UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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citizenJA
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UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

Post by citizenJA »

Licensed cars by propulsion / fuel type, Great Britain, annually from 1994 (MS Excel Spreadsheet, 67.5KB)
Cars licensed by propulsion/fuel type, Great Britain, annually 1994 to 2014 - percentages

In 2011 Great Britain registered 30.8 diesel fuel vehicles
In 2011 Great Britain registered 68.7 petrol fuel vehicles

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... ensed-cars

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... le-veh0203
Table VEH0203
New passenger cars by type of engine fuel

In 2011 Great Britain new diesel fuel-type cars sold 948,536 thousand
In 2011 Great Britain new petrol fuel-type cars sold 924,509 thousand

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics ... _in_the_EU
In 2010, 28.9% of the passenger cars registered in Great Britain were diesel fuelled.
In 2014, 36.2% of the passenger cars registered in Great Britain were diesel fuelled.
Increasing year on year.
More diesel passenger cars were registered in Great Britain in 2011 than registered petrol fuelled passenger cars in the same year.
(see links above)
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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Review of evidence on health aspects of air pollution –REVIHAAP Project - Technical Report
The WHO European Centre for Environment and Health
WHO Regional Office for Europe
2013

The adverse effects on health of particulate matter (PM) are especially well documented. There is no evidence of a safe level of exposure or a threshold below which no adverse health effects occur. More than 80% of the population in the WHO European Region (including the European Union, EU) livesin cities with levels of PM exceeding WHO Air Quality Guidelines.

Only a slightly decreasing trend in average concentrations has been observed in countries in the EU over the last decade. Pollution from PM creates a substantial burden of disease, reducing life expectancy by almost 9 months on average in Europe. Since even at relatively low concentrations the burden of air pollution on health is significant, effective management of air quality that aims to achieve WHO Air Quality Guidelines levels is necessary to reduce health risks to a minimum. Exposure to air pollutants is largely beyond the control of individuals and requires action by public authorities at the national, regional and international levels.

Exposure to air pollutants is largely beyond the control of individuals and requires action by public authorities at the national, regional and international levels. A multisectoral approach, engaging such relevant sectors as transport, housing, energy production and industry,is needed to develop and effectively implement long-term policies that reduce the risks of air pollution to health.

In summary, positive and statistically significant short-term associations of NO2 with all-cause and cause-specific mortality have been reported in the new studies published since the 2005 global update of the WHO air quality guidelines. Robustness of the short-term NO2 associations to adjustment for particles (mainly PM10, and sometimes PM2.5 or black smoke) and other pollutants has been demonstrated in multicity studies from various geographic locations, including Europe.

http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/p ... .pdf?ua=1/
(my bold)

Unequivocally dangerous, pollution.
VW has confessed to illegally manufacturing and selling vehicles designed to by-pass lawful regulatory emissions tests for years now.
They've confessed to having lied about the amount of pollution going into the atmosphere we all have to use.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ysis-shows

Those diesels emit NO2 and small particulates, black soot.
This pollution kills people.

Current Government transport secretary Patrick McLoughlin's web page linked below includes the link to VW.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... -tax-costs
Find out more
People who are concerned their vehicle is affected can seek advice from VW.
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo
McLoughlin's response to UK owners of over 1.2 million illegally manufactured automobiles is to ask VW, the fraudulent, criminal private industry making those products, for advice about what to do.

The part in bold above quoted from the WHO European Centre for Environment and Health report again here,

"Exposure to air pollutants is largely beyond the control of individuals and requires action by public authorities at the national, regional and international levels. A multisectoral approach, engaging such relevant sectors as transport, housing, energy production and industry,is needed to develop and effectively implement long-term policies that reduce the risks of air pollution to health."

...is essential to understand in order to appreciate how helpless and afraid I am about this issue. My eyes, throat and head hurt due to current pollution levels in the UK. My husband suffers from asthma and so we both live with a compromised atmosphere, just like everyone else does, some more than others. There's a lot things making up the pollution that have caused this right now. It's not just VW emissions.

There's only one solution to a problem of this magnitude and current leadership aren't acting with sufficient promptness or vigour. That means people will die. Global leadership from government, regulatory bodies and industry have the power and authority to do something about pollution emissions and stop the suffering and death. They're responsible for the poor health and deaths due to pollution they’ve chosen to do nothing about.

I ask them to act now to lead us all into a sustainable place where people don't die because of a product sold is dangerously polluting the environment everyone depends upon.
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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PostPosted: 8 October 2015, 12:28 pm
[originally on the Daily politics thread - moved here - cJA]
Head of VW in US will tell Congress he knew of emissions rigging in early 2014

Europe’s largest carmaker is under pressure to identify those responsible for the scandal and to say how vehicles with illegal software will be fixed.
The company’s new chairman, Hans Dieter Pötsch, told a news conference in Wolfsburg:

Nobody is served by speculation or vague, preliminary progress reports. Therefore it will take some time until we have factual and reliable results and can provide you with comprehensive information.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... chael-horn
(my emphasis)

The company knowingly broke the law, has admitted it but claim factual and reliable information isn't available.
Legal counsel is probably telling VW to keep quiet but telling the global marketplace might like that even less than VW's lack of information given to the public.
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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German prosecutors raid VW offices in emissions inquiry

Police have raided Volkswagen’s headquarters in Germany as part of an investigation into the diesel emissions scandal that has rocked the company. The raids were aimed at finding “secure documents and data carriers” that could identify VW staff involved in manipulating diesel emissions tests, prosecutors in Braunschweig, Lower Saxony, said in a statement.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ns-inquiry
Posted an hour ago.
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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I'm terrified.

I watched the NOx and PM2.5 (small particulate) data from the monitor down the road and the latest data numbers being recorded stay jacked up in the hundreds while everything was green and pollution levels low and everything apparently fine but it's not though because the raw throat and aching chest tell me something different and so do the numbers in the hundreds.

http://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/data/site-da ... =last_hour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I discovered all kinds of new air pollution consultations DEFRA rushed out because UK government have until 31 December 2015 ordered by the UK Supreme Court to make the air in the Potteries and many other regions of the UK where the pollution is too high, has been too high, for decades.

I've been reading, posting and working today, like every day, and I'm tired.

This writing here is like to myself, it's not formatted properly, all the information terrifying me isn't linked in this post.
The link above will change, like temporary links to UK Parliament's Hansard record changes.
I couldn't get over the numbers so high.
And my throat is raw and my chest aches.

Mr. citizen is making cocoa now.
Thank you, anyone reading.
I'll make the thread nicer, give it continuity, make it flow into a narrative, to help anyone reading it understand why I'm terrified.
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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23 September 2015
Following reports of the Volkswagen emissions scandal, Louise Ellman MP, Chair of the Transport Committee, comments.
Further to her previous statement, Louise Ellman MP has sent a letter to the Secretary of State for Transport, Rt Hon Patrick McLoughlin MP


Chair's comment:

"I am very concerned about the potential implications for vehicles in the UK from the emerging revelations in the United States about Volkswagen and emissions testing. Action must be taken to give the public confidence in the testing regime in relation to emissions, safety, recyclability and other factors.

There are questions over whether the testing authorities commissioned by motor manufacturers are truly independent. Do the results found in test conditions truly reflect real life situations on the road? It is vital that the UK Government, the authorities in Germany and in the European Commission take action to clarify the extent to which vehicles on UK and European roads are affected by the issues that have been identified in the United States. They must take steps to restore public confidence. It should not take a crisis to make the authorities act.

There have been anecdotal reports for some time that real world performance does not match data reported by manufacturers. This gap is now subject to research and earlier this month the Committee on Climate Change was told that the growth in this gap is partly due to increased exploitation of ‘flexibilities’ in laboratory testing by vehicle manufacturers.

I will ask the Transport Select Committee to pursue this issue with Government and other relevant authorities to ensure that the public can trust the information generated by the motor vehicle testing system."

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... ent-15-16/
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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Volkswagen Group emissions violations evidence session
07 October 2015

The Transport Committee hears evidence from Volkswagen Group on the Volkswagen emissions violations that broke on 22 September 2015 and what action they are taking as a result.
Monday 12 October 2015, Thatcher Room, Portcullis House


Witnesses
At 4.30pm
Paul Willis, Managing Director, Volkswagen Group UK
Mike Hawes, Chief Executive, SMMT

At 5.15pm
Rt Hon. Patrick McLoughlin MP, Secretary of State, Department for Transport
Michael Hurwitz, Director of the Energy, Technology & International Directorate, Department for Transport
Ian Yarnold, International Vehicle Standards, Department for Transport
Paul Higgs, Chief Executive, Vehicle Certification Agency

Focus of the session
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) give evidence on the effect on the wider motor manufacturing sector. The VCA and the Secretary of State for Transport are questioned on what steps the Government is taking to restore public confidence in the vehicle type approval testing regime.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... nce-15-16/
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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Volkswagen Group emissions violations one-off session
Transport Committee

Oral evidence session announced.

Scope of the evidence session

This one-off evidence session provides Members with an opportunity to question Volkswagen Group, the SMMT, the VCA and the Secretary of State for Transport on the Volkswagen emissions scandal that broke on 22 September 2015.

Next meeting(s)
12 October 2015 | 4:30 PM
Volkswagen Group emissions violations
Location
The Thatcher Room, Portcullis House


Witness(es): Paul Willis, Managing Director, Volkswagen Group UK Mike Hawes, Chief Executive, SMMT Rt Hon Patrick McLoughlin MP, Secretary of State, Department for Transport Paul Higgs, Chief Executive, Vehicle Certification Agency Michael Hurwitz, Director of the Energy, Technology and International Directorate, Department for Transport Ian Yarnold, International Vehicle Standards, Department for Transport

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... ons-15-16/
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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Transport Committee
Monday 12 October 2015
Meeting starts at 4.30pm
Channel: 9
House: Commons
Thatcher room
Select committee


Agenda
Subject: Volkswagen Group emissions violations

Witness: Paul Willis, Managing Director, Volkswagen Group UK, and Mike Hawes, Chief Executive, SMMT
Witnesses: Rt Hon Patrick McLoughlin MP, Secretary of State, Department for Transport, and Vehicle Certification Agency. McLoughlin MP, Secretary of State, Michael Hurwitz, Director of the Energy, Technology and International Directorate, Ian Yarnold, International Vehicle Standards, Department for Transport, and Paul Higgs, Chief Executive, Vehicle Certification Agency.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/20 ... cdc8d31ed6
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin has highlighted the importance of protecting UK consumer interests in the wake of the admission by VW on its use of defeat devices at a meeting of European transport ministers in Luxembourg (8 October 2015).
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin:

"The needs of consumers must be at the forefront of action to restore public confidence in emissions testing. I have made it clear to Volkswagen that we expect it to support UK owners of vehicles fitted with defeat device software. The UK government has already announced that owners in Britain will not incur higher vehicle taxes as result of VW’s actions. There now needs to be co-ordinated European work to establish trust in the testing process.

As I highlighted to the Transport Council, driving emissions tests that reflect real-world performance must be introduced as quickly as possible. In the meantime, I can confirm that the UK has now started its own testing programme. This will get to the bottom of what the situation is for VW Group cars in the UK and ensure we understand the wider implications for other car types to give all consumers certainty. I have also today repeated my call for a Europe-wide investigation into the use of ‘defeat devices’, in parallel to the work we are doing in the UK.

The UK will initially re-test Euro 5 category diesel cars previously type-approved by VCA that VW group has confirmed contain ‘defeat device’ software. This re-testing will involve both laboratory and real-world elements. These measurements will be used as a benchmark for further testing, with the final programme to be developed. Details of continuing UK government action have been published."

He continued to press the European Commission to introduce real-world driving emissions tests as soon as possible.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tran ... el-testing
I'm disappointed the first paragraph wasn't the second I've put into bold and emphasised.
We're not consumers first and foremost.
We're human beings requiring safe air to breathe.
I've no confirmation at this time McLoughlin's words above reflect action taking place.
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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Thank you for all of this, @cJA. It's deeply worrying and I know how distressing it is to endure the effects of filthy air.

I'd like to see a demand that VW (and all the other manufacturers who have cheated on emissions tests) provide a solution that brings all the affected vehicles within the legal emissions limits, either by fitting some device/after-solution or by replacing the affected vehicles/parts with ones which comply with legislation within a short period of time - eg., one year to fit after-solution, five years to replace all vehicles or their engine-and-exhaust systems. I'd suggest that the manufacturers also make a proportionate contribution to any fines levied on EU states for exceeding pollutant limits/clean-air-legislation in the meantime. I've got a feeling that a lot more manufacturers are going to be found out, too.
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Stephen Hammond):

I am pleased to announce today the next phase of the project to explore establishing a new commercial model for the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA).

Departments have been challenged to think about how they commission and deliver services with a view to looking at innovative options. We have looked at the VCA business model and have tested a range of options that would enable the business to grow and contribute to the wider UK economy while continuing to deliver its statutory functions, providing high-quality and valued services to its customers. We set out this proposition for consultation in the motoring services strategy late last year. The new commercial model should also seek to offer new opportunities to VCA staff, who will be essential to the continued success of the business going forward.

The Department for Transport is now going to start a market engagement exercise to further test the preferred option of a joint venture with a private sector partner. We expect to make a decision in the autumn on whether to proceed with a formal procurement.

- 11 July 2013

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... htm_spmin2
Stephen Hammond, Tory MP for Wimbledon, celebrating making a business out of a regulatory agency entrusted to safeguard the public by ensuring products adhere to emissions limits, among other things.
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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LadyCentauria wrote:Thank you for all of this, @cJA. It's deeply worrying and I know how distressing it is to endure the effects of filthy air.

I'd like to see a demand that VW (and all the other manufacturers who have cheated on emissions tests) provide a solution that brings all the affected vehicles within the legal emissions limits, either by fitting some device/after-solution or by replacing the affected vehicles/parts with ones which comply with legislation within a short period of time - eg., one year to fit after-solution, five years to replace all vehicles or their engine-and-exhaust systems. I'd suggest that the manufacturers also make a proportionate contribution to any fines levied on EU states for exceeding pollutant limits/clean-air-legislation in the meantime. I've got a feeling that a lot more manufacturers are going to be found out, too.
Oh, my dear!
Apologies for not seeing your post sooner!
I thought I was largely writing to myself.
I needed some place to 'publish' my concerns.

Thank you so much for reading here, the poor work I've made of it.
It's not my area of expertise, but pollution and sickness associated with poor air quality is a subject I've come to study.

I'm flabbergasted at the lack of response from government and regulatory bodies regarding this issue.
What is VW still doing in business?
Why does VW still have their doors open for business?
I wish no unemployment on the people working for the auto industry but we've got to look at the bigger picture.
How can VW, a fraudulent, criminal, auto-manufacturer remain open for business given their crime?

It's getting late and I'd best leave the post here for now.

xx
cJA
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

Post by LadyCentauria »

You're creating a very useful set of resources here, @cJA. I'm flabbergasted, too, at the response to what is a very serious situation which will have long repercussions. Newsnight had a segment on a study done by a Spanish medical research team led by Professor Jordi Sunyer at the Centre for Research in Environmental Epidemiology in Barcelona. They found that children whose schools were in the most polluted areas (out of 29 local primary schools) showed clear developmental differences in the left hemisphere of the brain. Practical learning tests and reaction tests showed a distinct pattern of cognitive limitation and lowered response times to visual and auditory stimuli with slowed physical reaction, too. The affected children also had attention deficits and heightened levels of frustration and anger. The same team mapped greater levels of various forms of age-related dementias within the seniors population in the most polluted areas, too. See Newsnight 12/10/2015 from 28 minutes in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... t-12102015
His profile page at CREAL, with selected publications:
http://www.creal.cat/creal/quisom/en_in ... ri=jsunyer

And to think 'we' (the country) thought we'd solved things by removing lead from petrol!

Edit to correct 'who' to 'whose'
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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VW Emissions
Thursday 15 October, Wilson Room, Portcullis House
At 9.30am approx

Witnesses
Mike Hawes, CEO, The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders Ltd (SMMT)
Paul Willis, MD, Volkswagen Group UK

...on Thursday 15 October the Committee questions representatives from VW and the motor industry about the air quality implications of the emissions testing scandal.
The second hearing will build on the work of the Transport Select Committee who examined the testing regime for new vehicles.

Chair's comment
Huw Irranca-Davies MP, Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee:

"Toxic air pollution from traffic is contributing to thousands of deaths in the UK every year, so the cheating of car emissions tests is of grave concern. Questions remain about the impact of VW’s actions on the UK’s air quality and the Government’s policy on cleaner transport."

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... ion-15-16/
Huw Irranca-Davies is an honourable, capable man.
I like him personally, but that's an aside.
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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From the USA Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) website:
News Releases from Headquarters
EPA Update on Recent Volkswagen Announcement
Release Date: 09/25/2015

Last Friday, EPA sent a Notice of Violation of the Clean Air Act to Volkswagen AG, Audi AG, and Volkswagen Group of America, Inc. alleging that four-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi diesel cars from model years 2009-2015 include software that circumvents EPA emissions standards. These cars contain software that turns off emissions controls when driving normally, and turns them on when the car is undergoing an emission test. Known as a “defeat device,” this design feature results in the cars emitting up to 40 times the amount of NOx emissions that the standards allow. NOx standards are in place to ensure public health is protected.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.ns ... enDocument
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released a letter sent to vehicle manufacturers notifying them that the agency is adding to its confirmatory testing additional evaluations designed to look for potential defeat devices.

View the letter here:
http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm

EPA’s notice of violation, along with an In-Use Compliance Letter that the California Air Resources Board issued, provide information and details relating to the VW violations:
View a pdf of the Notice of Violation here:
http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents ... -18-15.pdf

View the California Air Resources Board’s In-Use Compliance Letter here:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/in_use_co ... letter.htm

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.ns ... enDocument

USA vehicle models affected by the illegal emissions equipment:
Affected diesel models include:

Jetta (MY 2009 – 2015)
Jetta Sportwagen (MY 2009-2014)
Beetle (MY 2012 – 2015)
Beetle Convertible (MY 2012-2015)
Audi A3 (MY 2010 – 2015)
Golf (MY 2010 – 2015)
Golf Sportwagen (MY 2015)
Passat (MY 2012-2015)


http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

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From United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) website:
Frequently Asked Questions (updated September 30, 2015)

My children have asthma. Is it safe for them to ride in a VW?
Yes.
The excess NOx emissions would not be expected to enter the passenger compartment, and the emissions from a single vehicle are not the primary concern.
However, while individual vehicles don’t create a health threat, collectively these emissions add up to air pollution that can cause adverse health effects.


What happened?
In September 2015, EPA issued a Notice of Violation of the Clean Air Act to Volkswagen for producing and selling four-cylinder diesel cars that include a sophisticated software device that circumvents EPA emissions standards for certain air pollutants.
EPA and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) have collaborated on testing these cars and have determined that vehicles on the road emit up to 40 times more pollution than emission standards allow.


What vehicles are affected?

What should I expect if I own an affected Volkswagen or Audi diesel vehicle?
As the owner of an affected Volkswagen diesel vehicle, it is likely that you will receive a recall notice in the future.
This notice will come from Volkswagen.
It will provide you with information about the recall and with instructions about how to get your car repaired at no cost to you.


Can I continue to drive my vehicle?
Yes.
These cars are safe and legal to drive.
Owners do not need to take any action at this time.


Will EPA take or confiscate my vehicle?
Absolutely not.
EPA will not confiscate your vehicle or require you to stop driving.
You will not be charged for any repairs made under any recall.


Can EPA require Volkswagen to recall these vehicles?
Yes.
EPA has the authority under section 207 of the Clean Air Act to require a manufacturer to issue a recall when EPA determines that a substantial number of vehicles do not conform to EPA regulations.


Is EPA officially requiring Volkswagen to issue a recall now?
No.
EPA expects to compel VW to issue a recall in the future to reduce the emissions impacts of these vehicles.
Owners will be notified of that recall once Volkswagen and Audi have developed a remedial plan and EPA has approved the plan.
Manufacturers are given a reasonable amount of time to develop a plan to complete the repairs, including both the repair procedure and manufacture of any needed parts.
Depending on the complexity of the repair and the lead time needed to obtain the necessary components, it could take up to one year to identify corrective actions, develop a recall plan, and issue recall notices.


Will I be required to have my vehicle repaired once it is recalled?
That depends.
Some states require proof that emissions recalls have been performed prior to issuing the vehicle registration.
Even in states that do not have this requirement, it is important to have emissions recalls performed because without the repairs, your vehicle may be emitting harmful pollutants in excess of the federal emission standards.
You are not responsible for repair costs related to an emissions recall.


I live in an area that requires periodic emissions tests. What happens if my car fails?
It is unlikely that the presence of this device will cause your vehicle to fail.
In fact, the defeat device was specifically designed to ensure that vehicles would pass inspection.
The defeat device has been installed in the affected VW diesels since 2009.
To date, EPA has no indication of any pattern failures with these vehicles during inspection and maintenance emission tests.


How much will this cost to fix?
Volkswagen will be required to implement corrective action at no cost to the owner.

Can I turn off the defeat device?
No.
The device is embedded in the software code that runs the engine control computer.


What pollutants are being emitted?
Vehicles emit an array of pollutants.
EPA standards control the allowable emission levels of nitrogen oxides (NOx), hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, particulate matter, and certain toxic chemicals.
The VW defeat device affects the way the NOx control system operates, resulting in higher NOx emission levels from these vehicles than from vehicles with properly operating emission controls.


How much more pollution is being emitted than should be?
NOx emission levels are 10 – 40 times higher than emission standards.

Is this contributing to bad air quality in my city/area?
All vehicles emit some pollution that, along with emissions from other sources, affects local air quality.
Vehicles with high emission levels have a disproportionate impact.
EPA emission standards are designed to protect local air quality and maintain clean and healthy air.
The VW diesels with the defeat device do not comply with EPA emission standards.


Where can I get more information?
For more information please send an email to otaq@epa.gov or visit the California Air Resources Board website.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/homepage.htm

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm
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Re: UK Air Pollution Emissions, Fraud & Effects on Health

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Where are you, cJA?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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