Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Cheers.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... gotiations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Observer view on Theresa May and the shambolic Brexit negotiations
Observer editorial
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... gotiations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Observer view on Theresa May and the shambolic Brexit negotiations
Observer editorial
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Minority governments are easy to wound, but much harder to kill
Andrew Rawnsley
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... er-to-kill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Andrew Rawnsley
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... er-to-kill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
The pursuit of pleasure is a modern-day addiction
Robert Lustig
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -addiction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Robert Lustig
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -addiction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Are there? Who?AnatolyKasparov wrote:Unbelievably, some Centrist Dads moaning that people will be able to join as late as October and vote.HindleA wrote:https://labourlist.org/2017/09/timetabl ... ur-leader/
Timetable Unveiled For New Scottish Labour Leadership Contest
Hat tip - if you ever want to make a comeback within Labour, stop treating enthusiastic and committed new members as the enemy.
Maybe they will learn, eventually.
I find it hard to believe there are many old Blairites left. They, like me,have left.
The "new" right of the Labour party are the old soft left. Basically anyone who voted for Owen Smith. They now find the!selves in the position of the Blairites a decade ago.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Good morfternoon.
By the way - I don't find myself in the position of the Blairites a decade ago.
By the way - I don't find myself in the position of the Blairites a decade ago.
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Again, the inference I am making stuff up is not terribly appreciated.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/pages/ ... ction-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
And in actual fact my impression is that most of the 4.5% tendency have remained in the party - the belief "their time will come again" is still (surprisingly?) strong.
Several of those who left, moreover, did so because they fell for the hype about a shiny new "centrist" party emerging to save them. Given this is looking less rather than more likely as time passes, I wouldn't be surprised to see some trickling back to Labour in the coming months and years.
Several of those who left, moreover, did so because they fell for the hype about a shiny new "centrist" party emerging to save them. Given this is looking less rather than more likely as time passes, I wouldn't be surprised to see some trickling back to Labour in the coming months and years.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... udi-arabia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
British arms sales to repressive regimes soar to £5bn since election
British arms sales to repressive regimes soar to £5bn since election
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... es-barnierThere is no Brexit ‘punishment’, apart from the self-inflicted one
William Keegan
William Keegan back on form (he went a bit off the boil for a couple of articles, in my opinion, merely repeating the same stuff).
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
What can we do about it?AnatolyKasparov wrote:And in actual fact my impression is that most of the 4.5% tendency have remained in the party - the belief "their time will come again" is still (surprisingly?) strong.
Several of those who left, moreover, did so because they fell for the hype about a shiny new "centrist" party emerging to save them. Given this is looking less rather than more likely as time passes, I wouldn't be surprised to see some trickling back to Labour in the coming months and years.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Good-morning, everyone
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Sorry, about what?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
The Brexit view from abroad:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 5b8ead4007" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 5b8ead4007" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Centrist Dads complaining about new Labour party membersAnatolyKasparov wrote:Sorry, about what?
Blairites in Labour
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
I don't mind as long as they behave - Labour being a broad church is one of its major strengths and always has been.
Its when people act in bad faith that the problems arise.
Its when people act in bad faith that the problems arise.
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Good morning
Thoughts with those in South Florida today.....and all those on the islands who have been affected. I only hope that events of the last month will show the US that engaging with attempts to limit the effects of climate change should be accelerated, not slowed down
On the 'Blairites' in Labour etc - they are welcome to be members and put their case forward in my view - FPTP necessitates political parties to have have a broad swathe of opinions
There are a number of reasons why I find them difficult to engage with though
1. Their assumption that the Labour victory was only down to Blair and a move rightwards - the Labour Party were well ahead under Smith as well, and Blair actually ran in his early days on a programme that was quite different to where he is now
2. The Labour Government did many good things from 1997-2010 but they also presided over the excesses of the financial sector and paid little attention to the stagnation of wages and the increase in asset prices
3. A number of MPs from the right wing of the party were too happy to echo the Tory mantra post 2010 and blame excess public spending for the impact of the financial crash rather than where the true blame lied - we are seeing the same errors repeated now, in part because the Labour Party allowed these mistruths to become 'fact'.
4. Too many Labour MPs were sympathetic to the basis of austerity and believed in the flawed economic principles that backed up Thatcherism and Reaganism
5. Too many threw their toys out of the pram when Miliband and Corbyn were elected - because they couldn't accept that the party was changing
6. This wing of the party still has too much power over the party institutions which has allowed them to suspend and expel members with far too little evidence - I hesitate to use the words 'witch hunt' but these same people are only too happy to use it to describe possible deselection of candidates when at the same time they have presided over real expulsions of members
7. Trying to facilitate the undemocratic removal of a leader - first by instigating the most pathetic attempt at a coup and then by trying to remove him from the ballot when he was challenged
8. Using the extreme right-wing media outlets to attack the Labour Party and its policies - including that most despicable of Murdoch-owned rags!
So they are welcome to stay and welcome to argue their point of view - what I would say is that I, and many members of the party, think they are wrong and they should work on persuasion rather than the tactics we have seen in the last couple of years
If we take Brexit as an example, the party is moving in a direction that is more acceptable to those who supported Remain. This was not achieved by crying to the press or calling for people to resign. It was done by the use of discussion and the influence of people like Starmer and other members of the Shadow Cabinet putting forward reasoned arguments.
Jess Phillips may like the sound of her own voice and think herself very influential but how many people do you think she convinces with her self-centred rants in right-wing newspapers - or, in fact, her sharing the stage (after complimenting) an extreme right-wing would-be 18th century right-wing toff?
Thoughts with those in South Florida today.....and all those on the islands who have been affected. I only hope that events of the last month will show the US that engaging with attempts to limit the effects of climate change should be accelerated, not slowed down
On the 'Blairites' in Labour etc - they are welcome to be members and put their case forward in my view - FPTP necessitates political parties to have have a broad swathe of opinions
There are a number of reasons why I find them difficult to engage with though
1. Their assumption that the Labour victory was only down to Blair and a move rightwards - the Labour Party were well ahead under Smith as well, and Blair actually ran in his early days on a programme that was quite different to where he is now
2. The Labour Government did many good things from 1997-2010 but they also presided over the excesses of the financial sector and paid little attention to the stagnation of wages and the increase in asset prices
3. A number of MPs from the right wing of the party were too happy to echo the Tory mantra post 2010 and blame excess public spending for the impact of the financial crash rather than where the true blame lied - we are seeing the same errors repeated now, in part because the Labour Party allowed these mistruths to become 'fact'.
4. Too many Labour MPs were sympathetic to the basis of austerity and believed in the flawed economic principles that backed up Thatcherism and Reaganism
5. Too many threw their toys out of the pram when Miliband and Corbyn were elected - because they couldn't accept that the party was changing
6. This wing of the party still has too much power over the party institutions which has allowed them to suspend and expel members with far too little evidence - I hesitate to use the words 'witch hunt' but these same people are only too happy to use it to describe possible deselection of candidates when at the same time they have presided over real expulsions of members
7. Trying to facilitate the undemocratic removal of a leader - first by instigating the most pathetic attempt at a coup and then by trying to remove him from the ballot when he was challenged
8. Using the extreme right-wing media outlets to attack the Labour Party and its policies - including that most despicable of Murdoch-owned rags!
So they are welcome to stay and welcome to argue their point of view - what I would say is that I, and many members of the party, think they are wrong and they should work on persuasion rather than the tactics we have seen in the last couple of years
If we take Brexit as an example, the party is moving in a direction that is more acceptable to those who supported Remain. This was not achieved by crying to the press or calling for people to resign. It was done by the use of discussion and the influence of people like Starmer and other members of the Shadow Cabinet putting forward reasoned arguments.
Jess Phillips may like the sound of her own voice and think herself very influential but how many people do you think she convinces with her self-centred rants in right-wing newspapers - or, in fact, her sharing the stage (after complimenting) an extreme right-wing would-be 18th century right-wing toff?
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Short article - but to the point.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-millionsIf only all we middle-aged Brits had Philip Hammond’s millions
Barbara Ellen (Guardian)
Last edited by PorFavor on Sun 10 Sep, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
acting in bad faith, liarsAnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't mind as long as they behave - Labour being a broad church is one of its major strengths and always has been.
Its when people act in bad faith that the problems arise.
they're not trustworthy
everyone has the capacity for integrity unless they're sick in the head
when their word is thrown away, they've lost their treasure
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Edited my above post to add the word "article".
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Anyway, we had Blair saying this morning that we could "stop Brexit" if we got tough on immigration - and his faithful parrot Adonis (who was seemingly under the impression no party leader had ever gone on to become PM after losing an election, until corrected by lots of people on Twitter) echoing him.
Some might ask "if we have to do that, what's the point?"
(worth pointing out, too, that when the likes of Corbyn McDonnell or even Starmer say free movement will end with Brexit they don't necessarily mean the same thing)
Some might ask "if we have to do that, what's the point?"
(worth pointing out, too, that when the likes of Corbyn McDonnell or even Starmer say free movement will end with Brexit they don't necessarily mean the same thing)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
"...people of low estate have a trick of reasoning as indifferently as they live, and doubtless would appreciate our Poor Law more philosophically on an income of ten thousand a year."
- Charles Dickens
Our Mutual Friend
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
I read that - seems to be living in a fantasy land as it seems to be predicated on the old leaver argument that they need us more than we need them so they will change all their rules just to suit us - only difference he is talking about keeping us in and they are talking about the future trade dealAnatolyKasparov wrote:Anyway, we had Blair saying this morning that we could "stop Brexit" if we got tough on immigration - and his faithful parrot Adonis (who was seemingly under the impression no party leader had ever gone on to become PM after losing an election, until corrected by lots of people on Twitter) echoing him.
Some might ask "if we have to do that, what's the point?"
(worth pointing out, too, that when the likes of Corbyn McDonnell or even Starmer say free movement will end with Brexit they don't necessarily mean the same thing)
Again an example of his complete and utter inability to take any responsibility. One thing you can say that Blair was in his time as PM it was promoting immigration and reducing immigration controls (removing exit checks, or no transition period for new accession countries for example) - you can argue whether he was right to wrong to do that but for him to now do a volte face is a bit rich
That is why I have come to despise Blair - not so much for what he did in office (apart from Iraq) but his total hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness he has shown since he left office. Does he not know how much he is held in contempt?
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... ce-auctioncitizenJA wrote:Speaking of Charles Dickens, this may interest you -"...people of low estate have a trick of reasoning as indifferently as they live, and doubtless would appreciate our Poor Law more philosophically on an income of ten thousand a year."
How guest Hans Christian Andersen destroyed his friendship with Dickens
The Danish writer’s behaviour on an extended visit killed the authors’ friendship, letters show
(Guardian)
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
There's a profound revulsion in the UK of giving everyone an ID card like other EU nations do to accurately tally who's in and out of the country(-ies). I respect that reluctance. Hell if I know what to do.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
@PorFavor
Published today! Good find.
Some authors' lives are more interesting to me than others.
I'd love to come across the letters Cassandra Austen was said to have burned when Jane was gone.
I'd promise not to tell a soul what they contained if I thought I could keep my word but I can't so never mind.
Published today! Good find.
Some authors' lives are more interesting to me than others.
I'd love to come across the letters Cassandra Austen was said to have burned when Jane was gone.
I'd promise not to tell a soul what they contained if I thought I could keep my word but I can't so never mind.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
A Florida sheriff has advised people not to shoot at the hurricane as this could backfire. (Guardian)
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Saw the new memorial, in Winchester 2 weeks ago,citizenJA wrote:@PorFavor
Published today! Good find.
Some authors' lives are more interesting to me than others.
I'd love to come across the letters Cassandra Austen was said to have burned when Jane was gone.
I'd promise not to tell a soul what they contained if I thought I could keep my word but I can't so never mind.
opposite the house, Jane Austen spent her last days.
Heard a lady bemoaning to a friend (on being asked about his well being) that her son was at Harrow, but hating it, despite the £30k fees & it made her question the point of it all.
Seemed a bit inappropriate, seeing the wording of the memorial.
- Attachments
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- tmp-cam--1093465852.jpg (214.84 KiB) Viewed 21104 times
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
take every opportunity giving 'patience' a more fascinating name“‘You are in a melancholy humour and fancy that anyone unlike yourself must be happy. But remember that the pain of parting from friends will be felt by everybody at times, whatever be their education or state. Know your own happiness. You want nothing but patience; or give it a more fascinating name: call it hope.'”
- Jane Austen
from, Sense & Sensibility
(Mrs. Dashwood speaking to Edward Ferrars)
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
my having lived in different places taught me firearm usage during extreme events isn't universally acknowledged standard procedurePorFavor wrote:A Florida sheriff has advised people not to shoot at the hurricane as this could backfire. (Guardian)
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Well, I did wonder. Whatever prompted this rather bizarre exhortation?citizenJA wrote:my having lived in different places taught me firearm usage during extreme events isn't universally acknowledged standard procedurePorFavor wrote:A Florida sheriff has advised people not to shoot at the hurricane as this could backfire. (Guardian)
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... er-to-kill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Minority governments are easy to wound, but much harder to kill
Andrew Rawnsley
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
'kill it! kill it! kill it!'
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Rawnsley -Willow904 wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... er-to-kill
Minority governments are easy to wound, but much harder to kill
Andrew Rawnsley
He didn't mention the Tory plan taking legislative oversight out of the House of Commons with government’s European Union Withdrawal BillEvery legislative idea will be subject to a pitiless assessment by the government’s business managers of the prospects of squeaking it through parliament.
The quality of the proposal will matter a whole lot less than the whips’ cold-eyed calculus of whether it might be at risk of a defeat. Good ideas will fall by the wayside along with the rotten ones. Many decisions will simply go unmade. Three months into the life of this government and civil servants are reporting that much of Whitehall is already paralysed by the combination of Brexit and ministers who daren’t chance votes in parliament.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Have a good night, everyone
love,
cJA
love,
cJA
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
http://institute.global/news/eu-migrati ... cy-choices" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -kingmaker" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Norway goes to the polls with the future of its oil and gas industry in play
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ed-to-know" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Norway goes to the polls with the future of its oil and gas industry in play
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ed-to-know" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/el ... /id456636/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The main features of the Norwegian electoral system
Election Day is fixed by the King to a Monday in September, usually in one of the first two weeks of the month.
(By the time I work it out,it will time for the next one)
The main features of the Norwegian electoral system
Election Day is fixed by the King to a Monday in September, usually in one of the first two weeks of the month.
(By the time I work it out,it will time for the next one)
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://leftfootforward.org/2017/09/fra ... rd-brexit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Frances O’Grady: Unions will have to change – but they will always be essential
Frances O’Grady: Unions will have to change – but they will always be essential
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://www.tuc.org.uk/tuc-congress-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.tuc.org.uk/watch-tuc-congress-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Live coverage/agenda
https://www.tuc.org.uk/watch-tuc-congress-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Live coverage/agenda
Last edited by HindleA on Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Finally found out where the chicken lasagne and boiled potatoes people have been tweeting about came from:
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tion-night" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tion-night" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Of far more interest in the article is the fact that both Labour and the Tories were not expecting a hung parliament, which kind of suggests that the key voters that shaped the outcome had a voter profile that neither party had really focussed on or talked to. It's odd that May didn't consider how calling a snap election would torpedo what was arguably her only strength, which was the perception of being a safe pair of hands. Which takes us back to the question of why did she risk an election she didn't need to call. Sure, the numbers looked good, but still. There has been some fascinating raking over the coals of the disastrous Tory election campaign lately, but none of it really takes me any closer to understanding what May was hoping to achieve, either by triggering article 50 in March - something she was quite adamant on for no obvious reason - or by holding an election directly after it was triggered.Crosby told the senior advisers, who had gathered to discuss the party’s strategy over a meal of chicken lasagne and potatoes: “By the way, mate, it’s not about being the change candidate, it’s about doing what people want.”
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... s-complain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Schools abandon exclusion of sixth-formers
Schools abandon exclusion of sixth-formers
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Chicken lasagne and potatoes?
That's just wrong...
That's just wrong...
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
The general reaction was very much along the lines of "Can Theresa May not get anything right?!"RogerOThornhill wrote:Chicken lasagne and potatoes?
That's just wrong...
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
TUC Congress backs staying in the single market for at least as long as Brexit transition - and potentially permanently
“The UK should seek a transitional period after leaving the EU in March 2019. This is a pragmatic solution, and recognises that the government’s criminal lack of preparation means that a good Brexit deal cannot be achieved by March 2019.
“The simplest option to minimise disruption across all sectors of the economy, is for the current arrangements to continue with the UK remaining a member of the single market and customs union during the transition period.
“This will protect tariff-free, barrier-free frictionless trade with the EU as well as protecting workers’ existing rights and making sure the UK benefits from any further EU rights introduced during this period.”
“The UK should seek a transitional period after leaving the EU in March 2019. This is a pragmatic solution, and recognises that the government’s criminal lack of preparation means that a good Brexit deal cannot be achieved by March 2019.
“The simplest option to minimise disruption across all sectors of the economy, is for the current arrangements to continue with the UK remaining a member of the single market and customs union during the transition period.
“This will protect tariff-free, barrier-free frictionless trade with the EU as well as protecting workers’ existing rights and making sure the UK benefits from any further EU rights introduced during this period.”
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41200958" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Disabled child travel cuts 'force parents to work less'
Disabled child travel cuts 'force parents to work less'
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
Not just potatoes, but plain boiled potatoes apparentlyRogerOThornhill wrote:Chicken lasagne and potatoes?
That's just wrong...
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
And that's 6000 posts up for meeeeee
![Dance :dance:](./images/smilies/Dance.gif)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
I know someone who likes (beef) lasagne with plain boiled potatoes and very boiled cabbage.RogerOThornhill wrote:Chicken lasagne and potatoes?
That's just wrong...
That's wrong, too.
Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... s-complain
Schools abandon exclusion of sixth-formers
This country has gone insane. I mean, a C is a pass, surely? Even a D can count for a university course (I should know!). A friend struggled to scrape passes in sciences when she could have got better grades at other subjects because she needed them to study medicine. She's now a GP. A blooming good one too. How did schools get so far away from what they are supposed to be for? Who gives a crap if someone gets a C at A level if they go on to get a 1st at uni? Stupid trophy-hunting heads who only give a toss about their own vanity, that's who.“The school is ‘guiding’ children to continue with subjects where they will preferably get an A grade,” said the parent of one girl who was told she couldn’t continue A-level chemistry.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th September 2017
You could match that with a 600th Thank if you really wanted toAnatolyKasparov wrote:Not just potatoes, but plain boiled potatoes apparentlyRogerOThornhill wrote:Chicken lasagne and potatoes?
That's just wrong...![]()
And that's 6000 posts up for meeeeee
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)