Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Scary stuff this morning
Boris launches his leadership bid by sporting a new sensible haircut.
Esther McVey actually throws her hat in the ring
Boris launches his leadership bid by sporting a new sensible haircut.
Esther McVey actually throws her hat in the ring
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
I actually feel Amber Rudd has made her bid too, though I haven't seen that reported.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15729
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Leadsom had more chance, tbh.PaulfromYorkshire wrote: Esther McVey actually throws her hat in the ring
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Not a bad summation of where we are. And a lot of very good reasons why Cameron should never have called a referendum in the first place. With no significant changes being proposed to the EU at this time on which to base a referendum debate on (such as could have been had over Maastricht for instance) it became a proxy for other things, none of which can be satisfactorily resolved by leaving the EU. And I agree that it is only worth voting down May's deal if you are hoping to achieve Norway, remain or no deal. Those proposing a renegotiation (to achieve Canada+ or whatever) need to explain how they are going to resolve the Irish Border issue, as Boris Johnson failed to do so this morning.gilsey wrote:Latest Wren-Lewis.
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Leave voters wanted more control over events and a better life. That is what they were promised. That combination is just not possible by leaving the EU.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I actually feel Amber Rudd has made her bid too, though I haven't seen that reported.
I'm not sure. Is that a bid to curry favour with the Tory membership.....or the Labour membership?!Amber Rudd tells @RSylvesterTimes and @aliceTTimes her first call after re-entering Cabinet was to the Chancellor asking him to #endthefreeze on benefits in April. (link: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -0npkw9lgs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/a… #solveukpoverty
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15729
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Its the fabled "pitch for the centre ground" methinks.
(maybe even a recognition that insofar as such a thing exists, today's "centre" is in a different place from a decade or more ago)
(maybe even a recognition that insofar as such a thing exists, today's "centre" is in a different place from a decade or more ago)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
I think there is a group of One Nation type Tories like Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston who somehow believe they can stop being the Nasty Party.Willow904 wrote:" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I actually feel Amber Rudd has made her bid too, though I haven't seen that reported.I'm not sure. Is that a bid to curry favour with the Tory membership.....or the Labour membership?!Amber Rudd tells @RSylvesterTimes and @aliceTTimes her first call after re-entering Cabinet was to the Chancellor asking him to #endthefreeze on benefits in April. (link: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -0npkw9lgs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/a… #solveukpoverty
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
As above hitting pensioners at an increasing rate eg.they presumed that less housing support would be needed among homeowners and investigating as to why increase.Strangely enough purposeful.reductions and removals in social security and social care and increased charging has lifelong consequences.
Last edited by HindleA on Sun 09 Dec, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bo ... 6.html?amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Boris Johnson is engaged in the long con to be PM, and he’s counting on us staying in the EU"
"Boris Johnson is engaged in the long con to be PM, and he’s counting on us staying in the EU"
I'd hate to think he's slightly stupid, but smart enough to read all the clever theories on how he could become pm.The credibility of the theory I’m about to set out does rather depend on whether he’s a clever person impersonating a stupid one rather than the other way around. But let me explain...
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
They give hypocrites a bad name.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think there is a group of One Nation type Tories like Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston who somehow believe they can stop being the Nasty Party.Willow904 wrote:" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I actually feel Amber Rudd has made her bid too, though I haven't seen that reported.I'm not sure. Is that a bid to curry favour with the Tory membership.....or the Labour membership?!Amber Rudd tells @RSylvesterTimes and @aliceTTimes her first call after re-entering Cabinet was to the Chancellor asking him to #endthefreeze on benefits in April. (link: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -0npkw9lgs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/a… #solveukpoverty
At least the likes of Heseltine acted like he cared, meaning taking action such as voting/policymaking, not the other sort of acting which they're quite good at.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
In general I dislike.the hand-wringing angst it's difficult stuff when it clearly isn't and the I've been given/secured assurances stuff.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Being proud with beaming face at donating your surplus food (courtesy of tax payers)at the need you have deliberately created,that's what I say.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Desperate need to feel superior and to be seen to be flaunting it in peoples' faces,here's a tin of beans you pathetic beings.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... ced-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Also we have gotten away with low state pensions up to a point (though many fall through the gaps) because of high home ownership, council houses and some decent private and public sector pensions - none of which can be relied upon going forward if we remain on current trajectory. We are storing up some serious pensioner poverty issues for the future.HindleA wrote:As above hitting pensioners at an increasing rate eg.they presumed that less housing support would be needed among homeowners and investigating as to why increase.Strangely enough purposeful.reductions and removals in social security and social care and increased charging has lifelong consequences.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
I think it was pretty obvious that Johnson's pitch for No 10 was based on being a leave supporter in a remain scenario. It all went horribly wrong when we voted out but it's conceivable, if not especially likely, that he could have another run at it. I certainly can't fault the truth of this sentence:tinybgoat wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bo ... 6.html?amp
"Boris Johnson is engaged in the long con to be PM, and he’s counting on us staying in the EU"I'd hate to think he's slightly stupid, but smart enough to read all the clever theories on how he could become pm.The credibility of the theory I’m about to set out does rather depend on whether he’s a clever person impersonating a stupid one rather than the other way around. But let me explain...
Johnson is much better suited to making messes than he is to clearing them up.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15729
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Interesting that quite a few are women (though Guy Opperman is a male Tory MP very much in that tradition)PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think there is a group of One Nation type Tories like Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston who somehow believe they can stop being the Nasty Party.Willow904 wrote:" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I actually feel Amber Rudd has made her bid too, though I haven't seen that reported.I'm not sure. Is that a bid to curry favour with the Tory membership.....or the Labour membership?!Amber Rudd tells @RSylvesterTimes and @aliceTTimes her first call after re-entering Cabinet was to the Chancellor asking him to #endthefreeze on benefits in April. (link: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -0npkw9lgs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/a… #solveukpoverty
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11140
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
I guess that if you want to convince people that Brexiteers are really lovely, ordinary folk; then bringing a set of gallows on a march is exactly the sort of thing one does...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
[youtube]Tjp5OmoDYQM[/youtube]
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... y-13708728" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If the DUP abstained on a no confidence vote, would Labour have the numbers? And supposing they do, would Corbyn be able to command a majority? I feel the SNP have been pretty clear it would take membership of the single market to win their support. Would Labour be prepared to offer this? And what about those still holding out for a further referendum? Would they be on board? A lot of unanswered questions. And where does this leave Dominic Grieve's recently won "meaningful vote" amendment? Does that come before a confidence vote?Labour ready to seize power THIS Wednesday over Brexit declares Corbyn ally Jon Trickett
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Surely the DUP would have to vote with Labour. Unless there are Tory rebels or abstentions.Willow904 wrote:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... y-13708728
If the DUP abstained on a no confidence vote, would Labour have the numbers? And supposing they do, would Corbyn be able to command a majority? I feel the SNP have been pretty clear it would take membership of the single market to win their support. Would Labour be prepared to offer this? And what about those still holding out for a further referendum? Would they be on board? A lot of unanswered questions. And where does this leave Dominic Grieve's recently won "meaningful vote" amendment? Does that come before a confidence vote?Labour ready to seize power THIS Wednesday over Brexit declares Corbyn ally Jon Trickett
But there are plenty of signals that the DUP could vote against. I would if I were them.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
So, this happened to me on Twitter today (with other Tweets on the side).
@PaulbernalUK Three Brexiters against @CarolineLucas. Good luck Caroline!!
@PaulfrYorkshire Three politicians with entrenched positions on Brexit vs one who seeks consensus. Good luck Barry! @BarryGardiner
@PaulbernalUK It would be lovely if that were true. Lovely.
@PaulfrYorkshire But I think it is Paul. IMHO there is FAR too little talk about what the middle ground looks like.
@ShakeyStephens The middle ground is the #PeoplesVote
@PaulfrYorkshire #PeoplesVote is by design divisive. Doesn't make it wrong. But it's specifically framed to avoid consensus.
@PaulbernalUK When you’re already divided, calling it divisive is misleading at best, manipulative more likely.
@PaulbernalUK And trying to ‘unify’ people by taking only one side - the hard Brexit side - is expecting submission and enforcing subjugation.
@ShakeyStephens I'm pro we should just laugh it off. Ie remain no vote The #PeoplesVote is the middle
@PaulbernalUK It’s the only middle ground possible right now. Anyone who doesn’t think it’s middle ground clearly expects to lose it....
@PaulfrYorkshire Except AS I SAID I am an ardent Remainer - I genuinely fear Remain will lose. But more than that the division a #PeoplesVote will cause scares me witless.
@PaulbernalUK It doesn’t look as though you’re listening. We’re already hideously divided. Imagining that a second referendum will make that worse is denying reality. Why???
@ShakeyStephens Still love to know what they fear
@PaulfrYorkshire So when Leave wins again you will happily acquiesce and go along with it?
@ShakeyStephens Why would leave win again?
@PaulfrYorkshire Because folk still don't think the EU is on their side? Rightly or wrongly. #WakeUp
@PaulbernalUK And you pretend you were a remainer? *ho ho*
@PaulfrYorkshire And there I rest my case. You can't believe I voted Remain. You understand nothing at all.
@PaulbernalUK You need to drop the Brexiter language if you want to appear like a real remainer. Just a thought.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15729
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
The point is that Brexit *could* win again in another referendum, and that so many advocates of another vote aren't even willing to admit that is not a good sign.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11140
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
This is very amusing...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Indeed.AnatolyKasparov wrote:The point is that Brexit *could* win again in another referendum, and that so many advocates of another vote aren't even willing to admit that is not a good sign.
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8177
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
I know fine well brexit could win another referendum, I know brexiters and yes I have to admit they're still as stupid and racist as ever, and I say that with no qualms whatsoever.
But at least this time it would be an informed choice.
Well for those who could be arsed to inform themselves.
But at least this time it would be an informed choice.
Well for those who could be arsed to inform themselves.
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8177
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Regardless, Tuesday should be fun.
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
How is Rees-Moggs' tailoring so, so bad, when he has so much money?
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th December 2018
Meaningful vote to be pulled after all?
Jessica Elgot reporting Cabinet conference call at 11.30
Jessica Elgot reporting Cabinet conference call at 11.30