Wednesday 20th September 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Wednesday 20th September 2017
Morning
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/2017/09/ ... care-cuts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
‘Decisions are being taken out of our hands’ – social workers on care cuts
More than two-thirds of social workers responding to Community Care's survey said they were expected to cut care packages for vulnerable adults because of budget pressures within their council
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 55941.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Elderly and disabled people driven to self-harm amid ‘drastic decline’ in social care funding under Tories
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/2017/09/ ... gets-2017/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How ‘personal’ are personal budgets in 2017?
Although the Care Act placed legal force behind personal budgets, responses to Community Care’s survey suggest they are not offering the choice to recipients that was intended
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/2017/09/ ... care-cuts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
‘Decisions are being taken out of our hands’ – social workers on care cuts
More than two-thirds of social workers responding to Community Care's survey said they were expected to cut care packages for vulnerable adults because of budget pressures within their council
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 55941.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Elderly and disabled people driven to self-harm amid ‘drastic decline’ in social care funding under Tories
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/2017/09/ ... gets-2017/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How ‘personal’ are personal budgets in 2017?
Although the Care Act placed legal force behind personal budgets, responses to Community Care’s survey suggest they are not offering the choice to recipients that was intended
Last edited by HindleA on Wed 20 Sep, 2017 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2017/09/uncar ... ong-right/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
An uncaring indifference to wrong and right
Giles Peaker
"The government is – at least misleading if not outright dishonest – about the scale of the problem. As the report notes (para.1.6). The DCLGs “measures of homelessness do not capture its full extent”. It simply ignores those who are only kept off the street owing to the charity of friends of family. The UK Statistics Authority has, since December 2015, been telling the DCLG that this is not good enough but as recently as February 2017, the DCLG was issuing press releases which perpetrated this misleading (if not dishonest) distinction"
"One of the major forces driving the increase in homelessness is the huge spike in the number of people needing help once their ASTs have ended (para.1.15 et seq). The NAO asked local authorities about this and in “all cases” (emphasis added), were told that “this was due to increases in rents in the private sector, and a decline in people’s ability to pay these rents. This decline in ability to pay was said to be partly due to welfare reforms” (para.1.16). But, of course, those reforms are the direct consequences of government policy! "
An uncaring indifference to wrong and right
Giles Peaker
"The government is – at least misleading if not outright dishonest – about the scale of the problem. As the report notes (para.1.6). The DCLGs “measures of homelessness do not capture its full extent”. It simply ignores those who are only kept off the street owing to the charity of friends of family. The UK Statistics Authority has, since December 2015, been telling the DCLG that this is not good enough but as recently as February 2017, the DCLG was issuing press releases which perpetrated this misleading (if not dishonest) distinction"
"One of the major forces driving the increase in homelessness is the huge spike in the number of people needing help once their ASTs have ended (para.1.15 et seq). The NAO asked local authorities about this and in “all cases” (emphasis added), were told that “this was due to increases in rents in the private sector, and a decline in people’s ability to pay these rents. This decline in ability to pay was said to be partly due to welfare reforms” (para.1.16). But, of course, those reforms are the direct consequences of government policy! "
Last edited by HindleA on Wed 20 Sep, 2017 6:10 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... andparents" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Millennials spend three times more of income on housing than grandparents
http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/pub ... nerations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Millennials spend three times more of income on housing than grandparents
http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/pub ... nerations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Censored.
Last edited by HindleA on Wed 20 Sep, 2017 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41271028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Will the government really accept 'No Deal' with the EU?
Chris Cook
Will the government really accept 'No Deal' with the EU?
Chris Cook
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Roman holiday: how Chester became the most accessible city in Europe
For disabled people, the difference between being able to visit a place and not often comes down to small details. Cities around the world are taking notes from the ancient centre of Chester. Frances Ryan experiences it for herself
Roman holiday: how Chester became the most accessible city in Europe
For disabled people, the difference between being able to visit a place and not often comes down to small details. Cities around the world are taking notes from the ancient centre of Chester. Frances Ryan experiences it for herself
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
https://news.gov.scot/speeches-and-brie ... nds-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Delivering social security for Scotland's people
Delivering social security for Scotland's people
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
As a general point, one of the points about the board's ability to let you block people is that you don't have to make a song and dance about it and nobody knows you've done it - you can quietly manage things as you choose without needing to take the time to have a dig at anybody.
(He says, publicly having a dig.)
(He says, publicly having a dig.)
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Community Care,nearly legal blog,resolution foundation,BBC,Scottish Government.The Guardian link was not placed in spite and the timing was accidental.Of course,as ever it is the subjects that I know others are interested in and/or self that I link to.Most Guardian links contain links to what is referred to,so people can look at.I am.sure those with fair minds and a better grasp of numeracy would recognise that I no more link to the Guardian than anybody else,and certainly as a percentage SH is more prolific in that regard.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Adam-it is a recurrent theme.He obviously fancies me.
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
FWIW I come here for the links - saves me time if others trawl through the papers and highlight the more interesting articles. Twitter is quite good for links too, but then I have to spend time trawling through twitter.....
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Good morfternoon.
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
And here's a link to the Guardian -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... reement-euUS airlines 'very concerned' over aviation regulations post-Brexit
Fears that cliff-edge Brexit could ground flights as there are no historic rules to fall back on, unlike with other businesses (Guardian)
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Social care,housing(or lack of),Brexit,accessibility.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
What another bloody one.On a forum that was created as a means to escape the nesting and comment on here.FFS.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
HindleA 2 PF 1
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
[youtube]cWDihqeCdTY[/youtube]
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/business/li ... iness-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Pound jumps as retail sales smash forecasts
Breaking! UK retail sales were much stronger than expected in August.
The Office for National Statistics reports that retail sales jumped by 1.0% last month, beating City forecasts, and suggesting that consumers are still hitting the high street.
The ONS says:
In August 2017, the quantity bought (volume) in the retail sales industry increased by 1.0% compared with July 2017; with other non-food stores and non-store retailing as the main contributors to growth.
Compared with August 2016, the quantity bought increased by 2.4%; the 52nd consecutive month of year-on-year increase in retail sales.
Year-on-year contribution of food stores remains flat whilst there was a fall in the contribution of growth within petrol stations, showing that contributions to the overall growth came from non-essential items.
This has sent the pound jumping over half a cent against the US dollar, to $1.3587, as traders calculate that this makes a November interest rate rise more likely.
In my own humble, and not very expert opinion, I think a rate rise in the near future is very much on the cards. We are likely to go back up to 0.5% sooner rather than later for the simple reason that we were managing on 0.5% in the not too distant past. A rate rise above 0.5% is a different matter. We haven't been above 0.5% since the global financial crash and such a rise will be a real test to the economy. I don't think we'll see 0.75% anytime soon, but if we don't raise rates in the next couple of years, we'll have very little leeway to respond to Brexit when it comes.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Hopefully Mrs Roger will be able to come home this week(usual unless I have missed an update)?
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Informed opinion and cogently argued,Willow.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
It's looking like Friday now - blood still not quite right. Platelets too high I think.HindleA wrote:Hopefully Mrs Roger will be able to come home this week(usual unless I have missed an update)?
It was 4 weeks yesterday since she went in...fortunately she is able to get free wi-fi since she works for the another hospital in the same trust.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
OK thankyou.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
adam wrote:As a general point, one of the points about the board's ability to let you block people is that you don't have to make a song and dance about it and nobody knows you've done it - you can quietly manage things as you choose without needing to take the time to have a dig at anybody.
(He says, publicly having a dig.)
I didn't want to leave the ongoing impression that I was specifically ignoring HindleA's garbled sallies in response to me.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
By request to SH.Though not sure where we stand on the ever changing ignoring/obviously not thing.
ALLISES
ALLISES
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... ty-forever" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wonder if this is what will ultimately happen. Momentum is as vulnerable to disagreement as any other faction I would have thought. "Corbynites", to me anyway, means the old guard of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott. The next generation, if they have any ability at all, will need to be their own men/women. Haven't we already learned from Blair and Brown that baton passing doesn't work?
It seems to me that needing less MPs support to get on the ballot could mean more MPs from all persuasions going forward to a membership vote. Is the assumption that the "left" will field only one candidate and members of Momentum will be directed to vote for them?Will Corbynites be in charge of the Labour Party forever?
I wonder if this is what will ultimately happen. Momentum is as vulnerable to disagreement as any other faction I would have thought. "Corbynites", to me anyway, means the old guard of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott. The next generation, if they have any ability at all, will need to be their own men/women. Haven't we already learned from Blair and Brown that baton passing doesn't work?
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
I don't want to give the impression of a previously stated position.
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Willow904 quoting the NS wrote:Will Corbynites be in charge of the Labour Party forever?
Short answer is - what, like Blair's New Labour was/is, or Michael Foot's early 80s Labour was/is, and so on...
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
You tidy up your hiding places after you leave them, making it look like you were never there.HindleA wrote:I don't want to give the impression of a previously stated position.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Indeed. SH said yesterday that Corbynism had "won" - even if true, that can only be so in the relatively short term. Nothing is forever.adam wrote:Willow904 quoting the NS wrote:Will Corbynites be in charge of the Labour Party forever?
Short answer is - what, like Blair's New Labour was/is, or Michael Foot's early 80s Labour was/is, and so on...
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
The snap GE has dissipated a lot of tensions within the party for this very reason. Those worried more by Corbyn's appeal than his policies were reassured, while those who aren't happy with some of his politics or doubt his ability as a potential PM have got a Corbyn election out of the way much earlier than expected with little likelihood of him continuing to the next one in 2022.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Indeed. SH said yesterday that Corbynism had "won" - even if true, that can only be so in the relatively short term. Nothing is forever.adam wrote:Willow904 quoting the NS wrote:Will Corbynites be in charge of the Labour Party forever?
Short answer is - what, like Blair's New Labour was/is, or Michael Foot's early 80s Labour was/is, and so on...
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Well quite. See also Tories under Cameron pre-referendum...AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Indeed. SH said yesterday that Corbynism had "won" - even if true, that can only be so in the relatively short term. Nothing is forever.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
We don't know that, or indeed if the next GE isn't going to be until 2022.Willow904 wrote:The snap GE has dissipated a lot of tensions within the party for this very reason. Those worried more by Corbyn's appeal than his policies were reassured, while those who aren't happy with some of his politics or doubt his ability as a potential PM have got a Corbyn election out of the way much earlier than expected with little likelihood of him continuing to the next one in 2022.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Indeed. SH said yesterday that Corbynism had "won" - even if true, that can only be so in the relatively short term. Nothing is forever.adam wrote:Will Corbynites be in charge of the Labour Party forever?
Short answer is - what, like Blair's New Labour was/is, or Michael Foot's early 80s Labour was/is, and so on...
But I am reminded of those close to JC who said after he was elected leader that he was always thinking of stepping down a year or two before the then expected 2020 GE. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't really want to carry on much past 70 (which he will be in mid-2019)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
The idea that Corbynism has won seems to me to hugely overstate the situation.
IMHO, what Corbyn has achieved is not some kind of "lurch" to the left. Rather he has enabled the party to regain control of itself from the Westminster & City based establishment, from what would have been called until very recently the "upper class".
Hugo doesn't rate Rayner, yet she's a future leader the establishment truly fear. Why? Not because she's a left winger. She really isn't is she? Because she's working class.
IMHO, what Corbyn has achieved is not some kind of "lurch" to the left. Rather he has enabled the party to regain control of itself from the Westminster & City based establishment, from what would have been called until very recently the "upper class".
Hugo doesn't rate Rayner, yet she's a future leader the establishment truly fear. Why? Not because she's a left winger. She really isn't is she? Because she's working class.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
And if SH wants a good piece on *why* Corbyn has "won" for the time being, they could do worse than Chris Dillow's latest.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Um...my comment wasn't about precognition but expectations and your own comment reflects the expectation that I assume is quite widely held, that Corbyn is likely to stand down before 2022. As for the likelihood of an earlier election, you're right, if it starts to feel likely an election will come earlier rather than later, some of the tensions around Corbyn's leadership could well return to the fore.AnatolyKasparov wrote:We don't know that, or indeed if the next GE isn't going to be until 2022.Willow904 wrote:
The snap GE has dissipated a lot of tensions within the party for this very reason. Those worried more by Corbyn's appeal than his policies were reassured, while those who aren't happy with some of his politics or doubt his ability as a potential PM have got a Corbyn election out of the way much earlier than expected with little likelihood of him continuing to the next one in 2022.
But I am reminded of those close to JC who said after he was elected leader that he was always thinking of stepping down a year or two before the then expected 2020 GE. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't really want to carry on much past 70 (which he will be in mid-2019)
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
[Phil Hogan, the Irish European commissioner for agriculture and rural development said in an interbiew[sic] with the "Standard" said] -
"It’s amazing that the UK’s foreign secretary can publish a 4,000-word article about the UK’s Brexit future and not mention the Irish border. You’d think that the foreign secretary would have ideas about how to manage the UK’s main land border with the European Union, but obviously not." (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:And if SH wants a good piece on *why* Corbyn has "won" for the time being, they could do worse than Chris Dillow's latest.
I agree with Dillow, as I've said often on here, that housing is the big open goal for the left, and is why so many of the young feel disenchanted.
Which is one of the reasons why I think Corbyn in government is doomed to fail. Labour isn't offering any solution to this problem. John Healey, much like Keir Starmer, has a reputation that far exceeds anything they have ever said or done. In the 2017 manifesto Labour wasn't offering the radical measures that might stop the housing problem getting still worse (I don't think any conceivable government could actually "solve" the problem.)
I've said on here before the "third way" solution that is required on housing: a combination of de-regulation and vast infrastructure spending. Labour might be prepared to do the latter, but not the former. A mass council house building programme, which for reasons I've explained is distributively horribly unfair, is a 1970s answer to a 2020s problem.
The failure of the Tories to even attempt a solution to the supply side problem is political suicide.
Which is why, alongside Corbyn's age, the big problem for Corbyn backers is what happens when power is won.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Willow904 wrote:Um...my comment wasn't about precognition but expectations and your own comment reflects the expectation that I assume is quite widely held, that Corbyn is likely to stand down before 2022. As for the likelihood of an earlier election, you're right, if it starts to feel likely an election will come earlier rather than later, some of the tensions around Corbyn's leadership could well return to the fore.AnatolyKasparov wrote:We don't know that, or indeed if the next GE isn't going to be until 2022.Willow904 wrote:
The snap GE has dissipated a lot of tensions within the party for this very reason. Those worried more by Corbyn's appeal than his policies were reassured, while those who aren't happy with some of his politics or doubt his ability as a potential PM have got a Corbyn election out of the way much earlier than expected with little likelihood of him continuing to the next one in 2022.
But I am reminded of those close to JC who said after he was elected leader that he was always thinking of stepping down a year or two before the then expected 2020 GE. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't really want to carry on much past 70 (which he will be in mid-2019)
There is no successor.
Corbyn will not quit.
May, like Major before her, won't call an election unless it looks like she could win. The DUP, for obvious reasons, might have been capable of pulling the plug on the Tories were Labour led by anyone other than Corbyn, but while he is there will keep the Tories in power.
So, I think the election will be in 2022, and Corbyn will lead Labour in it. Aged 73.
Who the Tories will be led by is more interesting. Raab? Who have they got?
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
We are entitled to bear your previous prediction record in mind when considering these prognostications
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Some people think a land tax, as mentioned as a possibility in the 2017 Labour manifesto, is necessary to resolve the housing crisis. Including the Greens, I believe.SpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:And if SH wants a good piece on *why* Corbyn has "won" for the time being, they could do worse than Chris Dillow's latest.
I agree with Dillow, as I've said often on here, that housing is the big open goal for the left, and is why so many of the young feel disenchanted.
Which is one of the reasons why I think Corbyn in government is doomed to fail. Labour isn't offering any solution to this problem. John Healey, much like Keir Starmer, has a reputation that far exceeds anything they have ever said or done. In the 2017 manifesto Labour wasn't offering the radical measures that might stop the housing problem getting still worse (I don't think any conceivable government could actually "solve" the problem.)
I've said on here before the "third way" solution that is required on housing: a combination of de-regulation and vast infrastructure spending. Labour might be prepared to do the latter, but not the former. A mass council house building programme, which for reasons I've explained is distributively horribly unfair, is a 1970s answer to a 2020s problem.
The failure of the Tories to even attempt a solution to the supply side problem is political suicide.
Which is why, alongside Corbyn's age, the big problem for Corbyn backers is what happens when power is won.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
RIP Jake la Motta.
(though he was actually one of those for the "I thought they died years ago?" category)
(though he was actually one of those for the "I thought they died years ago?" category)
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The idea that Corbynism has won seems to me to hugely overstate the situation.
IMHO, what Corbyn has achieved is not some kind of "lurch" to the left. Rather he has enabled the party to regain control of itself from the Westminster & City based establishment, from what would have been called until very recently the "upper class".
Hugo doesn't rate Rayner, yet she's a future leader the establishment truly fear. Why? Not because she's a left winger. She really isn't is she? Because she's working class.
The membership. Look at the membership.
The membership has been transformed. The membership of 2017 looks nothing like that of 2010.
I don't think Labour will elect a woman leader, though Thornberry might win if Corbyn fell under a bus tomorrow (unlikely and he looks pretty spry).
I think Rayner's stock is a bit high. What has she said or done of interest? Her backstory is great of course. She is being bigged up much like Long-Bailey because there is nobody else there. This reflects the inevitably terrible quality of the shadow cabinet when the pool Corbyn has drawn on is so tiny.
And Rayner's views are much more interesting that whether she is middle or working class. Corbyn is clearly middle class, and he is the reason I left Labour. If, say, the working class Alan Johnson had been leader it would have been Blairism triumphant. If Sajid Javid (who has a working class background at least) led the Tories, I doubt it would lead to a land of distributive justice.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
This would be an excellent and truly radical move. And exactly the kind of development the establishment fear.Willow904 wrote:Some people think a land tax, as mentioned as a possibility in the 2017 Labour manifesto, is necessary to resolve the housing crisis. Including the Greens, I believe.SpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:And if SH wants a good piece on *why* Corbyn has "won" for the time being, they could do worse than Chris Dillow's latest.
I agree with Dillow, as I've said often on here, that housing is the big open goal for the left, and is why so many of the young feel disenchanted.
Which is one of the reasons why I think Corbyn in government is doomed to fail. Labour isn't offering any solution to this problem. John Healey, much like Keir Starmer, has a reputation that far exceeds anything they have ever said or done. In the 2017 manifesto Labour wasn't offering the radical measures that might stop the housing problem getting still worse (I don't think any conceivable government could actually "solve" the problem.)
I've said on here before the "third way" solution that is required on housing: a combination of de-regulation and vast infrastructure spending. Labour might be prepared to do the latter, but not the former. A mass council house building programme, which for reasons I've explained is distributively horribly unfair, is a 1970s answer to a 2020s problem.
The failure of the Tories to even attempt a solution to the supply side problem is political suicide.
Which is why, alongside Corbyn's age, the big problem for Corbyn backers is what happens when power is won.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Willow904 wrote:Some people think a land tax, as mentioned as a possibility in the 2017 Labour manifesto, is necessary to resolve the housing crisis. Including the Greens, I believe.SpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:And if SH wants a good piece on *why* Corbyn has "won" for the time being, they could do worse than Chris Dillow's latest.
I agree with Dillow, as I've said often on here, that housing is the big open goal for the left, and is why so many of the young feel disenchanted.
Which is one of the reasons why I think Corbyn in government is doomed to fail. Labour isn't offering any solution to this problem. John Healey, much like Keir Starmer, has a reputation that far exceeds anything they have ever said or done. In the 2017 manifesto Labour wasn't offering the radical measures that might stop the housing problem getting still worse (I don't think any conceivable government could actually "solve" the problem.)
I've said on here before the "third way" solution that is required on housing: a combination of de-regulation and vast infrastructure spending. Labour might be prepared to do the latter, but not the former. A mass council house building programme, which for reasons I've explained is distributively horribly unfair, is a 1970s answer to a 2020s problem.
The failure of the Tories to even attempt a solution to the supply side problem is political suicide.
Which is why, alongside Corbyn's age, the big problem for Corbyn backers is what happens when power is won.
Why would you think that?
I support an LVT but it won't solve that problem. The idea that there is insufficient incentive to build is rather belied by house prices.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
I think the idea is that LVT discourages land hoarding. If you own a vacant plot in an area of housing, the value is judged to be as if there were a house. So you might as well build one.SpinningHugo wrote:Willow904 wrote:Some people think a land tax, as mentioned as a possibility in the 2017 Labour manifesto, is necessary to resolve the housing crisis. Including the Greens, I believe.
Why would you think that?
I support an LVT but it won't solve that problem. The idea that there is insufficient incentive to build is rather belied by house prices.
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
The insufficient incentive to build is clearly reflected in the extremely low volume of builds being completed. House prices are a red herring because they are being artificially propped up.SpinningHugo wrote:Willow904 wrote:Some people think a land tax, as mentioned as a possibility in the 2017 Labour manifesto, is necessary to resolve the housing crisis. Including the Greens, I believe.SpinningHugo wrote:
I agree with Dillow, as I've said often on here, that housing is the big open goal for the left, and is why so many of the young feel disenchanted.
Which is one of the reasons why I think Corbyn in government is doomed to fail. Labour isn't offering any solution to this problem. John Healey, much like Keir Starmer, has a reputation that far exceeds anything they have ever said or done. In the 2017 manifesto Labour wasn't offering the radical measures that might stop the housing problem getting still worse (I don't think any conceivable government could actually "solve" the problem.)
I've said on here before the "third way" solution that is required on housing: a combination of de-regulation and vast infrastructure spending. Labour might be prepared to do the latter, but not the former. A mass council house building programme, which for reasons I've explained is distributively horribly unfair, is a 1970s answer to a 2020s problem.
The failure of the Tories to even attempt a solution to the supply side problem is political suicide.
Which is why, alongside Corbyn's age, the big problem for Corbyn backers is what happens when power is won.
Why would you think that?
I support an LVT but it won't solve that problem. The idea that there is insufficient incentive to build is rather belied by house prices.
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/cities ... vation-lab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
It's not even that radical, really, LVT has been a part of some US tax systems over many decades as well as more recent experiments in other parts of the world. It's not as if it would be an untried gamble or anything. There's plenty of real world information on which to base practical, workable proposals.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:This would be an excellent and truly radical move. And exactly the kind of development the establishment fear.Willow904 wrote:
Some people think a land tax, as mentioned as a possibility in the 2017 Labour manifesto, is necessary to resolve the housing crisis. Including the Greens, I believe.
It is, however, very much not in the interests of the asset rich who would strenuously oppose it, not least through the pages of the British press. Probably best to hide it in the manifesto small print and hit them with it before they know what's happening once elected!
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Doing a bit of garbling on the Labour Policy Forum.I eventually twigged how to get in,but calling myself Leon Trotskee,may have helped.
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Re: Wednesday 20th September 2017
Willow904 wrote:
The insufficient incentive to build is clearly reflected in the extremely low volume of builds being completed. House prices are a red herring because they are being artificially propped up.
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/cities ... vation-lab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That is very much a US perspective@ it isn't the UK problem. Places like Pittsburgh and Scranton have space into which they can expand. London and elsewhere where the demand is doesn't and don't. So an LVT really isn't going to solve our UK problem. We have plenty of space in the UK: just none in the areas people
(a) wish to live
and
(b) is capable of being built on.
You can help with (a) through infrastructure and (B) with deregulation, but an LVT will do nothing. An LVT is useful where, as in much of the US, (a) and (b) aren't the problem.
The idea that there are developers hoarding land is just a lie (one Labour under Miliband used to tell quite often as it spoke to the base: "Evil Capirtalists"). Developers need a bank of land to keep production stable: they can't just buy land as one job ends. Developers land banks just haven't grown.
In the UK there would be fortunes to be made if undevelpped land around London and elsewhere could be built on. Indeed, what is actually needed is a tax to capture that uplift as we deregulate, rather than just handing it over to the lucky landowners.
An LVT is a good thing: but it isn't a housing problem solution at all.
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Wed 20 Sep, 2017 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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