Monday 6th November 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Monday 6th November 2017
Morning all.
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Good morfternoon.
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Good-morning, everyone
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
http://cpag.org.uk/content/austerity-ge ... ld-poverty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/six-key- ... s-children" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/barcl ... s-20171106" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Barclays is attempting to overturn a court decision that said the UK banking giant may be liable for more than 100 claims of sexual assault.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Government's initial proposals for scrutiny of Brexit-related delegated legislation inadequate
Committee Chair, Charles Walker OBE [Tory MP for Broxbourne] said:
"The process of enacting over four decades' worth of European legislation into UK domestic law, in little more than 12 months, is one of the greatest legislative challenge Parliament has faced. The Government's current proposals for Parliamentary scrutiny do not go far enough. The task faced by the House is unique and unprecedented, and therefore it needs a scrutiny system that is up to the challenge. I am hopeful that our report will receive a swift and positive response from Government. If necessary, I am prepared to table amendments to the Bill in Committee to make sure this system can work effectively."
- 6 November 2017
http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-17-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
The UK government having sent Article 50 document signalling the UK's exit from the EU was a different government from the current UK government.
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Interesting . . .PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Shouldn't be forgotten that a lot of the CBI won't be happy with the prospect of a "no deal" Brexit.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
UK needs a government that works.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
That would be a start, yes.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Tory media output currently tension, scandal and confusiongilsey wrote:UK needs a government that works.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.
Softens up the population
Hurrah! Good news! We'll only have to endure half of god awful!
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 41331.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Reminder that Thomas Mair picked up a rifle the same day Farage unveiled his 'Breaking Point' poster.
Reminder that Thomas Mair picked up a rifle the same day Farage unveiled his 'Breaking Point' poster.
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Expensive, outmoded and inadequate transportation, energy, housing, education, social care and communications infrastructure, global warming, a kook in the White House, pollution, public service workers considered chattel by Tory government and all the stress these horrific realities create
Brexit - bailing out of decades of largely successful trade and social welfare treaties IS NOT what we need right now
Brexit - bailing out of decades of largely successful trade and social welfare treaties IS NOT what we need right now
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
That maybe ascribes a level of competence and foresight to them that they don't actually possess, mindcitizenJA wrote:Tory media output currently tension, scandal and confusiongilsey wrote:UK needs a government that works.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.
Softens up the population
Hurrah! Good news! We'll only have to endure half of god awful!
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
I'm going to hike up a hill.
I'll come back down soon.
I'll come back down soon.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
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Fox News shows broke UK TV impartiality rules, Ofcom finds
Decision against US channel that is no longer broadcast in UK is seen as setback for Murdoch family’s Sky bid
Fox News shows broke UK TV impartiality rules, Ofcom finds
Decision against US channel that is no longer broadcast in UK is seen as setback for Murdoch family’s Sky bid
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
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Priti Patel apologises for Israel meetings
International development secretary held meetings with Israeli politicians while on a family holiday
Priti Patel apologises for Israel meetings
International development secretary held meetings with Israeli politicians while on a family holiday
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Hello again. Been online less, but checking on here.
Corbyn's likely falsely accused the Queen of tax avoidance.
This sort of thing could get you on the wrong end of a libel suit with somebody not the Queen- she doesn't typically sue, hence Murdoch and all can get away with all sorts of rubbish about her.
Corbyn's likely falsely accused the Queen of tax avoidance.
I can't see that she's avoided tax. Lots of people from different jurisdictions invest. They're supposed to declare the income when it comes onshore and pay tax. Lots don't, but it's likely the Queen has.Anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things: not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society, because if a very wealthy person wants to avoid taxation in Britain and therefore put money into a tax haven somewhere, who loses? Schools, hospitals, housing, all those public services lose and the rest of the population have to pay to cover up the deficit created by that
This sort of thing could get you on the wrong end of a libel suit with somebody not the Queen- she doesn't typically sue, hence Murdoch and all can get away with all sorts of rubbish about her.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Corbyn's clarified statement:Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hello again. Been online less, but checking on here.
Corbyn's likely falsely accused the Queen of tax avoidance.
I can't see that she's avoided tax. Lots of people from different jurisdictions invest. They're supposed to declare the income when it comes onshore and pay tax. Lots don't, but it's likely the Queen has.Anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things: not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society, because if a very wealthy person wants to avoid taxation in Britain and therefore put money into a tax haven somewhere, who loses? Schools, hospitals, housing, all those public services lose and the rest of the population have to pay to cover up the deficit created by that
This sort of thing could get you on the wrong end of a libel suit with somebody not the Queen- she doesn't typically sue, hence Murdoch and all can get away with all sorts of rubbish about her.
"Jeremy Corbyn’s office has made it clear that he was not saying the Queen should apologise for her offshore investment when he answered a question from the Daily Telegraph at the CBI conference. (See 12.26pm and and 1.04pm.) A spokesman for Corbyn said:
Jeremy did not call for the Queen to apologise but said anyone who puts money into a tax haven to avoid paying tax should, and that they should recognise the damage done by avoidance to society. Labour is calling for a public inquiry into tax avoidance."
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Corbyn carefully avoided referring to the monarch, didnt he? Of course many in the media are claiming otherwise, but they would find fault with whatever he said.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
If you're asked about the Queen and you go off on one about people avoiding tax and hospitals, then people are likely to think you're talking about the Queen.
I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.
There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.
There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Afternoon
How is Corbyn’s statement anyway libelous to the Queen?
Firstly, he doesn’t mention her and he makes the connection to using tax havens to avoid paying tax
Tubby you then say she probably didn’t avoid tax anyway so in that case it doesn’t apply to her anyway unless she was using this to avoid tax
Rich people avoid tax on an industrial scale and in different ways most of us could. There is often the equating of pensions and ISAs to the use of off-shore trusts and the multitude of schemes set up to move cash from where it is generated to places of low or no tax. I find this approach as an excuse for the behaviour of some individuals and companies
What can be done about it....probably nothing but it shows how we are not all in it together and the rules are made to be exploited
How is Corbyn’s statement anyway libelous to the Queen?
Firstly, he doesn’t mention her and he makes the connection to using tax havens to avoid paying tax
Tubby you then say she probably didn’t avoid tax anyway so in that case it doesn’t apply to her anyway unless she was using this to avoid tax
Rich people avoid tax on an industrial scale and in different ways most of us could. There is often the equating of pensions and ISAs to the use of off-shore trusts and the multitude of schemes set up to move cash from where it is generated to places of low or no tax. I find this approach as an excuse for the behaviour of some individuals and companies
What can be done about it....probably nothing but it shows how we are not all in it together and the rules are made to be exploited
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
It wasn't that careful, seeing he was just asked about her. People who answer different questions to the one just asked bring problems on themselves.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn carefully avoided referring to the monarch, didnt he? Of course many in the media are claiming otherwise, but they would find fault with whatever he said.
In other news, go and see Sam Gymiah on Facebook, and tell him he's lying about having brought in an extra £160bn from tax avoidance measures.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://fullfact.org/economy/government ... avoidance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
He's clarified that he didn't mean the Queen, even though he was asked about her and I'm sure he was including her in there. He's covered himself promptly though, so no problem now.howsillyofme1 wrote:Afternoon
How is Corbyn’s statement anyway libelous to the Queen?
Firstly, he doesn’t mention her and he makes the connection to using tax havens to avoid paying tax
Tubby you then say she probably didn’t avoid tax anyway so in that case it doesn’t apply to her anyway unless she was using this to avoid tax
Rich people avoid tax on an industrial scale and in different ways most of us could. There is often the equating of pensions and ISAs to the use of off-shore trusts and the multitude of schemes set up to move cash from where it is generated to places of low or no tax. I find this approach as an excuse for the behaviour of some individuals and companies
What can be done about it....probably nothing but it shows how we are not all in it together and the rules are made to be exploited
He's fine with other stuff here, but it was an avoidable mistake that could snowball. Not because it was the Queen, but because Labour will need to hold the Tory "Remainer" votes he skilfully picked up. I think it needs to look more like it's got this stuff covered.
Public enquiry is a good idea.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Take your point Tubby. When read in context it is unnecessarily messy
From AS at the G :
He said that anyone making offshore investments to avoid tax in Britain should apologise. He made the comment when asked if he thought the Queen should apologise for having offshore investments. He replied:
Anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things: not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society, because if a very wealthy person wants to avoid taxation in Britain and therefore put money into a tax haven somewhere, who loses? Schools, hospitals, housing, all those public services lose and the rest of the population have to pay to cover up the deficit created by that ...
We simply have to challenge the culture that there is something clever about avoiding taxation. Taxation is what gives us ambulances, gives us fire tenders, gives us safety in our lives and we all have a responsibility to pay for it.
But it was not clear whether Corbyn was suggesting that the Queen invested offshore to avoid paying tax in the UK; the Duchy of Lancaster, which manages her estate, says it did not invest offshore to avoid tax.
From AS at the G :
He said that anyone making offshore investments to avoid tax in Britain should apologise. He made the comment when asked if he thought the Queen should apologise for having offshore investments. He replied:
Anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things: not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society, because if a very wealthy person wants to avoid taxation in Britain and therefore put money into a tax haven somewhere, who loses? Schools, hospitals, housing, all those public services lose and the rest of the population have to pay to cover up the deficit created by that ...
We simply have to challenge the culture that there is something clever about avoiding taxation. Taxation is what gives us ambulances, gives us fire tenders, gives us safety in our lives and we all have a responsibility to pay for it.
But it was not clear whether Corbyn was suggesting that the Queen invested offshore to avoid paying tax in the UK; the Duchy of Lancaster, which manages her estate, says it did not invest offshore to avoid tax.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
She invests in a tax haven like a lot of rich people. I assume she does it to avoid tax (or be tax efficient as they call it).Tubby Isaacs wrote:If you're asked about the Queen and you go off on one about people avoiding tax and hospitals, then people are likely to think you're talking about the Queen.
I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.
There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
She brings the income onshore and pays UK tax, I assume. Same as Cameron did with that offshore investment he had in 2010 (we don't know about all the others he had before, of course). No direct hit to schools and hospitals, though as I say, tax havens are bad for other reasons.howsillyofme1 wrote:She invests in a tax haven like a lot of rich people. I assume she does it to avoid tax (or be tax efficient as they call it).Tubby Isaacs wrote:If you're asked about the Queen and you go off on one about people avoiding tax and hospitals, then people are likely to think you're talking about the Queen.
I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.
There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
https://redbrickblog.wordpress.com/2017 ... -so-wrong/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Land and house prices – the Tories are getting it so wrong
Land and house prices – the Tories are getting it so wrong
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Priti big slapdown there. They have stated that she was lying about the Boris part.
[edit: clarification]
[edit: clarification]
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Jonathan Lis
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Back from meetings in Brussels. There's good news and bad news. First, the bad news. Because it's... extremely bad. 1/
Thread - couldn't see any "good news"
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@jonlis1
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Back from meetings in Brussels. There's good news and bad news. First, the bad news. Because it's... extremely bad. 1/
Thread - couldn't see any "good news"
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
AngryAsWell wrote:Jonathan Lis
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Back from meetings in Brussels. There's good news and bad news. First, the bad news. Because it's... extremely bad. 1/
Thread - couldn't see any "good news"
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I couldn't see any good news, either. Maybe the meaning of "good news" has had to be changed (in the "Brexit" context).
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Thanks for the fullfact link . If the govt are including 'savings ' up to 2021/2022, why stop there ?Tubby Isaacs wrote:It wasn't that careful, seeing he was just asked about her. People who answer different questions to the one just asked bring problems on themselves.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn carefully avoided referring to the monarch, didnt he? Of course many in the media are claiming otherwise, but they would find fault with whatever he said.
In other news, go and see Sam Gymiah on Facebook, and tell him he's lying about having brought in an extra £160bn from tax avoidance measures.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://fullfact.org/economy/government ... avoidance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I always used to enjoy the Prem Sikka threads on CiF ---
“”A well-resourced and robust HMRC is necessary for challenging the might of the financial elites and their addiction to tax avoidance, but its capacities have been consistently undermined. In April 2005, HMRC had staff of 104,670 and a budget of £4.4bn, compared to a staffing of 61,800 in April 2017 and a budget of £3.8bn.
This is a massive reduction in real terms. Unsurprisingly, HMRC has investigated only 72 high net worth individuals for potential tax fraud since 2011, and there has been only one successful prosecution.“”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ise-papers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I found John McD pretty weak on Toady this morning against a serious question from Humphrys on (eventual) control of capital movements.
Ann Pettifor was far better , more forthright !
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Queen invested millions in offshore tax havens
The Times today . Accusatory ? (if that's English !)
The Times today . Accusatory ? (if that's English !)
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Two different assumptions.......Tubby Isaacs wrote:She brings the income onshore and pays UK tax, I assume. Same as Cameron did with that offshore investment he had in 2010 (we don't know about all the others he had before, of course). No direct hit to schools and hospitals, though as I say, tax havens are bad for other reasons.howsillyofme1 wrote:She invests in a tax haven like a lot of rich people. I assume she does it to avoid tax (or be tax efficient as they call it).Tubby Isaacs wrote:If you're asked about the Queen and you go off on one about people avoiding tax and hospitals, then people are likely to think you're talking about the Queen.
I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.
There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
?[David]Davis says publishing some parts of Brexit impact reports may not be in public interest
Lisa O'Carroll
Brexit secretary David Davis has said it may not be in the “public interest” to publish the government’s analysis of the impact of Brexit on 58 sectors including pharmaceuticals, road haulage and retail. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... on-british" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Boris Johnson blunder 'risks five more years in prison for British-Iranian woman'
Boris Johnson blunder 'risks five more years in prison for British-Iranian woman'
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Yeah, but the Queen being engaged in tax evasion would sure be a story and a half!howsillyofme1 wrote:
Two different assumptions.......
Corbyn's clarification did the job, by the look of it. Not even the shifty whatabouterist Tories seem to have banged that drum in the debate, in which Peter Bone tried to make out Labour are avoiding tax by renting a building owned off shore.
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
He must be able to get a hilarious joke out of that. What a liability the man is.HindleA wrote:https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... on-british
Boris Johnson blunder 'risks five more years in prison for British-Iranian woman'
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
It's true, and she shouldn't have done. But that doesn't mean she didn't pay full UK tax when the income was brought onshore.frog222 wrote:Queen invested millions in offshore tax havens
The Times today . Accusatory ? (if that's English !)
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Thanks to you too. That seems a low number to investigate. They got a bunch handed to them in leaks.frog222 wrote:Thanks for the fullfact link . If the govt are including 'savings ' up to 2021/2022, why stop there ?Tubby Isaacs wrote:It wasn't that careful, seeing he was just asked about her. People who answer different questions to the one just asked bring problems on themselves.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn carefully avoided referring to the monarch, didnt he? Of course many in the media are claiming otherwise, but they would find fault with whatever he said.
In other news, go and see Sam Gymiah on Facebook, and tell him he's lying about having brought in an extra £160bn from tax avoidance measures.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://fullfact.org/economy/government ... avoidance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I always used to enjoy the Prem Sikka threads on CiF ---
“”A well-resourced and robust HMRC is necessary for challenging the might of the financial elites and their addiction to tax avoidance, but its capacities have been consistently undermined. In April 2005, HMRC had staff of 104,670 and a budget of £4.4bn, compared to a staffing of 61,800 in April 2017 and a budget of £3.8bn.
This is a massive reduction in real terms. Unsurprisingly, HMRC has investigated only 72 high net worth individuals for potential tax fraud since 2011, and there has been only one successful prosecution.“”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ise-papers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I found John McD pretty weak on Toady this morning against a serious question from Humphrys on (eventual) control of capital movements.
Ann Pettifor was far better , more forthright !
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
I don't know if Roger is around- and anybody else, feel free to comment. But Sam Gymiah, as evidence of this anti-avoidance master strategy said this.
Sure, it's a technical change that effectively raises the tax take from corporations- the sort of thing that used to be called a "stealth tax" under Gordo, and be a very bad thing. But compare that with all the unneeded cuts to the headline corporation tax rate.
Not so impressive, is it?
Given that losing money on capital transactions is a bad thing, I don't think that it counts as an avoidance strategy, does it? It's like saying "firms are avoiding tax by not selling stuff at a profit"." We’ve stopped companies being able to convert their capital losses into trading losses"
Sure, it's a technical change that effectively raises the tax take from corporations- the sort of thing that used to be called a "stealth tax" under Gordo, and be a very bad thing. But compare that with all the unneeded cuts to the headline corporation tax rate.
Not so impressive, is it?
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Extremely misleading on her part.GetYou wrote:Priti big slapdown there. They have stated that she was lying about the Boris part.
[edit: clarification]
Boris knew about it obv implies that he had prior knowledge, not that she told him afterwards!
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Adam BienkovVerified account @AdamBienkov 2h2 hours ago
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May's spokesman tells me the PM didn't know about Priti Patel's meeting with the Israeli PM until Friday, three months after it took place.
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May's spokesman tells me the PM didn't know about Priti Patel's meeting with the Israeli PM until Friday, three months after it took place.
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
It seemed pretty clear to me.Boris Johnson refuses to retract error about Briton detained in Iran, but insists his comment misinterpreted (Politics Live, Guardian)
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
Shocking numbers all round.frog222 wrote: “”A well-resourced and robust HMRC is necessary for challenging the might of the financial elites and their addiction to tax avoidance, but its capacities have been consistently undermined. In April 2005, HMRC had staff of 104,670 and a budget of £4.4bn, compared to a staffing of 61,800 in April 2017 and a budget of £3.8bn.
This is a massive reduction in real terms. Unsurprisingly, HMRC has investigated only 72 high net worth individuals for potential tax fraud since 2011, and there has been only one successful prosecution.“”
On the whole I'd prefer if JMcD let Ann Pettifor do the talking. He could just say, I agree with Ann, instead of giving the RW media a chance to have a go at him.I found John McD pretty weak on Toady this morning against a serious question from Humphrys on (eventual) control of capital movements.
Ann Pettifor was far better , more forthright !
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Monday 6th November 2017
To most people I think. That poor woman, and her little one.PorFavor wrote:It seemed pretty clear to me.Boris Johnson refuses to retract error about Briton detained in Iran, but insists his comment misinterpreted (Politics Live, Guardian)
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One world, like it or not - John Martyn