Tuesday 15th January 2019

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refitman
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Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
HindleA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... sers-voice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Austerity is denying patients and care service users a voice
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

I have decided to withdraw my amendment to the Government’s Withdrawal Agreement motion today which would have rejected both the PM’s deal and leaving with no deal.
Worth reading the whole thread

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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... unions-say" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ssed-aside" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Good-morning, everyone
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... /HCWS1249/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

I see
it sounds like either both are pensioners or neither is a pensioner
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all

An interesting viewpoint from DAG...how to pacify both sides.

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PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
German government denies report saying Merkel has offered May new assurances

The German government has denied a story in today’s Sun claiming that Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, has given Theresa May an assurance that the EU will offer the UK new assurances if May loses the vote. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Unlike the "Sun" to mis-report things.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

JUST IN: German Foreign Minister Maas says if May's Brexit deal is rejected by parliament today there could be new talks with the EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 6a86827fb1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
two minutes ago
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

citizenJA wrote:
JUST IN: German Foreign Minister Maas says if May's Brexit deal is rejected by parliament today there could be new talks with the EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 6a86827fb1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
two minutes ago

Thanks. Not the same thing as that described by the "Sun", though, I'd suggest.
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Willow904
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

citizenJA wrote:
I see
it sounds like either both are pensioners or neither is a pensioner
Previously pensioners were protected by allowing a household with a pensioner to access pension credit and pensioner housing benefit, which provide greater security and reduced conditionality than working age benefits, even if their spouse was still of working age.

This has been reversed so now the pensioner will be vulnerable to the conditionality and reduced stability and security of the working age social security system which their younger partner will be expected to engage with, especially in terms of housing and housing benefit, something I believe HindleA has previously predicted we are inevitably creeping towards under the current government.

Slipped through on the quiet, it seems.
Paul Lewis
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Quiet announcement of huge change for older couples. Now, if EITHER is over state pension age can claim pension credit. From 15 May, BOTH must be over state pension age (new claims). Long threatened, often deferred. Perhaps we’re all looking the other way? (link: http://bit.ly/2SPHfzw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) bit.ly/2SPHfzw
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
JUST IN: German Foreign Minister Maas says if May's Brexit deal is rejected by parliament today there could be new talks with the EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 6a86827fb1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
two minutes ago
Thanks. Not the same thing as that described by the "Sun", though, I'd suggest.
I didn't think they were the same
I should've waited a bit before posting it
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Ditto. I didn't think that you'd think that I thought that you thought that they were the same!
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Anybody else getting site gremlins this morning?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anybody else getting site gremlins this morning?
No. It would be infuriating and frustrating for that to happen on today of all days. But there's still time . . .
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Voting against May's withdrawal agreement isn't bringing on a 'no-deal Brexit'.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anybody else getting site gremlins this morning?
I don't think so
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Linux operating system here is consistently twitchy
OS problems may not be what you're referring to
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Willow904
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

citizenJA wrote:Voting against May's withdrawal agreement isn't bringing on a 'no-deal Brexit'.
No, but voting it through would guarantee no deal Brexit wouldn't happen, whilst voting against it leaves the possibility open.
I'm sympathetic both to opposition MPs who feel the risks of rejecting a WA are too high to chance it and also those who can't bring themselves to vote in support of May's government. Neither choice is an easy or straightforward one imo.
Remember, of the 100 or so Tory MPs likely to rebel against their government many are doing so because they want a harder Brexit than the WA provides and they will get what they want if Parliament is unable to form a majority for any other option, something it is still unclear whether it is able to do.

I just hope the Labour leadership have talked enough across party lines to establish which route forward has the most potential for a positive outcome.
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Willow904
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anybody else getting site gremlins this morning?
No, but I did last week, first time in ages.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

May apparently saying that no matter how bad tonight's defeat might be, she will push on with her deal as it is "the only option".

A classic case of just asserting something not making it true......
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

"where there is security may there be insecurity"
The non comparable comparative fairness reduction process continues.
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

Targeted is correct,but not in a good way.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:May apparently saying that no matter how bad tonight's defeat might be, she will push on with her deal as it is "the only option".

A classic case of just asserting something not making it true......
It's not an indication of strength, her talking like that. Someone with influence with her ought to let her know.
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

I can't listen to Geoffrey Cox. Too irritating.
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Al Shabaab terrorism attack in Nairobi, Kenya (Sky TV news).
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

As mentioned on Twitter, today is the 100th anniversary of Rosa Luxemburg's murder. With the collusion of the SPD, to their eternal shame.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Beth Rigby (Sky TV news) is saying that Theresa May's Plan B is (yes, you've guessed it) Plan A.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

I'd rather have the coalition of chaos option, please
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Ken Clarke is voting for May's agreement? Is that accurate?
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

I find that ominous
HindleA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/m ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Brexit Quiz.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ing-brexit

Got 13/15, questions 7 and 10 got me.
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Brexit Quiz.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ing-brexit

Got 13/15, questions 7 and 10 got me.
I got the Mel Stride one wrong.
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Willow904
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

citizenJA wrote:Ken Clarke is voting for May's agreement? Is that accurate?
Yes, I remember him saying he would vote for it a while ago. The agreement with the backstop pushes us towards a closer relationship with the EU than May was originally trying to achieve, so this may have persuaded him to backing it.
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gilsey
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by gilsey »

Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Voting against May's withdrawal agreement isn't bringing on a 'no-deal Brexit'.
No, but voting it through would guarantee no deal Brexit wouldn't happen.
It guarantees it won’t happen on 29/3, surely that’s all. Another cliff edge 31 Dec 2020, and then perhaps another in 2022.
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Ken Clarke is voting for May's agreement? Is that accurate?
Yes, I remember him saying he would vote for it a while ago. The agreement with the backstop pushes us towards a closer relationship with the EU than May was originally trying to achieve, so this may have persuaded him to backing it.
Clarke speaks his mind, but has never been much of a rebel I'd say.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Brexit Quiz.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ing-brexit

Got 13/15, questions 7 and 10 got me.
I got 10/15
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Unimpressed by Jeremy Corbyn's contribution.
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Willow904
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Voting against May's withdrawal agreement isn't bringing on a 'no-deal Brexit'.
No, but voting it through would guarantee no deal Brexit wouldn't happen.
It guarantees it won’t happen on 29/3, surely that’s all. Another cliff edge 31 Dec 2020, and then perhaps another in 2022.
Except if we hit the Dec 2020 deadline without a finalised future deal, that's when the backstop kicks in, keeping us in the Customs Union. Or at least that's my understanding. Isn't that what the hard Brexiters don't like? That the WA locks us into some kind of customs agreement as a bare minimum, because they know the EU won't accept a hard border in Ireland and they and the DUP won't accept a major border in the Irish Sea and in reality there is no technological solution to get around this. So the only pure "no deal" moment is the upcoming one in March, because that backstop will be legally binding and can only be superseded by something both we and the EU agree on.
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PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Ayes: 202

Noes: 432
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

PorFavor wrote:Unimpressed by Jeremy Corbyn's contribution.
Looks like this didn't matter overmuch, at the end of the day.

Brutal result.
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Willow904
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

May very calm in response.

There is perhaps some relief for her in turning the impossible conundrum over to Parliament. She's just a passenger now, like the rest of us.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

I like Tusk's idea a lot
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

[youtube]bcd3kN656zg[/youtube]


Edited to add -

Words by T May?
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Frank Field, Kate Hoey and John Mann voted for.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by citizenJA »

May has completely ignored every remain voter in her speech
again
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Tuesday 15th January 2019

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Just returned from a school meeting and I seemed to have missed something important...
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