Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Good morfternoon.
@frog222
I thought you were doing this bit. Oh well, if you want something doing . . .
@frog222
I thought you were doing this bit. Oh well, if you want something doing . . .
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Good morning
Read the first line of this........
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-move" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I find this assumption that because someone voted Remain they also want us to have a relationship that gives us all the access rights as now but also commits us to whatever the EU decide without having a say - this assumption is as wrong as the Leave voters all wanting a 'no-deal' scenario
Labour officially committing to SM/CU in perpetuity is not something that can be done lightly and needs much thought and consultation - it would also need us to have a negotiation with the EU - which Labour are not having
Simplifying there are two options
CU/SM and no say in the rules
CU/SM and a say in the rules - I believe this is called membership of the EU and I cannot see us getting agreement on this with the EU from outside
The assumption from some people is this is an easy decision to make and can be just thrown out there - the consequences of it may not go down as well as they think though - just as people who supported Leave are seeing the hidden implications
I despair sometimes - from front page of Guardian on-line!
If you want CU/SM then it has to be as a member of EU or a clear interim for going back in. Standalone I predict it wouldn't be possible to sustain
Read the first line of this........
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-move" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I find this assumption that because someone voted Remain they also want us to have a relationship that gives us all the access rights as now but also commits us to whatever the EU decide without having a say - this assumption is as wrong as the Leave voters all wanting a 'no-deal' scenario
Labour officially committing to SM/CU in perpetuity is not something that can be done lightly and needs much thought and consultation - it would also need us to have a negotiation with the EU - which Labour are not having
Simplifying there are two options
CU/SM and no say in the rules
CU/SM and a say in the rules - I believe this is called membership of the EU and I cannot see us getting agreement on this with the EU from outside
The assumption from some people is this is an easy decision to make and can be just thrown out there - the consequences of it may not go down as well as they think though - just as people who supported Leave are seeing the hidden implications
I despair sometimes - from front page of Guardian on-line!
If you want CU/SM then it has to be as a member of EU or a clear interim for going back in. Standalone I predict it wouldn't be possible to sustain
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
and just to add to above post - I think Starmer (and probably/possible the leadership) know that the only way to get their desired outcome is CU/SM but he understands better than some like Streeting what the implications are and is edging towards it rather then full pelt
The transition is quite clearly stated as CU/SM now which is good - what happens after needs to be really well thougt through and communicated
I am placing my confidence in him on this - whether I am right or wrong on history will tell, but he is cleverer than me and also understands the situation much better than I do
The transition is quite clearly stated as CU/SM now which is good - what happens after needs to be really well thougt through and communicated
I am placing my confidence in him on this - whether I am right or wrong on history will tell, but he is cleverer than me and also understands the situation much better than I do
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Hsom --9.23 -- I'm not sure Starmer is much cleverer etc than you . Be afraid ![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
I am sure he is but even by some miracle he isn't then the second point stays and is very important. He knows more than we do about what is feasible and what isn't as he has access tot eh EU and their position. He is not negotiating but he will have an idea of the art of the possiblefrog222 wrote:Hsom --9.23 -- I'm not sure Starmer is much cleverer etc than you . Be afraid
It may be there is an SM/CU solution outside the EU that works but I haven't seen it yet so, as a Remain voter, I would tell Streeting he doesn't speak for me!
I read somewhere that Starmer is actually being very legally pedantic in what he says - so whe he say we are leaving THE SM and THE CU he is technically correct because they are parts of the EU Internal Market which is only for EU members........this is fence sitting extraordinaire.....
I see a lot of people coming out and saying Labour MUST come and out and STATE their position now - what is special about now?
It seems nothing much is happening so why would Labour give themselves up to the Tories and their media friends like that?
Ever since the referendum we heard the same thing, the election was going to be a disaster because of it - but those people, with hindsight were wrong.
People come on and say 'Labour will lose my vote because they are not Remain enough' and I ask - when exactly are they going to lose your vote? I don't see any elections happening until May, and they are local ones.
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
HSOM "" Ever since the referendum we heard the same thing, the election was going to be a disaster because of it""
The Fear Campaign exaggerated some things greatly, but most of their error was in the time-scale of the negative effects ?
The Fear Campaign exaggerated some things greatly, but most of their error was in the time-scale of the negative effects ?
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
frog222 wrote:HSOM "" Ever since the referendum we heard the same thing, the election was going to be a disaster because of it""
The Fear Campaign exaggerated some things greatly, but most of their error was in the time-scale of the negative effects ?
I realise it didn't make sense
My point was supposed to have been that Labour had to make their position absolutely clearly known on Brexit or it would be an electoral disaster
On your point - you are right and I always see Brexit as a chronic rather than an acute problem. The acute problem is current Tory policies.....Brexit didn't force them to destroy the NHS
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
https://www.ft.com/content/a2553db2-f6b ... 65a6ce1a00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fire, fury and the real trouble with Trump
The discord revealed in Michael Wolff’s exposé is all too plausible. Yet behind it is a story that should worry us much more
I’m not copying the article, but it’s worth registering for the free read .
Books recommended are David Frum’s Trumpocracy and How Democracies Die by Levitsky and Ziblatt
Who wrote " It can't happen here ?"
Fire, fury and the real trouble with Trump
The discord revealed in Michael Wolff’s exposé is all too plausible. Yet behind it is a story that should worry us much more
I’m not copying the article, but it’s worth registering for the free read .
Books recommended are David Frum’s Trumpocracy and How Democracies Die by Levitsky and Ziblatt
Who wrote " It can't happen here ?"
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
See also this from Matthew Parris, presenting it as a win for Remain. We're all losers, of course.howsillyofme1 wrote:Good morning
Read the first line of this........
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-move" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I find this assumption that because someone voted Remain they also want us to have a relationship that gives us all the access rights as now but also commits us to whatever the EU decide without having a say - this assumption is as wrong as the Leave voters all wanting a 'no-deal' scenario
Labour officially committing to SM/CU in perpetuity is not something that can be done lightly and needs much thought and consultation - it would also need us to have a negotiation with the EU - which Labour are not having
Simplifying there are two options
CU/SM and no say in the rules
CU/SM and a say in the rules - I believe this is called membership of the EU and I cannot see us getting agreement on this with the EU from outside
The assumption from some people is this is an easy decision to make and can be just thrown out there - the consequences of it may not go down as well as they think though - just as people who supported Leave are seeing the hidden implications
I despair sometimes - from front page of Guardian on-line!
If you want CU/SM then it has to be as a member of EU or a clear interim for going back in. Standalone I predict it wouldn't be possible to sustain
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2018/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rogue landlords making millions out of housing benefits
Rogue landlords making millions out of housing benefits
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/ ... rs-charges" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ground rent: ‘We feel like prisoners in our own home’
High charges have left young homebuyers trapped – and the John Lewis pension fund has been accused of playing a role
Ground rent: ‘We feel like prisoners in our own home’
High charges have left young homebuyers trapped – and the John Lewis pension fund has been accused of playing a role
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... es-aged-80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42671503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42671503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by HindleA on Sat 13 Jan, 2018 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Brexit won't force any govt to destroy the NHS afterwards, either, and I'm getting sick of seeing remainers say it will as if that's a clinching argument, it's Project Fear all over again and it didn't work very well last time.howsillyofme1 wrote: The acute problem is current Tory policies.....Brexit didn't force them to destroy the NHS
Brexit will be very bad for workforce management and medical science collaboration, but funding will still be a political decision. The NHS can be be mitigation for Brexit.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
This, lots.gilsey wrote: We're all losers, of course.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
I agreeadam wrote:This, lots.gilsey wrote: We're all losers, of course.
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Referendum II is coming. Farage just can’t bear being a Brexit misfit" Marina Hyde
"Referendum II is coming. Farage just can’t bear being a Brexit misfit" Marina Hyde
As mentioned before , there is a lot of the seethingly bitchy “resting” actor about Farage (and in various other wingnut old hams who find themselves currently between jobs – your Katie Hopkinses, your Milo s). Don’t get me wrong – Nigel’s been a massive hit at the Brexit conventions. There’s always a big queue for him to sign
Breaking Point posters and pose for fan selfies next to the mannequin of the V-signing Bob Geldof . But it’s like there’s something … missing?
...No surprise that, when asked for a comment on a second referendum, one EU diplomat told the Telegraph’s Brussels correspondent: “Do what the fuck you want but stop dicking around.”
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
The ones who irk me are those who go on about "Brexit making austerity worse" when they didn't give a monkey's about austerity before June 23 2016.gilsey wrote:Brexit won't force any govt to destroy the NHS afterwards, either, and I'm getting sick of seeing remainers say it will as if that's a clinching argument, it's Project Fear all over again and it didn't work very well last time.howsillyofme1 wrote: The acute problem is current Tory policies.....Brexit didn't force them to destroy the NHS
Brexit will be very bad for workforce management and medical science collaboration, but funding will still be a political decision. The NHS can be be mitigation for Brexit.
(if this was a case of that day genuinely opening their minds as to why Brexit happened, it would be a different matter - but most of the time, its not)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
http://www.cityam.com/278713/trade-cred ... ngs-threadTrade credit insurers pull cover as Carillion "hangs by a thread"
Euler Hermes and other trade credit insurers have stopped writing new coverage for suppliers to embattled contractor Carillion, sending a signal the company is at risk of collapse, according to reports.
Tokio Marine HCC and MGA Nexus also said they would not insure deliveries to the firm, Insurance Insider reported. Trade credit insurance protects firms against the risk of a customer going insolvent.
Yesterday, Carillion dismissed reports lenders had rejected a critical restructuring plan.
(City A.M.)
Edited - brackets
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ter-brexitHammond: EU leaders 'paranoid' that other nations will leave after Brexit
Chancellor tells Die Welt newspaper that EU leaders are fixated on punishing Britain, rather than looking ahead to building post-Brexit trade (Guardian)
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
https://news.sky.com/story/trump-suppor ... t-11205566Trump supporters demand arrest of London Mayor Sadiq Khan
It follows a comment from Sadiq Khan, saying Mr Trump realises he is "not welcome" in London after a planned visit was cancelled.
Supporters of US President Donald Trump have disrupted a speech by Sadiq Khan and called for the London Mayor to be arrested.
Mr Khan was about to start speaking to the Fabian Society in London when he was disrupted by protesters from a group called the White Pendragons who shouted pro-Trump and pro-Brexit slogans.
The Mayor sat down and flicked through a newspaper while police escorted the demonstrators away. (Sky News)
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
I like that last bit tbh.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
PorFavor wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ter-brexitHammond: EU leaders 'paranoid' that other nations will leave after Brexit
Chancellor tells Die Welt newspaper that EU leaders are fixated on punishing Britain, rather than looking ahead to building post-Brexit trade (Guardian)
You'd probably ask them why they're 'leaving a successful thriving club' and point out that the future cost of accessing the club's facilities would be higher, and,oh hang on ....I can understand that paranoia. But imagine you are running a successful, thriving club. If one member leaves, you don’t immediately panic that all the other members might leave, but are confident they will want to remain.
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
I was a bit disappointed that, in the photo', Sadiq Khan wasn't in his customary "popinjay" garb. (Boris Johnson appears not to even know what the word means. Prat.)AnatolyKasparov wrote:I like that last bit tbh.
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
I was able to access the article by googling the title. It makes some good points. Particularly how constitutions don't protect democracies, it's people upholding those constitutions that protects them. Checks and balances both here and in the States are being severely tested right now and although it seems likely those checks and balances will maintain democracy in our respective countries, I certainly don't take it for granted.frog222 wrote:https://www.ft.com/content/a2553db2-f6b ... 65a6ce1a00
Fire, fury and the real trouble with Trump
The discord revealed in Michael Wolff’s exposé is all too plausible. Yet behind it is a story that should worry us much more
I’m not copying the article, but it’s worth registering for the free read .
Books recommended are David Frum’s Trumpocracy and How Democracies Die by Levitsky and Ziblatt
Who wrote " It can't happen here ?"
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
gilsey wrote:Brexit won't force any govt to destroy the NHS afterwards, either, and I'm getting sick of seeing remainers say it will as if that's a clinching argument, it's Project Fear all over again and it didn't work very well last time.howsillyofme1 wrote: The acute problem is current Tory policies.....Brexit didn't force them to destroy the NHS
Brexit will be very bad for workforce management and medical science collaboration, but funding will still be a political decision. The NHS can be be mitigation for Brexit.
I do not understand the last.
Brexit will make the NHS worse. It already is. Almost everything turns in it.
Streeting is obviously right, but the leadership have no interest, and the claims about giving power to members (who agree with Streeting on SM and CU) just bullshit.
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
(another prat reference:)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/t ... u-11840714" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Theresa May is a plastic prat: THIS is how you save the planet"
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/t ... u-11840714" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Theresa May is a plastic prat: THIS is how you save the planet"
Yesterday the most powerful woman in the country declared her intention to save us all from the plastic menace within 25 years.
Leaving aside the fact Theresa May would be 86 by then and she would require a Mugabe-like grip on power to be in a position to do anything about it, as an aside she claimed that she was doing her bit not by introducing any kind of legislation but by putting up a bat box in her Berkshire garden.
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
I accept that most party members would like that to be the ultimate destination, they may not all agree on the best way of trying to get there however.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Meanwhile, all not quite so well in the tory camp
Nick Timothy, a propped up PM and the weird plot to make Gavin Williamson Tory leader
BY IAIN MARTIN | IAINMARTIN1 / 13 JANUARY 2018
https://reaction.life/nick-timothy-prop ... ry-leader/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nick Timothy, a propped up PM and the weird plot to make Gavin Williamson Tory leader
BY IAIN MARTIN | IAINMARTIN1 / 13 JANUARY 2018
https://reaction.life/nick-timothy-prop ... ry-leader/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Anna Soubry MPVerified account
@Anna_Soubry
More Anna Soubry MP Retweeted Iain Martin
I fear your analysis & commentary is spot on. We will see whether the plea in your conclusion is followed or not ...
@Anna_Soubry
More Anna Soubry MP Retweeted Iain Martin
I fear your analysis & commentary is spot on. We will see whether the plea in your conclusion is followed or not ...
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
@AngryAsWell
Thanks for the "apostrophe of Bone"!
Thanks for the "apostrophe of Bone"!
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
I thought you would like thatPorFavor wrote:@AngryAsWell
Thanks for the "apostrophe of Bone"!
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I accept that most party members would like that to be the ultimate destination, they may not all agree on the best way of trying to get there however.
I don't understand that either. Sounds like the usual woolly "focus in the ends" or ""we want no tariff barriers" balls MDcDonnell comes out with.
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Saw Three Billboards last night.
Ex.Cell.Ent
[youtube]U1qVtt9OFBs[/youtube]
Ex.Cell.Ent
[youtube]U1qVtt9OFBs[/youtube]
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Carl DinnenVerified account
@carldinnen
Amazing. The US Embassy has issued its own statement this evening apparently correcting the US President on the building costs.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
@carldinnen
Amazing. The US Embassy has issued its own statement this evening apparently correcting the US President on the building costs.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
[youtube]vV3ByPTPEQ4[/youtube]SpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:I accept that most party members would like that to be the ultimate destination, they may not all agree on the best way of trying to get there however.
I don't understand that either. Sounds like the usual woolly "focus in the ends" or ""we want no tariff barriers" balls MDcDonnell comes out with.
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
https://news.sky.com/story/carillion-te ... n-11205705https://news.sky.com/story/trump-suppor ... t-11205566
Carillion could crash into administration as soon as Monday if the Government does not back a rescue plan, Sky News learns.
Britain's second-largest construction group is on the brink of collapse this weekend as its directors plot last-ditch talks aimed at securing new financial guarantees from ministers.
Sky News has learnt that Carillion, which is building the HS2 high-speed rail link and other big Government infrastructure projects, could crash into administration as soon as Monday.
Its fate hangs on the outcome of emergency talks due to take place on Sunday with Whitehall officials. (Sky News- my emphasis)
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Jessica Eaton
@Jessicae13Eaton
Oh I needed a laugh. This made me full on LOL.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
@Jessicae13Eaton
Oh I needed a laugh. This made me full on LOL.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Thanks!AngryAsWell wrote:Jessica Eaton
@Jessicae13Eaton
Oh I needed a laugh. This made me full on LOL.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
I may have said it before, but it bears repeating.
The fatuous "focus on the ends" stuff is exactly the rhetorical device Corbyn uses on foreign policy.
"What would you do about Syria and the butcher Assad?"
"I favour peace and a political solution."
We can all agree that n nice ends ("everything being lovely"). Politics is about how we achieve that, which involves difficult choices.
The fatuous "focus on the ends" stuff is exactly the rhetorical device Corbyn uses on foreign policy.
"What would you do about Syria and the butcher Assad?"
"I favour peace and a political solution."
We can all agree that n nice ends ("everything being lovely"). Politics is about how we achieve that, which involves difficult choices.
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Hard Brexit is becoming structurally poorer. It's a much bigger deal that some bad fiscal policy for a few years.AnatolyKasparov wrote:The ones who irk me are those who go on about "Brexit making austerity worse" when they didn't give a monkey's about austerity before June 23 2016.gilsey wrote:Brexit won't force any govt to destroy the NHS afterwards, either, and I'm getting sick of seeing remainers say it will as if that's a clinching argument, it's Project Fear all over again and it didn't work very well last time.howsillyofme1 wrote: The acute problem is current Tory policies.....Brexit didn't force them to destroy the NHS
Brexit will be very bad for workforce management and medical science collaboration, but funding will still be a political decision. The NHS can be be mitigation for Brexit.
(if this was a case of that day genuinely opening their minds as to why Brexit happened, it would be a different matter - but most of the time, its not)
Most of the Labour Remainers were perfectly happy with Ed Balls' fiscal policy from 2015 onwards, which (assuming he stuck to it) needed no more than £1bn of austerity, per the IFS.
Brexit happened because of old people.
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
And austerity is something of which there are considerable variations in size and distribution.
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
It seems not everyone is completely convinced by the veracity of Donald Trump's medical report released yesterday that declared him to be in excellent health:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I suspect Trump is unlikely to agree to release anything more revealing than current height and weight and he doesn't actually have to, so the whole embarrassing charade isn't even necessary.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I suspect Trump is unlikely to agree to release anything more revealing than current height and weight and he doesn't actually have to, so the whole embarrassing charade isn't even necessary.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Good-afternoon
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
On a more positive note, I'm delighted with the appointment of a Minister for Buses.
One thing that irritates me with rail is the delays with getting smart ticketing going across the network. The DfT (who've had big departmental cost cuts) ought to have got this done yonks ago.
I don't know how hard it is to do this with buses.
One thing that irritates me with rail is the delays with getting smart ticketing going across the network. The DfT (who've had big departmental cost cuts) ought to have got this done yonks ago.
I don't know how hard it is to do this with buses.
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
From the FT about Carillion:
Assuming these contracts are with the government, don't these "huge writedowns" rather suggest that government outsourcing isn't quite the guaranteed freebie we keep hearing?Carillion has been struggling for survival since last July, when soaring debts and huge writedowns on the value of several old contracts sparked the first in a series of profit warnings and the departure of its chief executive.
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Tubby Isaacs wrote:On a more positive note, I'm delighted with the appointment of a Minister for Buses.
One thing that irritates me with rail is the delays with getting smart ticketing going across the network. The DfT (who've had big departmental cost cuts) ought to have got this done yonks ago.
I don't know how hard it is to do this with buses.
I strongly agree, fwiiw.
If people don't know about it, the app citymapper is a wonder of the world, and will increase the use of public transport (and probably has done already), in particular buses. It is well worth using. In London (and whenever travelling in a City I don't know) it means I use buses far more often,
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Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
The snap survey – conducted after Brexit architect Nigel Farage made an unexpected call for a second referendum – found 55 per cent would opt to remain in the EU and 45 per cent to leave if there was another vote. The original vote was 52 per cent to 48 per cent in favour of Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54946.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9711
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
Over politeness or can't be arsedness being the key barrier:
Barking.The ComRes poll, for the Daily Mirror, found 43 per cent of voters backed the prospect of a second referendum while 51 per cent opposed the idea.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th January 2018
On a couple of comments above
Of course Brexit will have an impact on the NHS - no-one sensibly denies that but the argument is that is that it is completely disingenuous (and in my view dangerous) to suggest that all current acute problems with the NHS, and other public services is due to it.
The acute issues in social care, the NHS and public infrastructure were already coming before June 2016 - they take a number of years to manifest and were due mainly to Osborne's disastrous economic policies post-2015
The Tories were aided by some Labour politicians providing cover by agreeing that the economic situation was caused by over-spending by Labour in the Brown years and allowing the Tories some cover for their failed policy
It does not matter if thlse Labour politicians accepted a less brutal form of austerity - the damage was done by them accepting the merit of what Osborne was doing
Another suggest 'Streeting is obviously right' - I despise the intellectual weakness of such a statement. How do we know he is 'obviously' right? The same poster was equally strident in their predictions previously without ever being right. i would excpect such a demonstrated level of incompetence would bring some humility - clearly not
For the poster, and Tubby who liked the post so I assume agrees with it, can you please look at the first post I made today and explain how such a solution is in anyway politically stable and also why the to announce it nnow is so absolutely imperative? From an economic point of view I can see the merit but the issue I have is political
I may well be wrong so would never use the word 'obviously' - to do so requires the user to explain clearly why it is so
Of course Brexit will have an impact on the NHS - no-one sensibly denies that but the argument is that is that it is completely disingenuous (and in my view dangerous) to suggest that all current acute problems with the NHS, and other public services is due to it.
The acute issues in social care, the NHS and public infrastructure were already coming before June 2016 - they take a number of years to manifest and were due mainly to Osborne's disastrous economic policies post-2015
The Tories were aided by some Labour politicians providing cover by agreeing that the economic situation was caused by over-spending by Labour in the Brown years and allowing the Tories some cover for their failed policy
It does not matter if thlse Labour politicians accepted a less brutal form of austerity - the damage was done by them accepting the merit of what Osborne was doing
Another suggest 'Streeting is obviously right' - I despise the intellectual weakness of such a statement. How do we know he is 'obviously' right? The same poster was equally strident in their predictions previously without ever being right. i would excpect such a demonstrated level of incompetence would bring some humility - clearly not
For the poster, and Tubby who liked the post so I assume agrees with it, can you please look at the first post I made today and explain how such a solution is in anyway politically stable and also why the to announce it nnow is so absolutely imperative? From an economic point of view I can see the merit but the issue I have is political
I may well be wrong so would never use the word 'obviously' - to do so requires the user to explain clearly why it is so