Friday 22 July 2016

[ohsocynical]

I talked to the other half's mum about 20 mins ago.
Asked her if she wanted a cup of tea.
Papers haven't got hold of it yet though.

You forgot to alert the whips' office.

Edit: wasn't one of the main plotters/leakers and the guy who was orchestrating the resignations in the whips' office? Oh... Just checked and found this from a report by Sky News' Sophy Ridge:

I’m told the Labour MP coordinating and choreographing the resignations is @ConorMcGinn – significant as he’s in Jeremy Corbyn’s Whips Office. He’s ringing shadow cabinet members and ministers, organising the timings and co-ordinating the resignations to try to cause maximum impact. This is significant because he’s one of Jeremy Corbyn’s Whips – tasked with ensuring party discipline.

Anyone still want to take McGinn at his word?



Frankly, in the light of a betrayal by one of the people responsible for party discipline, I think Corbyn has been remarkably restrained.

You may recall ,some weeks ago,how distressed the Labour whips office was when somebody,poss even Corbyn himself,said that someone from the whips was leaking info to Cameron just before pmqs.
I am now making a wild guess as to who that person is.

Rumour has it it was Benn and Eagle...But I doubt we'll ever know for sure. If that's admitted to, then the coup being 'spur of the moment' as it were, is well and truly discounted

[Rebecca]

Hi Rebecca.

Thanks for your post last night. It sounds silly, but I didn't realised how stressed I felt until you asked if I was ok. Just recognising it has really helped to shift things.

Tbh,I was starting to worry.You sounded so unlike your normal self.
Sometimes I know I need to step away from politics for a couple of days,clear my head a bit.
My best friend is training to be a midwife.She was working on labour ward the day of the referendum,and said that some of the women were so angry with the result that their labour actually stopped!
Hope you feel better properly soon,maybe when it isn't so hot.

[yahyah]

Thanks Rebecca. We went out this morning for coffee, it was nice to get a bit dolled up,
and have a long country walk and picnic planned for tomorrow. Would be nice to have a dog to borrow for such occasions.

When we were at a National Trust property a couple of weeks ago a woman had a gorgeous little terrier type dog [not good on breeds].
She took a balloon out of her pocket, blew it up and threw it in the air. The dog threw himself up in the air like a dolphin, nosing it even higher.
Never seen anything like it. He rushed around, jumping and having so much fun. It made everyone smile.
She should put him on You Tube, it'd be a great cheer-up video.

[yahyah]

and I'm sorry I've been tetchy with you OhSo.

[ohsocynical]

s Momentum a mob? No – this is what democracy looks like

A few unpleasant incidents are being highlighted to undermine a huge, peaceful, democratic movement.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy ... looks-like" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TR'sGhost]

I did notice that the BBC interviewed John McDonnell who said what he thought Philip Hammond should be doing re the economy. This interview was immediately followed by an interview with Owen Smith who said that Labour weren't saying anything about the economy. I genuinely don't know what the explanation is for that dissonance.

BBC slant on things? Lack of communication within Labour? The list is potentially endless.

Edit - no idea how this got posted. I ,eant to say something then changed my mind and deleted it. Must have hit "submit" instead of "cancel". I blame touchscreens.

[Rebecca]

Thanks Rebecca. We went out this morning for coffee, it was nice to get a bit dolled up,
and have a long country walk and picnic planned for tomorrow. Would be nice to have a dog to borrow for such occasions.

When we were at a National Trust property a couple of weeks ago a woman had a gorgeous little terrier type dog [not good on breeds].
She took a balloon out of her pocket, blew it up and threw it in the air. The dog threw himself up in the air like a dolphin, nosing it even higher.
Never seen anything like it. He rushed around, jumping and having so much fun. It made everyone smile.
She should put him on You Tube, it'd be a great cheer-up video.

Dogs can be such a pain,but I would not be without them.
Firstly you have to go out wind/rain/snow whatever.
And they are so loving and great guard dogs.My gsd would give her life for me.
Maybe you could get a lovely puppy in the autumn?Bet it would be calming,once you get over the chewing and peeing stage!

[yahyah]

Good night.

I'm glad I won't be around to see Tiny C's reaction on hearing the Brexit result interrupted the process of women giving birth.

[refitman]

"I voted leave for an adventure, rather than any political motive behind it. It seemed like something fun to do. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/3 ... cting-that" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apart from the first one, bunch of fucking idiots.

[tinyclanger2]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 51051.html
The UK is one of the worst countries at converting GDP into actual wellbeing - which could explain Brexit
While indeed the UK enjoys high economic growth (at least for now), it currently ranks in the bottom 20 per cent of converting growth to wellbeing.

Anything to do with Thatcher turning us into a nation of "aspirational" taxophobic I'm alright jacks.

[citizenJA]

I'm dissatisfied choosing between rivals forced into contention not wholly of their own making. Not everyone is a good fit for their post, people are complex,
they're not going to get along with someone all the time or they may work out better than expected. Sometimes people in an organisation don't work out their job.

What I don't know about being an MP is a lot. I've made it my business to find out more though. Those are our representatives in government. We're relying on
those people to make decisions on our behalf affecting our prosperity, health and safety. We're going to have to find a way to work together effectively.

[citizenJA]

I'm a cack handed dozy twit.

Leaning over to reach a cuppa I accidentally pressed down with all my weight onto the micro usb charger where it was plugged into the port of my tablet.

Result - no charge going into tablet due to it being rendered useless. Smashed to bits. This is an ex-tablet.

Less than 20 mins left now, so if I disappear it isn't that I have flounced off , I might take a few days to get a new device.

Laters .

BFN

I love you, TobyLatimer, read you soon.

xx
cJA

[citizenJA]

I talked to the other half's mum about 20 mins ago.
Asked her if she wanted a cup of tea.
Papers haven't got hold of it yet though.

You forgot to alert the whips' office.

Edit: wasn't one of the main plotters/leakers and the guy who was orchestrating the resignations in the whips' office? Oh... Just checked and found this from a report by Sky News' Sophy Ridge:

I’m told the Labour MP coordinating and choreographing the resignations is @ConorMcGinn – significant as he’s in Jeremy Corbyn’s Whips Office. He’s ringing shadow cabinet members and ministers, organising the timings and co-ordinating the resignations to try to cause maximum impact. This is significant because he’s one of Jeremy Corbyn’s Whips – tasked with ensuring party discipline.

Anyone still want to take McGinn at his word?

Frankly, in the light of a betrayal by one of the people responsible for party discipline, I think Corbyn has been remarkably restrained.

I don't understand what's going on.

[TR'sGhost]

Whatever is true about plots, counter plots and nasty things that might happen, what the fuck are people frightened that Jeremy Corbyn will do if he ever gets into power?

Why is he so scary that it is necessary to destroy the Labour party from within or from the outside? He seems to me to be a relatively mild mannered, apparently principled person who was elected as leader of the Labour party.

The current level of vitriol seems to be end of times stuff.

He is not donald trump, he's not Boris Johnson, he's not Stalin, he's not even the alter ego of superman.

It is an election.

He's anti-nuclear weapons.
He's opposed to post-colonial adventuring.
He's for the re-ordering of the economy so it serves the vast majority of people better.
He's for the removal of the legislation that prevents effective industrial action.
He's not a member of the right gentlemen's (or, nowadays, gentlemen's and lady's) clubs.
He supports progressive national liberation movements, doesn't see things in absolute black and white and is prepared to build bridges around resolving single issues with people he doesn't agree with about everything. And, worse, to do so in public.
He supported the Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, the setting up of the Bloody Sunday enquiry and was talking to Sinn Fein when a True British Patriot would condemn them out of hand (please ignore that Thatcher and Major were doing the same, only privately).
He shows very little sign of being an opportunist, a careerist or easily buyable.
He doesn't think that out of all the states in the world there are two whose actions and interests must never, ever be publicly criticised, their governments always supported and British support always available for them.

Put another way, to "those that matter" he "isn't one of us".

[JonnyT1234]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 51051.html
The UK is one of the worst countries at converting GDP into actual wellbeing - which could explain Brexit
While indeed the UK enjoys high economic growth (at least for now), it currently ranks in the bottom 20 per cent of converting growth to wellbeing.

Anything to do with Thatcher turning us into a nation of "aspirational" taxophobic I'm alright jacks.

And when you don't subscribe to that dystopia? Hard left.

[TR'sGhost]

I just copied this from Andrew Sparrow's blog:


"The intelligence services posing as Jeremy Corbyn supporters could be behind the abuse and intimidation of MPs on social media in an attempt to “stir up trouble” for the Labour leader, the Unite boss Len McCluskey has suggested. He said “dark practices” would ultimately be uncovered by the 30-year rule, under which classified documents are released into the public domain three decades after being written."

OK, that's a bit much.

You're right. The way things are, it's more likely to be members of the PLP doing the posing.

Joke. Or, joke?

Sorry, I'm in a stinking mood. I think it needs to thunder and lightning and I always get this way before a storm.

Well, elements within MI5 do seem to have plotted against Wilson, MI5 has form about in countering CND, the Miner's strike, blacklisting of trades unionists, enviromentalists and so on.

Though they generally seem more competent and less frantic than the plotters. And the style of the campaign seems more the kind of thing the likes of John McTernan would cook up. For security services involvement I suspect we'd need to look abroad. Corbyn has always held the position that the Palestinians have a point and in some places that viewpoint is unacceptable.

[HindleA]

People will be offended by different things,personally multiple swearing and advice where to put a pineapple when they think you are female is just the reaction of people with lack of a cogent argument and vocabularly,That sort of thing never has bothered me.What always has and especially now is the array of excuses for an increasing level of bad behaviour by those that can argue articulately.It matters to me because I cannot treat fairly any argument from another view when they are excusing such things and secondly it gives further permission in general for the continuation of such unabated.

[tinyclanger2]

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yor ... t-11652011" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
where's the "speechless with a range of emotions I cannot possibly even begin to identify never mind articulate and certainly not in public" emoticon?

[JonnyT1234]

Willow, this may (or may not?) reassure you a little bit vis a vis Labour's position on the EU and what needs to happen next

Personally, I find the code for increased racism that is 'listening to people's concerns about immigration' disturbing.

[citizenJA]

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yor ... t-11652011
where's the "speechless with a range of emotions I cannot possibly even begin to identify never mind articulate and certainly not in public" emoticon?

oh god

[TR'sGhost]

I talked to the other half's mum about 20 mins ago.
Asked her if she wanted a cup of tea.
Papers haven't got hold of it yet though.

You forgot to alert the whips' office.

Edit: wasn't one of the main plotters/leakers and the guy who was orchestrating the resignations in the whips' office? Oh... Just checked and found this from a report by Sky News' Sophy Ridge:

I’m told the Labour MP coordinating and choreographing the resignations is @ConorMcGinn – significant as he’s in Jeremy Corbyn’s Whips Office. He’s ringing shadow cabinet members and ministers, organising the timings and co-ordinating the resignations to try to cause maximum impact. This is significant because he’s one of Jeremy Corbyn’s Whips – tasked with ensuring party discipline.

Anyone still want to take McGinn at his word?

Frankly, in the light of a betrayal by one of the people responsible for party discipline, I think Corbyn has been remarkably restrained.

I don't understand what's going on.

We're not meant to understand. Just draw the conclusion that Corbyn must go and go now, with a massive defeat, just to restore order. What that order brings with it being less important than a lack of order.

c.f. military coups from Spain through Greece, Chile and Turkey to name but a few. Create and exacerbate instability then take over with a promise of restoring stability. Same sort of strategy only applied within a single political party.

[tinyclanger2]

Willow, this may (or may not?) reassure you a little bit vis a vis Labour's position on the EU and what needs to happen next

Personally, I find the code for increased racism that is 'listening to people's concerns about immigration' disturbing.

Agree - and would like the option of a party that isn't doing this.

[ohsocynical]

Whatever is true about plots, counter plots and nasty things that might happen, what the fuck are people frightened that Jeremy Corbyn will do if he ever gets into power?

Why is he so scary that it is necessary to destroy the Labour party from within or from the outside? He seems to me to be a relatively mild mannered, apparently principled person who was elected as leader of the Labour party.

The current level of vitriol seems to be end of times stuff.

He is not donald trump, he's not Boris Johnson, he's not Stalin, he's not even the alter ego of superman.

It is an election.

He's anti-nuclear weapons.
He's opposed to post-colonial adventuring.
He's for the re-ordering of the economy so it serves the vast majority of people better.

You
He's for the removal of the legislation that prevents effective industrial action.
He's not a member of the right gentlemen's (or, nowadays, gentlemen's and lady's) clubs.
He supports progressive national liberation movements, doesn't see things in absolute black and white and is prepared to build bridges around resolving single issues with people he doesn't agree with about everything. And, worse, to do so in public.
He supported the Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, the setting up of the Bloody Sunday enquiry and was talking to Sinn Fein when a True British Patriot would condemn them out of hand (please ignore that Thatcher and Major were doing the same, only privately).
He shows very little sign of being an opportunist, a careerist or easily buyable.
He doesn't think that out of all the states in the world there are two whose actions and interests must never, ever be publicly criticised, their governments always supported and British support always available for them.

Put another way, to "those that matter" he "isn't one of us".

You forgot one other thing. He has an allotment. And he goes to the allotment holder's meetings. Now that is subversive.

[JonnyT1234]

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yor ... t-11652011
where's the "speechless with a range of emotions I cannot possibly even begin to identify never mind articulate and certainly not in public" emoticon?

Please never let me meet that poor child's parents. Because it really, truly can only be their fault.

[tinyclanger2]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 50066.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexiteers claimed that by leaving the EU they would finally cut the ropes that tied the UK down and prevented it from achieving its potential. But they failed to realise that the UK had already far exceeded the political potential that its GDP and military capabilities suggested it deserved. Rather than binding its political power, the UK’s close ties to the EU helped it to have an outsized influence on the continental and global stage.

And the forthcoming break-up of the UK.

[citizenJA]

Willow, this may (or may not?) reassure you a little bit vis a vis Labour's position on the EU and what needs to happen next

Personally, I find the code for increased racism that is 'listening to people's concerns about immigration' disturbing.

Agree - and would like the option of a party that isn't doing this.

Yes, I agree too. Worst government ever is still in leadership having exacerbated anxiety, fear and anger between regular people Tory
government care nothing about. Wrong to molly-coddle violence and intimidation. The hard job is somehow making people
understand and accept facts about UK immigration policy. Consistent, clear and fair policy from Labour necessary.

[citizenJA]

If Toby needs a new device can we help him get it, please?

apologies edited to correct name

[JonnyT1234]

You forgot one other thing. He has an allotment. And he goes to the allotment holder's meetings. Now that is subversive.

I bet he grows tomatoes. Red ones.

[citizenJA]

http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yor ... t-11652011
where's the "speechless with a range of emotions I cannot possibly even begin to identify never mind articulate and certainly not in public" emoticon?

Please never let me meet that poor child's parents. Because it really, truly can only be their fault.

What's she going to do the day she finds out what Dave is?
Sending off wishes for her well-being now.

[TR'sGhost]

Willow, this may (or may not?) reassure you a little bit vis a vis Labour's position on the EU and what needs to happen next

Personally, I find the code for increased racism that is 'listening to people's concerns about immigration' disturbing.

I'm not sure that it is. Without reading the entire document I also have no idea if the Guardian is even reporting it accurately either.

"Listening to concerns" can mean quite a number of things. It can mean "handing you everything you want" but also mean "to counter something, first we need an in-depth understanding of what it is we are trying to counter and make sure we understand exactly what lies at the root of it. Then we can best work out how to combat it."

Or it can mean the traditional politician/managerial "I hear everything you say and am sympathetic (though I am going to completely ignore you other than noting you're not a team player)".

One thing seems certain. Simply telling 16 or so million people "we don't care what you think, what you want or why you want it, you are going to be ignored in exactly the way the demagogues tell you you are" is a non-starter. Unless you want a Tory right/UKIP coalition government I suppose.

Which, please note, does not mean giving people what the racist demagogues demand or anything like it. There is a strange idea that floats around the Tea Party right and a fraction of the anarchist left that democracy=find out what people want and give it to them. It doesn't. That would be mob rule and the tyranny of the majority, especially if there is more misinformation than information. First off, you have to be sure the people actually understand the issues.

Something Cameron would have been wise to remember.

[tinyclanger2]

If Tubby needs a new device can we help him get it, please?

Tubby or Toby? (given Toby's earlier post)

[JonnyT1234]

Willow, this may (or may not?) reassure you a little bit vis a vis Labour's position on the EU and what needs to happen next

Personally, I find the code for increased racism that is 'listening to people's concerns about immigration' disturbing.

Agree - and would like the option of a party that isn't doing this.

Yes, I agree too. Worst government ever is still in leadership having exacerbated anxiety, fear and anger between regular people Tory
government care nothing about. Wrong to molly-coddle violence and intimidation. The hard job is somehow making people
understand and accept facts about UK immigration policy. Consistent, clear and fair policy from Labour necessary.

I don't know if you stayed up for the referendum results but John McDonnell was excellent on this. Policies that have seen migrants and refugees dumped in the parts of our society least able to deal with it. That piece of the pie getting cut the most by the Tories. Lack of investment. Etc. If only the whole party would do that instead of accepting 'concerns'

[Rebecca]

If Tubby needs a new device can we help him get it, please?

good idea

[citizenJA]

If Tubby needs a new device can we help him get it, please?

Tubby or Toby? (given Toby's earlier post)

Fixed it now - thank you

[tinyclanger2]

Am curious to rediscover the poem alluded to yesterday by caretaker of the Tarquin the Turquoise Tortoise, one Mr HindleA, but could do with a clue/series of clues.

[fedup59]

You forgot one other thing. He has an allotment. And he goes to the allotment holder's meetings. Now that is subversive.

I bet he grows tomatoes. Red ones.

You really appear to a red fetish there you know Jimmy - I know you probably can't get treatment for it from the NHS, maybe a private health care provider could help?

Red carries many hidden dangers, we're here to help for a a fee.

Predictive text thought you should be called Jimmy, Jonny. See what red can do!

[letsskiptotheleft]

Question, can anyone in the last 6 odd years think of anything good happening politically, socially, that feeling oh-so-fleeting feeling of good being done, justice being served, Hillsborough is the only thing to my tired mind I can think of.

I did blub when Wales beat Belguim to reach the semi finals the other week, but that was partly maudlin and part happiness, people no longer here who I once followed Wales with. Struggling to think back of anything actually good happening, probably the same the world over, or maybe I'm being a grump coming off nights with three more to come..

[TobyLatimer]

If Tubby needs a new device can we help him get it, please?

Tubby or Toby? (given Toby's earlier post)

Fixed it now - thank you

Very kind of you to offer CJA, I think I will be OK for a while, my sister has dropped off one that she had as part of a phone contract a few months ago. Hardly been touched, she let me have it for a while as she already has one.

[tinyclanger2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36871282" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Any future deal on Brexit should be ratified by all four UK parliaments, First Minister Carwyn Jones has said.

I'd like to suggest that all 17 million Leave voters have to do some kind of Brexit duty (like jury duty only they have to watch one of these negotiations happen from start to finish). Within days they'll be pleading to be allowed to remain so they don't have to sit through any more tedious discussions whereby each party puts things in square brackets to (never) agree on later.

[letsskiptotheleft]

Tubby or Toby? (given Toby's earlier post)

Fixed it now - thank you

Very kind of you to offer CJA, I think I will be OK for a while, my sister has dropped off one that she had as part of a phone contract a few months ago. Hardly been touched, she let me have it for a while as she already has one.

Tubbs is fine for devices too.

[JonnyT1234]

You forgot one other thing. He has an allotment. And he goes to the allotment holder's meetings. Now that is subversive.

I bet he grows tomatoes. Red ones.

You really appear to a red fetish there you know Jimmy - I know you probably can't get treatment for it from the NHS, maybe a private health care provider could help?

Red carries many hidden dangers, we're here to help for a a fee.

Predictive text thought you should be called Jimmy, Jonny. See what red can do!

It stems from being a hard left communist. Or something. And a having a previously undiscovered Scottish heritage too... Though it would explain my red hair. Hmmmm.

[JonnyT1234]

Willow, this may (or may not?) reassure you a little bit vis a vis Labour's position on the EU and what needs to happen next

Personally, I find the code for increased racism that is 'listening to people's concerns about immigration' disturbing.

I'm not sure that it is. Without reading the entire document I also have no idea if the Guardian is even reporting it accurately either.

The Guardian not being entirely truthful in their award-winning [sic] reportage? The mere thought of it.

It was actually me doing the misreporting - the Guardian claims that its 'accepting people's concerns about immigration' not just listening to them.

Both are still codified racism though. It is putting the blame for our cuts, our lack of investment, our unwillingness to rebel against the upper echelons and get a fairer society rather than meekly waiting for one to be given to us, onto the shoulders of people it had nothing to do with. It's saying it's those pesky immigrants fault.

[JonnyT1234]

One thing seems certain. Simply telling 16 or so million people "we don't care what you think, what you want or why you want it, you are going to be ignored in exactly the way the demagogues tell you you are" is a non-starter. Unless you want a Tory right/UKIP coalition government I suppose.

Sorry, neglected to respond to this point. This has never been what I've argued. My view - and this is what McDonnell articulated exceptionally well on the evening of the referendum - is that everything that is blamed on migrants is actually a consequence of a deliberate choice of, previously, the New Labour government and latterly, the coalition and Tories, of dis-empowering the workless and the working classes, cutting what they have to the bone, and then passing it off as being the fault of migrants that they have nothing.

I think the analogy someone posted on Twitter also exemplified my view: of a boss taking 99 coins from the 100 available and turning to his worker and saying, 'it's your immigrant colleague's fault that you now have to share that 1 coin'.

[JonnyT1234]

Question, can anyone in the last 6 odd years think of anything good happening politically, socially, that feeling oh-so-fleeting feeling of good being done, justice being served, Hillsborough is the only thing to my tired mind I can think of.

I did blub when Wales beat Belguim to reach the semi finals the other week, but that was partly maudlin and part happiness, people no longer here who I once followed Wales with. Struggling to think back of anything actually good happening, probably the same the world over, or maybe I'm being a grump coming off nights with three more to come..

"Woman gives birth"

Not the actual event, but that brilliant bit of satire from the Eye. Cheered me up no end at the time.

Edit: Hillsborough a bit of a mixed bag for me. Good that it finally ended the way it did, but horrible to find out that all your worst thoughts and fears about what had happened in our corridors of power etc. did in fact happen, and with bells on too. Yeah. Not so good.

Corbyn winning was good though.

[ohsocynical]

Question, can anyone in the last 6 odd years think of anything good happening politically, socially, that feeling oh-so-fleeting feeling of good being done, justice being served, Hillsborough is the only thing to my tired mind I can think of.

I did blub when Wales beat Belguim to reach the semi finals the other week, but that was partly maudlin and part happiness, people no longer here who I once followed Wales with. Struggling to think back of anything actually good happening, probably the same the world over, or maybe I'm being a grump coming off nights with three more to come..

It's not you LetsSkp. I can't think of a single thing either. Just a series of u-turns and cock-ups day after day, week after week, and more of the same for the next four years.
Depressing isn't it.

[ohsocynical]

One thing seems certain. Simply telling 16 or so million people "we don't care what you think, what you want or why you want it, you are going to be ignored in exactly the way the demagogues tell you you are" is a non-starter. Unless you want a Tory right/UKIP coalition government I suppose.

Sorry, neglected to respond to this point. This has never been what I've argued. My view - and this is what McDonnell articulated exceptionally well on the evening of the referendum - is that everything that is blamed on migrants is actually a consequence of a deliberate choice of, previously, the New Labour government and latterly, the coalition and Tories, of dis-empowering the workless and the working classes, cutting what they have to the bone, and then passing it off as being the fault of migrants that they have nothing.

I think the analogy someone posted on Twitter also exemplified my view: of a boss taking 99 coins from the 100 available and turning to his worker and saying, 'it's your immigrant colleague's fault that you now have to share that 1 coin'.

I've always said if you give people a decent wage so they can go on holiday for a week and see to their kids, plus provide plenty of affordable housing, most of 'It's the immigrants fault', will die a death.

[ohsocynical]

I get emails from the NHA party.

Not sure I quite agree with a couple of their ideas.

quote]NHA Party » Friday Surgery
We’re quite lucky this week because the Friday Surgery has managed to get an advance of copy of the Foreword of one of the new 5 Year Forward View's local Sustainability and Transformation Plan document being developed around the UK.

Transforming services together - building a healthy footprint for the future

The NHS is the greatest achievement in our history and our nation remains unwavering in that promise of universal healthcare, irrespective of age, health, race, social status or ability to pay. A promise of high quality care for all.

However, although our values haven’t changed, the world around us has. We are currently living in challenging times and these have implications for the delivery of world class health services in the UK. It is clear that with an aging population, innovations in technology and treatment and with more people experiencing complex health issues, we need to develop an NHS that is truly fit for the 21st century. This is an NHS founded on choice for you, the patient.

Firstly, we know that our patients are repeatedly frustrated at having efficient and responsive district general hospitals right on their doorsteps. That’s why we intend to close or downgrade around half of all district general hospitals. Effective 21st century emergency and maternity care is going to increasingly be about making sure that frail and vulnerable people are given the opportunity to take control of their own healthcare by travelling to distant towns.

We are absolutely committed to putting pictures of cute babies and vulnerable (but smiling) old people on the cover of any publications we produce on service cuts in the NHS. A 21st century NHS is going to need photos of happy babies and old people on the cover of documents that remove services from happy babies and old people.

In primary care, we know that GPs are currently facing unprecedented demand. There has been much frustration with NHS England due to closing surgeries and long waiting lists. That’s why, with co-commissioning, NHS England has made it possible for people to be frustrated with local CCGs instead. We need to be at the forefront of transferring debts from NHS England to local commissioning groups.

Patients, especially those who need regular medical treatment like kidney dialysis and chemotherapy should be able to choose how to get to hospital. That’s why we set out a plan to tender our patient transport service to a private company who have never done it before but fancy having a go. This way we can finally change the ‘ambulance nanny culture’ and let patients chose their own way of getting to hospital.

Mental health is a central pillar in our plan. We intend to put service users, carers and families in charge by withdrawing many mental health services. This way families and service users can take control and provide their own treatment. For those who do chose NHS services we will finally end the senseless culture of waste that has repeatedly seen properly trained professionals work with vulnerable people. Under our new plans, a deskilled workforce, armed with a first aid certificate, will provide a more responsive and patient friendly approach to care.

We have listened and responded to people’s concerns about making sure that commercial confidentiality protects private companies during contract procurement. That’s why we set out a vision that trains all of our staff to say “Sorry, commercial confidentiality means we can’t divulge that” to any query, even if they are only being asked how they like their tea. We want 21st century health consumers to have the peace of mind that companies like Circle, Serco and Virgincare won’t waste your valuable time by burdening you with red tape.

Most importantly of all, we are going to financially reward the NHS managers who are prepared to put themselves at the forefront of 21st century healthcare. 21st century healthcare should be about dedicated managers returning home from a hard day of efficiency savings to not know which bathroom to use because they have so many.

And finally we intend to listen to you. Without effective consultation, healthcare planning simply isn’t responsive to local need. That’s why we intend to hold poorly advertised meetings at times that people struggle to attend to stare distantly out of the window while you express your needs and opinions. And we respect that patients live busy lives and so commissioning decisions will occur in closed door meetings that are not publicly minuted. We need to grasp the nettle and accept that the future for integrated healthcare in the UK has to be about enabling more public servants to hide stuff.

We know now more than ever that we need to take a longer view -a Five-Year Forward View. This document sets out how the health service needs to change, arguing for a more engaged relationship with patients, carers and citizens so that we can deliver world class healthcare to the people who most need it. We are ready, we want you to join us.



For more information see http://nhap.org/the-biggest-attack-on-the-nhs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and sign https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... le-our-nhs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NHA's 'Friday Surgery' is written by Dr Carl Walker who is a member of the party's executive committee.[/quote]

[HindleA]

Not now or the feasible I suggest,witness the bile against the sick/disabled that has transended both the good times and bad for over thirty years since the germination of the myth and subsequent collusion to continue it.Still no evidence despite streams of released papers,and non will be found.It doesn't really matter because the "truth" still retains.

[ohsocynical]

More from that Ex Shadow Cabinet Member

Anti-Corbyn plotters in the parliamentary Labour party (PLP) have vowed to hold annual leadership challenges against the Labour leader in what they call a “war of attrition”, if he wins again in September – proving they are willing to hand the Conservative another election victory to topple their own leader.

Considering it is very difficult for Labour to hold the government to account when its MPs are infighting, yet alone win a general election, it seems the rebels are willing to hand the Conservatives victory if Corbyn does not ignore his democratic mandate and resign. After making steady gains in the polls up until the EU referendum, it’s the subsequent coup that appears to have gifted the Tories a healthy lead.

One former shadow cabinet member anonymously told the Independent:

There will be a process of attrition. Most of the PLP will not serve under Jeremy. His position is untenable. The sooner he realises that, the better.

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/22/labo ... le-corbyn/

[AnatolyKasparov]

No fewer than eleven local council byelections this week:

Gwynedd - Plaid Cymru hold, beating Labour by 3 to 1 in a straight fight. This was a significant increase for Plaid compared with four years ago, when they gained this from the incumbent Independent fairly narrowly (after they had been returned here unopposed in 2004 and 2008) Seems to be part of a trend of Plaid consolidating in this part of the world again after suffering some setbacks a few years ago.

South Staffordshire DC - Tory hold with just over half the vote, edging up from just under that last year. There was a swing to second placed Labour, however - giving them one of their better results in this ward which has always returned three Tories since at least 2003 (Labour's closest result was actually in a previous 2005 by-election) and the swing since 2011 was actually higher - some 6%. Partly this was due to a clear falling away by UKIP, down nearly 7% on GE day having run Labour close then. As we will see, this is becoming a bit of a trend......

Hackney - Labour hold, with an impressive 75% of the vote and a double figure swing from the Greens since 2014. Those were the first elections here since boundary changes, but Labour's showing now compares well with results in the nearest comparable ward previously as well. Greens dropped 13% to almost exactly 10%, still ahead of LibDems and Tories respectively - they were both little changed. There was an Independent trying their luck this time, but they came last with just 3%.

Tandridge DC - Tory hold with comfortably over half and little change since May this year, but there was a swing to the second placed LibDems who had a double figure increase to just over a third of the vote. This has since the turn of the millennium been a safe Tory ward, but the LibDems have almost invariably taken the (often distant) runners up spot - the one exception being 2014 when UKIP came a fairly decent second in what remains their electoral high water mark to date. They fell back significantly two months ago, however, and dropped a further 4% now to 10% - the LibDems were also aided by the absence of a Labour candidate this time round, though they invariably finish a distant last in this classic commuter territory.

Newark and Sherwood DC - Tory hold as they trounced the LibDems in a straight fight with 82% of the vote. This is a bit of an odd one in a few respects - last year (the first election since boundary changes) the Tories triumphed in a straight fight with Labour but rather more modestly - a bit less than 3 to 2 - and previous comparable results were not dissimilar. Quite often, Labour voters will turn out in good numbers for a LibDem when a candidate of their own is unavailable - but that does not seem to have happened this time. Why is an intriguing question?

Lancashire CC - Tory hold of a marginal division here with hardly any swing, as both they and Labour gained slightly on 2013. There was little movement since 2005 as well, but swing to Labour of over 10% since 2009 suggests this was not a terrible result for the reds even if they fell slightly short. Again, UKIP were the losers as they fell back not just on 3 years ago but even more so compared with 2009 (when, unusually, they recorded their best performance ever - finishing only just behind Labour) LibDems last with under 5%, but that was actually a touch up on last time round, which may also frustrate Labour slightly.

Lewisham - Labour hold a safe ward which has always returned three councillors for them, with over half the vote and a modest increase in share from 2014. The Tories have no councillors here now, but this has long been one of their relatively strong wards (only in 2010 did the LibDems - generally much stronger in this council - beat them in elections this century) and they increased by over 5% in second place meaning there was a small swing to them overall - though there was a small pro-Labour movement since a previous 2011 by-election. LibDems also increased by over 5%, coming off their 2014 floor - and both overtook the localist leftist movement People Before Profit, whose sole candidate had just finished ahead of the Tory slate two years ago, but fell to 4th now with their share close to halved. They weren't that far ahead of UKIP, who took 6% in their first outing here at council level.

Reading - Labour hold one of their safest wards here with 64% of the vote, almost unchanged on two months ago. In fact the biggest change of any of the four candidates since then was the second placed Tories edging forward by a bit more than 1%, whilst the also rans - LibDems in 3rd, Greens in 4th - both dropped fractionally. Though compared with previous contests, a bit more variation is apparent - a small swing to the Tories in 2012 and a previous (mid 2014) by-election, but a swing of 4% to Labour since the regular 2014 polls and a hefty 10% since a year ago - clearly an area where GE level turnout gave the Tories a considerable boost.

Northampton DC - the one seat to change hands this week as the LibDems stormed to victory, gaining this from the Tories with almost exactly half the vote and a swing of over 30%. Compared to 2011, the swing was more modest but a still impressive 16% - those were the first elections here since boundary changes, but some historical perspective is gained when taking into account the LibDems used to win the (larger) predecessor ward; this was an impressive result for them nonetheless. Tories slumped so badly they weren't that far ahead of Labour, who were also clearly down on GE day (though actually a bit up on 2011) with a still fairly respectable 23%.

East Devon DC - two vacancies here and both Tory holds, the first was a highly unusual affair where all three contestants strongly "gained" share on a year ago due to the rather bigger electoral choice back then - the localist East Devon Independents, Greens and UKIP all polled quite strongly on GE day but did not trouble the scorer this time. But as then Tories were top and LibDems (who last broke the Tory monopoly here bck in 2003, when this ward split 2LibDem/1Tory) second - and in fact there was hardly any swing between them. Labour third with 16%, actually down a bit on when they last stood here in 2011. The other contest saw a Tory hold with just under 40%, almost unchanged from last year when three Tories were safely returned (as in every regular election since 2003 - a LibDem gain in 2009 was the sole exception, and since losing it back in 2011 they have not been seen here) though a small increase for the second placed EDI's meant a tiny swing to them overall. Labour not far behind with over 21% - notably better than their least showing here in 2011 - meaning they finished ahead of UKIP who, again, saw their share clearly down.

Seven contests next week to end the month (including one each on Tuesday and Wednesday)