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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 7:10 am 
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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 7:20 am 
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"Sleep soundly tonight",granted I know where the cameras are,or more importantly aren't but I'm already pushing it with 27 toilet breaks.Computer was hacked which doesn't effect me but not much else could be done.

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 7:24 am 
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Day 2 tropical fish sitting.Mary playing Suduko Mungo and Midge table tennis.

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 8:06 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -reference


Policy paper

Review of post-18 education and funding: terms of reference


Wonder how Roger's debriefing visit to Oxford is going

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 9:48 am 
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It's all going so well for May


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 10:21 am 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true

Quote:
David Davis: bullish wheel-greaser or Brexit fall guy?
The Brexit secretary started the negotiations to exit the EU full of bounce and bluster – but No 10 subterfuge and hard economic reality have taken their toll


More interesting than the headline suggests. Gives a glimpse of the Brexit train wreck from inside government:

Quote:
The decision to invoke article 50 by March 2017 was made quickly and with little consultation. Even top civil servants at the heart of the Brexit process were given just 24 hours’ notice of Downing Street’s intention to publicly set the clock ticking and commit the country to a historic departure come what may.

Nervous officials responded by putting more of their advice in writing so that there was an audit trail of what they felt was a “major strategic and tactical mistake” to trigger the start of exit negotiations so early. “[The prime minister] is going to turn around to us in the middle of 2017 and say, ‘Why the hell didn’t you tell me that before?’” one of her top advisers was warned. “We are not educating her fast enough about the reality.”

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 10:29 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 11:39 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/20/david-davis-bullish-wheel-greaser-or-brexit-fall-guy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

Quote:
David Davis: bullish wheel-greaser or Brexit fall guy?
The Brexit secretary started the negotiations to exit the EU full of bounce and bluster – but No 10 subterfuge and hard economic reality have taken their toll


More interesting than the headline suggests. Gives a glimpse of the Brexit train wreck from inside government:

Quote:
The decision to invoke article 50 by March 2017 was made quickly and with little consultation. Even top civil servants at the heart of the Brexit process were given just 24 hours’ notice of Downing Street’s intention to publicly set the clock ticking and commit the country to a historic departure come what may.

Nervous officials responded by putting more of their advice in writing so that there was an audit trail of what they felt was a “major strategic and tactical mistake” to trigger the start of exit negotiations so early. “[The prime minister] is going to turn around to us in the middle of 2017 and say, ‘Why the hell didn’t you tell me that before?’” one of her top advisers was warned. “We are not educating her fast enough about the reality.”


Thanks Willow, quite a long read but well worth it . A few of the many posssible snippets --

"DExEU bristles at the suggestion that it has been largely written out of the Brexit story, recently denying that meetings between Barnier and Robbins without Davis were a sign he had been irretrievably sidelined. It blamed the rumours on Brussels troublemakers.

Yet a similar process has arguably been under way on the EU side, where German deputy Sabine Weyand is now seen as pulling the strings. “Olly and Sabine are the real players,” confirms a UK official. “Barnier is vain, bombastic, himself quite idle, abler and more experienced than Davis as a negotiator, but the brains of the outfit is Sabine Weyand and the people beneath her.”
...
"Even Robbins is said to have been on a steep learning curve, having largely worked on security matters before being parachuted into his EU role. An official who worked to bring him up to speed says: “To go through the biggest single negotiation with someone who has got no background in the current treaties, doesn’t know what the customs union is, doesn’t know what the single market it, has a hazy knowledge of EU budgets … only the British would do it like that.
”"
...
...
"“We just can’t cope with it,” agrees the DExEU source. “We don’t have the wisdom in the system. The political class can’t cope with the complexity of it.”"

The other anecdotal bits are fascinating, so worth a full read .

It doesn't look encouraging from any angle, unless you are a bremoaner praying that the UK 'negotiators' all have a collective mental breakdown .

Or mutiny .

EEK !


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 11:42 am 
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David Davis (aka "The Lawnmower Man") seems to have come up with a plan. We are to become an EU accession contender. Perhaps.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 11:51 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/20/david-davis-bullish-wheel-greaser-or-brexit-fall-guy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

Quote:
David Davis: bullish wheel-greaser or Brexit fall guy?
The Brexit secretary started the negotiations to exit the EU full of bounce and bluster – but No 10 subterfuge and hard economic reality have taken their toll


More interesting than the headline suggests. Gives a glimpse of the Brexit train wreck from inside government:

Quote:
The decision to invoke article 50 by March 2017 was made quickly and with little consultation. Even top civil servants at the heart of the Brexit process were given just 24 hours’ notice of Downing Street’s intention to publicly set the clock ticking and commit the country to a historic departure come what may.

Nervous officials responded by putting more of their advice in writing so that there was an audit trail of what they felt was a “major strategic and tactical mistake” to trigger the start of exit negotiations so early. “[The prime minister] is going to turn around to us in the middle of 2017 and say, ‘Why the hell didn’t you tell me that before?’” one of her top advisers was warned. “We are not educating her fast enough about the reality.”


What an unbelievable disaster triggering article 50 without conditions was. Nobody can say they were not told.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 11:55 am 
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Youthquake

https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2018/02/%E2%8 ... uake.html/

makes the Tory proposals on tuition fees even more bonkers.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 11:56 am 
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Gove calls for thousands of foreign workers to continue to be allowed to come to work on Britain's farms after Brexit

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 70941.html


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Afternoon

The error was the Tory Government calling a vote on A50 when they did with no planning

How Labour voted was dictated by political considerations of the consequences of a futile vote sgsinst

The Tories had a majority and they voted pretty much as a block.....not even supporting the amendments

Tory referendum and a Tory Brexit. Some people seem to be unable to accept that


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:05 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/20/david-davis-bullish-wheel-greaser-or-brexit-fall-guy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

Quote:
David Davis: bullish wheel-greaser or Brexit fall guy?
The Brexit secretary started the negotiations to exit the EU full of bounce and bluster – but No 10 subterfuge and hard economic reality have taken their toll


More interesting than the headline suggests. Gives a glimpse of the Brexit train wreck from inside government:

Quote:
The decision to invoke article 50 by March 2017 was made quickly and with little consultation. Even top civil servants at the heart of the Brexit process were given just 24 hours’ notice of Downing Street’s intention to publicly set the clock ticking and commit the country to a historic departure come what may.

Nervous officials responded by putting more of their advice in writing so that there was an audit trail of what they felt was a “major strategic and tactical mistake” to trigger the start of exit negotiations so early. “[The prime minister] is going to turn around to us in the middle of 2017 and say, ‘Why the hell didn’t you tell me that before?’” one of her top advisers was warned. “We are not educating her fast enough about the reality.”

Yes the Mad Max comment reminded me of times when I thought I'd plan something nice for the family, didn't check with them they actually wanted it and ignored warning signs from my wife.

The sort of things you end up saying in such situations are "Well at least it was better than when we went to see evil Uncle Geoffrey."


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Brexit and food - what could it all mean for the British baked potato?

(On R4 now)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:11 pm 
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http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/02 ... tish-succe


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Further to the last post, my guess history will consider the timing of the A50 vote as being important not the vote itself, coupled with the abject planning

I have seen no evidence that any different approach from Labour would have stopped A50 once before Parliament....and so the decision on how to vote became focused on the political consequences of voting for or against

The timing of the vote and the lack of planning is down to the Tory Government

There can be justified criticism of how Labour approached the vote and an argument is there for them voting differently. In the passage of Brexit though the Labour vote was not that important, unless you believe that by voting the way they did was partly responsible for the prevention of a clear Tory majority at the subsequent election


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:21 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Youthquake

https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2018/02/%E2%8 ... uake.html/

makes the Tory proposals on tuition fees even more bonkers.


If true, it makes the underlying Tory position worse not better.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:25 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Youthquake

https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2018/02/%E2%8 ... uake.html/

makes the Tory proposals on tuition fees even more bonkers.


If true, it makes the underlying Tory position worse not better.



of course, that being the point.

Why would it not be true? Surely the data is all now in?


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Very useful indeed on landbanks and unimplemented planning permissions being the cause of the housing crisis

http://lichfields.uk/blog/2018/february ... ons-again/


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:33 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Youthquake

https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2018/02/%E2%8 ... uake.html/

makes the Tory proposals on tuition fees even more bonkers.


If true, it makes the underlying Tory position worse not better.



of course, that being the point.

Why would it not be true? Surely the data is all now in?


Well, the BEC only had a small sample of young voters in their survey and that's why that finding got questioned.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:40 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:

Well, the BEC only had a small sample of young voters in their survey and that's why that finding got questioned.


I assume you mean BES, but we're surely at the point of accepting that those criticisms have no statistical credibility. See the link I gave and

http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes ... owWrSXFJaR

Have you any serious analysis still doubting this?

There just was no youthquake. Which means the Tories targeting people under 25 is stupid, they need to be looking to 25-44 year olds. Target schools, no HE for example.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:41 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Very useful indeed on landbanks and unimplemented planning permissions being the cause of the housing crisis

http://lichfields.uk/blog/2018/february ... ons-again/



'the cause' - what the only one and nothing else matters?

How about using 'a cause' or 'a significant cause'?


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 1:12 pm 
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AngryAsWell wrote:
Brexit and food - what could it all mean for the British baked potato?

(On R4 now)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4



Listen again , or podcast , available here --

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09rxyjs

<b>Cheap and Plentiful </b> The Global Farm, Series 1 Episode 2 of 3

Charlotte Smith continues her investigation into the complex global food networks that are able to give us what we want to eat, whenever we want it. In episode two, Charlotte looks at how money flows around the food chain and at the drive for ever more efficient production. Why have the Netherlands been so successful both as producers and exporters of food - and how are fraudsters making money out of the complexities of the global food system?

Extremely complex system, emphasised most mornings on Farming Today, Radio4 .


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Just an observation, but we joined the common market in 1973, so the 25-44 age bracket is the first that has always been part of a wider European community and has never known anything else.

They are also the ones who would have missed out on some of their inheritance currently tied up in their parents' homes if Theresa May's "dementia tax" had come in.

Though really which age voted most and for what is almost beside the point. The lesson is that to win elections you always need to offer something to everyone. Mitt Romney's dismissal of 47% of the population pretty much illustrating the point.

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 1:16 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:
Very useful indeed on landbanks and unimplemented planning permissions being the cause of the housing crisis

http://lichfields.uk/blog/2018/february ... ons-again/


I've only skimmed this as I'm on my way out.
Does it take into account that planning permissions are valid for three years and that building work must be started within that time frame. However, once started (foundations dug for at least one building counts as "started") then work can stop until such a time as the developer wishes to continue (property price rise in the area being one reason to re start work). So if "work" does not commence until last week of the 3 years permission (just in time planning permission retention) a developer can - legitimately - stop work for as long as they wish once the first foundations are down. Meaning a site can be technically under construction for several years with no houses finished during that time. Classic "land banking" actions. And yes I have seen this done.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Quote:
Peter Walker

Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, has given a speech to the conference of the EEF, which represents manufacturers, and it’s fair to say it wasn’t full of new insights.

Brexit would bring no new trade barriers, Fox said - but added that he could not as yet give any details as to precisely what the government’s strategy for it was. With that, he bounded off on the stage towards an exit at such speech[sic]* - that not even a hand could be raised for a question. (Politics Live, Guardian)


*speed, presumably


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 1:31 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Very useful indeed on landbanks and unimplemented planning permissions being the cause of the housing crisis

http://lichfields.uk/blog/2018/february ... ons-again/



'the cause' - what the only one and nothing else matters?

How about using 'a cause' or 'a significant cause'?


Indeed, very few things have only a single cause.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:31 pm 
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The title of the album is very apt - especially if "UK" is substituted for "England".


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:39 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
The political class can’t cope with the complexity of it.

See also this (long) thread I saw yesterday.
https://twitter.com/garrethhayes/status ... 8028819456
Quote:
Garreth Hayes


@garrethhayes
Feb 18
More
That’s why Brexiteers seem helpless now they need to come up with their own policy solutions. Because policy requires detail. And Brexit is about denying the need for detail /8

More
Asking a Brexiteer to be specific about detail is like asking a whale to describe a space rocket /10


Then there was Dorries the other day saying we must leave the CU because it's so complicated. Dear me.
However low an opinion of the political class we have, she really must be near the bottom of the scale.

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:45 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
frog222 wrote:
The political class can’t cope with the complexity of it.

See also this (long) thread I saw yesterday.
https://twitter.com/garrethhayes/status ... 8028819456
Quote:
Garreth Hayes


@garrethhayes
Feb 18
More
That’s why Brexiteers seem helpless now they need to come up with their own policy solutions. Because policy requires detail. And Brexit is about denying the need for detail /8

More
Asking a Brexiteer to be specific about detail is like asking a whale to describe a space rocket /10


Then there was Dorries the other day saying we must leave the CU because it's so complicated. Dear me.
However low an opinion of the political class we have, she really must be near the bottom of the scale.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Whoops!


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:57 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Indeed, very few things have only a single cause.


in the physical universe in which you find yourself, nothing can be the sole cause of anything other than itself. X+0 = X

The point about the landbanks piece is that landbanks aren't making any contribution at all. It is a myth. The usual hoarders conspiracy theory you always get in all times and places when there is a shortage.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Ooof, some hard data here

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/opin ... tates.html


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:23 pm 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ce#history


We're seeking views on the impact of data-sharing arrangements under the memorandum of understanding on the health and healthcare-seeking behaviour of migrants.

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:25 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... acy-brabin


More than 500 children's centres have closed in England since 2010

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:28 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... m-benefits


Let’s tell the truth about poverty – and stop this assault on welfare
Mary O'Hara

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:56 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e#comments


Benefit sanctions are punishing disabled people for the sake of it

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:03 pm 
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More on Special Agent Corbyn

http://littleatoms.com/corbyns-spy-connection-and-me


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:07 pm 
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"Time rich"(apparently) can only say even excluding the "extra" general,the specific exceeded the WTD in my observed/related experience

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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:43 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:


a marginally interesting snippet of a by-gone era which no longer exits......of no relevance to the current day and definitely not front page news


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Cost over quality

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... union-says


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:47 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:


a marginally interesting snippet of a by-gone era which no longer exits......of no relevance to the current day and definitely not front page news


Yes, this is basically correct.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:48 pm 
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and me again

I find this journalism really offensive. These people were apparently members of a vicious organisation and should be brought to justice but they have been given this puerile nickname

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... rned-to-uk

Do you agree that this seems to trivialise the alleged actions of these men?


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 5:30 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ays-corbyn
"UK will 'have to have a customs union' post-Brexit, says Corbyn"
Quote:
Asked how Labour’s position on Brexit differed to that of the government, Corbyn said: “We have to have access to European markets, we have to have a customs union that makes sure we can continue that trade, particularly between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. That is key to it.”
He continued: “Being a member of the single market is automatic if you’re a member of the EU. If we’re not in the EU, we’re not automatically a member of it.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 5:34 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
and me again

I find this journalism really offensive. These people were apparently members of a vicious organisation and should be brought to justice but they have been given this puerile nickname

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... rned-to-uk

Do you agree that this seems to trivialise the alleged actions of these men?


I'm a bit in two minds about this one, ridiculing these types is rarely a bad thing and it can be argued there is a touch of that here.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 5:36 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
and me again

I find this journalism really offensive. These people were apparently members of a vicious organisation and should be brought to justice but they have been given this puerile nickname

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... rned-to-uk

Do you agree that this seems to trivialise the alleged actions of these men?


I'm a bit in two minds about this one, ridiculing these types is rarely a bad thing and it can be argued there is a touch of that here.


not thought of that....still don't approve but you may have a point there


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 6:02 pm 
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http://uk.businessinsider.com/european- ... ket-2018-2
"The European Parliament is to call for Britain to have 'privileged' single market access after Brexit"
Quote:
The Parliament, spearheaded by its Brexit spokesperson Guy Verhofstadt, wants negotiations on the future relationship to focus on overall structures, rather than country-specific models such as the Canada option.

Quote:
...Because of this, they must be ratified by the European Parliament, European Council, and the national and regional parliaments of all 27 member states. With this in mind, a comprehensive UK-EU association agreement would likely be similar to the EU-Canada free trade deal (CETA), which took a total of seven years to finally sign off.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Poor old Ann Black

http://www.annblack.co.uk/national-poli ... uary-2018/

sad really.


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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb, 2018 6:20 pm 
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SpinningHugo wrote:


are you a member of the Labour Party

If not, why are you so concerned with the internal mechanisms of the party?

I, for one, don't want your vote and our policies and direction should be far away from yours......


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