Wednesday 27th July 2016

Post by **refitman** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 7:11 am

Morning all.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 8:25 am

Morning all
Hindle's link from last night --
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... e-tuc-oecd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Somewhat of a contradiction to the much-repeated insistence that the UK has been the fastest growing economy in Europe, I'm off to see if any (decent) economists have commented on it .

First thoughts are that the 'profits' from growth have increasingly gone to Capital, at the expense of Labour, where lower unemployment is actually a sign that people are desperate to earn something at any price, not very productive tho in econ terms ... (Still waking up )

If Lost Soul is around, my recipe for avoiding political indigestion and clear the mind, is to time-travel by reading a historical novel or other history, and also get outside, if not housebound!

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1244 ... ast_Mughal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Last Mughal is a mighty read, brilliant research . I don't think I would have bought it new, but just came across it second-hand, for €1.

PS currently enjoying the first few pages of Joseph Banks by Patrick O'Brien .

More time-travelling ...

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 8:38 am

One of the early comments in the article continues the nautical theme

The naval gazing should end, and the ideology should be the basis, but Labour needs attack dogs, not reasonable people, that is not who we are fighting against.

That's twice in one month that I've seen that gem

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 8:39 am

Morning all.
Getting outside would be nice if the rain would shift. This summer is poor, even for Wales.

Scottish Labour have issued a Brexit action plan for the economy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36897565" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 8:41 am

http://labourhame.com/scottish-labour-a ... tion-plan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 8:47 am

Have started the day with a smile, reading about the Foreign Office cat Palmerston, and that Larry's sore paw is better.

Also it was heartening to hear that Sanders made the way smoother for Clinton, by calling for the suspension of the usual process at the convention last night. The Trump nightmare may not become real if all his supporters help work against it.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 8:53 am

yahyah wrote:http://labourhame.com/scottish-labour-a ... tion-plan/

That all sounds like sound advice.

I wonder if Sturgeon ever reflects on her role in re-electing a Tory government (due to her obsessive hostility to Labour) and how none of this disastrous crap would ever have happened if Miliband had become PM instead of that idiot Cameron.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 8:54 am

Sorry for the source but I do think this is an outrage

http://order-order.com/2016/07/27/242524/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know he was living in Denmark and probably wanted his children schooled in Britain, but even so.

I feel much the same about Diane Abbott and Harriet Harman. Do this, you should resign.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 8:56 am

Can we keep the outrage level low please ?

Am having to start monitoring my blood pressure again for the GP next week.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 9:04 am

yahyah wrote:Have started the day with a smile, reading about the Foreign Office cat Palmerston, and that Larry's sore paw is better.

Also it was heartening to hear that Sanders made the way smoother for Clinton, by calling for the suspension of the usual process at the convention last night. The Trump nightmare may not become real if all his supporters help work against it.

Sanders, like JC, has a massive following - many of whom are very much against Hillary Clinton. One reason is her connection to Monsanto, allegedly the 'world's most evil corporation'.

However, as the alternative is dangerous simpleton Trump, most Sanders supporters see the logic of putting party first.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 9:15 am

D is for donkey,duck,daisy and Dot according to Lucie Attwell.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 9:16 am

Good morfternoon.

Any more on that concerning Labour e-mail from yesterday? If its purpose was what has been contended (and I worry that it's purpose was just what was being contended), it wasn't very cunningly constructed, was it? It didn't exactly flow logically. That's what stopped me in my tracks.

Edited

Good God - stray apperstroff. Mortified.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 9:28 am

From today's Daily Mash:

UKIP steps up search for new bellend

UKIP is to accelerate its leadership election to fill the bellend void left by Nigel Farage.

The party wants to quickly appoint a git, or possibly even an arse, or face losing the support of Britain’s utter bellends to the reinvigorated Conservative Party.

One of the front-runners is councillor Lisa Duffy, described by various members of the party faithful as ‘who?’ and ‘the Gordon Brown one?’.

The current favourite with bookmakers is Steven Woolfe, viewed as the ‘acceptable face’ of UKIP by people with incredibly low standards.

Whoever becomes leader will have to decide why the party now needs to exist, with many feeling that they should be more vocal on the subject of ghastly foreign cheeses.

Former leader Nigel Farage resigned last month so he could spend more time being one of the reasons people do not go to pubs any more.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 9:54 am

Freedomofthepress wrote:
yahyah wrote:Can we keep the outrage level low please ?
Am having to start monitoring my blood pressure again for the GP next week.
I sympathise with your health issue but can I ask what was wrong with what Hugo alluded to? I ask as it is very likely to be something that I might have produced a link for.

Is there a set of guidelines within this forum as to what we can and cannot report on for fear of causing people to get upset. Passions run high in politics and isn't it always better to be informed even if we don't like hat we read a lot of the time, at least the information is not being suppressed for fear of annoying someone.

I wasn't referring specifically to that. Meant in general. That's why I started the day smiling.
I should have put a smiley emoticon with thezsen one, but emoticons offend some people...so hey ho I'll be wrong whatever I do.

and if you notice I thanked him for linking it, just in case I get accused of being a Red Tory Stephen Kinnock supporter.

Please can I ask that people stop taking everything as a personal slight, or take offence at everyone's post. It is getting ridiculous.

But you can't stop people making up their own distorted views of things.
So I think the best thing I can do is probably stay away from here if everyone is going to be so quick to take offence at every single word someone writes. Much better for my health, but I will miss old pals.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 9:57 am

Am pleased that I stayed calm about that at least. No point letting other people affect one.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 10:02 am

Growth of 0.6% for Q2. Called correctly by NIESR as J.Portes pointed out to someone who was surprised...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdom ... tojune2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the important one - only services back to above 2008 level. March of the makers, Rebalancing the economy etc etc...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 10:19 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... perimental" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Housing Benefit: entitlement reductions, 2015 to 2016

Quarterly statistics on Housing Benefit entitlement reductions identified by local authorities as a proportion of expected reductions

WTF

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 10:32 am

Missed the point,with respect.Probably me.I am saying and this applies to both sides.Of course you can say what you want,but if you don't bear in mind the things I stated it risks disengagement from others with a different view or none.Far from shutting down debate I made the point to merely to suggest a way to facillitate debate,that was all.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 10:33 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Any more on that concerning Labour e-mail from yesterday? If its purpose was what has been contended (and I worry that it's purpose was just what was being contended), it wasn't very cunningly constructed, was it? It didn't exactly flow logically. That's what stopped me in my tracks.

Edited

Good God - stray apperstroff. Mortified.

Hi PorFavor. I've just found the Corbyn e-mail in my in-tray. There were e-mails a bit like this last year from the various leadership contenders if you remember, but mostly just asking if you supported the person they were from and then you would be asked if you wanted information from them. There is a note under the links of the Corbyn one which explains this:

: Corbyn e-mail.jpg (43.66 KiB) Viewed 8567 times

I don't think this is unusual, although people should be asked clearly if they wish to be contacted in future, rather than just being signed up by clicking the links. What Linda Grant was asserting on Twitter last night is something else and related to the questions to people who say they are going to support Owen Smith and how that information was going to be used, but beyond her assertion there is no evidence to support it and I have no idea where she got it from. I'd be tempted to dismiss it, except, as I mentioned last night, Momentum contacted me by text when I have never directly given them my number to the best of my knowledge, which does raise a doubt in my mind as to whether campaigns for Corbyn, which of course includes Momentum as it morphed from the Jeremy for Leader campaign and has never been set up as a separate entity as far as I know, is properly respecting the privacy of signed up Labour members who they would originally have had access to via the leadership campaigns last year. It's just a slight doubt, however, and mostly I think the Owen Smith questionnaire is just a bit clunky and off-putting and won't win them any friends with waverers as it comes across as a bit aggressive.

As to my phone no, I filled out just the number bit of the opt-out form and submitted as they really shouldn't need anything else to stop contacting it, I would have thought. Certainly I've never had to give my name to stop junk texts before. So we'll see.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 10:50 am

Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Any more on that concerning Labour e-mail from yesterday? If its purpose was what has been contended (and I worry that it's purpose was just what was being contended), it wasn't very cunningly constructed, was it? It didn't exactly flow logically. That's what stopped me in my tracks.

Edited

Good God - stray apperstroff. Mortified.
Hi PorFavor. I've just found the Corbyn e-mail in my in-tray. There were e-mails a bit like this last year from the various leadership contenders if you remember, but mostly just asking if you supported the person they were from and then you would be asked if you wanted information from them. There is a note under the links of the Corbyn one which explains this:

Corbyn e-mail.jpg
I don't think this is unusual, although people should be asked clearly if they wish to be contacted in future, rather than just being signed up by clicking the links. What Linda Grant was asserting on Twitter last night is something else and related to the questions to people who say they are going to support Owen Smith and how that information was going to be used, but beyond her assertion there is no evidence to support it and I have no idea where she got it from. I'd be tempted to dismiss it, except, as I mentioned last night, Momentum contacted me by text when I have never directly given them my number to the best of my knowledge, which does raise a doubt in my mind as to whether campaigns for Corbyn, which of course includes Momentum as it morphed from the Jeremy for Leader campaign and has never been set up as a separate entity as far as I know, is properly respecting the privacy of signed up Labour members who they would originally have had access to via the leadership campaigns last year. It's just a slight doubt, however, and mostly I think the Owen Smith questionnaire is just a bit clunky and off-putting and won't win them any friends with waverers as it comes across as a bit aggressive.

As to my phone no, I filled out just the number bit of the opt-out form and submitted as they really shouldn't need anything else to stop contacting it, I would have thought. Certainly I've never had to give my name to stop junk texts before. So we'll see.

Thanks for the response and for your take on the issue.

Edited to add -

Hello!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:05 am

Good-morning, everyone.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:10 am

Too early for very odd references to poo? Never I say. (This is very wtf but ensure you make it all the way through to the final image in the tweet. It's a bit of light relief for all).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:11 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Sorry for the source but I do think this is an outrage

http://order-order.com/2016/07/27/242524/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know he was living in Denmark and probably wanted his children schooled in Britain, but even so.

I feel much the same about Diane Abbott and Harriet Harman. Do this, you should resign.

Well, you won't find many Stephen Kinnock fans on here - all the more so after his recent behaviour

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:13 am

More light relief in the form of Kim Jong Un looking like a sassy NHS nurse.

PS. The weather has finally broken. Hallelujah.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:15 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Sorry for the source but I do think this is an outrage

http://order-order.com/2016/07/27/242524/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know he was living in Denmark and probably wanted his children schooled in Britain, but even so.

I feel much the same about Diane Abbott and Harriet Harman. Do this, you should resign.
Well, you won't find many Stephen Kinnock fans on here - all the more so after his recent behaviour

Nor, admittedly, many Diane Abbott fans either.

Harman, I'm assuming, is more Marmite.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:16 am

TV’s failure to properly scrutinise Boris Johnson’s EU claims a ‘criminal act’

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/ ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:20 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Sorry for the source but I do think this is an outrage

http://order-order.com/2016/07/27/242524/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know he was living in Denmark and probably wanted his children schooled in Britain, but even so.

I feel much the same about Diane Abbott and Harriet Harman. Do this, you should resign.
Well, you won't find many Stephen Kinnock fans on here - all the more so after his recent behaviour

It's a shame about Stephen Kinnock being such a disappointment. He's a good speaker without his father's "windbaggery".

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:22 am

Owen Smith speaking on 5live now.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:23 am

I refer again, as I did yesterday, to the "sense of entitlement" he and so many others in the Labour "aristocracy" convey. It is genuinely toxic.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:24 am

Owen Smith is saying all the right things again. I would welcome a department of Social Security.

I wonder why he didn't stand last year on a left ticket instead of Corbyn ?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:25 am

Andrew Sparrow (Politics Live, Guardian) getting into a tangle over reported speech and direct quotes in his coverage of Owen Smith. I feel quite dizzy.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:26 am

nickyinnorfolk wrote:...many of whom are very much against Hillary Clinton. One reason is her connection to Monsanto, allegedly the 'world's most evil corporation'...

They do become Weyland-Yutani in the future. So... true.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:28 am

TobyLatimer wrote:Owen Smith is saying all the right things again. I would welcome a department of Social Security.

I wonder why he didn't stand last year on a left ticket instead of Corbyn ?

IIRC he made noises about standing. I suppose he (as with a few others who pondered a bid) didn't forsee how utterly Harman would discredit the "mainstream" candidates.

(plus, of course, that wretched nominations thing again - hopefully considerably improved at this year's conference)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:29 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Sorry for the source but I do think this is an outrage

http://order-order.com/2016/07/27/242524/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know he was living in Denmark and probably wanted his children schooled in Britain, but even so.

I feel much the same about Diane Abbott and Harriet Harman. Do this, you should resign.

At the time he was asked, his daughter was at school in Denmark and was also - lets not forget - the daughter of the Danish PM. Security has to be a factor here. On returning to the UK the Danish Gov paid towards her school fees, again because of security concerns.
Can you imagine the international outrage had she been kidnapped by an ISIS like group whilst walking to the local comprehensive?
Yes unfair, but she also carried an unfairly higher "at risk" factor because of her mother's position.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:34 am

HindleA wrote:D is for donkey,duck,daisy and Dot according to Lucie Attwell.

My favourite children's illustrator...I have one of her books still...

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:39 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Sorry for the source but I do think this is an outrage

http://order-order.com/2016/07/27/242524/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know he was living in Denmark and probably wanted his children schooled in Britain, but even so.

I feel much the same about Diane Abbott and Harriet Harman. Do this, you should resign.
At the time he was asked, his daughter was at school in Denmark and was also - lets not forget - the daughter of the Danish PM. Security has to be a factor here. On returning to the UK the Danish Gov paid towards her school fees, again because of security concerns.
Can you imagine the international outrage had she been kidnapped by an ISIS like group whilst walking to the local comprehensive?
Yes unfair, but she also carried an unfairly higher "at risk" factor because of her mother's position.

Well, I understand that, but Cameron's children went to a state school.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:41 am

This may be the time to remind people of an interesting fact - Kinnock Jnr only won selection to his present seat before the last GE by a single vote.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:41 am

@freedomofthepress.

It was a joke. You know trying to lighten things ups, and share stuff about ourselves as we used to do here before it became as it has recently.

Hugo used the word outrage. All the 'outrage' being expressed is part of the problem, not the solution.
If we feel outrage that Kinnock Jnr has sent his children to private school, what do we feel when something really bad happens ?

Corbyn has suggested lowering the political temperature.
Feeling outrage at every small thing, does not help that, particularly when it is something pretty predictable about Kinnock Jnr.

That's what I meant, as well as trying to be light.
I'm not the only one with health issues here, many do. Am sorry if the sharing of them doesn't suit some, but it is what makes FTN unique. If people want a cold, sweary outrage forum there are plenty around.

But hey ho, Im now obviously regarded as the enemy for some here because I dare hold the view that Corbyn has issues as a leader, despite voting for him, and that the infighting is helping no-one.

& I'm not staying away. Sorry if that disappoints some. You'll have to put up with my simplistic ways a little longer.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:43 am

yahyah wrote: But hey ho, Im now obviously regarded as the enemy for some here because I dare hold the view that Corbyn has issues as a leader, despite voting for him, and that the infighting is helping no-one.

Hey, you aren't *my* enemy for saying that - and never will be.

#jesuisyahyah

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:51 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Sorry for the source but I do think this is an outrage

http://order-order.com/2016/07/27/242524/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know he was living in Denmark and probably wanted his children schooled in Britain, but even so.

I feel much the same about Diane Abbott and Harriet Harman. Do this, you should resign.
At the time he was asked, his daughter was at school in Denmark and was also - lets not forget - the daughter of the Danish PM. Security has to be a factor here. On returning to the UK the Danish Gov paid towards her school fees, again because of security concerns.
Can you imagine the international outrage had she been kidnapped by an ISIS like group whilst walking to the local comprehensive?
Yes unfair, but she also carried an unfairly higher "at risk" factor because of her mother's position.

Well, I understand that, but Cameron's children went to a state school.

But not one as we know it, more of a M&S taste the difference type of state school.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:54 am

frog222 wrote:Morning all
Hindle's link from last night --
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... e-tuc-oecd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Somewhat of a contradiction to the much-repeated insistence that the UK has been the fastest growing economy in Europe, I'm off to see if any (decent) economists have commented on it .

First thoughts are that the 'profits' from growth have increasingly gone to Capital, at the expense of Labour, where lower unemployment is actually a sign that people are desperate to earn something at any price, not very productive tho in econ terms ... (Still waking up )

UK real wages decline of over 10% is the most severe in the OECD (equal to Greece)
http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2016/07/uk ... al-greece/

Back in work, but still out of pocket
The crisis also adversely affected earnings and the resulting wage gap may be difficult to close

Comparing real wage growth during 2000-07 with that during 2008-15 suggests a sharp deceleration in some countries, including the
Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia and the United Kingdom. By 2015, real hourly wages in these countries were more than 25% below
where they would have been if wage growth had continued at the rate observed during 2000-07, and this wage gap exceeded 20%
in Greece, Hungary and Ireland.

Whether workers can ever recuperate the potential wage gains lost since 2007 is uncertain, especially if labour productivity growth
remains weak.

https://www.oecd.org/els/emp/Employment ... torial.pdf

Labour market developments in the United Kingdom

Average hourly real wages fell by more than 10% after 2007, and have only recovered slightly as the labour market strengthened
in 2015. From April 2016, a new higher minimum wage rate applies for adults aged 25 and over.

The disappointing growth in real wages partly reflects weak labour productivity growth of only 2% from 2010 to 2015, the smallest
increase in the OECD after Hungary, Italy and Greece. This may be linked to the growth in jobs with low-hours and intermittent work.

https://www.oecd.org/unitedkingdom/Empl ... dom-EN.pdf

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:54 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Oh, and in view of early posts, if anyone on here is a fan of nautical fiction, I can suggest a novel that some feel may not have got the attention it deserves

Can you link to it please Robert?

Post by **refitman** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 11:56 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Oh, and in view of early posts, if anyone on here is a fan of nautical fiction, I can suggest a novel that some feel may not have got the attention it deserves

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ?

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:00 pm

Nor could you be any enemy of mine, yahyah

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:03 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
HindleA wrote:D is for donkey,duck,daisy and Dot according to Lucie Attwell.
My favourite children's illustrator...I have one of her books still...

I was quoting from one I received in my first year of school when you got presented with them for attendance.Excellent ending Z is for Zebra and that is the Last ,part of the Little Poppet series.Moving on to another book I received for perfect attendence at a parish church Sunday School the excellent "The Boy Who Wanted Everything,1967 Lutterwith Press illustrated by Tansy Baran.I did wonder why they wanted to make us vicious old men though as in "I will make you Fishers of men"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:09 pm

yahyah wrote:@freedomofthepress.

It was a joke. You know trying to lighten things ups, and share stuff about ourselves as we used to do here before it became as it has recently.

Hugo used the word outrage. All the 'outrage' being expressed is part of the problem, not the solution.
If we feel outrage that Kinnock Jnr has sent his children to private school, what do we feel when something really bad happens ?

Corbyn has suggested lowering the political temperature.
Feeling outrage at every small thing, does not help that, particularly when it is something pretty predictable about Kinnock Jnr.

That's what I meant, as well as trying to be light.
I'm not the only one with health issues here, many do. Am sorry if the sharing of them doesn't suit some, but it is what makes FTN unique. If people want a cold, sweary outrage forum there are plenty around.

But hey ho, Im now obviously regarded as the enemy for some here because I dare hold the view that Corbyn has issues as a leader, despite voting for him, and that the infighting is helping no-one.

& I'm not staying away. Sorry if that disappoints some. You'll have to put up with my simplistic ways a little longer.

If it's any consolation to anybody I misread it as "outage" and spent a wasted minute or so pondering thunderstorm-related matters.

As you were . . .

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:09 pm

yahyah wrote:@freedomofthepress.

It was a joke. You know trying to lighten things ups, and share stuff about ourselves as we used to do here before it became as it has recently.

Hugo used the word outrage. All the 'outrage' being expressed is part of the problem, not the solution.
If we feel outrage that Kinnock Jnr has sent his children to private school, what do we feel when something really bad happens ?

Corbyn has suggested lowering the political temperature.
Feeling outrage at every small thing, does not help that, particularly when it is something pretty predictable about Kinnock Jnr.

That's what I meant, as well as trying to be light.
I'm not the only one with health issues here, many do. Am sorry if the sharing of them doesn't suit some, but it is what makes FTN unique. If people want a cold, sweary outrage forum there are plenty around.

But hey ho, Im now obviously regarded as the enemy for some here because I dare hold the view that Corbyn has issues as a leader, despite voting for him, and that the infighting is helping no-one.

& I'm not staying away. Sorry if that disappoints some. You'll have to put up with my simplistic ways a little longer.

Quite agree yahyah. JC is not a great leader but what's the alternative?
What did make me cross was the BBC cutting away so that some MPs could discuss what OS had said so far

Anyway, I agree with what he said but I agreed with Theresa May outside no 10. I didn't believe her: should I believe Owen Smith?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:11 pm

Still, the Adam Smith Institute turned their frown upside down and looked on the bright side of life!

July 27, 2016
In praise of Britain's flexible labour market

Of course, the GDP fall is not desirable in the least. But it having happened which would we prefer? Wage falls or mass
unemployment? And the reason we worked so hard, starting under Thatcher of course, to have a flexible labour market
was so that we could gain this result. Perhaps a crude calculation but better that 100% of us lose 10% than that 15%
of us lose 100% of our incomes.

Thus this result can be seen as a surprise, yes, but a welcome one. We have managed to alter the economy so that if,
as and when, there is that undesirable economic pain we now spread it, share it, rather than dumping it upon those
who lose their jobs.

Isn't it lovely when a plan works?

http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/in-praise ... our-market" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Except it's not all that accurate.

(The figures are extracted from chart 1.2 in the Employment Outlook.)

The government’s argument is that flexibility on wages has permitted the employment gains. Whatever your view of the theory,
the data show this is not obviously the case. In spite of the largest falls in wages, the UK ranks sixteenth (of 42) in terms of job
gains (though the employment chart includes some non-OECD countries that have performed well). Any flexibility in Greece was
completely pointless. Moreover the countries with the highest gains in real wages were also among those with the highest
employment gains.

http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2016/07/uk ... al-greece/

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:17 pm

Having grasped the basics.I'm re-reading Hegemony & Socialist Strategy:Towards a Radical Democratic Politics by Ernesto Laclau and Chantal Mouffe,with a fresh pair of eyes.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:18 pm

frightful_oik wrote:
yahyah wrote:@freedomofthepress.

It was a joke. You know trying to lighten things ups, and share stuff about ourselves as we used to do here before it became as it has recently.

Hugo used the word outrage. All the 'outrage' being expressed is part of the problem, not the solution.
If we feel outrage that Kinnock Jnr has sent his children to private school, what do we feel when something really bad happens ?

Corbyn has suggested lowering the political temperature.
Feeling outrage at every small thing, does not help that, particularly when it is something pretty predictable about Kinnock Jnr.

That's what I meant, as well as trying to be light.
I'm not the only one with health issues here, many do. Am sorry if the sharing of them doesn't suit some, but it is what makes FTN unique. If people want a cold, sweary outrage forum there are plenty around.

But hey ho, Im now obviously regarded as the enemy for some here because I dare hold the view that Corbyn has issues as a leader, despite voting for him, and that the infighting is helping no-one.

& I'm not staying away. Sorry if that disappoints some. You'll have to put up with my simplistic ways a little longer.
Quite agree yahyah. JC is not a great leader but what's the alternative?
What did make me cross was the BBC cutting away so that some MPs could discuss what OS had said so far
Anyway, I agree with what he said but I agreed with Theresa May outside no 10. I didn't believe her: should I believe Owen Smith?

Quite. Even Margaret Thatcher came out with a nice turn if phrase (even if usually lifted from somebody else) from time to time. However, I'm more inclined to believe Owen Smith, although I'm still not completely convinced (yet?).