Tuesday 10th July 2018
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Tuesday 10th July 2018
Morning all.
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11125
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Morning all.
A view from outside the UK.
A view from outside the UK.
That's the Attorney General of Anguilla...John McKendrick QC
@JohnMQC
18h
18 hours ago
More
Meeting the worst Foreign Secretary we’ve ever had amongst the destruction of Hurricane Irma in Anguilla. Disinterested and out of his depth he cared nothing for our situation. Good riddance
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Maybe you're not feeling sufficiently depressed by domestic issues.......
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Brian Klaas
Verified account
@brianklaas
Following Following @brianklaas
More
1. This week, Donald Trump is acting like the Kremlin's perfect hand grenade, tossed into Europe to blow up the West from within. He is attacking the European order (EU), the Transatlantic security alliance (NATO) & the American-led, rules-based international order simultaneously
10:05 AM - 10 Jul 2018
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Another on the same lines.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dan Shapiro
Verified account
@DanielBShapiro
12h12 hours ago
More
11. Even as I write this, it sounds fantastical. I will be the happiest person on the planet if I look back at this thread and say, man, you were way overreacting. But we need to be ready for this awful scenario to play out.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
@RogerOThornhill
Thanks for posting the John McKendrick "Tweet". I tried umpteen times yesterday and all I got were squirrels. Glad you had more success!
Thanks for posting the John McKendrick "Tweet". I tried umpteen times yesterday and all I got were squirrels. Glad you had more success!
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15694
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
As pointed out in thread below Shapiro's comments, Trump doesn't have the authority to personally withdraw the US from NATO.
He would need Congress approval, and even some in the GOP would balk at that.
His presidency is every bit as bad as many feared, but lets not scare ourselves with (still) highly improbable scenarios.
He would need Congress approval, and even some in the GOP would balk at that.
His presidency is every bit as bad as many feared, but lets not scare ourselves with (still) highly improbable scenarios.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Sajid Javid quoted from the home affairs committee
Or is he just another ignorant fucking idiot who is either willfully or stupidly spilling misinformation about what all of this means, and showing once again how we've ended up in this mess.
So, to be clear, he is saying that May's white paper will reject May's Chequer's agreement, yes? Because 'freedom of movement' means 'free movement of goods, services, capital and labour' and May's Chequer's agreement called for free movement of goods. But the white paper will rule that out.What I can tell you, because the prime minister has said this, so I’m not pre-empting something that’s in the white paper, is that there will be a complete, total end to freedom of movement. Freedom of movement as we understand it today will end, but also there will be no version of that, no derivative of that, no type of free movement, no backdoor version of free movement. Free movement will end.
Or is he just another ignorant fucking idiot who is either willfully or stupidly spilling misinformation about what all of this means, and showing once again how we've ended up in this mess.
I still believe in a town called Hope
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15694
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
RIP Lord Carrington, died on the same day that one of their least worthy successors as Foreign Secretary "resigned".
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... think-tank" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Speech
Amanda Spielman's speech to the Policy Exchange think tank
The Chief Inspector discussed the importance of promoting British values in schools and Ofsted's role in making sure this is done well.
Speech
Amanda Spielman's speech to the Policy Exchange think tank
The Chief Inspector discussed the importance of promoting British values in schools and Ofsted's role in making sure this is done well.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ars-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bank of England should aim to freeze house prices for five years – report
https://www.ippr.org/research/publicati ... rowed-time" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bank of England should aim to freeze house prices for five years – report
https://www.ippr.org/research/publicati ... rowed-time" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15694
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
No more resignations today, then?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
http://www.welfareconditionality.ac.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Final findings report
Welfare Conditionality
Department of Social Policy & Social Work
University of York
Final findings report
Welfare Conditionality
Department of Social Policy & Social Work
University of York
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
The media hasn't held back on raking over the coals of Boris Johnson's career, have they?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/opin ... rexit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/opin ... rexit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Boris Johnson Has Ruined Britain
“He knows that the verdict of history is about to come down on him — and bury him.”
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Good-afternoon, everyone
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15694
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
It was all just a jolly jape to him, with no adverse personal consequences.Willow904 wrote:The media hasn't held back on raking over the coals of Boris Johnson's career, have they?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/opin ... rexit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Boris Johnson Has Ruined Britain
“He knows that the verdict of history is about to come down on him — and bury him.”
Or so he thought........
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Thanks for all the great links
The truth about the brexit dream
YOU HAVE TO BE ASLEEP TO BELIEVE IT
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[youtube]-14SllPPLxY[/youtube]
The truth about the brexit dream
YOU HAVE TO BE ASLEEP TO BELIEVE IT
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[youtube]-14SllPPLxY[/youtube]
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11125
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Just the two resignations today then?
I can see such fun will be had comparing the White Paper - if and when it turns up - with the Chequers document...Alex Wickham
Verified account
@WikiGuido
13m
13 minutes ago
More
Maria Caulfield and Ben Bradley have resigned as Tory vice chairs in protest at Chequers deal
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
I think you may have spoken too soon.AnatolyKasparov wrote:No more resignations today, then?
BTW I'm seeing lots of (supposedly) Corbyn supporting tweets labelling any lefties who think voting for any withdrawal agreement May might be able to secure as somehow traitorous to the cause. Any ideas as to where this might be coming from? Since Grieve bottled it, parliament won't get a proper meaningful vote, so voting against could risk losing the all important transition period & future close relationship with the EU. It risks a no deal Brexit. Not so long ago Emily Thornberry was pointing out any withdrawal agreement is likely to fulfil Labour's 5 tests because the tests are mostly about any future arrangements and the withdrawal agreement is mostly about the divorce bill etc and won't be specific about the future relationship. Therefore voting for the withdrawal agreement (if May gets one & that's a very big if!) would surely be in line with Labour's stated policy. Perhaps I'm reading something into nothing, but this current Twitter activity feels deliberate, co-ordinated & leaves me wondering who is yanking our chains.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
how dare you"It is true that we will have to live with, at least for some years, serious limitations to deregulating some of the laws affecting industry, and negotiating new trade agreements with third countries. But these constraints need not be for ever. As the dust settles, and as British industry adapts to us not being in the EU, we will be able to assert greater freedom even if, over the longer term, we sacrifice some automatic access to European markets. It might take five or 10 years but what is that in the life of a nation?"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Malcolm Rifkind
former Tory MP
former foreign secretary
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Goodnight, everyone
love
cJA
love
cJA
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11125
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
And more to come...
House rises on 24th July so 14 resignations to come then?Tom Newton Dunn
Verified account
@tnewtondunn
Follow
Follow @tnewtondunn
More
Tom Newton Dunn Retweeted Tom Newton Dunn
More to come too. An ERG source warns there will be "one resignation a day until recess" unless No10 agrees to reopen Chequers agreement. Adds: "We still have Cabinet to come".
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15694
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
They seem to be trying to follow the playbook of Corbyn's opponents two years ago. How did that one turn out?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11125
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
*checks date*
Oh.
Oh.
Ben Bradley MP
Verified account
@bbradleymp
Follow
Follow @bbradleymp
More
Whilst everyone gets very excited about Chequers tomorrow, truth is PM has been consistent with her #Brexit wishlist from day one - control of money, borders and laws. We should support her, get behind her and deliver precisely those things!
11:01 PM - 5 Jul 2018
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15694
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Well, it has been made pretty clear by Starmer and others that the Chequers "deal" would not be acceptable to Labour as it stands.Willow904 wrote:I think you may have spoken too soon.AnatolyKasparov wrote:No more resignations today, then?
BTW I'm seeing lots of (supposedly) Corbyn supporting tweets labelling any lefties who think voting for any withdrawal agreement May might be able to secure as somehow traitorous to the cause
Hypothetically speaking, should the possibility remain open of Labour supporting a much improved (from their/our POV) deal? IMO yes it should, but we are a long way from that at present and keeping the pressure on seems like the sensible option.
People on Twitter are also reacting to the likes of Mike Gapes and other Labour MPs almost openly calling for some sort of "national government". Whatever the fantasies of some ERG types, we are not actually at war - the only time that such an arrangement would be remotely acceptable.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
May has her withdrawal bill. She doesn't need them.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, it has been made pretty clear by Starmer and others that the Chequers "deal" would not be acceptable to Labour as it stands.Willow904 wrote:I think you may have spoken too soon.AnatolyKasparov wrote:No more resignations today, then?
BTW I'm seeing lots of (supposedly) Corbyn supporting tweets labelling any lefties who think voting for any withdrawal agreement May might be able to secure as somehow traitorous to the cause
Hypothetically speaking, should the possibility remain open of Labour supporting a much improved (from their/our POV) deal? IMO yes it should, but we are a long way from that at present and keeping the pressure on seems like the sensible option.
People on Twitter are also reacting to the likes of Mike Gapes and other Labour MPs almost openly calling for some sort of "national government". Whatever the fantasies of some ERG types, we are not actually at war - the only time that such an arrangement would be remotely acceptable.
The ball is now in the EU's court. How they respond is key to how this unfolds.
As for "keeping the pressure on", what pressure? What are Labour doing that puts pressure on and to what end?
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Yesterday’s Crace was understandably …. very late !
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-go-wrong" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Today’s came out at 0600, lovely one on footie, and people —
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -southgate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-go-wrong" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Today’s came out at 0600, lovely one on footie, and people —
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -southgate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
There are the Trade Bill and the Taxation Bill next week where the issue of a Customs Union will come up again.Willow904 wrote: May has her withdrawal bill. She doesn't need them.
The ball is now in the EU's court. How they respond is key to how this unfolds.
As for "keeping the pressure on", what pressure? What are Labour doing that puts pressure on and to what end?
I don't know what Labour's plan is, but there is certainly an opportunity to apply pressure.
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11125
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Ah, one of these...always worth reading.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Spoilt people ! We also have Our Daily Crace —
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... an-nations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... an-nations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Dunt -- boris-johnson-was-britain-s-first-post-truth-foreign-secreta
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07 ... gn-secreta" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I like some of Oborne's stuff, but hardly know what to make of this !
PETER-OBORNE-Boris-Johnsons-new-role-Theresa-Mays-dangerous-opponent.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... onent.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07 ... gn-secreta" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I like some of Oborne's stuff, but hardly know what to make of this !
PETER-OBORNE-Boris-Johnsons-new-role-Theresa-Mays-dangerous-opponent.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... onent.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 10th July 2018
Lots of probablies coming right up, but still, let's go for it.....AnatolyKasparov wrote:They seem to be trying to follow the playbook of Corbyn's opponents two years ago. How did that one turn out?
Corbyn did not have the support of his party in the Commons but overwhelmingly did in the country. So he was always likely to lose a confidence vote in the commons and then win a leadership election in the country. (I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but this time it really was always likely).
May has the majority support of her party in the commons, reasonably comfortably by all accounts. When it comes to Europe, she all but certainly does not have the support of her party in the country. So probably she is more than likely to win a confidence vote if one is triggered, and that will be the end of the matter, so far as con MPs being able to force the issue, for a year.
The longer things drag on, though, the more time tory MPs will be spending with their constituents who will probably be telling them 'you must reject May's deal'. It's not impossible that this is what 'team boris' are up to now.
Tory MPs are re-selected on a majority of their association executive or of their associations membership. I think that if they win a majority of the executive they're sorted. I suspect conservative association executives are reasonably representative of the 'you must reject May's deal' wing of the party. probably. Don't really know.
May and what remains of her loyalists, meanwhile, will walk around whispering 'Corbyn and McDonnell' to any conservatives in the commons who will listen to them. She will probably be directly in contact with members in the country saying the same thing.
I suppose the next thing all of this depends upon is how the EU react to our proposals and how May reacts to their reaction. A lot is being made in some quarters of this '80% of a deal' but that really isn't much more than the last time they talked about it. It still seems very unlikely that the EU will blink on freedoms of movement, or regulatory alignment, or ECJ oversight.
I still believe in a town called Hope