Thursday 4th August 2016

Post by **refitman** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 7:11 am

Morning all.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 9:32 am

Morning all.

So who is watching tonight? 7pm is a bit early for me but I'm going to do my best.

I'm not interested in there being a 'winner'. Ideally, I want two positive cases put forward, not why the other is unsuitable. And if they highlight the punitive policies of the Tories under Cameron then even better.

I can dream...

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 9:58 am

I am currently travelling through central London on an over warm Boris bus. More TV crews than usual. Presumably making hay from (wild) speculation about other's misfortune. Other than that, city life as normal (seemingly).

Won't be watching tonight because I am otherwise occupied every Thursday evening. Also, given Smith's/the PLP's tactic of having as little policy difference as possible with Corbyn so the choice boils down to one of trust, perceived competence and personality, I don't expect it to be terribly enlightening in the former regard.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 10:04 am

Morning all.

As I have nothing of any interest to impart I am off to the library. With a police escort on the final bit I would imagine.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 10:36 am

Bit quiet this morning, innit?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 10:41 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

So who is watching tonight? 7pm is a bit early for me but I'm going to do my best.

I'm not interested in there being a 'winner'. Ideally, I want two positive cases put forward, not why the other is unsuitable. And if they highlight the punitive policies of the Tories under Cameron then even better.

I can dream...

Anyone know what channel its on?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 10:44 am

Good-morning, everyone.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 10:52 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

So who is watching tonight? 7pm is a bit early for me but I'm going to do my best.

I'm not interested in there being a 'winner'. Ideally, I want two positive cases put forward, not why the other is unsuitable. And if they highlight the punitive policies of the Tories under Cameron then even better.

I can dream...
Anyone know what channel its on?

Does not seem to be on any of the main channels. All I can find is that it will be streamed live on the Labour website.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 10:54 am

Maeght wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

So who is watching tonight? 7pm is a bit early for me but I'm going to do my best.

I'm not interested in there being a 'winner'. Ideally, I want two positive cases put forward, not why the other is unsuitable. And if they highlight the punitive policies of the Tories under Cameron then even better.

I can dream...
Anyone know what channel its on?
Does not seem to be on any of the main channels. All I can find is that it will be streamed live on the Labour website.

Thanks

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 10:59 am

Jo Maugham QC ‏@JolyonMaugham 6h6 hours ago
Unprecedented drop in business activity. Stand by for tax cuts for the wealthy. (http://thetimes.co.uk/article/25412ad2- ... 889134d3cc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …).

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25412 ... 889134d3cc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:00 am

More from Wren-Lewis

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2016 ... ction.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am, of course, one of those who think he should have spoken up last year.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:02 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... o-may-2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Benefit cap: number of households capped to May 2016

Presume promised CA non inclusion comes in when they reduce support even further?

Just checked states Autumn.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:02 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:I am currently travelling through central London on an over warm Boris bus. More TV crews than usual. Presumably making hay from (wild) speculation about other's misfortune. Other than that, city life as normal (seemingly).

Won't be watching tonight because I am otherwise occupied every Thursday evening. Also, given Smith's/the PLP's tactic of having as little policy difference as possible with Corbyn so the choice boils down to one of trust, perceived competence and personality, I don't expect it to be terribly enlightening in the former regard.

I think that Smith should be probed on whether he thinks the structure of the party needs to change, as Corbyn evidently desires.

And that the recent upsurge in membership is a thoroughly good thing overall, which he would attempt to maintain and build upon?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:06 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

So who is watching tonight? 7pm is a bit early for me but I'm going to do my best.

I'm not interested in there being a 'winner'. Ideally, I want two positive cases put forward, not why the other is unsuitable. And if they highlight the punitive policies of the Tories under Cameron then even better.

I can dream...
Anyone know what channel its on?

I've only ever seen it described as being shown on the Labour Party website (as others have already mentioned). Not seen any mention of any live TV screenings and I have been watching out for one. I don't even know if broadcasters are going to be present (in order that they can record, edit and run anything they feel might be of dis-service to Labour).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:06 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:11 am

Freedomofthepress wrote:So, tomorrow, August 5th is the deadline for the NEC elections. I had intentionally left it till this late in the day to vote but no new information has come to my attention to help in my decision making.

My intention is to vote for Jeremy Corbyn and Membership involved supporters but I am running short on candidates.

At present, I am persuaded by 4 but I am unsure of the other 2, who are being put forward by Momentum as they have shown slightly undemocratic attitudes, one historic and one recent. Anatoly has cast doubt in my mind re one and Ohsocynical has highlighted the other ones shortcomings.

Oh dear, time is running out and what is one to do?

I'm in the same boat (from a different start point, admittedly, but we meet in the middle).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:15 am

Vote for Eddie Izzard? At least he won't be dull

(and a reminder here that you don't have to make the full six choices if you don't want to)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:23 am

Warning highly offensive.

http://www.welfareweekly.com/jobcentre- ... hine-rant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jobcentre worker brands mum of three ‘a scrounging bastard’ in answerphone rant
Jobcentre worker accidentally leaves answerphone message.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:34 am

More than a third of UK internet users have tried 'digital detox' – Ofcom

The scale of the UK’s obsession with the internet has been laid bare by a new study showing that the ever increasing
amount of time we spend online is leading to lost sleep, neglected housework and less time spent with friends and family.

For the first time, the annual Communications Market Report from media and telecoms regulator Ofcom has delved into how
people cope with spending so much time connected, finding that more than a third of UK internet users are deciding to take
“digital detox” breaks from the web.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... etox-ofcom" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I spend too much time in front of a computer using the Internet.
If I used a smart phone or other portable device I'd be lost to the physical world entirely.

The survey also found that constantly being connected was having a negative impact on our manners. More than
a quarter said they had texted or used a messaging service to communicate with someone in the same room at home
while 40% felt they had been “smart snubbed” – ignored by a friend or relative too engrossed in their smartphone or tablet.

My friends don't do this when they're with me though they've gadgets aplenty.
My conversation must be interesting or alarming. Or, my eyesight is worse than I realise.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:37 am

It's an enhance/replacement thing.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:40 am

Good morning all.

It's been a week now since I stormed off in anger at someone here having decided to apologise to Hugo for me having called him a troll, and i have to say that it's been a very soothing week. I have, of course, been following the posting daily and it's been a lot more relaxing knowing that I am not potentially going to respond to anything that's said by either side.

Being able to be laid back allows me to observe that the two 'sides' in the Labour leadership are every bit as far away from each other as ever and that nothing anyone is saying is affecting the opinions of anyone of the other persuasion. Short of some outstanding external event, that's not going to change. There's no compromise possible. It's amusing, in a black fashion, to see people being so hot about the importance of the Labour party not breaking down into factions when anyone with half an eye can see that it already is and since every single faction wants it own way, exclusively, here is a circle that cannot be squared.

It reminds me of those not so distant old days when Blair was continually harping on the importance of unity when what he meant was that he wanted everybody else to just shut up and do what he wanted to do along.

I've stated my opinion of what should happen. Very few people agree with me and everybody's doing their damnedest to avoid going in that direction, so it's already obvious that it's not going to happen. Which means that, whatever the outcome, there'll be an urgent need for frolls of heavy duty anaglypta because these are going to be one hall of a crack to paper over.

So I'm just going to sit on the sidelines until the election is completed, and then see if there's any will whatsoever to attack the Tory Party. I doubt it very much. But it's a pleasure not to get involved in the slowly-developing disaster, especially when you have no means of affecting it at all.

Enjoy your Augusts.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:49 am

People are strange. What do you do when your potential-fireball-from-hell-in-just-a-few-minutes plane crashes?

1. Fight like a warrior to get off the plane as quickly as you can
2. Stay calm and get off in an orderly manner
3. Stop and pick up your luggage so blocking everyone else getting off and delaying your own escape

1 and 2 I can see happening but 3?

Just happened in the crash yesterday

PS. 4. Film what's happening on your smartphone.

Worse than 3. or not?

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:52 am

I received this by email yesterday :

Dear

I am emailing you with a
Notification of a Nomination Meeting
on Friday 12th August

There will be one agenda item. This is an opportunity for discussion and a nomination vote on which Leadership candidate the Constituency seeks to support.

I won't be going. I won't be voting on it - so it may not be a true reflection of..well anything really - if others are feeling as I do.
I'm not going because it's been bad enough being shouted down on local facebook pages without having to experience it face to face.

I'm expecting the constituency support vote to go to the Corbeeners - who will show up.

Our MP ( who I am more impressed with day by day ) is supporting Owen Smith. She's explained in a considered and thoughtful way just why she is doing that.
The vocal minority on social media have been all over it - rude and aggressively in some cases, leaving those of us with ,for want of a better description, more moderate views, very uncomfortable.

I'm tired of hearing 'The Membership' want this... I'm a member, I don't. I know I'm not alone in this. I am quieter, I may be shouted down or elbowed out of the way by more forceful or louder members but I still have my vote in the leadership election and will use it as I decide.

I'm in a proper grump because of this...

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 11:58 am

JonnyT1234 wrote:People are strange. What do you do when your potential-fireball-from-hell-in-just-a-few-minutes plane crashes?

1. Fight like a warrior to get off the plane as quickly as you can
2. Stay calm and get off in an orderly manner
3. Stop and pick up your luggage so blocking everyone else getting off and delaying your own escape

1 and 2 I can see happening but 3?

Just happened in the crash yesterday

PS. 4. Film what's happening on your smartphone.

Worse than 3. or not?

Marginally related but while learning to jump out of perfectly good aeroplanes many, many moons ago, some wise words of advice from my instructor, "if you can see the soles of my trainers outside the airplane at any point, you probably want to be following them there as quickly as possible."

Edit: the inference being, in case not obvious, that if he's jumped out the plane before his students, then the situation is, 'you will probably die even if you follow me, but you will definitely die if you don't'

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 12:07 pm

Great. Not satisfied with screwing me out of a pay rise for the past 6 years, the government's actions have now made what little savings I have left depreciate in value even further. And my parent's pitiful pension gets even more pitiful.

Bank rate cut to 0.25%.

Edit: it sickens me that savers - the people who aren't in debt and didn't gamble on the markets - are the ones who have ended up paying the most to save the arses of the debtors and gamblers of this world. Right bloody pissed off about that.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 12:08 pm

*Int rates cut 0.25%
*£70bn more QE (£60bn govt £10bn corp)
*£100bn “Term Funding Scheme” so banks pass cuts on

BofE doing its bit.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 12:16 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:Great. Not satisfied with screwing me out of a pay rise for the past 6 years, the government's actions have now made what little savings I have left depreciate in value even further. And my parent's pitiful pension gets even more pitiful.

Bank rate cut to 0.25%.

Edit: it sickens me that savers - the people who aren't in debt and didn't gamble on the markets - are the ones who have ended up paying the most to save the arses of the debtors and gamblers of this world. Right bloody pissed off about that.

Could be worse. It could be November when they are talking about cutting them still further.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 12:19 pm

PorFavor wrote:
JonnyT1234 wrote:Great. Not satisfied with screwing me out of a pay rise for the past 6 years, the government's actions have now made what little savings I have left depreciate in value even further. And my parent's pitiful pension gets even more pitiful.

Bank rate cut to 0.25%.

Edit: it sickens me that savers - the people who aren't in debt and didn't gamble on the markets - are the ones who have ended up paying the most to save the arses of the debtors and gamblers of this world. Right bloody pissed off about that.
Could be worse. It could be November when they are talking about cutting them still further.

There isn't the room for monetary policy to do its job. Has to be fiscal policy.

Corbyn's £500bn investment pledge today is just dumb (why not a £gazzillion?), but we need investment spending now .

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 12:43 pm

Sorry that you feel that way, RS. Things will get better eventually (both for Labour and, I expect, you personally) but it may take a while.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 12:48 pm

Mark Carney sounds depressed. He must be thinking how nice Canada is at this time of the year.

Edited to add -

Or even at any other time of the year, given the circumstances here.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 1:42 pm

http://wol.iza.org/articles/do-case-wor ... rkers%20mr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do case workers help the unemployed?

Evidence for making a cheap and effective twist to labor market policies for unemployed workers

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 1:50 pm

The story so far...I felt for a while that No 10 was using the New Schools Network to be critical of DfE edu policy by using Rachel Wolf (ex-NSN chief ad No 10 edu adviser) as a go-between.

So...Nick Timothy, ex-May SpAd in the Home Office and NSN chief gets a job in No 10. No need for a separate edu adviser now that he's there and so Wolf has left the building.

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... viser-role" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 3:34 pm

I've just been to Bletchley Park. I'm not at liberty to tell you anything about my visit.
Quiet here today innit.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 3:55 pm

What % Blairite Are You?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/w ... .hao8p8Nd1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I scored 12%

: ScreenShot01512.jpg (55.47 KiB) Viewed 10944 times

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 3:59 pm

frightful_oik wrote:I've just been to Bletchley Park. I'm not at liberty to tell you anything about my visit.
Quiet here today innit.

Yep. Looks like some are taking a breather after the recent "unpleasantness", hopefully it is only temporary.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 4:37 pm

Capita suspends assessor after disablist, racist Facebook posts, Documents show WCA suicide death mirrored 2010 tragedy, Embassy vigil ‘will show solidarity with victims of Japanese mass killings’ & Mental health charity sparks concerns after Unum link-up
http://www.shapingourlives.org.uk/resou ... ugust-2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note the guardian don't like the above link (they deleted it for breaching community standards pretty much as soon as I put it up in a disability related BTL https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... t-80546781" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

Edited: Re guardian -its back now -wondering if it disappeared as flagged/reported then was put back up after being checked

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:14 pm

Just popped in with a wildlife report for Por Favor.

Three red admirals spotted while under enforced relaxation.
First of the year, but buddleia empty, normally buzzing with them.

Saw my lovely NHS mindfulness therapist this morning, and am on strict orders to avoid my adrenaline from spiking because of the effects on the body and bp, so am avoiding politics, and will not be watching the debate.
She's been away on a training course and said that most of the mental health professionals there reported that they, and their colleagues, were feeling stressed and out of sorts, let alone their patients. She was validating my feelings by pointing out that GP referrals were up too.
Whether it is the dreadful summer, the Brexit hangover, the parlous state of politics, the terrorist events abroad, who knows ? Maybe the heady brew of it all.

Did hear a snatch of McDonnell on the radio this morning, felt rather disappointed that he did not actually deny the 'if that is what it takes comment', but am letting the feeling drift away like a butterfly.
Lesson to learn, politicians are politicians, no point getting frustrated.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:19 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:What % Blairite Are You?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahjewell/w ... .hao8p8Nd1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I scored 12%

ScreenShot01512.jpg

I scored 'Hard left, sandal and sock wearing, anti-Semitic, woman-hating, commie scum'

I'm very proud. No mention of my overall competence though.

Edit: Which is a bit weird because when I last took it in 1997, I came out as 'moderate social democrat'. My answers haven't changed since.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:37 pm

yahyah wrote:Just popped in with a wildlife report for Por Favor.

Three red admirals spotted while under enforced relaxation.
First of the year, but buddleia empty, normally buzzing with them.

Saw my lovely NHS mindfulness therapist this morning, and am on strict orders to avoid my adrenaline from spiking because of the effects on the body and bp, so am avoiding politics, and will not be watching the debate.
She's been away on a training course and said that most of the mental health professionals there reported that they, and their colleagues, were feeling stressed and out of sorts, let alone their patients. She was validating my feelings by pointing out that GP referrals were up too.
Whether it is the dreadful summer, the Brexit hangover, the parlous state of politics, the terrorist events abroad, who knows ? Maybe the heady brew of it all.

Did hear a snatch of McDonnell on the radio this morning, felt rather disappointed that he did not actually deny the 'if that is what it takes comment', but am letting the feeling drift away like a butterfly.
Lesson to learn, politicians are politicians, no point getting frustrated.

Last day of the Big Butterfly Count today I think...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:39 pm

yahyah wrote: She's been away on a training course and said that most of the mental health professionals there reported that they, and their colleagues, were feeling stressed and out of sorts, let alone their patients. She was validating my feelings by pointing out that GP referrals were up too.
Whether it is the dreadful summer, the Brexit hangover, the parlous state of politics, the terrorist events abroad, who knows ? Maybe the heady brew of it all

Its not for nothing that the Chinese meant "interesting times" as a curse, you know.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:40 pm

Before I go, I hope OhSo doesn't feel too embarrassed to come back after people telling her what they thought.

She's been under tremendous stress, as a lot of us have for various reasons, and sometimes things just go pop and you behave like a silly twit. I've been disruptive here and felt an eejit later but an apology and sharing some stuff we can all agree on usually helps. People are generally very accepting, even if it takes a while to rebuild trust.

My therapist suggested I posted that it would help if people took ownership of their feelings, and said how they felt...like ''I felt really angry when Corbyn/Smith said so and so. I can't feel faith in him, or trust him as a result.'' or ''I feel that Smith/Corbyn is a lying snivelling xxxx'' rather than ''Smith/Corbyn is a lying snivelling xxxx.

I did say to her, good luck with that if you want to try it.

I'll leave with something I read the other day. Citizen JA may be familiar with it, it's from a book with essays about ethical politics. Must say JA, Jerry Brown has some fine, and compassionate mind.
Would that we had politicians with that vision and understanding here.

Peter Coyote, American political activist, actor, director, Zen Buddhist and author wrote that one of the principles of ethical 'interconnected' politics is:

''Procedures or solutions that compromise the dignity (intrinsic worth) of one's opponent implies domination and hierarchy, not relationship. Consequently they should be excluded from the political discourse''.

Some thing I admit I certainly don't always do, but am trying to do [and failing often] is to emulate many of the posters here who put across their views and beliefs in a way that respects both the reader and the politician they may be criticising. Thank you to them, it is much appreciated.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:41 pm

@yahyah

Hello - and thanks. Nothing to report here. Buddleia still unvisited.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:42 pm

frightful_oik wrote:I've just been to Bletchley Park. I'm not at liberty to tell you anything about my visit.
Quiet here today innit.

Perhaps we've all been there today and are consequently not saying anything about it.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:47 pm

JonnyT1234 wrote:I scored 'Hard left, sandal and sock wearing, anti-Semitic, woman-hating, commie scum'

I'm very proud. No mention of my overall competence though.

Edit: Which is a bit weird because when I last took it in 1997, I came out as 'moderate social democrat'. My answers haven't changed since.

Tragedy of our age. In 1997, if Tony Blair had taken that test, he'd probably have only got 25% Blairite. By the time he left office, he scored, 'which button is it again that I press to obliterate millions of innocent people?'

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:51 pm

Shami Chakrabarti to become a Labour peer

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_2016.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think this is a farce.

1. How can she conduct an 'independent review' only to then a few weeks later accept a peerage?

2. Corbyn pledged not to create any more new peers in the leadership campaign last year.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:51 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote: She's been away on a training course and said that most of the mental health professionals there reported that they, and their colleagues, were feeling stressed and out of sorts, let alone their patients. She was validating my feelings by pointing out that GP referrals were up too.
Whether it is the dreadful summer, the Brexit hangover, the parlous state of politics, the terrorist events abroad, who knows ? Maybe the heady brew of it all
Its not for nothing that the Chinese meant "interesting times" as a curse, you know.

May everyone here suffer incredibly boring and mundane times that are as little fun as possible.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:53 pm

I lied a little, have been talking about politics in general with my old man, him talking about a book he's reading called The People's War, Britain 1939-45 by Angus Calder, first published in 1969. Being members of the university library means getting our mitts on a treasure trove of stuff like that.

There's been a lot of mention about the 1945 Labour win recently, and there was an array of reasons for it.

Calder writes about pressure from Tory constituencies, middle class ladies of the WI etc, which got fed back to government with demands for action.
When the middle and upper class households took in evacuees there was shock at finding out how poorly dressed and fed some of the children from the cities were.
String wrapped round their shoes, clothing thin and worn out. Some not taught basic life skills because their mother had so many to care for.

This pressure for help for working class families, from Tory voters, must have contributed to creating the post war consensus in some small part, and is refreshing to hear about.
What the puzzle is, of course, is how to mobilise that compassion in them now.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 5:55 pm

Four bees,three butterflies,two collared doves and no partridge in a cherry tree.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 6:01 pm

Nicely in tune too.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Thu 04 Aug, 2016 6:04 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Shami Chakrabarti to become a Labour peer

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_2016.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think this is a farce.

1. How can she conduct an 'independent review' only to then a few weeks later accept a peerage?

2. Corbyn pledged not to create any more new peers in the leadership campaign last year.

Of course Shami Chakrabarti has done absolutely nothing in her lifetime that would merit her being awarded a peerage. We don't want her sort getting that type of thing. She hasn't paid enough to a political party, for starters.