On the other hand why did no-one campaigning or voting for Leave ask what was the plan?
“They were wrapped up in their London bubble. No idea the rest of the country exists.”
Getting a bit tired of "bubble" and the notion that London is the same as Westminster or indeed the Southeast. Leave voters living in regions that got net gain from the EU but blame the EU for UK govnt policies (including interpretation/implementation of EU policies) are living in their own self-determined "bubble".
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:27 am
by HindleA
Morning tinyclanger and a special hello to fellow empathy deficient less stake in the future sufferers.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 6:37 am
by HindleA
I think people should take full responsibility of their own vote,regardless of view.
Doesn't come across as particularly concerned with appearance,indeed criticised as not being.I have no idea,if you want to get rid of someone you outline criticism,imaginary or not.I could spend half the day outlining the multitudinal fabrications/elaborations that Kinnock made now taken as gospel about the people I worked with to get rid of them with not much regard to the level of innocents that happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time,a decimation that took years to recover from,he thought it was for the best overrall.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 7:14 am
by HindleA
Carly Simon with Mick Jagger backing in my head,I blame SH.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 7:54 am
by tinyclanger2
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nt-retreat?
I have seldom known such an atmosphere of fear and apprehension in postwar Britain. The Chilcot report concludes that the intelligence behind the invasion of Iraq was faulty and there was no plan for the aftermath. In this case there was certainly no plan; but there was also no intelligence. In the film The Dark Knight, the Michael Caine character says: “Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
This has been my point really. We strongly suspect this is a disaster; to make it happen is irresponsible.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:16 am
by yahyah
@roger
Are we the TrotsRabbleDogs
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:29 am
by frog222
Moien .
So Kinnock got a standing ovation at the PLP for his calling for 'Anyone But Corbyn' .
I always thought he was vain too.
Winning all those GE's must have gone to his head .
Has anyone heard from those courageous rebel leaders Hilary Benn and Heidi Alexander ?
Leadsom attacks 'gutter journalism' in row over motherhood quotes
Tory leadership candidate says she is disgusted by Times report headlined: ‘Being a mother gives me edge on May’
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:38 am
by yahyah
Bora da. A very wet one.
I've been trying to find the bible quote about 'The lord your god commands you to use new fangled machines to tell young ladies what you'd like to do to them'. I'm sure Crabb can quote it if asked.
As for Leadsom...as a woman who is childless after two ectopic pregnancies, one that nearly killed me through blood loss, she can go **** **** *** and then **** her *** with a *(($$ +.
There are lots of reasons I would not make a good PM, not having children is not one of them.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:42 am
by RogerOThornhill
yahyah wrote:@roger
Are we the TrotsRabbleDogs
Locked in our own little echo chamber...
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:42 am
by yahyah
Humphreys just asked a woman he's interviewing whether she had children !
Why should women have to justify their choices, their bodies, the fertility of their partners, or their own fertility ?
At the very least Leadsom should be asked how much she is prepared to pump into NHS fertility treatment if she thinks being a mother is so vital.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:46 am
by yahyah
RogerOThornhill wrote:
yahyah wrote:@roger
Are we the TrotsRabbleDogs
Locked in our own little echo chamber...
That's rich after the last few weeks, so many views, so many differing opinions.
I'm more of an OldLabourPussycat myself.
No denim dungarees and Stop the War badges, I'm linen, Georg Jensen jewellery and lipstick.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:47 am
by ephemerid
Just popped in to say thank you for the personal messages.
Have a nice day.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:51 am
by TobyLatimer
She might have been referring to the time she spent as a member of Frank Zappa's band, and as such developed a deep understanding of sub culture and the distrust that the public has of the extremes in politics.
She wants to stop maternity pay for small businesses I believe.
We couldn't have children,definately "expected" to be sad about it but weren't in the least.We loved children,played a part in the upbringing of many to varying degrees in both personal and occupational wise terms,the best of both Worlds.It is a truly loathsome suggestion in general and evil in context,amplified by the crocodile tears and pretence of "innocence".IMHO.
I'm not sure that Kinnock's animus towards Corbyn helps the situation we are in.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:08 am
by yahyah
Ephie@ Nice to see you. Hope it isn't as wet further east, torrential here.
I may PM you next week, a medical matter.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:09 am
by utopiandreams
TobyLatimer wrote:She might have been referring to the time she spent as a member of Frank Zappa's band...
So, Toby, not just a mother but a Mother of Invention.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:16 am
by howsillyofme1
yahyah wrote:I'm not sure that Kinnock's animus towards Corbyn helps the situation we are in.
I have always been fond of Kinnock...he was a gallant loser that us Labour supporters are drawn to!
However, does he not see that he is part of the problem we have now, especially on the EU?
He was an EU Commissioner, his wife was a long-time MEP and his son worked in the EU before being elected MP in South Wales
This type of dynasty does nothing to help the arguments that we live in place with equality and opportunity for all. Also, we saw the ridiculous situation where South Wales voted for Leave when in receipt of lots of EU development grants
How could the Kinnock family, with their long-standing roots in the area have not been able to persuade the voters there of the benefits of EU membership?
Perhaps some members of the Labour establishment start asking themselves why Corbyn has such support in the wider membership, why large area of Labour seats voted Leave....with people who did not vote in 2015 coming out to vote for Out
As a final point, Kinnock moved his position considerably throughout his career...becoming more moderate when he was leader. I can remember him being called hard-left as well.
In the end this speech was typical Kinnock...lots of passion, lots of emotion but lacking in things that can appeal to the head rather than the heart and actual robust factual critique
For the left, the immediate opportunity lies in an election. There is no certainty the incoming Tory leader will call one, but it’s hard to negotiate without a mandate. Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election.
This was the self-destructive myopia of a political generation not trained for conflict and adversity. Faced with the most significant political catastrophe of their lifetime, and the chance to assume the mantle of leading the nation, Labour MPs chose to fight each other.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:36 am
by tinyclanger2
yahyah wrote:Bora da. .
Apologies for the oversight. It was very early.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:37 am
by yahyah
It's only because I've been making bara brith and my few words of Welsh are available to my brain.
For the left, the immediate opportunity lies in an election. There is no certainty the incoming Tory leader will call one, but it’s hard to negotiate without a mandate. Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election.
This was the self-destructive myopia of a political generation not trained for conflict and adversity. Faced with the most significant political catastrophe of their lifetime, and the chance to assume the mantle of leading the nation, Labour MPs chose to fight each other.
I do (largely) like Paul Mason.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:45 am
by yahyah
So over four million signatures isn't sufficient reason to have a debate in the House about a second referendum.
It was a nice hope while it lasted.
For the left, the immediate opportunity lies in an election. There is no certainty the incoming Tory leader will call one, but it’s hard to negotiate without a mandate. Fearing that a left-led Labour Party could actually win the election, its Blairite right wing launched an immediate coup against Corbyn, to try to prevent him from leading Labour into the election.
This was the self-destructive myopia of a political generation not trained for conflict and adversity. Faced with the most significant political catastrophe of their lifetime, and the chance to assume the mantle of leading the nation, Labour MPs chose to fight each other.
I do (largely) like Paul Mason.
Good dancer as well.
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Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:50 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
yahyah wrote:So over four million signatures isn't sufficient reason to have a debate in the House about a second referendum.
It was a nice hope while it lasted.
Sadly the argument "we've just had one of those" was always going to win the day.
I don't think the petition was a waste of time though.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:57 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
I suppose it will be nice to be certain that our Prime Minister has never inserted their penis into a pig's head.
#SmallMercies.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:57 am
by AnatolyKasparov
I distinctly recall certain people deploying the "Yvette Cooper has kids, Liz Kendall doesn't" line as a reason to vote for the former as Labour leader last year
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 9:59 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I distinctly recall certain people deploying the "Yvette Cooper has kids, Liz Kendall doesn't" line as a reason to vote for the former as Labour leader last year
I thought it was great that Ed was now available to stay at home with the kids
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:01 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Seeing as nobody else is doing it, can we recall all May's gaffes.
Now, the cat one....
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:02 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Home Secretary Theresa May has been criticised for claiming that an illegal immigrant avoided deportation because of his pet cat.
She told the Conservative conference the ruling illustrated the problem with human rights laws, but England's top judges said she had got it wrong.
Her Cabinet colleague Ken Clarke said he had been "surprised" by the claim and could not believe it was true.
And human rights campaigners said Mrs May should get "her facts straight".
'Needs to go'
Mrs May made the remark during a speech in which she repeated her belief that the Human Rights Act, which incorporates the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law, "needs to go".
She also outlined how she planned to rewrite immigration rules to prevent "misinterpretation" of Article 8 of the convention - the right to family life.
She said the meaning of Article 8 had been "perverted" and used to prevent the removal of foreign national prisoners and illegal immigrants - more than 100 of whom successfully used it last year to avoid deportation.
The cat surprised me
Ken Clarke, Justice Secretary
As it happened: Tuesday at conference
She pledged to clear up any "misconception" by judges about what it meant.
"We all know the stories about the Human Rights Act... about the illegal immigrant who cannot be deported because, and I am not making this up, he had a pet cat."
But a spokesman for the Judicial Office at the Royal Courts of Justice, which issues statements on behalf of senior judges, said the pet had "had nothing to do with" the judgement allowing the man to stay.
Mrs May told the BBC her speech had been checked before it went out and that the case was "just one example" of where she believed the law was being misconstrued.
Home Secretary Theresa May has been criticised for claiming that an illegal immigrant avoided deportation because of his pet cat.
She told the Conservative conference the ruling illustrated the problem with human rights laws, but England's top judges said she had got it wrong.
Her Cabinet colleague Ken Clarke said he had been "surprised" by the claim and could not believe it was true.
And human rights campaigners said Mrs May should get "her facts straight".
'Needs to go'
Mrs May made the remark during a speech in which she repeated her belief that the Human Rights Act, which incorporates the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law, "needs to go".
She also outlined how she planned to rewrite immigration rules to prevent "misinterpretation" of Article 8 of the convention - the right to family life.
She said the meaning of Article 8 had been "perverted" and used to prevent the removal of foreign national prisoners and illegal immigrants - more than 100 of whom successfully used it last year to avoid deportation.
The cat surprised me
Ken Clarke, Justice Secretary
As it happened: Tuesday at conference
She pledged to clear up any "misconception" by judges about what it meant.
"We all know the stories about the Human Rights Act... about the illegal immigrant who cannot be deported because, and I am not making this up, he had a pet cat."
But a spokesman for the Judicial Office at the Royal Courts of Justice, which issues statements on behalf of senior judges, said the pet had "had nothing to do with" the judgement allowing the man to stay.
Mrs May told the BBC her speech had been checked before it went out and that the case was "just one example" of where she believed the law was being misconstrued.
They are both truly appalling....one is a bit more loathsome as the other but they have both demonstrated by their action and words
Talking about words, has anyone heard from May at all......seen loads about Leadsom (most bad) but May hasn't really been visible - pretty much like her referendum campaign (but for her to be an invisible, very reluctant Remain who can't wait to get us out of EU is no problem with her being 'electable' or 'Prime Minister' material)
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:22 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Theresa May will come under pressure on Monday to disclose whether any terror suspects are believed to have entered the country when border controls were secretly relaxed this summer.
The home secretary will attempt to defuse the row by telling MPs that she is to set up an inquiry into the UK Border Agency. Union leaders blame cuts and say the relaxation was ordered by ministers.
Hundreds of thousands of people are thought to have entered Britain without being checked against the Home Office index of suspected terrorists and illegal immigrants. The head of the border force, Brodie Clark, has been suspended and an inquiry has been set up under John Vine, chief inspector of the agency.
Conservative MPs will demand assurances that the border is secure, while Labour claims that the minister has presided over a mess at the border force. Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said on Sunday that urgent steps were needed to establish whether the public was at risk.
Theresa May: Britain faces 'tough times' but can enjoy a 'better, brighter future' outside the EU
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:26 am
by tinyclanger2
Paul Mason emoticon
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:32 am
by tinyclanger2
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-minister" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ian McEwan
And yet we are told, even by the defeated Tory remainer faction, that “the people have spoken”. Perhaps this is what the party wanted all along – all of it. We hardly know. The minority of us who read newspapers know less than a tenth of what’s happening. But we can be sure of the contempt each Tory caucus holds for the others, with some contempt to spare for us bystanders.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:43 am
by tinyclanger2
someone posted a piece from Martin Rowson the other day (written not drawn) - can anyone remember what it was/provide the link (apologies, I thought I'd harvested it).
Britain's shock Brexit vote last month has stunned financial markets, with the pound bearing the brunt of the early violent reaction, tumbling to a 31-year low against the dollar.
“Genuinely it is a big issue for us to face into next year,” John Lewis managing director Andy Street told reporters at a media dinner.
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:51 am
by HindleA
tinyclanger2 wrote:someone posted a piece from Martin Rowson the other day (written not drawn) - can anyone remember what it was/provide the link (apologies, I thought I'd harvested it).
Lord Lisvane said that if the Brexit package proved to be inadequate or unacceptable, the decision could even be decided ultimately by the European Court of Justice. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/b ... edition=uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:52 am
by HindleA
Go back for link.You are too quick for me!
Re: Sat 9 and Sun 10 July 2016
Posted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:54 am
by tinyclanger2
HindleA wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:someone posted a piece from Martin Rowson the other day (written not drawn) - can anyone remember what it was/provide the link (apologies, I thought I'd harvested it).
