Tuesday 2nd August 2016

Post by **refitman** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 7:11 am

Morning all.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 8:17 am

Good morfternoon.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 8:18 am

Morning Dan.

Was wondering if it would be worth starting two sticky threads, one for Corbyn and one for Smith where we just post straight information of their policies and campaign statements, polling results for the leadership etc.

Maybe no responses allowed there, other than to post information or links, so the sort of 'you are wrong, I'm right' that happens here doesn't get in the way of having a go-to info place to help form a view on who to vote for.

*Please note: My being unable to feel enthusiastic about either candidate, and wanting to have a non-spun resource to help make the decision, does not mean this is an anti-Corbyn or pro-Smith post.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 8:21 am

@RogerOThornhill

To answer your question from last night - yes, I did see the Katharine Birbalsingh response to which you referred. I didn't have anything fit to print when I first saw it, and still don't.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 8:30 am

Nathan Gill has been told by the Ukip executive council that he can't be both a member of the Welsh Assembly and an MEP. He's threatened with having the party whip removed if he continues ''double-jobbing''.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... k-11690212" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and Wales had more rainfall yesterday than the whole of July, which was not a dry month.
Floods in the south. Hope LetsSkip is not affected.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 8:32 am

Well, it is the silly season. Can imagine Ed B would be popular with the female viewers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08 ... e-dancing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 8:52 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... clarations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Free school applications: suitability and declarations form

Assessment criteria for members and directors of academy trusts to submit personal information.

Notes:Hating "liberals"and ability to spew forth on television daily on subjects you know nothing about particularly welcome.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 8:54 am

yahyah wrote:Morning Dan.

Was wondering if it would be worth starting two sticky threads, one for Corbyn and one for Smith where we just post straight information of their policies and campaign statements, polling results for the leadership etc.

Maybe no responses allowed there, other than to post information or links, so the sort of 'you are wrong, I'm right' that happens here doesn't get in the way of having a go-to info place to help form a view on who to vote for.

*Please note: My being unable to feel enthusiastic about either candidate, and wanting to have a non-spun resource to help make the decision, does not mean this is an anti-Corbyn or pro-Smith post.

Morning all.
Excellent idea. I'm expecting a lot of overlap.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 8:58 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... isis-grows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Home ownership in England at lowest level in 30 years as housing crisis grows
Calls for government to build more homes as growing gap between earnings and house prices sees ownership fall across the country and people forced to rent

http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/med ... on-street/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 9:03 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... isis-grows

Home ownership in England at lowest level in 30 years as housing crisis grows
Calls for government to build more homes as growing gap between earnings and house prices sees ownership fall across the country and people forced to rent

House ownership in serious decline, NHS funding shortages, job insecurity. I'm old enough to remember the 80's first time around.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 9:22 am

yahyah wrote:Nathan Gill has been told by the Ukip executive council that he can't be both a member of the Welsh Assembly and an MEP. He's threatened with having the party whip removed if he continues ''double-jobbing''.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... k-11690212" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and Wales had more rainfall yesterday than the whole of July, which was not a dry month.
Floods in the south. Hope LetsSkip is not affected.

I'm fine yahyah, thank you, only thing affected is the sodden garden and some very bored dogs.

Every year I spend a small fortune on cottage perennials, and every year they get hammered into submission by the rain, the year I don't bother you can guarantee we'll have a summer to threaten '76!

Avoiding the cut and thrust of what's going on, I skim over what's happening but that's about it. Come to the realisation there's not a lot you can do about it, things are too polarised for me at the moment, you're good or bad, with us or against us, even if by a miracle Corbyn was ever elected he would have to compromise, he would find his life long ideals stretched to breaking point, his idol Benn admitted as much when in cabinet and government, if it was as easy as some say it would have already been done.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 9:27 am

I'm old enough to remember when some of us** used this term to refer to the 'usual suspects' at political demos in the Sixties ---

( **I was one of them ...)

Invented by Peter Simple at the Torygraph, now a reality in USUK !

The Polar opposite of the YesMen .

http://www.rentacrowduk.co.uk/home/london/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anonymous Presents: Rent A Crowd '?'

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks like Mr Smith could use some help ... and surely more fun than dog-walking ?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 9:29 am

Blanchflower

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... leadership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think Stiglitz ever attended either.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 9:36 am

yahyah wrote:Morning Dan.

Was wondering if it would be worth starting two sticky threads, one for Corbyn and one for Smith where we just post straight information of their policies and campaign statements, polling results for the leadership etc.

Maybe no responses allowed there, other than to post information or links, so the sort of 'you are wrong, I'm right' that happens here doesn't get in the way of having a go-to info place to help form a view on who to vote for.

*Please note: My being unable to feel enthusiastic about either candidate, and wanting to have a non-spun resource to help make the decision, does not mean this is an anti-Corbyn or pro-Smith post.

Good idea. Done.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 9:51 am

Willow linked this yesterday, bears repeating in case anyone missed it. Search Brexit and the challenges of reality to get past the paywall.
https://next.ft.com/content/a37459ac-39 ... 1de6a61009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The competency of the British government to negotiate high-value complex commercial agreements on important matters at speed and under media pressure against unsentimental counter-parties can be summed up in three letters: PFI. The deals are disasters waiting to happen.

We certainly live in interesting times. On the one hand, the government with an overall majority and, pace the MSM, no opposition, shooting itself, not so much in the foot as in the kneecap.

On the other hand, Corbyn, personality cult or mass movement, apparently going to test something I've been wondering about all my life, the wisdom of appealing to poor people, who, again pace the MSM, don't vote.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 9:55 am

Good-morning, everyone.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 10:14 am

Thanks for the link to the article on home ownership - this is interesting too.

http://www.guardian.com/housing-network ... al-housing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Glasgow spends £8.1 Million on DHPs.

The governments' natonawide allocation of DHP funding is £150 Million for 2016/17. The money is not ring-fenced, but is apparently "earmarked" by DWP as follows - £30M for people affected by LHA caps; £40M for people subject to the benefit cap; £60M for those affected by the bedroom tax; and £20M extra based on previous HB expenditure.

Example - Birmingham has 60,000 or so council/social tenants subject to the bedroom tax across its' whole area of responsibility.
The average rate of bedroom tax there is £17PW - that's £53 Million annually.
In 2014, it spent £5 Million on DHPs, ie. all of its government allocation.
In 2015, only 21% of people who applied for a DHP were awarded one.
In 2016, its' government allocation is £3.8 Million.

If everyone in Birmingham subject to the charge paid it, the government would save circa £50 Million a year.
Multiply that across the UK, and we are talking about a lot of money.
Yet the spend on housing benefits continues to rise.
£25 billion PA - 40% of which goes to private landlords.

The housing situation in the UK is insane - buying or renting, it's a mess.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 10:16 am

Have been on a variety of demos/rallies.Not in the '60's ,unless you count the kindergarten protests of '65 against the imposition of the silly chair in the corner diktat..From CND/Miners mass ones and against education cuts to the Hardest Hit in Nottingham where there were about an hundred of us.I actually made an impromptu speech/unintelligible ramblings/gurgling noises-think a mixture of Mick Jagger,Michael Mcintyre and a scene from a Brechtian play.Certainly appreciate the polite applause,given they had no idea what I said.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 10:23 am

Can I just say that the level of political discussion and the politeness shown to posters here is light-years ahead of other forums I frequent.

Post by **adam** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 10:35 am

From the Telegraph

Labour leadership election: 40,000 registered supporters rejected

Around 40,000 people have had their applications to vote in the Labour leadership election rejected.

It is understood that tens of thousands of people have had their £25 applications to become registered supporters thrown out because they previously supported a rival party candidate, were not on the electoral register or because their payments bounced.

People who are recognised to have made racist, sexist or anti-Semitic remarks are automatically cleared off the list using Labour's central database.

And you don't get your £25 back if your application to register is rejected. I wonder if 'Anti-Semitic' includes 'Criticising Israel's policy towards the occupied territories'.

So you can't register to support the Labour party if you've previously supported another party. Just when you thought things couldn't get any more ridiculous.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 10:37 am

1.8m disabled people have unmet housing need – research

http://www.theplanner.co.uk/news/18m-di ... sing-need-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;–-research

http://www.habinteg.org.uk/latest-news/ ... rket--1042" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 10:40 am

Morning all.

Got the cat all excited when I opened a tin but sadly for her it was a tin of grapefruit not, as she plainly thought, tuna.

Good stuff from Duncan Weldon.

The Current Account as a Political & Foreign Policy Issue

https://medium.com/@DuncanWeldon/the-cu ... .9wl1okw9c

Foreign capital is sometimes very useful to the UK economy — in the car industry a combination of foreign capital investment and better management have turned the industry around.

But it also comes with costs — costs in terms of selling successful British companies, large parts of the housing market leaving British hands and potentially pressure on our foreign policy. It’s hard to “take back control” when you are as reliant on foreign money as you’ve ever been.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 10:52 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 67681.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK construction shrinks at fastest pace since 2009 after Brexit vote
Figures for July show PMI for construction industry fell to 45.9 in July from 46.0 in June

https://www.theguardian.com/business/bl ... iness-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 10:55 am

adam wrote:From the Telegraph

Labour leadership election: 40,000 registered supporters rejected

Around 40,000 people have had their applications to vote in the Labour leadership election rejected.

It is understood that tens of thousands of people have had their £25 applications to become registered supporters thrown out because they previously supported a rival party candidate, were not on the electoral register or because their payments bounced.

People who are recognised to have made racist, sexist or anti-Semitic remarks are automatically cleared off the list using Labour's central database.
And you don't get your £25 back if your application to register is rejected. I wonder if 'Anti-Semitic' includes 'Criticising Israel's policy towards the occupied territories'.

So you can't register to support the Labour party if you've previously supported another party. Just when you thought things couldn't get any more ridiculous.

I presume it is possible to appeal?

Even if accurate, that still leaves about 140k people who registered in just a few days. Not far off the total Conservative party membership.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:05 am

40,000 applications rejected but no money back?

That's a million pounds in Labour's coffers.

"Now that ain't workin' that's the way to do it
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb...."

Money for nothing.

I hope somebody sues. Disgraceful.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:16 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all. Typical that the week we finally get round to having the roof fixed, it rains more in one night than the whole of the previous month. As such, I find myself fixing the roof while the rain falls, thanks to my own decisions. I am literally doing what George Osborne did figuratively for six years.

So after being up most of the night convinced that the noises from the roof were people up there stealing my tiles (rather than, say, the wind flapping the uncovered waterproof sheets around) and suspecting that the unmistakeable patter of feet was a cloven hooved demon (rather than, say, a cat) I find myself wondering if my judgement is all it should be. I ran myself pretty ragged finishing the two novels, am way overstretched with promised work and what with Brexit and discovering that everything I believed in might be wrong, it might be a good idea if I stay away from politics for a bit. My other half says I've been snapping at her a lot, which isn't good. None of this is her fault, even if she is an immigrant. She thinks I'm getting paranoid. Well, she hasn't said anything but I know she's thinking it

So this is a kind of not posting here for a bit post but definitely not flouncing and anyway I don't have a very good record of staying away so I might not not post. Existists unite

Yeah, there are times when a break is OK. Though you might still post occasionally just to remind us that you do, indeed, exist

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:17 am

http://www.centreforwelfarereform.org/l ... truth.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Troubling Truth

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:19 am

StephenDolan wrote:Can I just say that the level of political discussion and the politeness shown to posters here is light-years ahead of other forums I frequent.

We've known each other for years. We've shared our losses and health problems with each other like family during times
of vulnerability. When I've despaired, my friends here have held me up. Sharing pain and hope with each other.

I've read some posts here I can't like or agree with sometimes. I know I've written some things others don't like or agree with.
Deeply held convictions are involved. I think we fundamentally agree about big things - fairness, equality, everyone having
opportunities living full potential but have different ideas about achieving goals.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:25 am

Why Did Vote Leave Donate £625,000 To A 23-Year-Old Fashion Student During The Referendum?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/v ... .xxRReAgAp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:25 am

http://www.chorley-guardian.co.uk/news/ ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chorley urgent care centre faces privatisation following A&E closure

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:30 am

Charity Regulator Writes To Liam Fox’s Military Charity Following Revelations
The Charity Commission confirmed it was contacting trustees of the charity Give Us Time, founded by cabinet minister Liam Fox, following revelations by BuzzFeed News.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/char ... .by75P4G46" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:34 am

Perry Beeches head Liam Nolan set to keep his job despite 'second salary' finding

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/mi ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:36 am

School reforms widen poverty gap, new research finds
New analysis of admissions data shows academy and free schools increase social segregation. Now even Toby Young thinks it’s time for change

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:37 am

ephemerid wrote:40,000 applications rejected but no money back?

That's a million pounds in Labour's coffers.

"Now that ain't workin' that's the way to do it
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb...."

Money for nothing.

I hope somebody sues. Disgraceful.

Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:39 am

#Daily television appearances and in newspaper articles.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:40 am

Dr. Chris Jones ‏@dr_chris_jones 41m41 minutes ago

#Corbyn supporters fed up with @guardian's biased reporting might like to add an AdBlocker extension to their browser. #DontBuyTheGuardian

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:41 am

#FreeUsOfTobyYoung

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:49 am

[youtube]PP_WqJTEDuE[/youtube]

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 11:51 am

Wish it was "gas" I would be a zillionaire thrice over,oops there's another fiver.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:01 pm

adam wrote:From the Telegraph

Labour leadership election: 40,000 registered supporters rejected

Around 40,000 people have had their applications to vote in the Labour leadership election rejected.

It is understood that tens of thousands of people have had their £25 applications to become registered supporters thrown out because they previously supported a rival party candidate, were not on the electoral register or because their payments bounced.

People who are recognised to have made racist, sexist or anti-Semitic remarks are automatically cleared off the list using Labour's central database.
And you don't get your £25 back if your application to register is rejected. I wonder if 'Anti-Semitic' includes 'Criticising Israel's policy towards the occupied territories'.

So you can't register to support the Labour party if you've previously supported another party. Just when you thought things couldn't get any more ridiculous.

It is the Telegraph though, so I reckon the 'around 40k' will turn out to be 'around' half that.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:11 pm

It might be a wasted question but does anyone know how 'hard' the check on prior or even current affinity with another political party is enforced?

Floating voters enthused by Corbyn or Smith are exactly who should be made involved and included in the leadership process. Even those that are 'Labour Curious' should be encouraged surely?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:14 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bradford free school fraud sparks calls for public inquiry
Teaching union demands investigation after trio leading academy praised by David Cameron are convicted of fraud

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:15 pm

So free to segregate and free to commit fraud?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:18 pm

StephenDolan wrote:It might be a wasted question but does anyone know how 'hard' the check on prior or even current affinity with another political party is enforced?

Floating voters enthused by Corbyn or Smith are exactly who should be made involved and included in the leadership process. Even those that are 'Labour Curious' should be encouraged surely?

I wonder how, or if, the Labour Party can differentiate between fifth columnists and Damescene conversions. What are the criteria?

And, if Labour goes on to claim that the non-refundable £25 goes wholly, or largely, towards paying for the checks then the thing's even more of a farce than it immediately appears.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:19 pm

StephenDolan wrote:It might be a wasted question but does anyone know how 'hard' the check on prior or even current affinity with another political party is enforced?

Floating voters enthused by Corbyn or Smith are exactly who should be made involved and included in the leadership process. Even those that are 'Labour Curious' should be encouraged surely?

Maybe the idea is to get them to pay the full membership fee to show their commitment to the party is now genuine?

(not saying I agree, but I can sort of see a logic behind it)

Good point that this "pruning" might affect Smith as well as Corbyn supporters, btw.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:51 pm

Well, well well.

What a surprise. Just check out the Smith and Corbyn threads that Dan kindly started.
Just what one might expect. Piss take and negative stuff posted on Smith's.
No one has done that on Corbyn's.

When people are so juvenile, and act so contrary to what Corbyn calls for....it's all a bit of a waste of time.

Am really not sure why either person thinks it is acceptable, other than to be bloody minded, childish and against the spirit of what was called for.

Methinks some of the criticism of Corbyn's more....err... vigorous supporters may have some truth.

Well done. You are trying to wind up people, you succeeded. Hope you feel very big.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:52 pm

Have asked Dan to delete those that clearly contradict what those threads were for.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:53 pm

Have really lost respect for you both. Which is sad.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:54 pm

Maybe best to just delete the threads Dan. Thinking people might actually respect the spirit of Corbyn was a little naive.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:59 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:
ephemerid wrote:40,000 applications rejected but no money back?

That's a million pounds in Labour's coffers.

"Now that ain't workin' that's the way to do it
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb...."

Money for nothing.

I hope somebody sues. Disgraceful.
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash

There are 40,000 ponies in Ker-Ching,
That's a fraud..