Owen Smith leadership

Post by **refitman** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 9:36 am

For articles and links relating to Owen Smith's leadership campaign.

Edited to add:

This should be used as a facts and reference depository (like the Troll Busters thread). Only post articles and facts relating to the leadership campaign that would help someone undecided vote for this candidate. I would encourage some discussion of the posts, but it should be kept on topic and not involve abuse from or about either candidate.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 1:48 pm

JUL 28
20 policies for our country

http://www.owen2016.com/blog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 1:49 pm

JUL 17
‘I want a £200billion new deal for a new generation' says Labour leadership candidate Owen Smith

http://www.owen2016.com/_i_want_a_200bi ... generation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 1:50 pm

JUL 18
Owen Smith reveals radical plans to make Britain a fairer place

http://www.owen2016.com/owen_smith_reve ... irer_place" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 1:51 pm

JUL 27
Fair funding, fair taxes and fair rights at work

http://www.owen2016.com/fair_funding_fa ... ts_at_work" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 1:52 pm

Aug 01
Socialist Health Association comes out for Owen

http://www.owen2016.com/sha_comes_out_for_owen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 1:53 pm

Aug 02
Workplace Manifesto

http://www.owen2016.com/workplace_manifesto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 2:04 pm

Sorry. But you're not supposed to be discussing on these two threads.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 5:24 pm

Owen Smith's 20 policies for a fair Labour Government:

1. A pledge to focus on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.
2. Scrapping the DWP and replacing it with a Ministry for Labour and a Department for Social Security.
3. Introducing modern wages councils for hotel, shop and care workers to strengthen terms and conditions.
4. Banning zero hour contracts.
5. Ending the public sector pay freeze.
6. Extending the right to information and consultation to cover all workplaces with more than 50 employees.
7. Ensuring workers’ representation on remuneration committees.
8. Repealing the Trade Union Act.
9. Increase spending on the NHS by 4% in real-terms in every year of the next parliament.
10. Commit to bringing NHS funding up to the European average within the first term of a Labour Government.
11. Greater spending on schools and libraries.
12. Re-instate the 50p top rate of income tax.
13. Reverse the reductions in Corporation Tax due to take place over the next four years.
14. Reverse cuts to Inheritance Tax announced in the Summer Budget.
15. Reverse cuts to Capital Gains Tax announced in the Summer Budget.
16. Introduce a new wealth Tax on the top 1% earners.
17. A British New Deal unveiling £200bn of investment over five years.
18. A commitment to invest tens of billions in the North of England, and to bring forward High Speed 3.
19. A pledge to build 300,000 homes in every year of the next parliament – 1.5 million over five years.
20. Ending the scandal of fuel poverty by investing in efficient energy.

Courtesy Huffington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/o ... 7c426e0a8d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 5:31 pm

Owen Smith's 25 workplace fairness pledges:

Strengthen collective bargaining.

1) Introduce Modern Wages Councils to cover 9 million workers in Hospitality, Retail and Social Care.
2)Provide a legal framework for voluntary sectoral collective bargaining in other sectors with universally applicable wage rates.
3)Restore full collective bargaining and end pay freezes in the public sector. National pay bargaining to continue in Health, Local government and Education and to be restored in the Civil Service – with Pay Review board decisions to be respected.

Improve collective Trade Union rights

4) Strengthen union recognition rights to provide for recognition where majority support is clear.
5)Provide mandatory access arrangements to workplaces for trade unions where requested by workers.
6) Amend law to remove unfair obstacles to industrial action, unfair time limits, and opportunities to use injunctions to obstruct democratic votes. Ensure law complies with International Labour Organisation standards.
7) End use of sweetheart unions to avoid recognition.
8) Modernise balloting with e-balloting to increase participation.
9) Repeal the Trade Union Act 2016 immediately on taking office.

Equality

10) New Equal Pay legislation to close the gender pay gap.
11)Simplify the enforcement of equality law and abolish fees for Employment Tribunals.
12)Reintroduce discrimination questionnaires and employment rights from day one to protect workers with protected characteristics including pregnant women, older and young workers and disabled workers.
13) Require publication of race equality plans for companies over a certain size.

Improve individual rights for working people

14) Employment rights from day one
15) Enhance definition of “worker” in employment law, to outlaw bogus self-employment, strengthen rights and address agency labour issues.
16)Outlaw exclusively foreign recruitment
17)Require all workers to receive a statement of rights, pay, hours, living wage and average wage
18)Outlaw Zero-hours contracts
19)Compensation for cancelled shifts.
20)Restore access to justice for workers by abolishing fees for Employment Tribunals.
21)Strengthen enforcement of National Living Wage.
22)Strengthen enforcement of Health and Safety legislation, including restoring civil liability for breach of regulations and restore health and safety protection for self employed workers.

Ensure a voice for people at work

23) Worker representation on all Remuneration Committees.
24)Information and Consultation rules to apply to companies of 50 employees.
25)With the potential demise of European Works council in larger companies, we will, if necessary, introduce Works Councils with similar powers and composition (including trade union reps where present) to all companies with over 500 employees.

Courtesy of LabourList:
http://labourlist.org/2016/08/owen-smit ... manifesto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 5:42 pm

Willow904 wrote:Owen Smith's 20 policies for a fair Labour Government:

1. A pledge to focus on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.

Courtesy Huffington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/o ... 7c426e0a8d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can't really understand how that particular one can work - or, indeed, what it actually means.

Edited to add -

I can go with "fairness" of outcome, however.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Aug, 2016 5:49 pm

Channel 4 fact checker:

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fac ... rbyn/23170" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 12:17 am

Owen Smith is to set out plans to give five million workers the biggest pay rise “for a generation”.

The Labour leadership contender will pledge to introduce a real Living Wage of £8.25 a hour, including for those aged 18-25.

Mr Smith will also promise a revolution in workers’ rights by repealing the Trade Union Act, scrapping employment tribunal fees and banning zero hour contracts.

Mr Smith will add:“In the face of this onslaught, what’s desperately needed is not more slogans, but a clear plan of action which offers solutions.

“So as the next Labour Prime Minister, I would introduce radical plans to deliver the biggest increase in living standards in a generation.

“I am committed to delivering a real living wage for everyone over the age of eighteen - ending the discrimination of those under 25.

“Increasing support for low-paid workers through our social security system - cruelly slashed by the Tories - and delivering a revolution in workers’ rights to give people a strong voice at work.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ow ... ng-8548878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:41 am

Agree with Pf's query on the pledge of quality of outcome.
Rain again today, so will spend a bit of time later seeing what I can find out and post any info or links to help understand the different issues involved.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:57 am

From the Welsh press today, Smith to 'pledge' [the paper's word] to increase the living wage from £7.20 to £8.50.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... e-11696466" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:44 am

From one news report

''In a clear signal of a shift in approach from the New Labour era Mr Smith said he would focus efforts on achieving 'equality of outcome' rather than the 'equality of opportunity' pursued under Tony Blair''

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:50 am

equality of outcome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_of_outcome" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

equality of opportunity http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/equal-opportunity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 1:30 pm

What Smith said today as opposed to what the paper this morning said he was going to say.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... leadership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure there's any point posting it on the main thread.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 1:34 pm

I think it should be posted there, given that this is a talking point right now?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 1:48 pm

I'm already regarded as an apostate !
Anyway, am logging off to wash the floor.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 4:35 pm

Owen Smith Interview: On The ‘Likelihood’ Of A Labour Split, Politics Of ‘The Street’, And A ‘Real Living Wage’
"His answer, buoyed by the defection to his camp of Corbyn’s economic advisers such as David Blanchflower and Simon Wren-Lewis, suggests he is ready to challenge the orthodoxy that Labour should accept it lost the argument on the deficit.

“There is an alternative way to look at that. Which is to say, can we really afford to leave our children with crumbling schools, without the ability to purchase their own home, with hospital waiting lists that are growing by the day, with insecurity at work, with questions as to whether it’s worth going to university because you are not going to come out of it at the end of it with a job that’s going pay off the debts that you accrue?

“These are massive questions. Can we afford to leave our kids with assets, and institutions and infrastructure that are crumbling? That’s leaving them with debts. Because unless we are never going to fix these things, somebody at some point is going to have to fix them.

“How do we look the British public in the eye and say ‘we get it, we see that there are massive problems with our economy and with infrastructure and with the social contract between citizens and the state, and we see those issues and we see why you’re angry and we see why you want to take back control. And what we are going to say to you is we’re going to be the government to do that. We are going to take back control on behalf of people. We’ve spent a lot of money floating the banks, let’s start floating the people once more.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/o ... k-politics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just one quote from a long interview, well worth reading it all - whether you agree with him or not.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:05 pm

re the standard issue face. He actually has a very Welsh male face, or at least of the males in this part of the country.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 5:13 pm

Thanks for the link it is good to have a long read.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:42 pm

yahyah wrote:re the standard issue face. He actually has a very Welsh male face, or at least of the males in this part of the country.

Didn't know there was a Welsh male face! Thanks

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 03 Aug, 2016 6:46 pm

Interview with Owen Jones

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 08 Aug, 2016 12:48 pm

This is a week or so old, from Left Foot Forward

'Owen Smith is no 'Blairite' his policies are egalitarian and left wing'
http://leftfootforward.org/2016/07/owen ... left-wing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 08 Aug, 2016 12:50 pm

& can't blame Hugo for his disdain for twits like me & Andreou who voted the way we did last time.
Mea culpa.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 08 Aug, 2016 1:02 pm

Smith's stated political positions are fine, and worthy of support. That is not why many hesitate to back him.

(not least the "Trojan Horse" argument - many rightwingers even now are making it clear he is not their ideal candidate)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 08 Aug, 2016 3:22 pm

Deleted

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 10 Aug, 2016 2:10 pm

AUG 09
Insecurity, low-pay and poor working conditions

http://www.owen2016.com/asos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 10 Aug, 2016 2:16 pm

I have completed two surveys on the leadership recently, one YouGov and one Opinium, but no signs of the results yet.

If anyone spots them, would you mind posting them here ?
Not being lazy but will be busy in the next couple of days, and may not have time to read the main daily thread.

Thanks in anticipation, and thanks for all the posts and for the spirit shown in abiding by the reason for it, to provide one place, without silly facebook stuff, or ****taking about either candidate, where info about them can be held. Easier than constantly doing searches.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 10 Aug, 2016 3:56 pm

Eleanor Garnier ‏@BBCEleanorG 5m5 minutes ago
*** BREAKING *** GMB Union backs Owen Smith for Labour leader 60% voted for Smith, 40% voted for Corbyn and 43,419 voted

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 10 Aug, 2016 4:34 pm

yahyah wrote:I have completed two surveys on the leadership recently, one YouGov and one Opinium, but no signs of the results yet.

If anyone spots them, would you mind posting them here ?
Not being lazy but will be busy in the next couple of days, and may not have time to read the main daily thread.

Thanks in anticipation, and thanks for all the posts and for the spirit shown in abiding by the reason for it, to provide one place, without silly facebook stuff, or ****taking about either candidate, where info about them can be held. Easier than constantly doing searches.

I got a huge yougov one last week & I rather suspect it was for internal use by Owen's camp. It had lots of 'does this message make you more inclined to vote for Owen, less inclined or not changed your opinion'

Fab news about GMB - good Leadership permits people to have opinions. No wonder Len never ballots his members - they might not vote for a result that best suits Len.....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 10 Aug, 2016 7:26 pm

Deleted

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 10 Aug, 2016 9:39 pm

Rob Marris was elected as Labour’s Member of Parliament for Wolverhampton South West in the 2015 General Election and was appointed as a Shadow Treasury Minister 2015 – 2016. He is a well-known local figure, who has lived in Penn Fields for the last 30 years. Born and raised and educated in Wolverhampton South West, he is a solicitor and was MP there 2001 to 2010.

"The disorganisation includes for example lateness for meetings; inability to organise events smoothly; inability to put out timely briefings; lack of replies to communications, even from Labour MPs whom he purports to lead. It shows no signs of ending. Yet this is the well-funded office of a person who aspires to run the country.

Here’s the verdict of Richard Murphy, the campaigner against tax avoidance widely described as Mr Corbyn’s “economic guru” until he became one of many of economic advisers to resign in protest at this incompetence and much more: “I had the opportunity to see what was happening inside the PLP. The leadership wasn’t confusing as much as just silent. There was no policy direction, no messaging, no direction, no co-ordination, no nothing. Shadow ministers appeared to have been left with no direction as to what to do. It was shambolic. The leadership usually couldn’t even get a press release out on time to meet print media deadlines and then complained they got no coverage.” (See: http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016 ... economics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) "

https://jodatu.wordpress.com/2016/08/10 ... ehismedia/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 12:40 am

*edit* oops, I thought I was on the Politics bit...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 6:44 am

PK@

Looks like you were right, that long poll, with detailed questions about what would influence you in voting, we both had, was a private poll for Owen Smith.

MikeSmithson@
My understanding is that the Owen Smith private polling had Corbyn markedly down on the last 56% of Labour members' poll.

We may find out soon just what 'markedly' means, or how many were sampled.
If it is a significant drop then the civil war will probably intensify. Hope to be proved wrong.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 6:49 am

Seek and ye shall find:

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... -below-50/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Less than 50% for Corbyn and a lot of don't knows. As Smithson says, it would be helpful if Owen's team show the workings of the poll.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 8:21 am

When all the union endorsements are in it'll be interesting to see how many/which made their endorsments as a result of a ballot of members or because of the leadership deciding.

GMB endorsed Smith after a ballot of members. Last year they endorsed none of the candidates.
The Musicians' Union choice of Smith was a vote by their NEC members, not sure how many there are. That reversed their previous endorsement for Corbyn.
Unite haven't balloted their members and are for Corbyn, they had a motion of support for him at conference to justify their decision.

Some interesting polling here, from last month on Corbyn's standing amongst trade unionists, but ti was taken before Smith entered the contest so no comparisons to make. And as we know polls mean nothing, it is what happens on the day

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:02 am

Please don't take this the wrong way AngryAsWell, can realise you are between a rock and a hard place because of the flak on the main thread make it difficult to post things that don't praise Corbyn, but not sure that piece by Murphy belongs on this thread because it is about Corbyn's shortcomings rather than Smith ? It is offered in the spirit of friendhip, and to stop this thread being attacked by...well I won't say who.

It's all so difficult with people getting irate and looking for offence where it doesn't exist.
Like walking on angry eggshells.

If you want it to stay because there's no where else to put it, then maybe we need to raise it on the main thread.
We can't have a leadership election and people are too scared to post anything rational about it.

Maybe a 'Gentler Politics' thread and a 'No Holds Barred' one for those who prefer a more err...robust approach ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:23 am

Via Mike Smithson too, the author blogs for Political Betting and writes for Tribune.
Interesting.

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... a-comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was pondering whether to donate to Smith's campaign but had come to think it was a waste of time/money/grief.
Reviewing the decision after reading that. Maybe not such a waste after all.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:28 am

Smithson saying Smith camp should publish private polling is being utterly ludicrous & disingenuous. No political party of whatever stripe, including his precious LibDems, publish private polling & he knows it !

Glad you didn't stay away yahyah - the Lab leadership fight is the thing I'd have thought most people using FTN would have wanted to discuss but nope, looks like yesterday was for anything BUT politics

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 9:56 am

pk1 wrote:Smithson saying Smith camp should publish private polling is being utterly ludicrous & disingenuous. No political party of whatever stripe, including his precious LibDems, publish private polling & he knows it !

Glad you didn't stay away yahyah - the Lab leadership fight is the thing I'd have thought most people using FTN would have wanted to discuss but nope, looks like yesterday was for anything BUT politics

It does have the wiff of Karl Rove style v the Tories 40/40 amend your message after your polling figures analysis.

Feel free to delete if this is in the wrong place. (perhaps that should be my signature!)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:09 am

Maybe that should be all of our signatures at the moment Stephen !

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 10:11 am

Ignore what I wrote Angry, because my post from Smithson's blog probably contravenes it as well.

I did ask if we could have a discussion about guidelines for getting through this tiresome period, maybe if someone not regarded as an apostate suggests it.

What was that old Belbin team roles thing ? We need a clarifier ?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 11:13 am

Sorry, but "private polling" is inherently suspect - even if it backs up "my" candidate

Last year both Burnham and Cooper prayed "private polling" in their aid when the public surveys showed JC heading for a big win.

(in fact, they slightly understated the scale of it)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 12:25 pm

Always the voice of wisdom Anatoly.

Just logged onto the in to check the weather report and have seen that Smith's probability is up to 12% of a win. Not looking good, but remember Remain was on 78% three days before the EU referendum.
And in 2015 Corbyn was probably on about similar to Smith at this point. Will check this afternoon when back home.

Anatoly, please can you continue to share your views on good/poor/appalling outcomes for either candidate winning ? Always appreciate your even handedness and analysis.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 5:30 pm

Christian Woolmar, who our much missed Tubby is fan of I think, has come out for Owen Smith.
Getting a lot of grief about it unsurprisingly. He is a friend of Corbyn, but says he is ''not up to the job.''

His retort to one of his critics, who said he should be ''ashamed'' probably sums up a lot of people like me, Andreou and others.
After being told he had stabbed Corbyn in the back he replied ''What is ''in the back'' about being honest with someone I actually voted for and have realised cannot do it''.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 11 Aug, 2016 7:04 pm

Deleted

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 12 Aug, 2016 8:13 am

The General Secretary of USDAW has written a new piece for Labour List.

''Owen Smith offers the best opportunity to unite the Labour party and lead us back to power''.
http://labourlist.org/2016/08/usdaw-bos ... -to-power/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;