Monday 15th October 2018
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Monday 15th October 2018
Morning all.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
The cost of austerity:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 6.html?amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So very political and more money to treat symptoms is not the answer. The cause needs to be tackled at source. The Tories need to be ejected from government if child mortality rates are to improve.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 6.html?amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Child poverty is a major factor, as mentioned in this article, while the G version also mentions chronic respiratory conditions, so air pollution may play a part.Children in England are more likely to die in infancy than their European counterparts and are set to be left further behind on a range of health measures unless the government and NHS act now, a major report warns.
So very political and more money to treat symptoms is not the answer. The cause needs to be tackled at source. The Tories need to be ejected from government if child mortality rates are to improve.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
This is interesting.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Ejected to another planet would be my preference.
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-l ... s-strategy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PM launches Government’s first loneliness strategy
If only there had been an already existing method to combat social isolation and they hadn't heightened eligibility by legislation.
PM launches Government’s first loneliness strategy
If only there had been an already existing method to combat social isolation and they hadn't heightened eligibility by legislation.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Good-morning, everyone
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Please wake up, PorFavor.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Just saw a clip of Starmer with Victoria Derbyshire earlier, saying choice only between May's deal and no deal was unacceptable.Willow904 wrote:This is interesting.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
It is unacceptable.gilsey wrote:Just saw a clip of Starmer with Victoria Derbyshire earlier, saying choice only between May's deal and no deal was unacceptable.Willow904 wrote:This is interesting.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That doesn't mean that isn't what we'll end up with, though.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
A few numbers in this Twitter thread help to underline how UC design flaws plus huge benefits cuts have combined to impoverish children in particular, though also the sick and disabled and anyone who needs help with housing, in a deliberate and systematic manner:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As have been the repeated refusals to do cumulative impact assessments of the combination of benefit changes and cuts on particular individuals hence we end up with this:
We all know what's been happening, but these numbers, listed all together, are still pretty shocking.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cutting the link between benefits and the cost of living was a hugely damaging move by Osborne but passed by the press with barely a whimper and I still struggle to understand why a much bigger fuss wasn't made over a policy which basically said "we will no longer ensure benefits provide the bare minimum someone needs to live on". It's disgraceful.Josephine Tucker
@josietucker
·
Oct 14
The freeze on working-age benefits is the biggest single cut - for years support hasn’t risen with rents or inflation. Over the decade failure to uprate benefits properly will cost the poorest 10% of households over 10% of their income. (link: http://www.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/fi ... 0FINAL.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) cpag.org.uk/sites/default/… (3/18)
As have been the repeated refusals to do cumulative impact assessments of the combination of benefit changes and cuts on particular individuals hence we end up with this:
tJosephine Tucker
@josietucker
·
Oct 14
For some people these losses add up to be mind-bendingly large. A disabled single parent with a disabled child, for example, loses on average nearly £10,000 a year in support from tax/benefit reforms this decade. (link: https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sit ... report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/… (8/18)
We all know what's been happening, but these numbers, listed all together, are still pretty shocking.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
With all of the bluster going on this morning it's very very difficult to see how the government can step back from the brink and actually carry their own supporters with them. Party or Country for May? I'm not holding my breath.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
not necessarily connected, but maybe relevant:Willow904 wrote:This is interesting.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... today/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Sinn Féin leader to talk Brexit with May and Corbyn today"
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Probably overwhelmed with emotion over royal baby news.citizenJA wrote:Please wake up, PorFavor.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
edit - better late than never.
We are poorly served by our politicians and media.Paul Johnson
Verified account
@PJTheEconomist
4h4 hours ago
More
4) None of this is news. We've known about welfare cuts since 2015 (most are implemented) and much about impact of Universal Credit since 2012. Why does it take until now for the flurry of political concern?
edit - better late than never.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Theresa May will make a statement to MPs this afternoon about the Brexit talks. Prime ministers always make Commons statements after EU summits. But to give one two days before a summit is very unusual. Perhaps she intends to lay down some negotiating red lines. The statement will start at 3.30, unless there are urgent questions, in which case it will be delayed for half an hour or more.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
I hadn't heard. But now that I have, you're quite right. I'm overwhelmed, etc.tinybgoat wrote:Probably overwhelmed with emotion over royal baby news.citizenJA wrote:Please wake up, PorFavor.
(I've come over all Brenda from Bristol.)
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Good morfternoon.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
While Labour doesn't want to be seen to be voting for May's brexit, a withdrawal deal agreed by cross-party consensus would be another matter. I doubt May has the ability or authority to achieve this, though, so I suspect it's more a case of "look, we tried".tinybgoat wrote:not necessarily connected, but maybe relevant:Willow904 wrote:This is interesting.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... today/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Sinn Féin leader to talk Brexit with May and Corbyn today"
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Theresa May to make some sort of announcement to the Commons some time later today (BBC News).
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
@gilsey
Whoops - sorry.
Whoops - sorry.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Willow904 wrote:While Labour doesn't want to be seen to be voting for May's brexit, a withdrawal deal agreed by cross-party consensus would be another matter. I doubt May has the ability or authority to achieve this, though, so I suspect it's more a case of "look, we tried".tinybgoat wrote:not necessarily connected, but maybe relevant:Willow904 wrote:This is interesting.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit- ... today/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Sinn Féin leader to talk Brexit with May and Corbyn today"
"Idiosyncracies" of the DUP?
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dations-upWhat’s the point of growth if it creates so much misery? (Guardian)
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Sturgeon's come out for SM + CU.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
It didn't help that certain "extremely sensible" elements within Labour constantly moaned that it was a waste of time opposing this stuff.gilsey wrote:We are poorly served by our politicians and media.Paul Johnson
Verified account
@PJTheEconomist
4h4 hours ago
More
4) None of this is news. We've known about welfare cuts since 2015 (most are implemented) and much about impact of Universal Credit since 2012. Why does it take until now for the flurry of political concern?
edit - better late than never.
(when they weren't actually cheering it on, that is)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Sinn Fein say they will call for a Border Poll immediately if the UK crashes out of the EU without a deal.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Its All Just Going Swimmingly, part 94.adam wrote:Sinn Fein say they will call for a Border Poll immediately if the UK crashes out of the EU without a deal.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
And she's off . . .
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
It appears to be the rank outsider 'Everything you have read and heard about the weekend is wrong' speech.PorFavor wrote:And she's off . . .
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
The backstop that was agreed was not to be temporary.
May says the UK cannot accept a backstop that could go on forever.
I've lost my will to live again.
May says the UK cannot accept a backstop that could go on forever.
I've lost my will to live again.
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
RIP Patricia Hollis
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45866798" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45866798" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by HindleA on Mon 15 Oct, 2018 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
[youtube]2d2IXbwaaQc[/youtube]
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
tinybgoat wrote:Probably overwhelmed with emotion over royal baby news.citizenJA wrote:Please wake up, PorFavor.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
thank goodness you're herePorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
From the G:
Has anyone heard this one before about an Irish sea border being illegal? I thought there were already a small number of border checks between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain, so I assume Rees-Mogg is talking about a more general principle, but is it really a legal problem or just a political issue?Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leading Tory Brexiter, asks why British negotiators ignored the point about having a customs border down the Irish Sea being illegal.
May says her negotiators did not ignore that.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
(cJA emphasis)Contingent Liability Notification: Written statement - HCWS1009 - Treasury - 15 October 2018
John Glen (The Economic Secretary to the Treasury)
I can today confirm that I have laid a Treasury Minute informing the House of the contingent liability that HM Treasury has taken on
in authorising the sale of a portfolio of Bradford & Bingley (B&B) and NRAM loans acquired during the financial crisis under the last
Labour Government.
On this occasion, due to the sensitivities surrounding the commercial negotiation of this sale, it has not been possible to notify
Parliament of the particulars of the liability in advance of the sale announcement.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... 5/HCWS1009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tory government's commercial negotiations mean no democratic accountability
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Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Well, that would be interesting...Jack Maidment
Verified account
@jrmaidment
14m14 minutes ago
More
Theresa May hints MPs could block no-deal Brexit
“If it were the case at the end of the negotiation process actually it was a no deal... then actually that would come back to this House & then we would see what position this House would take in the circumstances of the time.”
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Kay Burley (Sky News) just referred to the "eponymous" Boris Johnson. Stupid woman (KB).
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Think it was this:Willow904 wrote:From the G:
Has anyone heard this one before about an Irish sea border being illegal? I thought there were already a small number of border checks between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain, so I assume Rees-Mogg is talking about a more general principle, but is it really a legal problem or just a political issue?Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leading Tory Brexiter, asks why British negotiators ignored the point about having a customs border down the Irish Sea being illegal.
May says her negotiators did not ignore that.
http://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/nort ... 26116.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
but think there was talk over summer of house of lords finding some way to allow house of commons to reconsider it.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
from 12th September
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-commons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-commons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The taxation (cross-border trade) bill, was amended at the behest of Jacob Rees-Mogg’s European Research Group (ERG) to outlaw a customs border in the Irish Sea, and force the government to legislate before it could join a customs union, among other issues.
As the legislation passes through the Lords, peers are unable to amend it, because it has been designated an “aids and supply bill”.
But Smith’s team have received advice from experts in parliamentary procedure that they can help to reopen debate about the amendments, by attaching them to a separate piece of legislation – the trade bill, also currently passing through the Lords.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Quite. Fairly obvious - not to David Cameron, of course.Steve richards @steverichards14
May is twisting and turning in increasingly contorted attempts to keep her government together. Brexit hardliners forced the weak Cameron to hold the referendum when few wanted one. Now May similarly weak. A braver PM wd state there’s only one solution to Irish Question : Remain
3:54 PM - Oct 15, 2018 (Politics Live, Guardian)
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
She was one of my first year tutors when I was an undergraduate (mumble mumble everyone I know is dying mumble mumble)AnatolyKasparov wrote:Indeed, a sad loss.
(Apologies, I know it's not funny in any way but you know what I mean).
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
tinybgoat wrote:Think it was this:Willow904 wrote:From the G:
Has anyone heard this one before about an Irish sea border being illegal? I thought there were already a small number of border checks between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain, so I assume Rees-Mogg is talking about a more general principle, but is it really a legal problem or just a political issue?Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leading Tory Brexiter, asks why British negotiators ignored the point about having a customs border down the Irish Sea being illegal.
May says her negotiators did not ignore that.
http://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/nort ... 26116.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
but think there was talk over summer of house of lords finding some way to allow house of commons to reconsider it.
Thanks tinybgoat. That does appear to be what Rees-Mogg was referring to and I'd call that a political issue rather than a legal one myself. A straightjacket the government has made for itself. And what exactly were Grieve, Soubry et al doing when that amendment came up. Pfft!
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Pfft! perhaps, but how many pages of legislation were there to read through ?
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
ITMA !
” First as tragedy, then as farce. And when that’s exhausted, all that’s left is a third-rate village pantomime. Brexit can make fools of the cleverest people, so has a field day making fools of fools. As a general rule when you haven’t got anything to say, it’s best to say nothing. But Theresa May is now so hopelessly crushed and disorientated, she felt obliged to come to the Commons to give a statement on what hadn’t happened. She hoped this made her sound as if she was still in control of the negotiations, but only proved she wasn’t”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -pantomine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
” First as tragedy, then as farce. And when that’s exhausted, all that’s left is a third-rate village pantomime. Brexit can make fools of the cleverest people, so has a field day making fools of fools. As a general rule when you haven’t got anything to say, it’s best to say nothing. But Theresa May is now so hopelessly crushed and disorientated, she felt obliged to come to the Commons to give a statement on what hadn’t happened. She hoped this made her sound as if she was still in control of the negotiations, but only proved she wasn’t”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -pantomine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Excellent work from somebody BTL at the guardian
We had one million bags of the best Sligo rags
We had two million barrels of stones
We had three million sides of old blind horses' hides
We had four million barrels of bones
We had five million hogs, had six million dogs
Seven million barrels of porter
We had eight million bales of old nanny goats' tails
On the hold at the Irish Border....
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
The current lead story on the Graun's web front page -Theresa May faces frantic 48 hours to save Brexit plan as talks stall- says
...which is plainly wrong. A backstop is required to ensure there is no hard border in Ireland if an agreement can't be reached that goes far beyond a comprehensive free trade deal, including the kind of absence of product standard and phytosanitary checks that only comes with regulatory alignment and international oversight that in turn only comes with the single market. They're confusing 'free trade' with 'frictionless trade'. Again.A backstop is required to ensure that there is no hard border in Ireland if a comprehensive free trade deal cannot be signed before the end of 2020
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
That sort of laziness\sloppiness helped get us to the position we're in now.
Re: Monday 15th October 2018
Exactly.PorFavor wrote:That sort of laziness\sloppiness helped get us to the position we're in now.