Frog222 wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 10:01 pm
If that is correct, and I suspect it is , one of the UK's problems is that it is a lower wage and 'quality of life' state than many similar ...so there's a narrower line between the bottom layer of unemployed and those on disability than there is elsewhere ?
Britain's poorest households worse off than those in Slovenia, think tank says
"Economic stagnation over the past decade is now threatening the UK's position as a place for a high standard of living," Max Mosley, a senior economist at NIESR and the report's main author, said.
"That the poorest in our country now fare worse than those in nations once considered less affluent is a stark indictment of the UK's economic social model," Mosley said.
NIESR said while Britain's poorest 10% might be better off in cash terms than their counterparts in Slovenia and Malta, they fell behind once Britain's higher cost of living was taken into account.
It said the value of welfare payments in Britain had been below the cost of household essentials in 12 of the last 14 years - with the only exceptions being in 2020 and 2021 thanks to a temporary welfare boost during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Genuine question, do you think *all* of the recent big increase in sickness benefits is genuine. Or is it partly "gaming the system"?
Come off it AK, there'll always be a few people gaming the system, whatever the system is, and we know that there are far fewer gaming the benefits system than there are - much better off - people gaming the tax system.
To the extent that there are increasing numbers claiming sickness benefits, it's not hard to think of possible reasons. Most of which come down to successive penny-pinching govts.
Underfunded health service, bankrupt local authorities, poor housing, stagnant family incomes, etc etc
What? It's much much worse than was predicted. How is stripping 2 million people of their sickness/disability benefits in any way 'less good'? You blithely mention a bloodbath when this will undoubtedly cost people their lives. This isn't a game. It's real life, my life, and yet you come on here determined to play your silly political games and try and play it down.
You either don't fully understand the magnitude of what's being proposed or you're being deliberately obtuse.
I hope it's the former.
Genuine question, do you think *all* of the recent big increase in sickness benefits is genuine. Or is it partly "gaming the system"?
I think there are a couple of things in there which Labour MPs and others are going to try and change, its far from set in stone yet.
Oh, not a popular opinion on here but I think Kendall has done her best. The worst stuff is undoubtedly down to Reeves and her fiscal rules.
Oh get stuffed. It's near fucking impossible to get the benefits you qualify for now and they're going to actively make it harder, depending on your circumstances.
I've told you before that I have experience of both ends of the benefits system, so I know perfectly well it isn't "easy".
But that increases the chances that those who "know what to do" benefit, whilst some in genuine need miss out.
refitman wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 10:29 pm
Oh no, they've lost Supertanskii!
From what I understand unlike most of Starmer's cheerleaders she's had skin in the game in regard to sickness benefits, I think because of her Mum (?) so she understands the system and had previously treated Labour's gaslighting of the disabled with the contempt it deserved. So it's no surprise she's a bit annoyed today. There's a lot of it about.
I must clarify though, when I say Labour I mean Starmer, Reeves, and on this occasion Kendall. There have been other Labour MPs today who have behaved with compassion and humanity, notable mentions must go to Clive Lewis and Debbie Abrahams, and of course ex Labour MPs like Messrs Corbyn and McDonnell.
I've criticised Corbyn plenty but am more than happy to acknowledge he's always had the backs of the downtrodden.
Genuine question, do you think *all* of the recent big increase in sickness benefits is genuine. Or is it partly "gaming the system"?
Come off it AK, there'll always be a few people gaming the system, whatever the system is, and we know that there are far fewer gaming the benefits system than there are - much better off - people gaming the tax system.
To the extent that there are increasing numbers claiming sickness benefits, it's not hard to think of possible reasons. Most of which come down to successive penny-pinching govts.
Underfunded health service, bankrupt local authorities, poor housing, stagnant family incomes, etc etc
I agree with pretty much all that. Which is why other stuff - such as getting waiting lists majorly down and making lower paid workers better off and with more secure employment - is so important. And anybody honest will admit this government is at least trying to tackle these things.
Since 2016, and even more so 2020, the Tories basically gave up on governing - this allowed lots of things to steadily deteriorate and kicking so many cans down the road left any new administration - even the best intentioned - with some unpleasant choices to make.
And - not just on here but more generally - let's put paid to the idea that a wealth tax would magically solve everything and mean everybody else could have whatever they wanted? I am not against one at all, and think it could actually work if done properly. But its advocates are often wildly unrealistic about the amount it would actually raise. Even with one, we would still have to make choices about what we prioritise spending money on.
gilsey wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 10:55 pm
Come off it AK, there'll always be a few people gaming the system, whatever the system is, and we know that there are far fewer gaming the benefits system than there are - much better off - people gaming the tax system.
To the extent that there are increasing numbers claiming sickness benefits, it's not hard to think of possible reasons. Most of which come down to successive penny-pinching govts.
Underfunded health service, bankrupt local authorities, poor housing, stagnant family incomes, etc etc
It's not just that, £22 billion in sickness benefit went unclaimed last year according to the DWP.
In any civilised society surely the priority would be to make sure those who were eligible for those benefits received them rather than clawing back 5 billion from those who've done all that was asked of them jumping through multiple demeaning hoops along the way.
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 11:03 pm
I've told you before that I have experience of both ends of the benefits system, so I know perfectly well it isn't "easy".
But that increases the chances that those who "know what to do" benefit, whilst some in genuine need miss out.
When did you have these experiences? Not why, I'm not fishing for details, just what years?
And also you appear to be accepting claiming sickness benefits isn't easy while simultaneously saying that makes it easier to play the system which makes absolutely no fucking sense.
This is what happens when you leave a respected centre left think tank like the Resolution Foundation and choose instead to be a Labour MP in this government. The Resolution Foundation today decried the fact that these reforms would strip 1.2 million of their PIP by 2029.
Frog222 wrote: Tue Mar 18, 2025 10:01 pm
@SKY " Social security spending as a proportion of GDP is no higher than it was 20 years ago according to the OBR and the DWP's own figures. "
If that is correct, and I suspect it is , one of the UK's problems is that it is a lower wage and 'quality of life' state than many similar ...so there's a narrower line between the bottom layer of unemployed and those on disability than there is elsewhere ?
Anyway, I'm off... deciding whether to listen to Radio4 or leave that 'news' till tomorrow !
DAMN! I NARROWER line between poorer EMPLOYED 's £££££ and those on disability.
