My emphasis.Willow904 wrote:I didn't get to the end of Owen Jones' "why we must support leave" piece. Does he actually support leaving the single market? Or is it all about how a poorly drafted and implemented referendum trumps all other democracy and negates our democratic right to oppose? Because I'm not an MP. I didn't promise to implement the result of the referendum. Many people, like Jeremy Corbyn, refused to accept the decision to join the Common Market and campaigned tirelessly against it. So why should I be denied the same right? It's one thing to support leaving and giving positive reasons for it, rather another to tell people they have to support it just because other people voted for it. Other people voted to keep FPTP, do I have to support that too? Or can I continue to support efforts to introduce PR? I get that by voting for the referendum MPs put themselves in an impossible situation, but I have little sympathy. They didn't have to support David Cameron's flawed referendum. They are stuffing up our country and I'm not going to stop being angry about it just because a majority voted for it. A majority voted to keep the party that introduced the bedroom tax in power too. I'm not about to support that either. I see no good reasons for the bedroom tax and I see no good reasons to leave the EU. At the very least I want to stay in the single market. Owen Jones needs to come up with something better than "there is no alternative" to change minds. Telling people he agrees leaving the EU is a bad idea but people are being unreasonable by opposing it is a little bit desperate IMO.SpinningHugo wrote:I see Owen Jones is arguing why "as a Remainer" he has to accept Hard Brexit (ie leave the single market).
I don't really believe him
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... urosceptic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Still, I am sure we need to stop all those Poles coming over here "wholesale" and "destroying" our jobs.
"Wholesale".
I don't think anyone is telling you to do anything are they?
But the bit I've highlighted is revealing to me. Because I voted Remain without a moment's hesitation, yet think we should respect the Referendum result. Not least because it seems to me to be the best hope of staying in. Owen Jones is the same. Other posters here are too. But we don't seem to figure in your view of the situation.
There is no more inconsistency in this view than one where you believe the right thing to do is to try and reverse a referendum result.
As many posters here keep reminding us, these are both crap places to be. Let's not bicker about which crap way forward is best, when most of us want to end up in more or less the same place.
The mistake has been made. Everyone here knew it was a bad idea. Nobody has a monopoly of wisdom on how best to deal with it.