Thursday 21st July 2016

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:08 pm

yahyah wrote:and for the avoidance of doubt, no I am not referring to anyone on FTN.
But if anyone is in the mood to take offence, please use me as a punchbag if it helps.

Aside from the bad taste elements contained therein, it was a really crap poem.

But I'll punch you on the nose anyway, if that's alright. 'Cos I'm like that . . .

Ready?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:10 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:(getting coat emoticon)
It's completely meaningless while sounding tremendously meaningful. You've invented the purest green of Blairhetoric.

a possible career move maybe?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:15 pm

Thanks for asking Rebecca.

Let's just say I've had a bit of an eye opener recently.
It crystallised when I cast my votes for the NEC.
A lot of the concerns that make me initially wary of voting for Corbyn last year, and which I over-rode my gut feeling on, have proved correct. Probably will resign my membership because I feel out of sympathy and kilter with what is going on, both factions are behaving badly.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:
yahyah wrote:and for the avoidance of doubt, no I am not referring to anyone on FTN.
But if anyone is in the mood to take offence, please use me as a punchbag if it helps.

Aside from the bad taste elements contained therein, it was a really crap poem.

But I'll punch you on the nose anyway, if that's alright. 'Cos I'm like that . . .

Ready?

Got my dukes up...

I'm glad you agree, it was poor wasn't it.
But political poetry, even when less...er..well just less whatever that was, is like political songs.
It has to be very, very good or it is just embarrassing.

Don't mention Billy Bragg, that'd be the end of it for me.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:18 pm

Incidentally, "alright" should really be rendered as "all right", I believe. But I've always spelled it "alright" and it's never been corrected nor has it been questioned all the time I've done so (even at school). So I'll carry on in my own sweet way. Alright?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:20 pm

@yahyah

Billy Bragg - I imagine you already know that we speak with one voice on that one! Dire stuff.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:22 pm

PorFavor wrote:Incidentally, "alright" should really be rendered as "all right", I believe. But I've always spelled it "alright" and it's never been corrected nor has it been questioned all the time I've done so (even at school). So I'll carry on in my own sweet way. Alright?

tsk

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:31 pm

yahyah wrote:Thanks for asking Rebecca.

Let's just say I've had a bit of an eye opener recently.
It crystallised when I cast my votes for the NEC.
A lot of the concerns that make me initially wary of voting for Corbyn last year, and which I over-rode my gut feeling on, have proved correct. Probably will resign my membership because I feel out of sympathy and kilter with what is going on, both factions are behaving badly.

Sorry to hear that.I cast my NEC votes today,nothing bad happened.
I haven't noticed anyone here giving you grief because you support Owen Smith,seems like quite a few ftners are.
Not me,but I would not badger you because we have different opinions,bound to happen in a two way fight.
How is your bp?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:40 pm

Sky NewsVerified account
‏@SkyNews
Jeremy Corbyn says Owen Smith is "very welcome" back in the shadow cabinet

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:42 pm

PorFavor wrote:@yahyah

Billy Bragg - I imagine you already know that we speak with one voice on that one! Dire stuff.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that. The 'Don't Try This At Home' album is delighful from start to finish.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:42 pm

I don't support Owen Smith.

I haven't decided who to vote for. I want to see whether Corbyn acknowledges the issues and shows some sign he will do some things differently.
My worry is a vote for him will be seen as carrying on exactly as it is, when things need to be operating more effectively.

I have concerns about Smith, but am sick of seeing him subject to what I didn't like Corbyn being subjected to. He is not a monster.
He would also likely bring a more professional touch to the leadership, not a bad thing imho.

I have generally agreed with you in the past, and about Ed M. It caused me concern when it seemed that some are edging toward dismissing Ed because he supports Smith.

The whole thing is so polarised. It's being painted as a good v evil thing.
The Blair haters will be slavering tonight, painting him as the devil incarnate, and Smith the same.

Thanks for asking about my blood pressure. I haven't taken it since the doc added more Ramipril in.
Will be back in two weeks for her to do another review, so will take it before then to show her some home readings. She thinks I'm out of stroke risk territory, and my cardiovascular risk factors are pretty good because of my generally healthy lifestyle. But the stress of this leadership nonsense, coming on so soon after the EU referendum pushes my buttons. Any uncertainty feels pretty intolerable.

Hope the dogs are enjoying the cooler weather, and your daughter's Christmas extravaganza isn't driving you potty.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:43 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Sky NewsVerified account
‏@SkyNews
Jeremy Corbyn says Owen Smith is "very welcome" back in the shadow cabinet

Definite proof Corbyn is a Blairite

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:44 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:Solvents not solutions!
Substrates not solvents!
Catalysts not substrates!
Reagents not catalysts!
Solutions not reagents!

You're just being picky now.
Pickly I think.

You knows your onions, dontcha?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:46 pm

Night all.
Will bring a peace offering of homemade bara brith full of spice and mixed fruit tomorrow.
Will even sing a bit of Billy Bragg if mbc keeps me to the tune.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:49 pm

Rebecca wrote:
yahyah wrote:Thanks for asking Rebecca.

Let's just say I've had a bit of an eye opener recently.
It crystallised when I cast my votes for the NEC.
A lot of the concerns that make me initially wary of voting for Corbyn last year, and which I over-rode my gut feeling on, have proved correct. Probably will resign my membership because I feel out of sympathy and kilter with what is going on, both factions are behaving badly.
Sorry to hear that.I cast my NEC votes today,nothing bad happened.
I haven't noticed anyone here giving you grief because you support Owen Smith,seems like quite a few ftners are.
Not me,but I would not badger you because we have different opinions,bound to happen in a two way fight.
How is your bp?

I haven't done mine yet. Apart from the obvious ones to avoid (so far as I'm concerned) it's more like casting my fate to the wind than casting my vote. Unlike yahyah, though, I shall hang on to my membership whatever happens but keep a watching brief. I expect that Jeremy Corbyn (assuming he wins the leadership contest) will, quite soon, say or do something almost unbelievably stupid, so bimbling off into the sunset now isn't the thing to do, I feel.

One of my favourite bands and one of my favourites of their songs says it better then I ever could -

(Obviously, you have to swap the genders around where appropriate.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNWh6uWAnSo

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:50 pm

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... -1-8027626" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“We have to understand the burning injustice that is felt by young people whose nursing bursary has just been abolished. They are watching their dreams go up in smoke and they turn on the TV to find a Labour politician telling them to thank their lucky stars that we have got migrants who can staff their National Health Service,”

Lisa Nandy.

am concerned that telling people how things work (admittedly we could do a much better job) is something to stop doing, in favour of pandering to (often dangerous) widespread myths.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:50 pm

yahyah wrote:Night all.
Will bring a peace offering of homemade bara brith full of spice and mixed fruit tomorrow.
Will even sing a bit of Billy Bragg if mbc keeps me to the tune.

Me? And you think Bragg's voice is flat? (which it is, of course)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:51 pm

Don't be fooled by Owen Smith, he'll give Jeremy Corbyn a tough fight
Corbyn's allies will portray Owen Smith as representing the ‘old politics’. But Corbyn is not as new as he was in last year’s leadership election and this is a different battle

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/owe ... 46541.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:51 pm

Show got his NEC ballot papers today. He's not sure he's going to bother voting.

As you all know, I left Labour because I couldn't be doing with the lack of unity all round - and as yayah says, it's getting more polarised by the day.

If Smith and Corbyn could only work together - but instead we have this nonsense, with both men nothing like the monsters their enemies would have us believe, and both men good in their own ways.

I am inclined to think that whoever wins, they've got an uphill struggle to unite the party. Which makes me admire Ed Miliband even more - he was the reason why I joined in the first place, and he accomplished a lot in terms of unity despite the constant sniping. I miss him.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:54 pm

yahyah wrote:I don't support Owen Smith.

I haven't decided who to vote for. I want to see whether Corbyn acknowledges the issues and shows some sign he will do some things differently.
My worry is a vote for him will be seen as carrying on exactly as it is, when things need to be operating more effectively.

I have concerns about Smith, but am sick of seeing him subject to what I didn't like Corbyn being subjected to. He is not a monster. He is not, in my opinion but others are entitled to theirs, a lying, snivelling sack of shit as described here the other day. That's exactly the kind of thing Corbyn is against.
He would also likely bring a more professional touch to the leadership, not a bad thing imho.

I have generally agreed with you in the past, and about Ed M. It caused me concern when it seemed that some are edging toward dismissing Ed because he supports Smith.

The whole thing is so polarised. It's being painted as a good v evil thing.
The Blair haters will be slavering tonight, painting him as the devil incarnate, and Smith the same.

Thanks for asking about my blood pressure. I haven't taken it since the doc added more Ramipril in.
Will be back in two weeks for her to do another review, so will take it before then to show her some home readings. She thinks I'm out of stroke risk territory, and my cardiovascular risk factors are pretty good because of my generally healthy lifestyle. But the stress of this leadership nonsense, coming on so soon after the EU referendum pushes my buttons. Any uncertainty feels pretty intolerable.

Hope the dogs are enjoying the cooler weather, and your daughter's Christmas extravaganza isn't driving you potty.

We watched Angelina Ballerina and the nutcracker today.Now That would do something to your blood pressure!
Dogs are fine,but I am going to continue the early walks,get so much done.I used to go out early with Charlie because I was working,but it took me 2 years to get used to not working when I gave up to look after Rosie.
To the extent of waking him up to go out in the pitch black,-20 degrees,when we lived in France.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:54 pm

@yahyah

Night night!

(You can bring Rose with the turned up nose, but don't bring Billy!)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 6:57 pm

Am on "holiday"
No Noilly Prat.
what sort of a holiday is that?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:02 pm

The Junior Doctors are still fighting Hunt.

We have great news!
Today we have had a good day in the High Court challenging Mr Hunt's position on imposition, the Judge has heard our initial proposals and granted us a full, expedited Judicial Review hearing expected in September. The judge remarked that this is an important case that has merit and needs to be heard in the public interest.

We have also today challenged the SOS's security for costs demands. As you know, yesterday we received a letter demanding £150,000 within 7 days.
Our legal team have challenged this in court and negotiated a better deal for us.
The judge listened to our requests and has ordered that the amount provided as security for costs will represent the total and final amount that Mr Hunt's legal team could seek from us if we were to lose our case.

We must provide £70,000 security for costs if we argue only our original public law grounds (£30,000 of which was raised in May)
We must provide £130,000 security for costs if we choose to argue the full case including the proposed new grounds (and we are well on our way to raising this amount!)
We will need to continue to raise funds to cover our legal fees as the case progresses.
NHS Employers presented the court with a bill that they are requesting we pay. The judge listened to thei position and decided that this would be addressed at the end of the full case hearing and judgment.

These costs must be produced and held in a secured account by the deadline of August 16th. If we have not raised the necessary funds on that date, the judge will take a decision as to whether or not we are allowed to proceed to the full hearing.
We will be meeting with our lawyers next week to take their advice and make our final decision about which grounds we want to proceed with.
Whichever option we choose to take, we are relieved and grateful to have reached a more reasonable financial agreement today.
We will make our decisions and rationale public as soon as possible, as agreed in court today.
Please continue to support us by sharing our funding link online and helping us get our message out to the public that Junior Doctors will not be silenced when we are raising legitimate concerns about the safety of our patients, our colleagues and the sustainability of the NHS.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:09 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Solvents not solutions!
Substrates not solvents!
Catalysts not substrates!
Reagents not catalysts!
Solutions not reagents!

I believe that's what is called spin, Jonny.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:10 pm

There's a poem,or more correctly a random linkeage of words hidden somewhere that somebody wrote a few weeks ago about the binary thing.It's hidden because the writer of said linkeage of words gets embarrassed by such attempts,he has been coaxed to allow me to mention its existence but not where.He will retire for a few days and put his head in a bucket of cold water because the weather is still.extremely hot and if he survives he promises to come back again.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:17 pm

PorFavor wrote:Incidentally, "alright" should really be rendered as "all right", I believe. But I've always spelled it "alright" and it's never been corrected nor has it been questioned all the time I've done so (even at school). So I'll carry on in my own sweet way. Alright?

A'ight.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:18 pm

Another story that got twisted.

It was being said Eagle was cancelling surgeries because she'd been advised by the police to do so for safety reasons. But now there is a letter from Merseyside Police. it appears the Police gave her advice about her surgeries at her request, but cancelling the surgeries was not a Police matter and would lie entirely with them.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:Incidentally, "alright" should really be rendered as "all right", I believe. But I've always spelled it "alright" and it's never been corrected nor has it been questioned all the time I've done so (even at school). So I'll carry on in my own sweet way. Alright?

I once had a rant on cif during which I asked whether the pedant, our Lord Chancellor, preferred 'All right'. He still is Lord Chancellor I trust.

Postscript: Oh he's not, is he?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:30 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:Solvents not solutions!
Substrates not solvents!
Catalysts not substrates!
Reagents not catalysts!
Solutions not reagents!
I believe that's what is called spin, Jonny.

More stirring involved with that lot, than spin.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:42 pm

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/m ... 053/21/07/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This to-do over Mark Thatcher. I used to go to my local Archive and research my family history. Official documents about a person were considered 'sensitive' which is usually 100 years. I know because my great gran was living on the parish in the late 1890's and I wasn't allowed to look at the Poor Law Guardian's entries until the hundred years was up, even though she died in 1928.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 7:49 pm

Neil Findlay MSP ‏@NeilFindlay_MSP 6h6 hours ago

The behaviour of some Labour MPs just now is appalling and very embarrassing - debate the issues and stop the personal attacks

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:08 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@yahyah

Billy Bragg - I imagine you already know that we speak with one voice on that one! Dire stuff.
What??

You'll be telling me you prefer Kirsty MacColl's version of New England next

Actually, I do. But then I loved pretty near everything Kirsty MacColl ever did.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:13 pm

: Cn4xLcVXYAAGd-o.jpg (83.48 KiB) Viewed 7396 times

And this is being misquoted a lot too.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:18 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@yahyah

Billy Bragg - I imagine you already know that we speak with one voice on that one! Dire stuff.
What??

You'll be telling me you prefer Kirsty MacColl's version of New England next
Actually, I do. But then I loved pretty near everything Kirsty MacColl ever did.

Don't come the cowboy with me . . . .

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:24 pm

PorFavor wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: What??

You'll be telling me you prefer Kirsty MacColl's version of New England next
Actually, I do. But then I loved pretty near everything Kirsty MacColl ever did.

Don't come the cowboy with me . . . .

Only on Christmas Eve, in the drunk tank...

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:39 pm

ephemerid wrote: It's a long read; but what comes out of it for me is that the Decision Makers aren't much good (whether it's DWP or HMRC)

The basic problem with them is what it's always been. I have many horror stories from the 80s and 90s that are nearly as bad as what's happening now, with the exception that back then the government wasn't actively seeking to disqualify as many claims as it possibly can and building a system to enable and encourage that.

Decision makers are recruited at executive officer grade, which has an entry requirement of a couple of A-levels (and not even that if they're internal promotions), then required to make what we know can be very complex legal decisions. Who are often inadequately trained with far too much of "this is what we always do with a case like this" rather than "what does the statute and case law say we should do in this case". So you get errors about even the most basic law which become "what everyone knows".

Some decision-makers are really good at their jobs. Others pretty hopeless to worse than useless and some even actively claimant-hostile like the benefits came out of their wages or something. It doesn't help that, like the late 80s, the BA is being hollowed out and subjected to a strategy of demoralisation which encourages staff, often the best staff, to leave.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:45 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Don't come the cowboy with me . . . .
Only on Christmas Eve, in the drunk tank...
In these shoes?

On an empty bench in Soho Square? Certainly.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:49 pm

Willow904 wrote:Child labour and underpaid college students, wasn't it? Them were the days, 'got me country back' innit.

A lot of seasonal agricultural work was once done by Gypsies and other travellers who moved from farm to farm and place to place as the need for the work to be done arose. The same families would turn up at the same farm year in, year out at the right time to be useful and they knew what they were doing.

The drive to get them off the road, combined with their eviction from traditional over-wintering sites in the late 1960s removed a lot of them from the agricultural workforce. And now it seems it's the turn of Eastern Europeans to face the bile of the media and the racists, classed as undesirables and driven away.

So I await with anticipation the UKIP pensioners and BF yobs turning out in their thousands to do the physically demanding, very peripatetic, seasonal and often surprisingly skilled work a succession of such undesirables have been stealing from Britons since time immemorial.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:51 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Tony Blair has endorsed his friend Owen Smith. Blair's former advisers John McTernan and Lance Price will be advising Smith's campaign

McTernan's the one who thinks the "grass roots" don't matter and should be ignored isn't he?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 8:58 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Bench fees not political and economic catastrophes!

I thought this had a touch of the John Cooper Clarkes.
But may it was more Vic Reeves.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 9:10 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 48761.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Everyone loves Theresa May. Because she’s new and fresh and untainted by the attitudes of the previous government, as she had nothing to do with it except for the minor role of Home Secretary which only involved popping in on a Tuesday to feed the cat, so it’s all different now because she loves the common person which we know must be true because she said so.

PS: Mark Steel

ChrisDean · Post by **ChrisDean** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 9:37 pm

Good evening, everyone.

As you know, I am a reader rather than a poster, however, you may be interested to know that my daughter once worked for a farm that was /is famous for asparagus.

She hated every minute of it, not least because she had to turn away people that she knew personally, who had walked miles in search of a job.

Jobs were available but only to easily exploitable Eastern Europeans who would be required to pay the bulk of their earnings back in accommodation fees.

She's now a self-employed cleaner and much happier.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 9:38 pm

yahyah wrote:Night all.
Will bring a peace offering of homemade bara brith full of spice and mixed fruit tomorrow.
Will even sing a bit of Billy Bragg if mbc keeps me to the tune.

I kept the faith and I kept voting
Not for the iron fist but for the helping hand
For theirs is a land with a wall around it
And mine is a faith in my fellow man
Theirs is a land of hope and glory
Mine is the green field and the factory floor
Theirs are the skies all dark with bombers
And mine is the peace we know
Between the wars

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 9:58 pm

Richard Burgon MP ‏@RichardBurgon 22h22 hours ago
Richard Burgon MP Retweeted Jacqueline McGuigan

No ifs and no buts - a Labour Government led by @jeremycorbyn will abolish Emoyment Tribunal Fees. #AccesstoJustice

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 10:02 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Don't come the cowboy with me . . . .
Only on Christmas Eve, in the drunk tank...

In these shoes?[/quote

He's a liar & I'm not sure about you

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 10:09 pm

I’ll see you baby when the clans rise again
Women and men united by the struggle
In this free world baby
Got to take it got to grab it
Got to get it up and shag it
In this free world
Going down

You’ve got to get into the water
Like a lamb goes to the slaughter
In this free world baby
Going down

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 10:13 pm

Off topic:

John Cooper Clarke on being a "cross between George Formby and Eddie Murphy"

My new catchphrase is: turned out nice again mother****er!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 10:14 pm

Neil Henderson ‏@hendopolis 1h1 hour ago
GUARDIAN: No free trade without open borders, Hollande tells May

That's going well then.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 10:23 pm

Owen Smith talks to Labour supporters

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Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 21 Jul, 2016 10:25 pm

Just brilliant from Laurie Penny

https://medium.com/welcome-to-the-screa ... .ecd5o21b6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;