Thursday 14th July 2016

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 2:51 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:TE is fundamentally correct IMHO

I have these occasional break outs in giving an opinion.
That is your opinion HindleA and I accept it but profoundly disagree as it is undemocratic...fortunately this NEC will not be in place much longer

I have seen nothing that TE posts that I agree with at the moment. Just rants

TE has become another monomaniac, to whom nothing matters but the defenestration of Corbyn. He reminds me of Amenadiel, at the end of the 'Children and Monsters' arc in Lucifer: There can be no joy for me in the world while you still live.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 2:54 pm

minch wrote:Is there anything in the Labour rule book about how long you have to be a member before you can vote? If there is (and it is 6 months) then the problem is not making this clear (including by AE), if there is no rule about waiting 6 months then the NEC have made a mistake.
Does anyone know the rule book?

Don't think it is a mistake!

Nothing specific but the NEC seems to be making it all up as they go along at the moment so who knows

Get rid of this lot and have an NEC that more represents the party....are they going to change the rules on their own election too?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 2:54 pm

The new Labour leadership voting rules are a clunky mess, but when placed alongside Corbyn automatically on the ballot, it seems everyone got something.

Nick Thomas-Symonds defended the cuts surprisingly well on Daily Politics earlier. Labour don't really have the resources to ensure all of the huge number of new joiners genuinely agree with Labour's ideals and philosophy in time for the leadership election. This was a big issue last year. Also the first two months of Labour membership are always provisional, in order for this check to be carried out, during which time new members can't vote in local meetings etc, so the freeze for the leadership contest is at least in keeping with long-standing rules for other votes. Six months does seems a long time, though. I can't see the registered supporter thing having much of a future, either. Labour need to tidy this up for the next election and stick to it, if they want to be taken seriously.

I still feel, however, a requirement for any one wishing to lead the labour party should be the ability to secure at least a minimum support among MPs. Hopefully, it will be made clearer, whichever way, so we don't end up in this strange situation again.

Re the new cabinet. Do we have a minister for DWP yet?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 2:57 pm

I think we can agree that Labour needs a cut-off rule, and not an ad hoc decision made by a committee. May be hard to draft in these fevered times.

The £3/£25 'supporters' thing should also be ditched.

Labour is a victim of the collapse of unionisation. When union membership was higher, and less concentrated in the public sector, the unions acted as a stabilising force, generally considered to support the right/establishment of the party. Now with the likes of Sewortka it is the opposite. As a percentage, how valuable to Labour's finances are the unions nowadays?

Can we also agree that the current position is not workable? You can't have a leader without support in the PLP (and Corbyn has none)? When the Tories last had a leader their Parliamentary party didn't want (IDS) he went. Going forward the rules on that need to changed (but that needs to be done dispassionately)

I suspect we can also all agree that Labour will lose any General Election, but that the reason why it loses will be disputed. Many on here will blame the PLP. I'll blame Corbyn and those who put him there.

Grayling at transport. The moron will probably ditch the Heathrow expansion.

May playing it cannily. Lovely soft centerist rhetoric, a hard rightward shift. Not that it matters as she knows the Tories are completely invulnerable now.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 2:58 pm

Willow904 wrote:The new Labour leadership voting rules are a clunky mess, but when placed alongside Corbyn automatically on the ballot, it seems everyone got something.

Nick Thomas-Symonds defended the cuts surprisingly well on Daily Politics earlier. Labour don't really have the resources to ensure all of the huge number of new joiners genuinely agree with Labour's ideals and philosophy in time for the leadership election. This was a big issue last year. Also the first two months of Labour membership are always provisional, in order for this check to be carried out, during which time new members can't vote in local meetings etc, so the freeze for the leadership contest is at least in keeping with long-standing rules for other votes. Six months does seems a long time, though. I can't see the registered supporter thing having much of a future, either. Labour need to tidy this up for the next election and stick to it, if they want to be taken seriously.

I still feel, however, a requirement for any one wishing to lead the labour party should be the ability to secure at least a minimum support among MPs. Hopefully, it will be made clearer, whichever way, so we don't end up in this strange situation again.

Re the new cabinet. Do we have a minister for DWP yet?

Damian Green.

Greetings all btw.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 2:58 pm

Aaron Bastani, a very vocal Corbynista, has been outed as the same person as Aaron Peters. Peters wrote an article for a Conservative Students' newspaper praising Iain Duncan Smith.

Bit strange, that

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He fully approves of the idea that Labour's principles are more important than getting elected. And he's a fan of IDS. Can the two things be connected?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 2:59 pm

Willow

You points are fine, although I am not sure a quid pro quo is a good thing to do. Corbyn had to be on the ballot so they changed direction by doing something pretty disreputable

Your point on member vetting is a fair one but we all know that is an excuse though

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:01 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:The new Labour leadership voting rules are a clunky mess, but when placed alongside Corbyn automatically on the ballot, it seems everyone got something.

Nick Thomas-Symonds defended the cuts surprisingly well on Daily Politics earlier. Labour don't really have the resources to ensure all of the huge number of new joiners genuinely agree with Labour's ideals and philosophy in time for the leadership election. This was a big issue last year. Also the first two months of Labour membership are always provisional, in order for this check to be carried out, during which time new members can't vote in local meetings etc, so the freeze for the leadership contest is at least in keeping with long-standing rules for other votes. Six months does seems a long time, though. I can't see the registered supporter thing having much of a future, either. Labour need to tidy this up for the next election and stick to it, if they want to be taken seriously.

I still feel, however, a requirement for any one wishing to lead the labour party should be the ability to secure at least a minimum support among MPs. Hopefully, it will be made clearer, whichever way, so we don't end up in this strange situation again.

Re the new cabinet. Do we have a minister for DWP yet?
Damian Green.

Greetings all btw.

Damian Green? Thanks. I'll have to look him up.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:01 pm

DWP Damian Green Willow !
Snap !

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:01 pm

According to Sunny Hundal, a colleague told him that TDFG (the disgraced former minister) Liam Fox was seen quaffing champagne on the balcony of a Parliament bar with his very best friend Adam Werrity. He has no shame.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:04 pm

frog222 wrote:DWP Damian Green Ephe

Thanks, frog.

Cripes.

Post by **adam** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:04 pm

Leadsome as Environment Secretary.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:04 pm

Damian Green to DWP

Not a complete monster.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:25 pm

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I do believe someone described this on Twitter yesterday as:

"the worst cabinet since MFI went bust."

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:28 pm

Here's the original:

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with a discussion thread below that sums up how I feel about it. Stuff the so-called shrewd politics up your backside, they're a set of baffling, appalling, hideous appointments that could only be made by arrogant, complacent bastards unfortunately sure enough in their position to recognise there's a very slim likelihood of domestic political nemesis coming their way.

Another vile little playpen for Martin Rowson to savage, then.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:30 pm

Damian Green when he was a television presenter on C4's Business Daily [youtube]ozS2GHj6IH0[/youtube]

: ScreenShot01487.jpg (60.55 KiB) Viewed 7191 times

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:32 pm

According to Wiki

During his time at Oxford, Green broke a wrist after a group of fellow students ambushed him and threw him into the River Cherwell. Reportedly the group included fellow Dominic Grieve, who was later to serve alongside Green as a Cabinet Minister

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:32 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:38 pm

I believe !

Whether his libertarian, free-market and neo-conservative politics are in line with what are called “Christian values” is for others to judge. But he and Cameron, and Catholic MPs such as Burns, Green and the Catholic Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Iain Duncan Smith, are in a small minority in the Tory party, let alone in the increasingly secular Westminster world

.

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/features/2/5 ... y-faithful" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:44 pm

Priti Patel - International Development.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:55 pm

PorFavor wrote:Priti Patel - International Development.

Good work PF - seven minutes ahead of The Graun!

Although, to be fair, they were probably spending the time checking as to how the appointment might be bad news for Corbyn.

extankie · Post by **extankie** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 3:57 pm

ephemerid wrote:
frog222 wrote:DWP Damian Green Ephe
Thanks, frog.

Cripes.

Oh dear, don`t like the look of "cripes" Ephe, has TM lied to us already?, is it time to go back to despair, or is there ANY hope for us at all? (ie: IDS is 10 on scale of bastardy,, where does this git fit?)
Maybe time to start tory hunting.......

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 4:03 pm

I think I may be one of the respondents to that comres poll although the bloke said he was from populus. Are they connected? Anyroadup, I wasn't one of those who gave the idiot answers.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 4:12 pm

Priti Patel (another fool) has argued for the abolition of her own department

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(Link about a different thing).

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 4:47 pm

Thank God. My internet connection has been down. The engineer has just been.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 4:49 pm

adam wrote:Leadsome as Environment Secretary.

Another appointment in the series of "You got us into this so you can sort it out" given that she has farming subsidies within her department - and which, apparently, she thought should be got rid of...

That one will be interesting to watch.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 4:50 pm

Glad to see it's nothing more serious that a blinking flipping internet connection ohso

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:09 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Glad to see it's nothing more serious that a blinking flipping internet connection ohso

TWO DAYS !!!! I've been like a junkie watching the clock waiting for my fix. I had to do housework to keep myself busy.

They've upped the strength of the signal, and my equipment was too old to convert it.

I've got a HUB now

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:19 pm

extankie wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
frog222 wrote:DWP Damian Green Ephe
Thanks, frog.

Cripes.
Oh dear, don`t like the look of "cripes" Ephe, has TM lied to us already?, is it time to go back to despair, or is there ANY hope for us at all? (ie: IDS is 10 on scale of bastardy,, where does this git fit?)
Maybe time to start tory hunting.......

Afternoon, tank.

I don't think he's anything like the hideous Nosferatu Perugia Smiff; mainly because he's not a man who has ideas.
I don't know what he thinks.
I don't know IF he thinks....

I suspect he'll be told what to do by Her Nibs - she likes him.
He was her minister for police for a bit.
He likes the idea that they work "with the private sector".

He was arrested in 2008 on suspicion of misconduct in public office; the CPS didn't pursue the case, but a civil servant allegedly involved in the affair got the sack.

His personal email address was found among others on the leaked list from Ashley Madison (the adultery thing), and a registration on the site linked to a HOC computer.....but it wasn't him. No, no, no. He's a happily married man, he is.

He's a bit "meh". I have no idea what he'll be like at DWP. I am not expecting anything good. He's a tory, after all.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:21 pm

Ohso - a new hub, eh?

You were gone so long I was worried about the old hub.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:22 pm

Apologies if this has already been posted. I haven't had a chance to read all the posts from the last two days.

Even the mainstream media feel compelled to drop hints that Owen Smith is not what he is being promoted as. The Guardian’s words yesterday were unintentionally revealing;

the former shadow work and pensions secretary plans to pitch himself as the soft-left option
Note “to pitch himself”. For PR professional Smith, political stance is nothing to do with personal belief, it is to do with brand positioning. On Channel 4 News last night, an incredulous Michael Crick pointed out that the “soft left” Smith had previously given interviews supporting PFI and privatisation in the health service. He also strongly supported Blair’s city academies.

As chief lobbyist for Pfizer, Smith actively pushed for privatisation of NHS services. This is not something Pfizer did very openly, and you have to search the evidence carefully. Footnotes often tell you what is really happening, as in this press release in which Owen Smith says of a Pfizer funded “focus group” study:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... wen-smith/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:25 pm

ephemerid wrote:Ohso - a new hub, eh?

You were gone so long I was worried about the old hub.

I've got Wi-Fi and had had the old box for nine years.

'Twas like me. Past its sell by.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:27 pm

All I've been able to think about is the two day slot for forking out £25 for a vote.

That'll be thousands of Lab Right supporters buying power then.

My local party are very unhappy to say the least. They were due a meeting to discuss who they were going to support this evening.
Even the right wing members are having a job to explain this one away.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:29 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Thank God. My internet connection has been down. The engineer has just been.

About time! I've been worried. Haven't you got a carrier pigeon?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:32 pm

David Cameron has reportedly moved into a £17m, seven-bedroom townhouse in west London after leaving Downing Street.
The former prime minister, his wife, Samantha Cameron, and three children have moved into the three-storey home owned
by PR mogul Sir Alan Parker on one of the most expensive streets in London, according to the London Evening Standard.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -townhouse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Cameron family are housed. Good. All people should be.

The Camerons’ move came as pictures emerged of the former prime minister enjoying coffee and pastries with George Osborne,
who was sacked as chancellor on Wednesday night, at a cafe in north Kensington. Accompanied by their wives and children at
Lisboa Patisserie, Cameron and Osborne sat outside the front of the cafe with their security detail watching nearby.

(my emphasis)

I'm more fortunate than the former PM and his Chancellor. The day I require a security team is the day I'm a slave.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:35 pm

Wonderful to read you, Ohso!

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:36 pm

As an aside, has anyone been watching Le Tour today? If not, highlights on ITV4 tonight. Well worth watching, absolutely fascinating..

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:38 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:I was a member in February, it was up for renewal around May, I was a bit late renewing, so I've absolutely no idea if I'm eligible to vote or not.

Your file has been duly marked 'Entryist - do not permit this undesirable a vote'

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:39 pm

citizenJA wrote:
David Cameron has reportedly moved into a £17m, seven-bedroom townhouse in west London after leaving Downing Street.
The former prime minister, his wife, Samantha Cameron, and three children have moved into the three-storey home owned
by PR mogul Sir Alan Parker on one of the most expensive streets in London, according to the London Evening Standard.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -townhouse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Cameron family are housed. Good. All people should be.
The Camerons’ move came as pictures emerged of the former prime minister enjoying coffee and pastries with George Osborne,
who was sacked as chancellor on Wednesday night, at a cafe in north Kensington. Accompanied by their wives and children at
Lisboa Patisserie, Cameron and Osborne sat outside the front of the cafe with their security detail watching nearby.
(my emphasis)

I'm more fortunate than the former PM and his Chancellor. The day I require a security team is the day I'm a slave.

How many kitchens? That's the most important detail, isn't it?

minch · Post by **minch** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:42 pm

Everyone who joined but is not allowed to vote should cancel their membership and demand a rebate as they were falsely sold. If the rebate does not come then take them to the small claims court. How many would have to do this before they give in and see sense?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:43 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
David Cameron has reportedly moved into a £17m, seven-bedroom townhouse in west London after leaving Downing Street.
The former prime minister, his wife, Samantha Cameron, and three children have moved into the three-storey home owned
by PR mogul Sir Alan Parker on one of the most expensive streets in London, according to the London Evening Standard.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -townhouse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Cameron family are housed. Good. All people should be.
The Camerons’ move came as pictures emerged of the former prime minister enjoying coffee and pastries with George Osborne,
who was sacked as chancellor on Wednesday night, at a cafe in north Kensington. Accompanied by their wives and children at
Lisboa Patisserie, Cameron and Osborne sat outside the front of the cafe with their security detail watching nearby.
(my emphasis)

I'm more fortunate than the former PM and his Chancellor. The day I require a security team is the day I'm a slave.
How many kitchens? That's the most important detail, isn't it?

Indeed and make sure to be photographed in the most humble of them

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:46 pm

An observation on this new cabinet. Not only one of the most right wing in history but also one of the most anti-human rights, anti-LBGQT rights, and small statist. And THE most anti-science one in political history. It's a fricking Tea Party cabinet. The Tory Party has gone insane. Absolutely insane.

Ah well, let's hope it is as destructive to the Tories reputation as their US counterparts has been to the Republicans, but preferably before we get to the stage where its as destructive to the country and its people first.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:49 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:I was a member in February, it was up for renewal around May, I was a bit late renewing, so I've absolutely no idea if I'm eligible to vote or not.
Your file has been duly marked 'Entryist - do not permit this undesirable a vote'
Thought so.

I'm a bit surprised they let me back in last time after I'd left to campaign for the NHA Party in the Eastleigh byelection.

'Communist' just added to the file.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:51 pm

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:52 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:

I don't think he's told anyone this before. But he was a journalist. For the Times.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:52 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:I was a member in February, it was up for renewal around May, I was a bit late renewing, so I've absolutely no idea if I'm eligible to vote or not.
Your file has been duly marked 'Entryist - do not permit this undesirable a vote'
Thought so.

I'm a bit surprised they let me back in last time after I'd left to campaign for the NHA Party in the Eastleigh byelection.

Seriously, if you were a member at the start of this year you *should* be eligible - slightly late renewals (mine is also due as it happens) don't come into it.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:52 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:An observation on this new cabinet. Not only one of the most right wing in history but also one of the most anti-human rights, anti-LBGQT rights, and small statist. And THE most anti-science one in political history. It's a fricking Tea Party cabinet. The Tory Party has gone insane. Absolutely insane.

Ah well, let's hope it is as destructive to the Tories reputation as their US counterparts has been to the Republicans, but preferably before we get to the stage where its as destructive to the country and its people first.

I agree. The only standout exception is Greening at Education. I hope she survives there, insofar as the Tory government survives at all of course.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 5:56 pm

http://labourlist.org/2016/07/unite-mem ... wn-corbyn/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Members of Britain’s biggest trade union have voted strongly in support of mandatory re-selection for Labour MPs as well as reaffirming their backing for Jeremy Corbyn.

Delegates at Unite’s policy conference carried a motion which called for party members to have the right to “select candidates that reflect their views”.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 6:02 pm

Sky News headline

'May keeps promise by putting more women in the cabinet' - yes 1 more! And a couple of them are sharing a brain cell

I am sure when Corbyn made a 50:50 split he got criticised for not putting enough in....interesting how the media puts their 'spin' on it all!

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Thu 14 Jul, 2016 6:02 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 37056.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Boris interview - completely farcical