever, in real elections he is underperforming Miliband significantly.

So either Mason has lost it, or there is a massive conspiracy involving THE ENTIRE ELECTORATE.

Labour had drawn level in the polls and the Tory party was about to go into meltdown. There was absolutely no reason to suspect that Labour could not have gone into a GE campaign at the very least level pegging. The coup threw all that out the window. The previous elections really don't have much bearing as the circumstances have changed dramatically. I can barely be arsed retreading these arguments yet again, but just in case anyone was thinking this perspective is unchallenged... Polls: methodology and weighting has changed since Miliband was in charge with the effect of marking Labour down; elections: Labour did far better in the local elections than anyone predicted and more or less equalled the 2012 high water mark, at the same point in the electoral cycle as the disappointing 2011 local elections. Not that any of that mattered on 24 June, but hey.

There is a clear correlation between local election results and General Election results, it showed Miliband wasn't far enough ahead then to win, and Corbyn is much further behind now. The people who correctly called 2015 used the locals as their guide.

Polls are polls, but the Tory Party had gone into total meltdown before this kicked off, and the absolute best (versus no PM) we could manage was level pegging. Even Foot did better than that. Last time I looked it was -7.

Are you seriously claiming a mid term poll, showing a government and opposition on level pegging suggests that indicates a GE would start from the same place? Explain how you just threw out 30 years of history?

Was Corbyn the leader in 2010 and 2015?

Was he the reason we lost in 2015?

Kinnock managed to lose twice......all Corbyn's fault too I guess

I asked you to provide a definitive link to back-up your claims - which were that Corbyn was on course to get 20% in the next GE....you provided one that said no such thing

[TechnicalEphemera]

If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.

Yes !

No it wouldnt, and to pretend it would is pointless. The challenge (it is following due process) is because all evidence shows Corbyn is losing the party support everywhere, and especially in the battleground seats that matter. All of that happened before the challenge.

Most people pay almost no attention to politics until just before an election, they then seem to decide on who they trust to run the country (defence->economy->other stuff being the majority priorities).

Faced with a choice between Corbyn and anybody the polls tell us it won't be Corbyn. The polls also told us, by smaller margins, it wouldn't be Ed last time).

[ohsocynical]

I can't put the image up because it's too large, but this is very interesting and explains why Champion resigned. I was very disappointed to read she'd gone over.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm7n3LeXEAExlp3.jpg:large" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[howsillyofme1]

If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.

Yes !

No it wouldnt, and to pretend it would is pointless. The challenge (it is following due process) is because all evidence shows Corbyn is losing the party support everywhere, and especially in the battleground seats that matter. All of that happened before the challenge.

Most people pay almost no attention to politics until just before an election, they then seem to decide on who they trust to run the country (defence->economy->other stuff being the majority priorities).

Faced with a choice between Corbyn and anybody the polls tell us it won't be Corbyn. The polls also told us, by smaller margins, it wouldn't be Ed last time).

Losing support because of the behaviour of the PLP since his election perhaps?

Look at what McCluskey has said today about Watson?

This is not about winning elections, this is about left vs right

[ohsocynical]

But why not,he would only be obeying the will of the electorate. As for anything else that has been said about him,I wouldn't believe one word.
They have constantly lied about him and run to the press about him,it even looked as if they were working hand in hand with the tories.
They are bullies the lot of them,and I shall be voting for Jeremy.

TechnicalEphemera has been against Corbyn from day one, so it's nothing to do with his record leading the party or any of the other reasons he gives.

You'll never change his mind.

[Tubby Isaacs]

If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.

As Willow said, the complete mess being made of by far the most important issue by Corbyn is a big problem for lots of us Labour voters.

Given Corbyn didn't turn up for debates in the referendum, he might not turn up for them in the election, I suppose. But if he does, we won't be impressed to see a Labour leader telling Tim Farron to "respect the will of the people" and criticising Theresa May.for delaying.

Just another excuse, before it was the local elections, , before that it was Oldham and before that it was meeting with Hamas

The moaning you have all made about the EU refrendum is massively overblown from my view and is just another excuse to call for a change of leader

You have your view, it doesn't mean it is right

Billions have disappeared over Brexit, with doubtless more to follow.

That's the good Corbyn policy on public investment basically undone.

[RogerOThornhill]

No it wouldnt, and to pretend it would is pointless. The challenge (it is following due process) is because all evidence shows Corbyn is losing the party support everywhere, and especially in the battleground seats that matter. All of that happened before the challenge.

Most people pay almost no attention to politics until just before an election, they then seem to decide on who they trust to run the country (defence->economy->other stuff being the majority priorities).

Faced with a choice between Corbyn and anybody the polls tell us it won't be Corbyn. The polls also told us, by smaller margins, it wouldn't be Ed last time).

So tell us who you want as leader?

I only ask because right now all of the possible contenders have shown absolutely no inclination to get off their arses and do anything about it but whinge about what they see as going wrong.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Labour had drawn level in the polls and the Tory party was about to go into meltdown. There was absolutely no reason to suspect that Labour could not have gone into a GE campaign at the very least level pegging. The coup threw all that out the window. The previous elections really don't have much bearing as the circumstances have changed dramatically. I can barely be arsed retreading these arguments yet again, but just in case anyone was thinking this perspective is unchallenged... Polls: methodology and weighting has changed since Miliband was in charge with the effect of marking Labour down; elections: Labour did far better in the local elections than anyone predicted and more or less equalled the 2012 high water mark, at the same point in the electoral cycle as the disappointing 2011 local elections. Not that any of that mattered on 24 June, but hey.

There is a clear correlation between local election results and General Election results, it showed Miliband wasn't far enough ahead then to win, and Corbyn is much further behind now. The people who correctly called 2015 used the locals as their guide.

Polls are polls, but the Tory Party had gone into total meltdown before this kicked off, and the absolute best (versus no PM) we could manage was level pegging. Even Foot did better than that. Last time I looked it was -7.

Are you seriously claiming a mid term poll, showing a government and opposition on level pegging suggests that indicates a GE would start from the same place? Explain how you just threw out 30 years of history?

Was Corbyn the leader in 2010 and 2015?

Was he the reason we lost in 2015?

Kinnock managed to lose twice......all Corbyn's fault too I guess

I asked you to provide a definitive link to back-up your claims - which were that Corbyn was on course to get 20% in the next GE....you provided one that said no such thing

No you did not ask me that at all. Stop trolling.

You claimed that - local elections were unrelated to general election results and called me a liar for claiming they were.

You then claimed you had searched for such evidence and could I provide a link.

I googled it and within one hit found a paper showing a linkage between the two (which leads me to doubt the veracity of your previous statement or your ability to use Google).

Out of entirely misplaced belief you would understand it I posted the link. Note there are many other similar links which give equivalent or worse projections.

For the observers that link predicted a GE result of Tory 37, Corbyn 30.

I never claimed I was using that projection as the basis of my argument for 20-25%.

Which as I explained previously is down to the fact real results show Corbyn doing worse than Miliband by 5 points (30->25), polling showing Labour losing 2015 voters and a belief that his campaign team is utterly shambolic (based on what we have seen to date) so he will underperform relative to Ed in the campaign. The importance of the local election is simply that it provides real evidence not dodgy polling that shows him underperforming Ed.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Silly, I disappeared off here after Brexit! It means a lot.

[howsillyofme1]

As Willow said, the complete mess being made of by far the most important issue by Corbyn is a big problem for lots of us Labour voters.

Given Corbyn didn't turn up for debates in the referendum, he might not turn up for them in the election, I suppose. But if he does, we won't be impressed to see a Labour leader telling Tim Farron to "respect the will of the people" and criticising Theresa May.for delaying.

Just another excuse, before it was the local elections, , before that it was Oldham and before that it was meeting with Hamas

The moaning you have all made about the EU refrendum is massively overblown from my view and is just another excuse to call for a change of leader

You have your view, it doesn't mean it is right

Billions have disappeared over Brexit, with doubtless more to follow.

That's the good Corbyn policy on public investment basically undone.

That is not Corbyn's fault though is it.......that is the fault of a man you seem to think is 'Prime Minister' class. Possibly because he sounds posh, speaks with a nice accent and is a oily liar.

[Tubby Isaacs]

No it wouldnt, and to pretend it would is pointless. The challenge (it is following due process) is because all evidence shows Corbyn is losing the party support everywhere, and especially in the battleground seats that matter. All of that happened before the challenge.

Most people pay almost no attention to politics until just before an election, they then seem to decide on who they trust to run the country (defence->economy->other stuff being the majority priorities).

Faced with a choice between Corbyn and anybody the polls tell us it won't be Corbyn. The polls also told us, by smaller margins, it wouldn't be Ed last time).

So tell us who you want as leader?

I only ask because right now all of the possible contenders have shown absolutely no inclination to get off their arses and do anything about it but whinge about what they see as going wrong.

Owen Smith. He's collected signatures but rightly concluded Corbyn can't be beaten.

[refitman]

I can't put the image up because it's too large, but this is very interesting and explains why Champion resigned. I was very disappointed to read she'd gone over.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm7n3LeXEAExlp3.jpg:large" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TechnicalEphemera]

No it wouldnt, and to pretend it would is pointless. The challenge (it is following due process) is because all evidence shows Corbyn is losing the party support everywhere, and especially in the battleground seats that matter. All of that happened before the challenge.

Most people pay almost no attention to politics until just before an election, they then seem to decide on who they trust to run the country (defence->economy->other stuff being the majority priorities).

Faced with a choice between Corbyn and anybody the polls tell us it won't be Corbyn. The polls also told us, by smaller margins, it wouldn't be Ed last time).

So tell us who you want as leader?

I only ask because right now all of the possible contenders have shown absolutely no inclination to get off their arses and do anything about it but whinge about what they see as going wrong.

I have already answered this. In fact anybody from the centre left who can communicate a vision will do.

Eagle, or Smith (assuming he still intends to stand). Yes I realise there are no guarantees it will be better but the ship is currently sinking so trying out some sort of lifeboat is a better option.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Just another excuse, before it was the local elections, , before that it was Oldham and before that it was meeting with Hamas

The moaning you have all made about the EU refrendum is massively overblown from my view and is just another excuse to call for a change of leader

You have your view, it doesn't mean it is right

Billions have disappeared over Brexit, with doubtless more to follow.

That's the good Corbyn policy on public investment basically undone.

That is not Corbyn's fault though is it.......that is the fault of a man you seem to think is 'Prime Minister' class. Possibly because he sounds posh, speaks with a nice accent and is a oily liar.

It needs fighting, like Tim Farron says he will.

It goes without saying Cameron is most culpable. But Corbyn wanted a referendum too. (As did the Lib Dems but they at least won their stripes back on this issue in the Coalition)

[howsillyofme1]

There is a clear correlation between local election results and General Election results, it showed Miliband wasn't far enough ahead then to win, and Corbyn is much further behind now. The people who correctly called 2015 used the locals as their guide.

Polls are polls, but the Tory Party had gone into total meltdown before this kicked off, and the absolute best (versus no PM) we could manage was level pegging. Even Foot did better than that. Last time I looked it was -7.

Are you seriously claiming a mid term poll, showing a government and opposition on level pegging suggests that indicates a GE would start from the same place? Explain how you just threw out 30 years of history?

Was Corbyn the leader in 2010 and 2015?

Was he the reason we lost in 2015?

Kinnock managed to lose twice......all Corbyn's fault too I guess

I asked you to provide a definitive link to back-up your claims - which were that Corbyn was on course to get 20% in the next GE....you provided one that said no such thing

No you did not ask me that at all. Stop trolling.

You claimed that - local elections were unrelated to general election results and called me a liar for claiming they were.

You then claimed you had searched for such evidence and could I provide a link.

I googled it and within one hit found a paper showing a linkage between the two (which leads me to doubt the veracity of your previous statement or your ability to use Google).

Out of entirely misplaced belief you would understand it I posted the link. Note there are many other similar links which give equivalent or worse projections.

For the observers that link predicted a GE result of Tory 37, Corbyn 30.

I never claimed I was using that projection as the basis of my argument for 20-25%.

Which as I explained previously is down to the fact real results show Corbyn doing worse than Miliband by 5 points (30->25), polling showing Labour losing 2015 voters and a belief that his campaign team is utterly shambolic (based on what we have seen to date) so he will underperform relative to Ed in the campaign. The importance of the local election is simply that it provides real evidence not dodgy polling that shows him underperforming Ed.

I don't think it is worth replying to you, you arrogant prat....don't accuse me of trolling again!

[howsillyofme1]

Billions have disappeared over Brexit, with doubtless more to follow.

That's the good Corbyn policy on public investment basically undone.

That is not Corbyn's fault though is it.......that is the fault of a man you seem to think is 'Prime Minister' class. Possibly because he sounds posh, speaks with a nice accent and is a oily liar.

It needs fighting, like Tim Farron says he will.

It goes without saying Cameron is most culpable. But Corbyn wanted a referendum too. (As did the Lib Dems but they at least won their stripes back on this issue in the Coalition)

Tubby I keep asking you how it can be stopped and you never give an answer......one idea you gave was that we leave and then rejoin....

Farron does this because his party is at a point where there is little risk

[mbc1955]

But why not,he would only be obeying the will of the electorate. As for anything else that has been said about him,I wouldn't believe one word.
They have constantly lied about him and run to the press about him,it even looked as if they were working hand in hand with the tories.
They are bullies the lot of them,and I shall be voting for Jeremy.

TechnicalEphemera has been against Corbyn from day one, so it's nothing to do with his record leading the party or any of the other reasons he gives.

You'll never change his mind.

Yes, he's as completely monotone as Hugo, and equally fruitful to debate.

[ohsocynical]

No it wouldnt, and to pretend it would is pointless. The challenge (it is following due process) is because all evidence shows Corbyn is losing the party support everywhere, and especially in the battleground seats that matter. All of that happened before the challenge.

Most people pay almost no attention to politics until just before an election, they then seem to decide on who they trust to run the country (defence->economy->other stuff being the majority priorities).

Faced with a choice between Corbyn and anybody the polls tell us it won't be Corbyn. The polls also told us, by smaller margins, it wouldn't be Ed last time).

So tell us who you want as leader?

I only ask because right now all of the possible contenders have shown absolutely no inclination to get off their arses and do anything about it but whinge about what they see as going wrong.

A bunch of cowardly men hiding behind a woman's skirts and she's let herself be used. More fool her.
Another reason why I don't set much store by women politicians.

[ohsocynical]

I can't put the image up because it's too large, but this is very interesting and explains why Champion resigned. I was very disappointed to read she'd gone over.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm7n3LeXEAExlp3.jpg:large" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks Dan.

[RogerOThornhill]

Hat-tip to Chris Cook for raking this one up.



Chaos with Ed Miliband eh?

[tinyclanger2]

i turn my back for five minutes ...

[tinybgoat]

If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.

As Willow said, the complete mess being made of by far the most important issue by Corbyn is a big problem for lots of us Labour voters.

Given Corbyn didn't turn up for debates in the referendum, he might not turn up for them in the election, I suppose. But if he does, we won't be impressed to see a Labour leader telling Tim Farron to "respect the will of the people" and criticising Theresa May.for delaying.

Do we have any idea of what Angela Eagle's
stance will be on dealing with brexit vote,
with regard to "will of the people" and when to leave?
I'd possibly be swayed by a Labour Leader standing against leaving, but from conversations I've had at work, think most people (pro brexit & pro remain) won't.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I can't put the image up because it's too large, but this is very interesting and explains why Champion resigned. I was very disappointed to read she'd gone over.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm7n3LeXEAExlp3.jpg:large" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It doesn't really, tbh. Her selection was indeed quite controversial but she is by all accounts now very popular locally.

And as events after the by-election demonstrated, the party in Rotherham needed sorting out. Miliband was actually much more reluctant to do this stuff than his predecessors - a good thing IMO but the usual suspects made it part of their "he is weak" narrative.

[tinybgoat]

I can't put the image up because it's too large, but this is very interesting and explains why Champion resigned. I was very disappointed to read she'd gone over.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm7n3LeXEAExlp3.jpg:large" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It doesn't really, tbh. Her selection was indeed quite controversial but she is by all accounts now very popular locally.

And as events after the by-election demonstrated, the party in Rotherham needed sorting out. Miliband was actually much more reluctant to do this stuff than his predecessors - a good thing IMO but the usual suspects made it part of their "he is weak" narrative.

Everything in Rotherham needs sorting out!

[fedup59]

We're back on it. Corbyn was elected through the democratic procedures established and agreed in the Labour party.

Chilcot's report on the Iraq process was made public this week. The Tory party is having an internal election that will choose the next prime minister(since obviously only gordon Brown wasn't acceptable as a prime minister without a uk election). Overt racism is becoming normalised in the same way that hunger, food banks and extreme poverty have been normalised, via the media and compliant political forces.

The PLP in its wisdom appears to be focussed on triangulating 2020 and beyond.

I never realised when I chose my nom de guerre nearly four years ago just how fedup I would get.

[ohsocynical]

Another eye opening read.

How Angela Eagle got to be MP for Wallasey

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ohsocynical]

I can't put the image up because it's too large, but this is very interesting and explains why Champion resigned. I was very disappointed to read she'd gone over.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm7n3LeXEAExlp3.jpg:large" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It doesn't really, tbh. Her selection was indeed quite controversial but she is by all accounts now very popular locally.

And as events after the by-election demonstrated, the party in Rotherham needed sorting out. Miliband was actually much more reluctant to do this stuff than his predecessors - a good thing IMO but the usual suspects made it part of their "he is weak" narrative.

Even so, I bet there were 'favours' being called in. Very disappointed in her. Obviously thought being one of the herd was more important than the brief she had for protecting abused children.

[ohsocynical]

How Angela Eagle got to be MP for Wallasey
An extract.

Under the rules of the Labour Party, if more than 50 per cent of those who vote in a parliamentary selection return blank ballot papers the selection must start from scratch with new nominations. Contrary to Party rules, no independent scrutineer was allowed into the Wallasey count held at the regional office in Warrington. When pressed, Eileen Murfin [Labour Party regional organiser] admitted that the officials had not bothered to count the blank votes, again in contravention of the rules. But sources leaked the total to the media, which reported that 163 blank papers had been returned by local members in protest at the exclusion of Lol Duffy. Only fifty-seven votes had been cast for the “winning” candidate, Angela Eagle. Under the Party constitution the selection was null and void; but Party officials glossed over this detail. To add insult to injury, the NEC not only dismissed the complaints of Party members but threatened to mount yet another “investigation” of the constituency after the general election.

So we shouldn't be surprised at what's happening now, and can expect a lot more anti-democratic behaviour from the PLP if we persist in supporting Corbyn and try to hold local MPs to account? Nice!

[Willow904]

Silly, I disappeared off here after Brexit! It means a lot.

The referendum has thrown everything up in the air. I've been a Labour supporter since the 80s and it has always been roughly in alignment with my own priorities, but now? On other things I disagree significantly with the Libdems, but on the response to the referendum I am far more in agreement with Farron than Corbyn. Both the left and right factions are getting it wrong from my own point of view ( I'm not saying they won't attract support, just not from me). There are plenty of people in Labour I feel could still represent my views, but they are silenced by this left/right factional fight, both sides of which are just as bad as each other as far as I'm concerned. I see no way forward.

[fedup59]

competition

What works of literature/ music/ films would you use to define our current political situation (or elements thereof)?

I offer

PLP leadership challenge - waiting for Godot

As a starter

[Tubby Isaacs]

That is not Corbyn's fault though is it.......that is the fault of a man you seem to think is 'Prime Minister' class. Possibly because he sounds posh, speaks with a nice accent and is a oily liar.

It needs fighting, like Tim Farron says he will.

It goes without saying Cameron is most culpable. But Corbyn wanted a referendum too. (As did the Lib Dems but they at least won their stripes back on this issue in the Coalition)

Tubby I keep asking you how it can be stopped and you never give an answer......one idea you gave was that we leave and then rejoin....

Farron does this because his party is at a point where there is little risk

Stopped first up by not starting it. Then opposing when shit hits fan.

[tinyclanger2]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-ca ... ?r=US&IR=T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The ascent of digital democracy around the world has some shared features. One characteristic is that access to greater information has, rather counterintuitively, contributed to a "post-fact" information environment.

Exactly what I feared from the start.
Coupled with anonymous message boards ... er ... normalizing the kinds of scary posts that drove us all away from the G.

Disinformation superhighway.

[ohsocynical]

Monday, 17 September 2007,

Veteran left-wing MP Bob Wareing is to quit Labour after being deselected from his seat by what he denounced as the "New Labour Mafia".

"Anti-Labour policies, such as privatisation, tuition and top-up fees for students and the stock transfer of council houses (with the threat that no repairs would be carried out if they remained under council control) forced tenants to concede to New Labour's wishes.

"Worst of all has been the disaster of the invasion of Iraq, an illegal war in defiance of the United Nations. I was proud to march, with nearly two million others, against that policy."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 999733.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RogerOThornhill]

Question as I'm in a conversation right now about it...

How likely is a General Election soon given that it is not as easy as it used to be to call one given the Fixed Term Parliament Act?

[tinyclanger2]

competition

What works of literature/ music/ films would you use to define our current political situation (or elements thereof)?

I offer

PLP leadership challenge - waiting for Godot

As a starter

not answering your question (there's a job for me in politics yet) but it did remind me of a joke someone told me yesterday.

There's a dyslexic, agnostic insomniac - stayed up all night wondering if there was a dog.

(Am here 'til Wednesday.)

[Willow904]

[youtube]OUZCz6Z3pfc[/youtube]

The Primitives - Sick of It.

[ohsocynical]

Question as I'm in a conversation right now about it...

How likely is a General Election soon given that it is not as easy as it used to be to call one given the Fixed Term Parliament Act?

Far too risky to chance it, I'd say. You have all the unhappy Leave voters, the equally unhappy Remain voters. And a mob of Corbynistas.

[howsillyofme1]

Tubby

The first option has gone unfortunately....

All the 'Lead' measures are indicating the second will happen but the problem with that is it is the 'Lag' ones such as unemployment, repossessions that matter and it may be many months or even years before we see an impact on those

Leave voters, from my experience, are in a bit of denial

[tinyclanger2]

Having moaned about the SDP (letting in Thatcher etc etc) I do think that that Labour party will have to split; that we HAVE to have PR; and that coalitions of the left will have to work/campaign nationally and internationally on particular issues. Globalization can't be stopped so it has to be dealt with instead.

[RogerOThornhill]

Some of these are pretty funny...

https://twitter.com/LeadsomJokes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

Roger one view here:-


http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/06/ ... -soon.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[55DegreesNorth]

Evening folks,
The eldest son, having graduated, went on the ferry from North Shields a fortnight ago with his feckless, aimless and equally dirty mates, to have an interrailing trip. Amsterdam for a few days (no idea what the attraction was there, as they know nothing about art or flowers), then to Bordeaux, for Euro quarter final, then Barcelona for some sun and clubbing. They came back on Friday, because they didn't want to miss the Durham Miners Gala.

That's right, the Durham Miners Gala. These are lads who are not miners, whose parents are achingly middle class (that's how I was described on CiF), are not trade unionists, or even in a trade union. They went because Jeremy Corbyn is speaking, and he is clearly appealing to something that affects the young people in England. I know there is a strong 'He's unelectable, get rid' feeling among some folk, but that's not what this selection of yoof says.

[Tubby Isaacs]

If we were to lose a corbyn led election and lost,it would be down entirely to this stupid so called coup.

As Willow said, the complete mess being made of by far the most important issue by Corbyn is a big problem for lots of us Labour voters.

Given Corbyn didn't turn up for debates in the referendum, he might not turn up for them in the election, I suppose. But if he does, we won't be impressed to see a Labour leader telling Tim Farron to "respect the will of the people" and criticising Theresa May.for delaying.

Do we have any idea of what Angela Eagle's
stance will be on dealing with brexit vote,
with regard to "will of the people" and when to leave?
I'd possibly be swayed by a Labour Leader standing against leaving, but from conversations I've had at work, think most people (pro brexit & pro remain) won't.

a

Good question. I don't know what Eagle's position is. I hope it would be to take stock and let the Tories get out of their hole.

[PorFavor]

competition

What works of literature/ music/ films would you use to define our current political situation (or elements thereof)?

I offer

PLP leadership challenge - waiting for Godot

As a starter

not answering your question (there's a job for me in politics yet) but it did remind me of a joke someone told me yesterday.

There's a dyslexic, agnostic insomniac - stayed up all night wondering if there was a dog.

(Am here 'til Wednesday.)

And they say a week is a long time in politics . . . .

[tinyclanger2]

As Willow said, the complete mess being made of by far the most important issue by Corbyn is a big problem for lots of us Labour voters.

Given Corbyn didn't turn up for debates in the referendum, he might not turn up for them in the election, I suppose. But if he does, we won't be impressed to see a Labour leader telling Tim Farron to "respect the will of the people" and criticising Theresa May.for delaying.

Do we have any idea of what Angela Eagle's
stance will be on dealing with brexit vote,
with regard to "will of the people" and when to leave?
I'd possibly be swayed by a Labour Leader standing against leaving, but from conversations I've had at work, think most people (pro brexit & pro remain) won't.

a

Good question. I don't know what Eagle's position is. I hope it would be to take stock and let the Tories get out of their hole.

I believe it's "holding"

(Like I say, here 'til Wednesday)

[PorFavor]

Do we have any idea of what Angela Eagle's
stance will be on dealing with brexit vote,
with regard to "will of the people" and when to leave?
I'd possibly be swayed by a Labour Leader standing against leaving, but from conversations I've had at work, think most people (pro brexit & pro remain) won't.

a

Good question. I don't know what Eagle's position is. I hope it would be to take stock and let the Tories get out of their hole.

I believe it's "holding"

(Like I say, here 'til Wednesday)

Anyway - what's happening on Wednesday? I trust that you'll still be here and that you're just (very uncharacteristically) indulging in a bit of levity.

[HindleA]

Primal Scream

[RogerOThornhill]

Roger one view here:-


http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/06/ ... -soon.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks - I've passed it on.

The point about "there's no money left" is a good one - only a year since the last GE.

[tinyclanger2]

Ah - just travelling and thus less access for a bit. As ever, I'll be back. Had been going to say "I'm here all week" but realised it wasn't accurate and didn't want to contribute to the post-fact information environment.