Whether you cut spending or raise taxes, it still dampens growth which affects everyone. McDonnell would do better to steer clear of the economics and stick with the theme of Tory ideological cuts to the welfare state, because that's what they are and always were, the deficit was just an excuse. Indeed, it's vital that the welfare state and our ability to sustain it is de-coupled from fiscal policy altogether and returned to the realm of a fundamental pillar of civilised society as opposed to an optional extra to be dumped every time the economy hits a little bump in the road.Womble44 wrote:It's not 'gibberish' it's quite possible to oppose austerity as it's understood in common parlance (spending less on public services) and still understand you can't just do what you want. Ultimately it means tax rises, which in economic terms may have the same impacts on consumer spending etc, but it's a very different demographic that has to cut back.SpinningHugo wrote:Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... discipline
Maybe this will play well politicallly, I don't know, but economically I'm not sure it makes much sense. Surely the thing he is pledging, fiscal consolidation, is the same as the thing as he is condemning, fiscal austerity?!
One assumes by "austerity" he really means spending cuts, but the commitment to reducing the deficit suggests tax rises and although there are advantages to doing it that way, it's still austerity with many of the drawbacks. Unless he's just talking about borrowing to invest in an attempt to grow the economy, in which case it would be better not to bring fiscal consolidation into it as it just confuses things. Well, it confuses me, anyway.
It is gibberish.
Not that it matters as i dont think people are listening to what Labour is saying, because nobody thinks will ever matter.
They might be wrong of course (see Trump) but I dont think it likely
i really don't think you understand why you were wrong about Trump. Try stopping the passive aggressive asides, and you might convince more people to listen to you. Insulting those that disagree with you is poisonous to constructive dialogue.
Tuesday 15th November 2016
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
@womble
It was to myself. A memo to self. For helping to create this mess by the way I voted in the leadership election in 2015 despite warnings from good souls like LetsSkip and many others who don't post on here any more.
You don't have to rise to it, or sit down to or stand to it. Ignore it.
It was to myself. A memo to self. For helping to create this mess by the way I voted in the leadership election in 2015 despite warnings from good souls like LetsSkip and many others who don't post on here any more.
You don't have to rise to it, or sit down to or stand to it. Ignore it.
Last edited by yahyah on Tue 15 Nov, 2016 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Womble44 wrote:But there isn't; the budget needs to be controlled.yahyah wrote:It was rather odd to see McDonnell use the say there is ''no money tree''.
That's a phrase that's been used by a million right wingers to attack Labour since 2010.
That is not the point I was making. It was his use of the language of right wingers.
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
There's a bottle of ale on the kitchen trolley I've been looking at with interest since coming back from a walk in the drizzle. I'm anxious, my head and eyes ache.tinybgoat wrote:I'm trying to convince myself that Labour could be positioning themselves as the guardian of the true spirit of brexit, ready to point out how Tories are betraying the peoples will..
but sadly it's not working.
Beverages may be needed.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
The way I see it is that Philip Hammond will shortly be giving the magic money tree a mighty big shake in his budget (infrastructure spending, etc). IOW, he's preparing the ground for an attack.
Donald Trump: Making America Hate Again
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Yes, thought provoking. I need to ponder it a little.PorFavor wrote:Do read it. (It's by Zoe Williams, by the way.)The dangerous fantasy behind Trump’s normalisation
Boris Johnson has urged people to ‘snap out of the doom and gloom’. Yet this situation is not normal. Convincing ourselves the president-elect doesn’t mean everything he says is a fantasy that stops us seeing Trumpism for the barbarism it is (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -barbarism
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
No, it's a passive aggressive statement to say that people that disagree with you are fooled by a charlatan and need to learn the lessons that you have. If it's entirely for your consumption it does not need to be posted on a public forum.yahyah wrote:@womble
It was to myself. A memo to self. For helping to create this mess by the way I voted in the leadership election in 2015 despite warnings from good souls like LetsSkip and many others who don't post on here any more.
You don't have to rise to it, or sit down to or stand to it. Ignore it.
Last edited by Womble44 on Tue 15 Nov, 2016 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Willow904
The point is, if we are going to dampen growth through cut backs, them direct the cuts at those that can afford it.
The point is, if we are going to dampen growth through cut backs, them direct the cuts at those that can afford it.
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
And my point is that the austerity ship has long sailed. Opposing what your opposite number has already dumped is pointless. The Tory attacks on the welfare state are political, not economic, so fight them politically.Womble44 wrote:Willow904
The point is, if we are going to dampen growth through cut backs, them direct the cuts at those that can afford it.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Have we had this?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... footer-nav" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At least Starmer has ensured Labour is unequivocal on this, and on the right side of the argument from my perspective. Also allowing Ed Miliband to land a proper blow on the government:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... footer-nav" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
God, he's a calamity, isn't he?Britain probably leaving EU customs union, says Boris Johnson
At least Starmer has ensured Labour is unequivocal on this, and on the right side of the argument from my perspective. Also allowing Ed Miliband to land a proper blow on the government:
Ed Miliband, the former Labour leader, said Johnson’s apparently unscripted intervention on the customs union was a sign of the government’s disarray. “With impeccable timing, Boris Johnson now says the UK is ‘probably’ leaving the customs union, thereby proving the Brexit chaos that No 10 is denying,” he said.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
love,
cJA
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
@citizenJA
Goodnight!
Goodnight!
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/t ... mg00000005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theresa May Responds To Leaked Brexit memo
Theresa May Responds To Leaked Brexit memo
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
pathetic.Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said that Labour would not seek to prevent or delay Brexit, labeling those trying to do so as being "on the side of certain corporate elites".
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Nice.citizenJA wrote:There's a bottle of ale on the kitchen trolley I've been looking at with interest since coming back from a walk in the drizzle. I'm anxious, my head and eyes ache.tinybgoat wrote:I'm trying to convince myself that Labour could be positioning themselves as the guardian of the true spirit of brexit, ready to point out how Tories are betraying the peoples will..
but sadly it's not working.
Beverages may be needed.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
https://diem25.org/what-is-diem25/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Diem25 - pan European democratic movement. Anyone know anything about it/them?
Diem25 - pan European democratic movement. Anyone know anything about it/them?
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
If only spitting image were still on.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... iser-purge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Donald Trump’s transition to the White House appeared to be in disarray on Tuesday after the abrupt departure of a top national security adviser and amid continuing questions over the role of his three children and son-in-law.
Former Republican congressman Mike Rogers stepped down from the president-elect’s transition team without explanation, but one report attributed it to a “Stalinesque purge”.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-la ... e-37989040" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Labour MP Cat Smith cleared of improper expenses claim
Labour MP Cat Smith cleared of improper expenses claim
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Anger As Health Minister Refuses To Rule Out Future NHS Charges
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/a ... 8d11a6b1da" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ironic as I've been spending quite a lot of time trying to work out how to chose a private consultant to fix my hiatus hernia that is now giving me all kinds of problems, not least GORD which is either not responding to meds (H2RAs) or the meds (PPI) make me so ill with vertigo that I cant risk driving, and walking across the room is a hazard.
My Doctor tells me this operation is no longer available on the NHS so to me it sort of looks like we are already being charged by the back door, as in - pay private or suffer.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/a ... 8d11a6b1da" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ironic as I've been spending quite a lot of time trying to work out how to chose a private consultant to fix my hiatus hernia that is now giving me all kinds of problems, not least GORD which is either not responding to meds (H2RAs) or the meds (PPI) make me so ill with vertigo that I cant risk driving, and walking across the room is a hazard.
My Doctor tells me this operation is no longer available on the NHS so to me it sort of looks like we are already being charged by the back door, as in - pay private or suffer.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
tremendous - in so many ways.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... is-johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Britain probably leaving EU customs union, says Boris Johnson
Foreign secretary makes revelation in interview with Czech newspaper despite PM’s hope of keeping negotiating stance under wraps
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
It's like being constantly observed by the three witches from Macbeth accompanied a bunch of their mates.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
- tinyclanger2
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
What a ####ing fiasco this whole ludicrous bunch of nonsense is.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18986.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theresa May dealt fresh blow as Supreme Court judge signals major delay on starting Brexit
Lady Brenda Hale said a “simple Act of Parliament” may not be sufficient to start the process, arguing a 'comprehensive replacement' of a 1972 Act may be needed
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18706.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Brexit vote 'not legally binding' says Supreme Court judge
Lady Hale is one of the Supreme Court judges hearing the Government's appeal against the legal challenge to Brexit next month
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Yes it's a wonderful opportunity to turn the country into a hate-filled cesspit.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 19111.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit vote driving anti-LGBT hate crime as victims told: ‘You’re next’
Charity records hate crimes explicitly mentioning Brexit vote alongside large rise
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18451.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David Cameron 'charging £120,000 per hour for speeches on Brexit'
The fee equates to £2,000 per minute
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Slightly below what I charge,to be fair.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Ken Clarke: Brexit Cabinet in ‘Mickey Mouse’ land, too preoccupied with headlines
Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/pol ... t-reality/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/pol ... t-reality/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Am thinking of charging say 200,000 per hour for public seething.
Why not?
Why not?
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Opposition Day Debate tomorrow
ESA /Social Care
http://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/ ... 1/16/Daily" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ESA /Social Care
http://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/ ... 1/16/Daily" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
And Thursday Backbench ESA( partly)
http://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/ ... 1/17/Daily" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/ ... 1/17/Daily" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Another senior lawyer quits child abuse inquiry
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37994878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What is going on...??
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37994878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What is going on...??
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/a ... 3145f9ebd0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Human Rights Act Defence Adverts ‘Too Political’ For Train Commuters, Network Rail Decides
Human Rights Act Defence Adverts ‘Too Political’ For Train Commuters, Network Rail Decides
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Womble44 wrote:No, it's a passive aggressive statement to say that people that disagree with you are fooled by a charlatan and need to learn the lessons that you have. If it's entirely for your consumption it does not need to be posted on a public forum.yahyah wrote:@womble
It was to myself. A memo to self. For helping to create this mess by the way I voted in the leadership election in 2015 despite warnings from good souls like LetsSkip and many others who don't post on here any more.
You don't have to rise to it, or sit down to or stand to it. Ignore it.
Quite happy to be aggressive aggressive.
You were duped.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-la ... e-37989040
Labour MP Cat Smith cleared of improper expenses claim
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaThe claims were made by blogger Guido Fawkes - real name Paul Staines - who alleged that "anomalies" raised questions about Ms Smith's spending.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Yeah purposefully didn't mention his part in it and let people(if they didn't already know)find out themselves.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Something weird has happened to the page(for me anyway),think something to do with hysterical laughter.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
Comment from Quaker Social Action on the articld about Funeral Paymentz/Social Fund
"Thank you everyone who is tweeting and commenting to share their stories. Every day we see people struggling with the confusing and lengthy process of applying for a Social Fund Funeral Payment. No one in any kind of work can apply - even people on a zero hours contract.
46% of applicants are rejected and responses often take more than a month, leaving people in financial limbo. Certain benefits that don't immediately qualify for help include Carers' Allowance, Disability Living Allowance and a Basic State Pension. It's a very lonely place to be.
The Funeral Payment was originally designed to cover basic funeral costs but today it leaves people with 63% of the bill. The fund has not increased but funeral costs went up 87% in a decade.
Our colleagues have the time and knowledge to quickly assess whether someone should apply, which is why 100% of people we supported recently made a successful claim. For those who cannot make a claim, our team work very hard to find other avenues of support.
"Thank you everyone who is tweeting and commenting to share their stories. Every day we see people struggling with the confusing and lengthy process of applying for a Social Fund Funeral Payment. No one in any kind of work can apply - even people on a zero hours contract.
46% of applicants are rejected and responses often take more than a month, leaving people in financial limbo. Certain benefits that don't immediately qualify for help include Carers' Allowance, Disability Living Allowance and a Basic State Pension. It's a very lonely place to be.
The Funeral Payment was originally designed to cover basic funeral costs but today it leaves people with 63% of the bill. The fund has not increased but funeral costs went up 87% in a decade.
Our colleagues have the time and knowledge to quickly assess whether someone should apply, which is why 100% of people we supported recently made a successful claim. For those who cannot make a claim, our team work very hard to find other avenues of support.
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Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A more succinct summing up of Farage, the cuddly face of a racist.
A more succinct summing up of Farage, the cuddly face of a racist.
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ovement-euAngela Merkel hints Brexit talks could include wriggle room on free movement
I don't think that sounds like much wriggle room, even for the slipperiest of Tories.But on the finer detail of defining the free movement of people, she added: “I personally am of the view that we will have to discuss further with the [European] commission when this freedom of movement applies from.”
Merkel said that if, for example, someone came to Germany from eastern Europe and worked only for a short time but acquired a lifelong claim on welfare benefits, “then I see a question about which we must talk again. Free movement applies to me in the sense that the employee himself earns the money he needs for himself and his family in the other member state.”
Re: Tuesday 15th November 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... mmigration
Brexit camp tried to toxify debate before referendum, MPs hear
Campaigners accuse Boris Johnson and Arron Banks of fuelling rise in hate crimes by stoking tensions over immigration