Tuesday 18th March 2025

[refitman]

Morning all.

[Frog222]

Morning !

" The charity said its research found that 70% of those families with someone with a disability were already going without essentials such as food, heating and hot showers. The figure was particularly high for those with a learning disability or mental health condition.

There was also considerable concern from campaigners about some of the ways the statistics had been portrayed in order to justify the forthcoming cut, in particular a government press release that claimed the number of people “considered too sick to work” had “quadrupled” since the pandemic, referring to a 383% rise.

The rise was attributable to the move on to universal credit, according to the JRF’s senior policy adviser, Iain Porter, who said although there was concern it had risen, the real rise was more like 40%.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... opposition

[Frog222]

NO Heads Will Roll SHOCK ---

"" Thames has admitted it has left its sewage treatment works to crumble for decades as a result of underinvestment. Its own business documents say it has “sweated these assets” by failing to invest in their upkeep, and as a result its infrastructure poses a risk to public safety, water supply and to the environment. ""

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ivers-2024

[Frog222]

" Times are far harder than in 1997. But Reeves is a Keynesian – read her book praising Keynesian economists who would all tell her cutting is no solution to near-stagnant growth. "

Polly , quite possibly that is just some of the stuff she lifted from Wikipedia to cobble a little respectability as a 'serious' economist ? I rather doubt that you had to be an economist of any description to work in the mortgage complaints department at HBOS .

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nment-cuts

[Frog222]

"Buffer zones, coalition of the willing etc etc "

Mark Galeotti -- "Fantasy football !"

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Well there you have it.

A ranting imbecile has just stood up in parliament and shouted proudly that Labour are to bring in benefit cuts and reforms which are far more damaging for the sick and disabled than anything the Tories have proposed for the previous 14 years.

There's no hiding from it now.

[Frog222]

THE GOOD VLAD -----



Narcissistic Personality Disorder, psychopathology, even ADHD, a sick society gettin its sick leader, roll up !

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Here it is in all its gory details.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... feguarding

The biggest (and most shocking) change is that after the WCA is scrapped all claimants will need to pass the PIP assessment to qualify for any health related benefits which is to made much more stringent requiring 4 points from a daily living category. What this effectively means is that people with mental health problems will find it almost impossible to claim PIP or receive the UC 'health element' which is to replace LCW/LCWRA. It will also mean tens of thousands of people a with physical sickness/disability who currently qualify for PIP and UC LCRWA will find themselves being denied those benefits.

New style ESA, the sickness/disability benefit for those with enough NI contributions, and which was indefinite and not means tested, is to be scrapped altogether and replaced with a time limited (6-12 months) 'Unemployment Insurance', meaning after it ends those claimants will be forced to claim UC which is means tested (so their partners money would be taken into account for example) and face the same difficulties mentioned above.

For existing claimants already awarded LCWRA the 'health top up' amount will be frozen from next year to be eaten up by inflation while being reduced for new claimants by £47 a week.

Reassessments for UC claimants are to be restarted and 'ramped up'. (The Tories promised never to reassess existing LCRWA claimants again).

In short, these are an absolutely appalling set of proposals which go far beyond anything even the Tories were prepared to inflict on the sick and disabled. They're going to cause untold misery and force thousands of some of the poorest, most vulnerable people in this country into abject poverty by removing what little of the safety net was left for them.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

It looks like just about everyone apart from the Tories is suitably appalled but it won't make a jot of difference.

If you look at the section of the green paper dealing with the consultation they're about to have with claimants, charities, etc every single measure they're proposing to impoverish people is marked as 'consulting - no'.

No dissenting views are to be tolerated. Which means of course that much of this will inevitably end up going through the courts.

[refitman]

Fuck Labour even more

[AnatolyKasparov]

You would never guess from the above posts that Universal Credit is being increased by more than inflation, to take just one thing.

The package contains some good things and some less good, as expected. But is still some way from the bloodbath gleefully predicted by the media.

And we shall see if any of these proposals (and that is all they are) get modified, despite the confident claims above they won't be.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

So according to the IFS and Resolution Foundation by 2028/29 a total of just over 2 million sick and disabled people will be between £6300 and £2400 a year worse off as a result of the benefit cuts and reforms of a Labour government.

A Labour government.

No Tory government has done anything as callous as this, Osborne's austerity cuts were a drop in the ocean compared to it, even new Labour's shenanigans pale into insignificance.

And it's not just the loss of money. They will be frozen out of claiming sickness/disability benefits entirely and as a result be treated exactly the same as any other unemployed claimant with all the conditionality and sanctions that brings.

This is far worse than anyone was expecting and it's little wonder so many charities and advocacy groups are expressing their horror at what's being proposed.

[refitman]

I'm shocked I tell you, shocked

[refitman]

You would never guess from the above posts that Universal Credit is being increased by more than inflation, to take just one thing.

The package contains some good things and some less good, as expected. But is still some way from the bloodbath gleefully predicted by the media.

And we shall see if any of these proposals (and that is all they are) get modified, despite the confident claims above they won't be.

They're going to absolutely fuck themselves in the polls. How many people are or know a disabled person currently in receipt of some kind of benefit? There vote has just evaporated.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

The package contains some good things and some less good, as expected. But is still some way from the bloodbath gleefully predicted by the media.

What? It's much much worse than was predicted. How is stripping 2 million people of their sickness/disability benefits in any way 'less good'? You blithely mention a bloodbath when this will undoubtedly cost people their lives. This isn't a game. It's real life, my life, and yet you come on here determined to play your silly political games and try and play it down.

You either don't fully understand the magnitude of what's being proposed or you're being deliberately obtuse.

I hope it's the former.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

As I mentioned above, they really are taking the piss. This will end up back in court.

DWP launches entirely bogus Green Paper consultation

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/ ... nsultation

The DWP has launched an entirely bogus consultation on changes to personal independence payment (PIP) and universal credit (UC) by refusing to consult on almost everything that matters most to claimants.

Yet the list of things that the DWP is refusing to consult on, meaning there are no questions about them in the online consultation, includes:

: Scrapping the WCA
: Creating a single assessment for PIP and the UC health element
: Freezing the health element of UC until 2029/30
: Only awarding PIP daily living if you get at least one descriptor scoring 4 or more points
: Restarting WCA reassessments until the WCA is scrapped

In January of this year, the High Court found that a Conservative consultation on changes to the work capability assessment (WCA) was unlawful, meaning that the changes could not go ahead.

The judge held that the DWP had: failed to adequately explain the proposals; had failed to explain that the main purpose was to save money rather than to get claimants into work; had failed to provide sufficient time for the consultation.

At the time, many of us thought that this meant that the DWP under Labour would have to carry out an honest consultation on changes to PIP and UC.

Instead, the lesson that the DWP has learnt is not that it should be honest, but instead that it should just not consult on anything meaningful at all.

The Green paper consultation is so dishonest that we feel unable to recommend that people take part in the way we normally would, though we also know that the DWP may argue that lack of response means that most people do not object to the changes.

In the Green paper, the DWP claim that “We are committed to putting the views and voices of disabled people and people with health conditions at the heart of everything we do.”

In fact, this bogus consultation is entirely about silencing the voices of disabled people and people with health conditions.

The reality is that the DWP under Labour is proving to be even more dishonest and devious than it was under the Tories.

[AnatolyKasparov]

The package contains some good things and some less good, as expected. But is still some way from the bloodbath gleefully predicted by the media.

What? It's much much worse than was predicted. How is stripping 2 million people of their sickness/disability benefits in any way 'less good'? You blithely mention a bloodbath when this will undoubtedly cost people their lives. This isn't a game. It's real life, my life, and yet you come on here determined to play your silly political games and try and play it down.

You either don't fully understand the magnitude of what's being proposed or you're being deliberately obtuse.

I hope it's the former.

Genuine question, do you think *all* of the recent big increase in sickness benefits is genuine. Or is it partly "gaming the system"?

I think there are a couple of things in there which Labour MPs and others are going to try and change, its far from set in stone yet.

Oh, not a popular opinion on here but I think Kendall has done her best. The worst stuff is undoubtedly down to Reeves and her fiscal rules.

[refitman]

You know what would have been better than making disabled people's lives even worse? The thing Labour were talking about last year

Labour drafts options for wealth taxes to ‘unlock’ funds for public services

Exclusive: Sources say changes to inheritance tax and capital gains tax are being discussed
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... c-services

But I guess Reeves, Starmer and Streeting would lose out on their donor freebies, if they did that.

[refitman]

The package contains some good things and some less good, as expected. But is still some way from the bloodbath gleefully predicted by the media.

What? It's much much worse than was predicted. How is stripping 2 million people of their sickness/disability benefits in any way 'less good'? You blithely mention a bloodbath when this will undoubtedly cost people their lives. This isn't a game. It's real life, my life, and yet you come on here determined to play your silly political games and try and play it down.

You either don't fully understand the magnitude of what's being proposed or you're being deliberately obtuse.

I hope it's the former.

Genuine question, do you think *all* of the recent big increase in sickness benefits is genuine. Or is it partly "gaming the system"?

I think there are a couple of things in there which Labour MPs and others are going to try and change, its far from set in stone yet.

Oh, not a popular opinion on here but I think Kendall has done her best. The worst stuff is undoubtedly down to Reeves and her fiscal rules.

Oh get stuffed. It's near fucking impossible to get the benefits you qualify for now and they're going to actively make it harder, depending on your circumstances.

[refitman]

Seriously, insinuating loads of disabled people aren't really disabled and are actually committing fraud. PIP, you know the one they're taking away from people, has 0% payment errors - PER THE DWP'S OWN FIGURES:

[refitman]

Something to put a smile on your face

[Frog222]

Something to put a smile on your face

I've been checking every few days , the last I saw was buyer(s) coming in at 230, it
went to 240's . Now --

Market Summary > Tesla Inc
225.31 USD −12.70 (5.34%)today

SCHADE !

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Genuine question, do you think *all* of the recent big increase in sickness benefits is genuine. Or is it partly "gaming the system"?

A friendly warning AK, I'm getting very close to telling you to fuck off.

You told us time and time again to wait for the announcement. You dismissed our concerns repeatedly while claiming our worst fears were unfounded and based on scaremongering. You said you would apologise if you were wrong.

Well you were wrong. VERY wrong. Go take a look at the horrified statements from Citizens advice, Scope, Mind, Joseph Rowntree Foundation, Unison, Unite, the list goes on and on. Do you think these charities, unions, and NGOs are up in arms just for effect? That they're exaggerating? What about the IFS? Or the OBR? The latter forecast half a million would lose their benefits under the Tory reforms, Labour have quadrupled that figure.

These are the biggest cuts to sickness/disability benefits that have ever been made by any government. It's far worse than any of us thought it was going to be and if you had any decency you'd be offering that apology rather than backsliding and coming out with shit like this.

We've posted multiple figures, graphs, charts from multiple sources debunking the supposed 'big increase' in sickness benefits. Have you read any of them or are you just barking this crap out like a good Labour doggie? Social security spending as a proportion of GDP is no higher than it was 20 years ago according to the OBR and the DWP's own figures. Your wretched party has been lying and playing political games with the lives of the most vulnerable people in this country and today a ranting lunatic with her party behind her threw 2 million of them to the wolves.

[Frog222]

@SKY " Social security spending as a proportion of GDP is no higher than it was 20 years ago according to the OBR and the DWP's own figures. "

If that is correct, and I suspect it is , one of the UK's problems is that it is a lower wage and 'quality of life' state than many similar ...so there's a narrower line between the bottom layer of unemployed and those on disability than there is elsewhere ?

Anyway, I'm off... deciding whether to listen to Radio4 or leave that 'news' till tomorrow !

[refitman]

Oh no, they've lost Supertanskii!