Snag is they are incapable.RogerOThornhill wrote:Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"PorFavor wrote:Has Theresa May appointed ministers (particularly with regard to the EU) who she believes can do the job (out of concern for the UK she professes to hold so dear) or is she trying to cover her own back? I know which of the two options I lean towards.
Edited - typo
Thursday 14th July 2016
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
What is 'entryism'?
To me that can only apply to people who are not Labour supporters who join to try to cause trouble......Tories, SWP (all 20 of them) etc....
If it is just someone who has an ambition to change the political direction of a party through legitimate means then that is not the same.
If that definition is to be applied then Tony Blair was an entryist! And god knows what Shaun Woodward would have been classed as
If people who are more left wing than the current party join legitimately and vote/campaign to change the direction of the party then that is perfectly legitimate
For example, if Temulkar (sorry for taking your name in vain), remained a committed Green and joined Labour just to vote for Corbyn in order to prolong the split in Labour then I think he could be called an 'Entryist'.
If he left the Greens and joined Labour to vote for Corbyn as that is the direction he wants the party to go in then that is fine from my side...
I left Labour in 2005ish because of the direction labour was taking. I rejoined in 2010 specifically to ensure Miliband Major did not get in (I voted for his bro) and was pleased in what he was trying to do in general.....pity the traitorous bastards in the SC and PLP were briefing against him (hmmmm Corbyn's fault?). Was I an Entryist?
To me that can only apply to people who are not Labour supporters who join to try to cause trouble......Tories, SWP (all 20 of them) etc....
If it is just someone who has an ambition to change the political direction of a party through legitimate means then that is not the same.
If that definition is to be applied then Tony Blair was an entryist! And god knows what Shaun Woodward would have been classed as
If people who are more left wing than the current party join legitimately and vote/campaign to change the direction of the party then that is perfectly legitimate
For example, if Temulkar (sorry for taking your name in vain), remained a committed Green and joined Labour just to vote for Corbyn in order to prolong the split in Labour then I think he could be called an 'Entryist'.
If he left the Greens and joined Labour to vote for Corbyn as that is the direction he wants the party to go in then that is fine from my side...
I left Labour in 2005ish because of the direction labour was taking. I rejoined in 2010 specifically to ensure Miliband Major did not get in (I voted for his bro) and was pleased in what he was trying to do in general.....pity the traitorous bastards in the SC and PLP were briefing against him (hmmmm Corbyn's fault?). Was I an Entryist?
Last edited by howsillyofme1 on Thu 14 Jul, 2016 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11147
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
No, that's fine - if it all goes a but wrong then May (Remainer) can say "See, told you it wouldn't work" and blame the Brexiters.ohsocynical wrote:Snag is they are incapable.RogerOThornhill wrote:Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"PorFavor wrote:Has Theresa May appointed ministers (particularly with regard to the EU) who she believes can do the job (out of concern for the UK she professes to hold so dear) or is she trying to cover her own back? I know which of the two options I lean towards.
Edited - typo
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
They'll not deal effectively with anything. How long is their failure going to be allowed to continue before a change though?RogerOThornhill wrote:Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"PorFavor wrote:Has Theresa May appointed ministers (particularly with regard to the EU) who she believes can do the job (out of concern for the UK she professes to hold so dear) or is she trying to cover her own back? I know which of the two options I lean towards.
Edited - typo
It's going to be regular people paying the price of Tory government ineptitude, not Theresa May or any other Tory party MP.
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Apologies, Ohso, I see you've got there before me.ohsocynical wrote:Snag is they are incapable.RogerOThornhill wrote:Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"PorFavor wrote:Has Theresa May appointed ministers (particularly with regard to the EU) who she believes can do the job (out of concern for the UK she professes to hold so dear) or is she trying to cover her own back? I know which of the two options I lean towards.
Edited - typo
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
RogerOThornhill wrote:No, that's fine - if it all goes a but wrong then May (Remainer) can say "See, told you it wouldn't work" and blame the Brexiters.ohsocynical wrote:Snag is they are incapable.RogerOThornhill wrote: Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"
I am not convinced that May was a real Remainer...I think, she like Johnson, was playing the political game from the other side
She will throw it back at them and let them do the hard miles but I think she will take us out
People kept going on about Corbyn security voting Leave....but why do they never ask that question of May? Or ask Johnson if he voted 'Remain'.........I don't think Cameron was a convinced Remainer at all either...he just expected to be on the winning side
Last edited by howsillyofme1 on Thu 14 Jul, 2016 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- danesclose
- Whip
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:06 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Hi,JustMom wrote:55DegreesNorth wrote:I've just been asked to vote for the NEC members, and the only one I recognised was Eddy Izzard. Anyone know anything about the rest?
I have an email with 6 of the leftwingers,momentum sent it.
I can send it you if you let me have your email.
I've just sent you a PM. Would appreciate if you could forward the email to me
Thanks
Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Agnes Poirier @AgnesCPoirier 8m8 minutes ago
You might as well know that #BorisJohnson was booed today at French ambassador's #BastilleDay reception in London.His 'charm' left them cold
You might as well know that #BorisJohnson was booed today at French ambassador's #BastilleDay reception in London.His 'charm' left them cold
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Well, yes - I appreciate that. And I can understand, from a purely human point of view, Theresa May's thinking that way. But does she believe they're the ones best placed to do the job? If not, then she's not acting in the best interests of the country. If it were just the "Out" voters who were going to be affected by any cock-ups then I'd (selfishly) say carry on - but we're all going to have to live with the outcome.RogerOThornhill wrote:Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"PorFavor wrote:Has Theresa May appointed ministers (particularly with regard to the EU) who she believes can do the job (out of concern for the UK she professes to hold so dear) or is she trying to cover her own back? I know which of the two options I lean towards.
Edited - typo
- danesclose
- Whip
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:06 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
A Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church. "Get out!" shouts the priest. "Why?" replies the Higgs "You can't have mass without me".Temulkar wrote:A neutron walks into a bar and orders a drink. He asks how much? 'For you?' says the barman. 'No charge!'
I'll get my coat
Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
danesclose wrote:A Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church. "Get out!" shouts the priest. "Why?" replies the Higgs "You can't have mass without me".Temulkar wrote:A neutron walks into a bar and orders a drink. He asks how much? 'For you?' says the barman. 'No charge!'
I'll get my coat
Good idea
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
danesclose wrote:Hi,JustMom wrote:55DegreesNorth wrote:I've just been asked to vote for the NEC members, and the only one I recognised was Eddy Izzard. Anyone know anything about the rest?
I have an email with 6 of the leftwingers,momentum sent it.
I can send it you if you let me have your email.
I've just sent you a PM. Would appreciate if you could forward the email to me
Thanks
Sent it Dane
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ntributionThousands of Post Office workers forced to take pension benefits cut
About half of 7,000-strong workforce to shift from final salary pension scheme to defined contribution scheme (Guardian)
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Oh I was going to do exactly thatbefore being declared a trot, but if corbyn wins this election - and he may v well not with all the gerrymandering - I will rejoin labour.howsillyofme1 wrote:What is 'entryism'?
To me that can only apply to people who are not Labour supporters who join to try to cause trouble......Tories, SWP (all 20 of them) etc....
If it is just someone who has an ambition to change the political direction of a party through legitimate means then that is not the same.
If that definition is to be applied then Tony Blair was an entryist! And god knows what Shaun Woodward would have been classed as
If people who are more left wing than the current party join legitimately and vote/campaign to change the direction of the party then that is perfectly legitimate
For example, if Temulkar (sorry for taking your name in vain), remained a committed Green and joined Labour just to vote for Corbyn in order to prolong the split in Labour then I think he could be called an 'Entryist'.
If he left the Greens and joined Labour to vote for Corbyn as that is the direction he wants the party to go in then that is fine from my side...
I left Labour in 2005ish because of the direction labour was taking. I rejoined in 2010 specifically to ensure Miliband Major did not get in (I voted for his bro) and was pleased in what he was trying to do in general.....pity the traitorous bastards in the SC and PLP were briefing against him (hmmmm Corbyn's fault?). Was I an Entryist?
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
PorFavor wrote:Well, yes - I appreciate that. And I can understand, from a purely human point of view, Theresa May's thinking that way. But does she believe they're the ones best placed to do the job? If not, then she's not acting in the best interests of the country. If it were just the "Out" voters who were going to be affected by any cock-ups then I'd (selfishly) say carry on - but we're all going to have to live with the outcome.RogerOThornhill wrote:Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"PorFavor wrote:Has Theresa May appointed ministers (particularly with regard to the EU) who she believes can do the job (out of concern for the UK she professes to hold so dear) or is she trying to cover her own back? I know which of the two options I lean towards.
Edited - typo
I doubt there's anyone capable enough. She probably picked the best of a bad bunch.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
- mbc1955
- Lord Chancellor
- Posts: 718
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:47 pm
- Location: Stockport, Great Manchester in body, the Lake District at heart
- Contact:
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
On the other hand, they could have played fair and square. Pity? No chance.ohsocynical wrote:Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham 49m49 minutes ago
Pity the poor NEC. Hero (Corbyn on ballot) and Zero (resisting entryism) in a single meeting. Tough, tough gig.
The truth ferret speaks!
- TechnicalEphemera
- Speaker of the House
- Posts: 2967
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
However it happens change will only take place when a party (or group of parties) other than the Tory Party wins a general election and decides to exclude them from power.citizenJA wrote:They'll not deal effectively with anything. How long is their failure going to be allowed to continue before a change though?RogerOThornhill wrote:Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"PorFavor wrote:Has Theresa May appointed ministers (particularly with regard to the EU) who she believes can do the job (out of concern for the UK she professes to hold so dear) or is she trying to cover her own back? I know which of the two options I lean towards.
Edited - typo
It's going to be regular people paying the price of Tory government ineptitude, not Theresa May or any other Tory party MP.
Until that happens they have total freedom to be as inept as they want.
Release the Guardvarks.
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11147
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
I'm constantly amazed at how little people know about education but pretend that they know an awful lot. Like this utter chump.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 10937
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
It was better than cuddly animals.....howsillyofme1 wrote:danesclose wrote:A Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church. "Get out!" shouts the priest. "Why?" replies the Higgs "You can't have mass without me".Temulkar wrote:A neutron walks into a bar and orders a drink. He asks how much? 'For you?' says the barman. 'No charge!'
I'll get my coat
Good idea
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
(my bold)TechnicalEphemera wrote:However it happens change will only take place when a party (or group of parties) other than the Tory Party wins a general election and decides to exclude them from power.citizenJA wrote:They'll not deal effectively with anything. How long is their failure going to be allowed to continue before a change though?RogerOThornhill wrote: Boris, Fox, Davis, and Leadsom are in jobs directly affected by Brexit so it's a case of "You caused this, now deal with it"
It's going to be regular people paying the price of Tory government ineptitude, not Theresa May or any other Tory party MP.
Until that happens they have total freedom to be as inept as they want.
Tory government have the freedom to be inept until 2020 - that's apparently the earliest they can get the boot. Is there any other way Tories are made to go? Regardless of the status of other political parties, the legal fact remains they've got four more years. Unless, of course, their GE win in 2015 is declared unlawful or something.
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
What is the likelihood that if one of the Dynamic Duo wins against Corbyn due to all this gerrymandering that there will be another challenge next year...this time from the left?
There will be a whole lot of pissed off members who were not allowed to vote this time, and I would guess that someone like McDonnell or another could push the 51 votes close, especially if the local parties are in open revolt....and there could well be a different NEC next time
The only other option is if Smith wins (Eagle I think has been used and has done badly) and crawls to Corbyn and the left to keep them onside. Will be interesting to see what tone Smith uses in the campaign....
There will be a whole lot of pissed off members who were not allowed to vote this time, and I would guess that someone like McDonnell or another could push the 51 votes close, especially if the local parties are in open revolt....and there could well be a different NEC next time
The only other option is if Smith wins (Eagle I think has been used and has done badly) and crawls to Corbyn and the left to keep them onside. Will be interesting to see what tone Smith uses in the campaign....
- JonnyT1234
- Home Secretary
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Not, "I'll get my boat"?danesclose wrote:A Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church. "Get out!" shouts the priest. "Why?" replies the Higgs "You can't have mass without me".Temulkar wrote:A neutron walks into a bar and orders a drink. He asks how much? 'For you?' says the barman. 'No charge!'
I'll get my coat
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
citizenJA wrote:(my bold)TechnicalEphemera wrote:However it happens change will only take place when a party (or group of parties) other than the Tory Party wins a general election and decides to exclude them from power.citizenJA wrote: They'll not deal effectively with anything. How long is their failure going to be allowed to continue before a change though?
It's going to be regular people paying the price of Tory government ineptitude, not Theresa May or any other Tory party MP.
Until that happens they have total freedom to be as inept as they want.
Tory government have the freedom to be inept until 2020 - that's apparently the earliest they can get the boot. Is there any other way Tories are made to go? Regardless of the status of other political parties, the legal fact remains they've got four more years. Unless, of course, their GE win in 2015 is declared unlawful or something.
People are creating an alternate reality to the one I see......it is virtually impossible to force a Government out under the current law, and it is really not worth the pain for a Government to call a GE. People are acting here that if there was another leader May would be calling an election now and be crying herself to sleep....absolute rot and nonsense
The fact the Tories have slim majority is useful for forcing them to drop some of their legislation....and Labour have been very successful in doing that.... but it will not force a change in Government.....Major was in worst straits back in the day but it didn't lead to a change of Government
The GE was fought in 2015...and was lost....of course, Corbyn and the lefts fault as they were in control of party policy and Corbyn' face was never off the tv criticising the leader, never mind all that poison he was giving to the Sun!
There will be no election until 2020 and the sooner people realise that the better.....
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
JonnyT1234 wrote:Not, "I'll get my boat"?danesclose wrote:A Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church. "Get out!" shouts the priest. "Why?" replies the Higgs "You can't have mass without me".Temulkar wrote:A neutron walks into a bar and orders a drink. He asks how much? 'For you?' says the barman. 'No charge!'
I'll get my coat
Does the boat have a bos'un?
- TechnicalEphemera
- Speaker of the House
- Posts: 2967
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
I think it was fair. The current Labour membership is made up of loads of people who voted Corbyn last time, plus the £3 brigade who subsequently converted to full members after he won. These people are committed to the party and many of them campaign for it. This electorate is more biased to the left than in 2015 because some center left Labour voters have left for various reasons.mbc1955 wrote:On the other hand, they could have played fair and square. Pity? No chance.ohsocynical wrote:Jo Maugham QC @JolyonMaugham 49m49 minutes ago
Pity the poor NEC. Hero (Corbyn on ballot) and Zero (resisting entryism) in a single meeting. Tough, tough gig.
75% of the PLP voted no confidence in Jeremy, polling (yes caveats apply) tells us a large majority of the electorate, a majority of Labour voters, and a significant majority of union members, would like him replaced.
If he cannot gain a majority from even his enhanced 2015 support base in the party why should he carry on? What is the point of creating an ever more extreme (by which I mean completely out of step with the voting population) constituency of electors?
Somebody asked earlier what defines an entryist. I would suggest somebody who doesn't care about electing a Labour Government in the 20xx (where xx is between 16 and 20) is an entryist.
Release the Guardvarks.
- JonnyT1234
- Home Secretary
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Hearing the disturbance, Mrs Doyle pops her head in and asks, "nice cup of tea?"danesclose wrote:A Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church. "Get out!" shouts the priest. "Why?" replies the Higgs "You can't have mass without me".Temulkar wrote:A neutron walks into a bar and orders a drink. He asks how much? 'For you?' says the barman. 'No charge!'
"No thank you" everyone mumbles.
"Oh, gluon, gluon, gluon" she says.
----
Sorry, I'm feeling quarky today.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
So there are a number of entryists in the PLP then because there are a number of prominent ones who do not want to win an election with the current leader - never mind if he can, because by my reckoning with the boundary changes, no Scottish seats and the media hostile there is no indication any leader (particularly someone like Eagle) would win at all
Is there any polling that shows Labour ahead with either Eagle or Smith as leader?
Is there any polling that shows Labour ahead with either Eagle or Smith as leader?
- JonnyT1234
- Home Secretary
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
I've just lepton the bad joke bandwagon.JonnyT1234 wrote:Hearing the disturbance, Mrs Doyle pops her head in and asks, "nice cup of tea?"danesclose wrote:A Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church. "Get out!" shouts the priest. "Why?" replies the Higgs "You can't have mass without me".Temulkar wrote:A neutron walks into a bar and orders a drink. He asks how much? 'For you?' says the barman. 'No charge!'
"No thank you" everyone mumbles.
"Oh, gluon, gluon, gluon" she says.
----
Sorry, I'm feeling quarky today.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 4211
- Joined: Mon 16 Feb, 2015 1:22 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
howsillyofme1 wrote:What is the likelihood that if one of the Dynamic Duo wins against Corbyn due to all this gerrymandering that there will be another challenge next year...this time from the left?
Zero.
The PLP will never again let Corbyn or one of his tiny group get on the ballot. Ever They'd need 50 nominations. With MPs and MEPs, they'd get 20.
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Thu 14 Jul, 2016 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Chief Whip
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Tue 28 Jul, 2015 9:05 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
All this palarva over Brexit has pushed the police investigations into the over spending at the last general election away from the agenda. Don't forget that the Tories technically only have a 12 seat majority, a few by-elections in marginals could soon reduce that figure. Also the natural by-elections caused by deaths or retirements etc. I'm not sure what the protocol is for triggering a vote of no confidence in the government, as happened with Callaghan, but 12 seats or less looks rather flaky considering that the Brexit could all go belly up in the next couple of years.
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Horrible news. I rely upon public transportation. The people relying on this bus service are up a tree.Bus company staff told firm has shut down – via text
GHA Coaches notifies employees of redundancy by mobile phone, after going into administration, leaving many in
Welsh rural areas without transport links
More than 300 workers at a bus company in north Wales have been made redundant – by text message.
Keith Ottley, a 55 year old former GHA employee from Wrexham, told the Daily Post in North Wales: “It’s terrible.
I’ve been here 25 years and for someone to call you last night from outside the depot to say the company has gone
bust, it’s not nice.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... n-via-text" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Car or van availability [2011 Census]
No cars or vans in household (percent)
Wales______22.9%
UK________26.0%
http://www.constituencyexplorer.org.uk/ ... ailability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- TechnicalEphemera
- Speaker of the House
- Posts: 2967
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
It is trivially easy to hold an election prior to 2020. The process is as follows.howsillyofme1 wrote:citizenJA wrote:(my bold)TechnicalEphemera wrote: However it happens change will only take place when a party (or group of parties) other than the Tory Party wins a general election and decides to exclude them from power.
Until that happens they have total freedom to be as inept as they want.
Tory government have the freedom to be inept until 2020 - that's apparently the earliest they can get the boot. Is there any other way Tories are made to go? Regardless of the status of other political parties, the legal fact remains they've got four more years. Unless, of course, their GE win in 2015 is declared unlawful or something.
People are creating an alternate reality to the one I see......it is virtually impossible to force a Government out under the current law, and it is really not worth the pain for a Government to call a GE. People are acting here that if there was another leader May would be calling an election now and be crying herself to sleep....absolute rot and nonsense
The fact the Tories have slim majority is useful for forcing them to drop some of their legislation....and Labour have been very successful in doing that.... but it will not force a change in Government.....Major was in worst straits back in the day but it didn't lead to a change of Government
The GE was fought in 2015...and was lost....of course, Corbyn and the lefts fault as they were in control of party policy and Corbyn' face was never off the tv criticising the leader, never mind all that poison he was giving to the Sun!
There will be no election until 2020 and the sooner people realise that the better.....
The government proposes a motion of no confidence in itself and loses.
An alternative government may now be formed. If it does not pass a vote of confidence in the house (which it wont) within 14 days a general election is automatically triggered. Prior to 2015 this step was problematic as an alt government was possible.
Major didn't trigger a change of government because he believed he would lose the subsequent election. May surely knows she will win and will only suffer like Major if something changes to alter that.
A November election, must be under consideration.
Release the Guardvarks.
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
If Corbyn does lose I look forward to two things
A new NEC proposing mandatory reelection
The boundary changes leading to deselection of a number of the PLP - Wolves goes down to two seats so I can see Reynolds and McFadden at least getting the boot - especially McFadden who was parachuted in
It will be difficult to see Labour winning if the boundary changes are made but at least we may see the PLP post the next election changing........
A new NEC proposing mandatory reelection
The boundary changes leading to deselection of a number of the PLP - Wolves goes down to two seats so I can see Reynolds and McFadden at least getting the boot - especially McFadden who was parachuted in
It will be difficult to see Labour winning if the boundary changes are made but at least we may see the PLP post the next election changing........
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
(my bold)howsillyofme1 wrote:People are creating an alternate reality to the one I see......it is virtually impossible to force a Government out under the current law, and it is really not worth the pain for a Government to call a GE. People are acting here that if there was another leader May would be calling an election now and be crying herself to sleep....absolute rot and nonsensecitizenJA wrote:(my bold)TechnicalEphemera wrote: However it happens change will only take place when a party (or group of parties) other than the Tory Party wins a general election and decides to exclude them from power.
Until that happens they have total freedom to be as inept as they want.
Tory government have the freedom to be inept until 2020 - that's apparently the earliest they can get the boot. Is there any other way Tories are made to go? Regardless of the status of other political parties, the legal fact remains they've got four more years. Unless, of course, their GE win in 2015 is declared unlawful or something.
The fact the Tories have slim majority is useful for forcing them to drop some of their legislation....and Labour have been very successful in doing that.... but it will not force a change in Government.....Major was in worst straits back in the day but it didn't lead to a change of Government
The GE was fought in 2015...and was lost....of course, Corbyn and the lefts fault as they were in control of party policy and Corbyn' face was never off the tv criticising the leader, never mind all that poison he was giving to the Sun!
There will be no election until 2020 and the sooner people realise that the better.....
That's what I wrote in my post - the next GE is scheduled in 2020.
- TechnicalEphemera
- Speaker of the House
- Posts: 2967
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
I agree with all of the above. However even if 12 byelections were triggered now May would probably win them handsomely (given where they are).TobyLatimer wrote:All this palarva over Brexit has pushed the police investigations into the over spending at the last general election away from the agenda. Don't forget that the Tories technically only have a 12 seat majority, a few by-elections in marginals could soon reduce that figure. Also the natural by-elections caused by deaths or retirements etc. I'm not sure what the protocol is for triggering a vote of no confidence in the government, as happened with Callaghan, but 12 seats or less looks rather flaky considering that the Brexit could all go belly up in the next couple of years.
I think she will go early to try and boost her majority as you are right Brexit is going to get ugly.
Release the Guardvarks.
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
A government is going to have purposely lose a vote of confidence in themselves just as all the Brexit negotiations are going on and before the boundary changes are put in place?
As I said there seems to be some alternate realities being invented here but with a tone of smug arrogance......
As I said there seems to be some alternate realities being invented here but with a tone of smug arrogance......
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Note that not one media outlet has questioned May's mandate to be PM - even though she only won the leadership by default.....
- TechnicalEphemera
- Speaker of the House
- Posts: 2967
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
If the NEC proposes mandatory reselection the party will instantly split and the 170 MPs will become the official opposition, if Corbyn is still in charge. This will get very messy for them in 20xx but they have a better chance with their constituents than the activists. Corbyn will therefore take steps to prevent that happening.howsillyofme1 wrote:If Corbyn does lose I look forward to two things
A new NEC proposing mandatory reelection
The boundary changes leading to deselection of a number of the PLP - Wolves goes down to two seats so I can see Reynolds and McFadden at least getting the boot - especially McFadden who was parachuted in
It will be difficult to see Labour winning if the boundary changes are made but at least we may see the PLP post the next election changing........
If he isn't in charge the process will be stopped. The headbangers of Unite aside it won't happen.
Release the Guardvarks.
- JonnyT1234
- Home Secretary
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
I told you, they'll be praising the smooth way in which the Tory's elected a new leader for the country and saying how great it is for everyone.howsillyofme1 wrote:Note that not one media outlet has questioned May's mandate to be PM - even though she only won the leadership by default.....
The press in this country make me want to puke.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
- mbc1955
- Lord Chancellor
- Posts: 718
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:47 pm
- Location: Stockport, Great Manchester in body, the Lake District at heart
- Contact:
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
So 'fairness' is a situational thing. What is likely to favour your side is fair, no matter how blatantly underhand it is. I still feel no grounds for pity towards the NEC, but I could be brought to feel pity towards those whose twisted ethics lead them to condone whatever irregular manuoevre creates power for their side.
No, I couldn't.
No, I couldn't.
The truth ferret speaks!
- TechnicalEphemera
- Speaker of the House
- Posts: 2967
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Dial down the abusehowsillyofme1 wrote:A government is going to have purposely lose a vote of confidence in themselves just as all the Brexit negotiations are going on and before the boundary changes are put in place?
As I said there seems to be some alternate realities being invented here but with a tone of smug arrogance......
Tell me why a government wouldn't lose a vote of confidence if it wanted to trigger an election. This would simply be seen as a technical device. Boris was proposing to do just that.
May has a mandate. We elect a political party not a PM and her government holds a majority in the house of commons. Nobody with any credibility questioned Brown's.
Release the Guardvarks.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
"Sorry old chap,there's no Coke left"
He prefers it to Pepsi according to my sources.
He prefers it to Pepsi according to my sources.
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11147
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Have we seen this? long but detailed. Might be worth bookmarking...
Everything you need to know about Theresa May’s Brexit nightmare in five minutes
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07 ... y-s-brexit
Everything you need to know about Theresa May’s Brexit nightmare in five minutes
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/07 ... y-s-brexit
Surely she just needs to TAKE BACK CONTROL?
Right, which most people think means ending freedom of movement. But there's a couple of reasons that doing that would be economically catastrophic. Firstly, EU migrants bring in billions of pounds a year in taxes. Curtailing their numbers in the UK would have a profound effect on our public finances. Secondly, freedom of movement is a requirement of the single market. And leaving the single market would be one of the most radical and economically risky acts this country has ever taken.
Last edited by RogerOThornhill on Thu 14 Jul, 2016 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 4211
- Joined: Mon 16 Feb, 2015 1:22 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
TechnicalEphemera wrote:If the NEC proposes mandatory reselection the party will instantly split and the 170 MPs will become the official opposition, if Corbyn is still in charge. This will get very messy for them in 20xx but they have a better chance with their constituents than the activists. Corbyn will therefore take steps to prevent that happening.howsillyofme1 wrote:If Corbyn does lose I look forward to two things
A new NEC proposing mandatory reelection
The boundary changes leading to deselection of a number of the PLP - Wolves goes down to two seats so I can see Reynolds and McFadden at least getting the boot - especially McFadden who was parachuted in
It will be difficult to see Labour winning if the boundary changes are made but at least we may see the PLP post the next election changing........
If he isn't in charge the process will be stopped. The headbangers of Unite aside it won't happen.
Given the boundary changes, there is surely no pressing need for mandatory reselection anyway (at least for this Parliament).
Tense race now. Can the PLP hold on longer than it takes for Cobryn's popularity with the members to (inevitably) decline? Next year is crucial now.
What larks!
(Unless you happen to be one of the millions who desperately need a Labour government of course.)
- JonnyT1234
- Home Secretary
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Have just arrived home to find my ballot for the local election at the end of the month has arrived. Decisions, decisions. Safe to say that the UKIP, Tory and Lib Dem candidates are all non-starters for me, but Labour or Green?
And so, what brilliant timing for the PLP to be demonstrating to me that, yet again, they are so far removed from being something worth supporting that I find myself about to put my cross against another party's name.
Sorry Mr Corbyn, this'll be used as another, 'he's unelectable' notch in the club they're beating you with, but it's them, not you. Always has been and looks like it always will be.
And so, what brilliant timing for the PLP to be demonstrating to me that, yet again, they are so far removed from being something worth supporting that I find myself about to put my cross against another party's name.
Sorry Mr Corbyn, this'll be used as another, 'he's unelectable' notch in the club they're beating you with, but it's them, not you. Always has been and looks like it always will be.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Obviously I don't know if Labour have the same or similar system to us, but in the Green party, once your membership comes up for renewal, there's a 3 month 'Grace' period. If you renew in that time, your membership is continuous.RobertSnozers wrote:What's the logic of setting a date of February as the cut-off point? It makes no sense. Surely you have to know there is going to be a leadership election before they stop eligibility? It excludes everyone who happened to join months before there was any sniff of a leadership election.
I was a member in February, it was up for renewal around May, I was a bit late renewing, so I've absolutely no idea if I'm eligible to vote or not.
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11147
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Chances of that happening given everything else going on?SpinningHugo wrote: Given the boundary changes
Not likely I'd say - esp. as it impacts as many Tories as it does Labour. Why would she risk having a fight with her own MPs?
Also, given that post-Brexit we're supposed to be taking more of our own decisions, and increase in population, where's the logic that says we need fewer (600 rather than 650) MPs?
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
- danesclose
- Whip
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:06 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
Theresa May (amongst others) did. Look what good that did herTechnicalEphemera wrote:Dial down the abusehowsillyofme1 wrote:A government is going to have purposely lose a vote of confidence in themselves just as all the Brexit negotiations are going on and before the boundary changes are put in place?
As I said there seems to be some alternate realities being invented here but with a tone of smug arrogance......
Tell me why a government wouldn't lose a vote of confidence if it wanted to trigger an election. This would simply be seen as a technical device. Boris was proposing to do just that.
May has a mandate. We elect a political party not a PM and her government holds a majority in the house of commons. Nobody with any credibility questioned Brown's.
Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
- TechnicalEphemera
- Speaker of the House
- Posts: 2967
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
That is generally how people interpret fairness. A good guide is that if both opposing sides are unhappy it is probably fair (or equally unfair). Both sides have some of what they want, the rules are clear and consistent.mbc1955 wrote:So 'fairness' is a situational thing. What is likely to favour your side is fair, no matter how blatantly underhand it is. I still feel no grounds for pity towards the NEC, but I could be brought to feel pity towards those whose twisted ethics lead them to condone whatever irregular manuoevre creates power for their side.
No, I couldn't.
Release the Guardvarks.
- JonnyT1234
- Home Secretary
- Posts: 1688
- Joined: Wed 22 Jun, 2016 12:07 pm
Re: Thursday 14th July 2016
May tears up manifesto the Tory Party was elected on. "She has a mandate. People elect parties not PMs"TechnicalEphemera wrote:Dial down the abuse
Tell me why a government wouldn't lose a vote of confidence if it wanted to trigger an election. This would simply be seen as a technical device. Boris was proposing to do just that.
May has a mandate. We elect a political party not a PM and her government holds a majority in the house of commons. Nobody with any credibility questioned Brown's.
Corbyn tears up manifesto the Labour Party lost an election with. "He doesn't have a mandate. MPs are elected by their constituents not the members of the party."
I despair at the illogic of it all.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again