Nicola Sturgeon (@NicolaSturgeon)
One last point - if PM thinks we won't know terms of Brexit by autumn next year, she must think her own timetable will fail.
March 16, 2017
(Politics Live, Guardian)
Thursday 16th March 2017
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Sometimes the Graun "long reads" aren't really worth your time reading, but today's - about what will happen when Brenda finally goes to the royal palace in the sky, its possible fallout and what it says about us as a country - is certainly an exception. And well worth a look it you haven't seen it already.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
I don't think she cares.AnatolyKasparov wrote:...does May want to be the PM who saw its demise any more than Cameron did?
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
The gospel according to Saint Theresa.
"And, more than that, I think it would not be fair to the people of Scotland because they’d be being asked to take a crucial decision without the necessary information, without knowing what the future partnership will be or what the alternative of an independent Scotland would look like"
Does this remind you of anything? Say something that happened around June last year.
We ,of course had all the necessary information then didn't we!
"And, more than that, I think it would not be fair to the people of Scotland because they’d be being asked to take a crucial decision without the necessary information, without knowing what the future partnership will be or what the alternative of an independent Scotland would look like"
Does this remind you of anything? Say something that happened around June last year.
We ,of course had all the necessary information then didn't we!
Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Seems vaguely familiar. Oh, go on. Put me out of my misery . . .ScarletGas wrote:The gospel according to Saint Theresa.
"And, more than that, I think it would not be fair to the people of Scotland because they’d be being asked to take a crucial decision without the necessary information, without knowing what the future partnership will be or what the alternative of an independent Scotland would look like"
Does this remind you of anything? Say something that happened around June last year.
We ,of course had all the necessary information then didn't we!
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
May has a point. If the issue of leaving the UK is that it's screwed up its relationship with its main market, then there's a case that you need to see the final relationship it will have with its main market.
When Cameron held the EU referendum our relationship with the EU wasn't up in the air.
Think Sturgeon is over reaching here. What if May were to announce a Customs Union position was her policy just before the referendum? Ruth Davidson would hammer her. "Not even leaving our main market! See! SNP only care about one thing"
When Cameron held the EU referendum our relationship with the EU wasn't up in the air.
Think Sturgeon is over reaching here. What if May were to announce a Customs Union position was her policy just before the referendum? Ruth Davidson would hammer her. "Not even leaving our main market! See! SNP only care about one thing"
Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Wouldn't she (Sturgeon) just claim that May was responding to pressure of the referendum, and that it was a canny move to exert leverage?Tubby Isaacs wrote:May has a point. If the issue of leaving the UK is that it's screwed up its relationship with its main market, then there's a case that you need to see the final relationship it will have with its main market.
When Cameron held the EU referendum our relationship with the EU wasn't up in the air.
Think Sturgeon is over reaching here. What if May were to announce a Customs Union position was her policy just before the referendum? Ruth Davidson would hammer her. "Not even leaving our main market! See! SNP only care about one thing"
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Leverage over May within the UK. That's not really an argument for leaving.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
If Sturgeon gets her referendum, I wouldn't expect her to win. None of the big questions raised in 2014 have been answered and with the price of oil plummeting, the economic prognosis is considerably worse. The fact that 60% of Scottish voters voted for the UK to stay in the EU is irrelevant. In or out of the UK, Scotland will still be out of the EU. (It seems to me to be illogical to vote to remain in the EU but not in the UK).Tubby Isaacs wrote:Leverage over May within the UK. That's not really an argument for leaving.
If May blocks it, the Unionists (55% in 2014) are surely going to be satisfied. Why would any of them throw a hissy fit at not getting a referendum they don't want?
May could, of course, allow a referendum, gambling that there will be another 'no' vote that would effectively finish Sturgeon as FM.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -functions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Correspondence
Tower Hamlets intervention: return of functions
Correspondence
Tower Hamlets intervention: return of functions
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
I think there's some mileage for Sturgeon in "the facts have changed". An SNP-Labour coalition wasn't impossible then. Nobody expects Labour to be near UK government soon. Plus Brexit of course.Eric_WLothian wrote:If Sturgeon gets her referendum, I wouldn't expect her to win. None of the big questions raised in 2014 have been answered and with the price of oil plummeting, the economic prognosis is considerably worse. The fact that 60% of Scottish voters voted for the UK to stay in the EU is irrelevant. In or out of the UK, Scotland will still be out of the EU. (It seems to me to be illogical to vote to remain in the EU but not in the UK).Tubby Isaacs wrote:Leverage over May within the UK. That's not really an argument for leaving.
If May blocks it, the Unionists (55% in 2014) are surely going to be satisfied. Why would any of them throw a hissy fit at not getting a referendum they don't want?
May could, of course, allow a referendum, gambling that there will be another 'no' vote that would effectively finish Sturgeon as FM.
Did you see Richard Murphy? Unpleasant, unevidenced post that the GERs are a load of rubbish based on devious/incompetent union statisticians in London. Unpleasant Nats lapping it up. And Murphy lapping them up.
I've complained to UK Stats about it.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
I think they'll skip the first 3 years, and attack you for not sorting the schools etc.Mhairi Hunter
@MhairiHunter
Tories! We're starting #Scotref campaigning in May. If you want it to go on for 4 years instead of 18 months that's up to you.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Can't see an SNP-Lab coalition working, personally. The SNP aren't known as the Tartan Tories for nothing!Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think there's some mileage for Sturgeon in "the facts have changed". An SNP-Labour coalition wasn't impossible then. Nobody expects Labour to be near UK government soon. Plus Brexit of course.Eric_WLothian wrote:If Sturgeon gets her referendum, I wouldn't expect her to win. None of the big questions raised in 2014 have been answered and with the price of oil plummeting, the economic prognosis is considerably worse. The fact that 60% of Scottish voters voted for the UK to stay in the EU is irrelevant. In or out of the UK, Scotland will still be out of the EU. (It seems to me to be illogical to vote to remain in the EU but not in the UK).Tubby Isaacs wrote:Leverage over May within the UK. That's not really an argument for leaving.
If May blocks it, the Unionists (55% in 2014) are surely going to be satisfied. Why would any of them throw a hissy fit at not getting a referendum they don't want?
May could, of course, allow a referendum, gambling that there will be another 'no' vote that would effectively finish Sturgeon as FM.
Did you see Richard Murphy? Unpleasant, unevidenced post that the GERs are a load of rubbish based on devious/incompetent union statisticians in London. Unpleasant Nats lapping it up. And Murphy lapping them up.
I've complained to UK Stats about it.
Scotland will be out of the EU, either as an independent country or as part of the UK, so, unlike Sturgeon, I don't see that the facts have really changed - at least as far as Brexit is concerned. This leaves a choice of either sharing any UK-negotiated trade deals as part of the UK or trying to go it alone. I know which I prefer.
You may be interested in the analysis of Murphy's arguments here:
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
This makes me so angry i can't even be bothered being angry any more.ScarletGas wrote:The gospel according to Saint Theresa.
"And, more than that, I think it would not be fair to the people of Scotland because they’d be being asked to take a crucial decision without the necessary information, without knowing what the future partnership will be or what the alternative of an independent Scotland would look like"
Does this remind you of anything? Say something that happened around June last year.
We ,of course had all the necessary information then didn't we!
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Martin Rowson on a deflating week for Trump and the European right
Martin Rowson on a deflating week for Trump and the European right
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Yeah, I saw Kev have a go back. Good man.Eric_WLothian wrote:Can't see an SNP-Lab coalition working, personally. The SNP aren't known as the Tartan Tories for nothing!Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think there's some mileage for Sturgeon in "the facts have changed". An SNP-Labour coalition wasn't impossible then. Nobody expects Labour to be near UK government soon. Plus Brexit of course.Eric_WLothian wrote: If Sturgeon gets her referendum, I wouldn't expect her to win. None of the big questions raised in 2014 have been answered and with the price of oil plummeting, the economic prognosis is considerably worse. The fact that 60% of Scottish voters voted for the UK to stay in the EU is irrelevant. In or out of the UK, Scotland will still be out of the EU. (It seems to me to be illogical to vote to remain in the EU but not in the UK).
If May blocks it, the Unionists (55% in 2014) are surely going to be satisfied. Why would any of them throw a hissy fit at not getting a referendum they don't want?
May could, of course, allow a referendum, gambling that there will be another 'no' vote that would effectively finish Sturgeon as FM.
Did you see Richard Murphy? Unpleasant, unevidenced post that the GERs are a load of rubbish based on devious/incompetent union statisticians in London. Unpleasant Nats lapping it up. And Murphy lapping them up.
I've complained to UK Stats about it.
Scotland will be out of the EU, either as an independent country or as part of the UK, so, unlike Sturgeon, I don't see that the facts have really changed - at least as far as Brexit is concerned. This leaves a choice of either sharing any UK-negotiated trade deals as part of the UK or trying to go it alone. I know which I prefer.
You may be interested in the analysis of Murphy's arguments here:
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/
A Westminster Coalition with the SNP-Lab in it could have been on the cards in 2014, I think.
UK negotiated deals are going to be worse than EU negotiated ones for Scotland, I think. But there are still problems to overcome, and they're much the same as before.
Did you see this?
I reckon the Tories would be delighted to have 3 years of letting the SNP bang on about independence.Mhairi Hunter
@MhairiHunter
Tories! We're starting #Scotref campaigning in May. If you want it to go on for 4 years instead of 18 months that's up to you.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
I would have thought Ms Hunter's immediate priority might be the upcoming LG elections.Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think they'll skip the first 3 years, and attack you for not sorting the schools etc.Mhairi Hunter
@MhairiHunter
Tories! We're starting #Scotref campaigning in May. If you want it to go on for 4 years instead of 18 months that's up to you.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Where would a transitional UK-EU deal leave the SNP? It might not be too bad, provided the EU are satisfied there aren't too many Wilders types with chances in general elections. Not easy to persuade people to leave the UK, if so.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Nobody will notice - it's what the SNP do all the time.Tubby Isaacs wrote: I reckon the Tories would be delighted to have 3 years of letting the SNP bang on about independence.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
I suspect the SNP are hoping to get in before any inkling of a deal - so they can campaign on a hypothetical Brexit result.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Where would a transitional UK-EU deal leave the SNP? It might not be too bad, provided the EU are satisfied there aren't too many Wilders types with chances in general elections. Not easy to persuade people to leave the UK, if so.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Shelter Scotland told the UK and Scottish Governments off today.
Don't they understand that when your priority is council tax freezing and universal freebies, you can't afford to do more for housing?
Don't they understand that when your priority is council tax freezing and universal freebies, you can't afford to do more for housing?
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
That's exactly what they're trying. But controlling the timing as the UK government do, is an advantage. They can pop up with as soft a Brexit they can get away with in their party, and catch the SNP out. I don't yet buy that it's a gift to Sturgeon that the Scottish Parliament could be blocked from holding a referendum exactly when it wants.Eric_WLothian wrote:I suspect the SNP are hoping to get in before any inkling of a deal - so they can campaign on a hypothetical Brexit result.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Where would a transitional UK-EU deal leave the SNP? It might not be too bad, provided the EU are satisfied there aren't too many Wilders types with chances in general elections. Not easy to persuade people to leave the UK, if so.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Something to miss:
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... h-bake-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Noel Fielding and Sandi Toksvig to host new Great British Bake Off
New presenters will join new judge Prue Leith and Bake Off stalwart Paul Hollywood in the Channel 4 version of the show
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
The Netherlands' GreenLeft "Jessiah"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ition-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Something of a throwback to classic 1970s Dutch ideals of openness and radicalism, Klaver has a Moroccan father and a mother of Indonesian descent. The far-right populism of Geert Wilders, rather than Muslim immigration, is the real threat to Dutch culture and traditions, he has repeatedly said.
Properly leftwing parties in Europe had to fight the rise of the far right by standing up for their ideals, he said on Wednesday.
“What I would say to all my leftwing friends in Europe: don’t try to fake the populace,” he said. “Stand for your principles. Be straight. Be pro-refugee. Be pro-European. We’re gaining momentum in the polls. You can stop populism.”
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Don't forget the SNP conference this weekend. A "nasty English Tories blocking the will of the Scottish people" gripe for the acolytes.Tubby Isaacs wrote:That's exactly what they're trying. But controlling the timing as the UK government do, is an advantage. They can pop up with as soft a Brexit they can get away with in their party, and catch the SNP out. I don't yet buy that it's a gift to Sturgeon that the Scottish Parliament could be blocked from holding a referendum exactly when it wants.Eric_WLothian wrote:I suspect the SNP are hoping to get in before any inkling of a deal - so they can campaign on a hypothetical Brexit result.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Where would a transitional UK-EU deal leave the SNP? It might not be too bad, provided the EU are satisfied there aren't too many Wilders types with chances in general elections. Not easy to persuade people to leave the UK, if so.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
He's overdoing it a bit for a guy who came 6th, but I do applaud the sentiments.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Surely she wouldn't do a May and talk herself into trouble high on conference buzz.Eric_WLothian wrote:Don't forget the SNP conference this weekend. A "nasty English Tories blocking the will of the Scottish people" gripe for the acolytes.Tubby Isaacs wrote:That's exactly what they're trying. But controlling the timing as the UK government do, is an advantage. They can pop up with as soft a Brexit they can get away with in their party, and catch the SNP out. I don't yet buy that it's a gift to Sturgeon that the Scottish Parliament could be blocked from holding a referendum exactly when it wants.Eric_WLothian wrote: I suspect the SNP are hoping to get in before any inkling of a deal - so they can campaign on a hypothetical Brexit result.
Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
There is much too much assumption here that electorates are reasonable and rational people who will make sensible decisions.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Too late - she (Sturgeon) wrote herself into trouble when she put another referendum in the SNP manifesto.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Surely she wouldn't do a May and talk herself into trouble high on conference buzz.
Edited to add:
The situation could be saved quite easily by the Greens voting against the minority SNP government in Holyrood. But I doubt whether they will.
Last edited by Eric_WLothian on Thu 16 Mar, 2017 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
There is much too much assumption that governments are reasonable and rational people who will make sensible decisionsadam wrote:There is much too much assumption here that electorates are reasonable and rational people who will make sensible decisions.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
So says Michael Crick. Really?By the 90s, New Labour – flush with money under Tony Blair – were the big transgressors. Indeed, I remember doorstepping Blair over the amount of money spent in the Wirral South byelection. I later learned it was around £500,000, about 50 times the legal limit.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
Dana SchwartzVerified account @DanaSchwartzzz 21h21 hours ago
More
Trump supporters probably so conflicted because you can't blame the Hawaii judge on Obama being born there when Obama was born in Kenya
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
FWIW
UC Household Types as of December 2016
Single 354,128 :
Single,child 38,875
Couple 4,719
Couple ,child 12,746
Housing Element No 243,372
Yes 167,101
UC Household Types as of December 2016
Single 354,128 :
Single,child 38,875
Couple 4,719
Couple ,child 12,746
Housing Element No 243,372
Yes 167,101
Last edited by HindleA on Fri 17 Mar, 2017 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday 16th March 2017
http://www.mealsonwheelsamerica.org/nat ... -blueprint" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MEALS ON WHEELS AMERICA STATEMENT ON BUDGET BLUEPRINT
MEALS ON WHEELS AMERICA STATEMENT ON BUDGET BLUEPRINT