Wednesday 11th September 2019

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refitman
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Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
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refitman
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by refitman »

Slow hand clap for Watson.
PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Breaking news (Sky): Scottish Court in Edinburgh rules that the prorogation of Parliament is unlawful.
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adam
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by adam »

PorFavor wrote:Breaking news (Sky): Scottish Court in Edinburgh rules that the prorogation of Parliament is unlawful.
Just imagine if something came along that drove Watson off the front page....
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by PorFavor »

adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Breaking news (Sky): Scottish Court in Edinburgh rules that the prorogation of Parliament is unlawful.
Just imagine if something came along that drove Watson off the front page....
Speaking of front pages, Nigel Farage has bought the "Express" for the day.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by PorFavor »

The cast list is a bit sparse this morning.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... g-patients" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

refitman wrote:Slow hand clap for Watson.
There. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Another. Referendum. Without. An. Election. First.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:The cast list is a bit sparse this morning.
stage fright
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Good afternoon, everyone.
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Willow904
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by Willow904 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
refitman wrote:Slow hand clap for Watson.
There. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Another. Referendum. Without. An. Election. First.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?
I know. His whole stance is so much gibberish. The only way we can have a referendum before a GE is if the government decides to pursue that option, which isn't likely to happen, but even if it did isn't it already Labour policy to support one so how does that put Watson at odds with the leadership?

And although there is some merit to the idea of resolving Brexit separately, outside a GE campaign, we've had nearly a year to do that since May secured her WA and it's clear the current parliament is not capable of doing that.

Personally I have no idea if a GE will make things better. Quite possibly not. But given the impasse and Johnson's lack of a majority, the only correct and democratic way forward is for the PM to ask for an extension in order to hold a GE and hopefully the opposition will stay united in their plan to try to make that happen.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I mean even the new LibDem line of "Revoke A50" not only makes more sense, but is less unrealistic.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
refitman wrote:Slow hand clap for Watson.
There. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Another. Referendum. Without. An. Election. First.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?
Anything related to Watson obscurely reminds me of what I've observed in our local Labour party branch. While sharing Labour party membership, community, sisterhood/brotherhood and in the end, love in common, some don't share much else but their overriding conviction another at the table is a bonehead. Not all of us are going to like one another. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. That's totally fine. Keep all the Jaffa cakes; give me the flapjacks. Okay, fine. I won't eat a thing just loudly slurp my coffee and scowl.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
refitman wrote:Slow hand clap for Watson.
There. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Another. Referendum. Without. An. Election. First.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?
I know. His whole stance is so much gibberish. The only way we can have a referendum before a GE is if the government decides to pursue that option, which isn't likely to happen, but even if it did isn't it already Labour policy to support one so how does that put Watson at odds with the leadership?

And although there is some merit to the idea of resolving Brexit separately, outside a GE campaign, we've had nearly a year to do that since May secured her WA and it's clear the current parliament is not capable of doing that.

Personally I have no idea if a GE will make things better. Quite possibly not. But given the impasse and Johnson's lack of a majority, the only correct and democratic way forward is for the PM to ask for an extension in order to hold a GE and hopefully the opposition will stay united in their plan to try to make that happen.
Yes, agreed. Hopefully, someone will explain this again to Watson. Maybe he just wanted some attention. I'm not condescending, I've just sat around tables with a lot of different people at different times discovering people are fundamentally the same, sometimes irrational and fractious, other times capable of being perfectly reasonable and helpful.

Only the baked goods vary.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I mean even the new LibDem line of "Revoke A50" not only makes more sense, but is less unrealistic.
cJA stands abruptly, chair knocked over by the force of the move, points a finger at AK and ominously utters: "Now. Let's don't get ugly."
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Of course I know I've neither the spontaneous, eccentric wit of HindleA or the flamboyant genius of Sky.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

I'll look at the news now.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

The Inner House of the Court of Session has ruled that the Prime Minister’s advice to HM the Queen that the United Kingdom Parliament should be prorogued from a day between 9 and 12 September until 14 October was unlawful because it had the purpose of stymying Parliament.

All three First Division judges have decided that the PM’s advice to the HM the Queen is justiciable, that it was motivated by the improper purpose of stymying Parliament and that it, and what has followed from it, is unlawful.

Joanna Cherry QC MP and others for Judicial Review

http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/1/0/Home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Isn't there something in Article 50 obliging governments leaving the EU doing so in compliance with constitutional norms?
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

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citizenJA wrote:
The Inner House of the Court of Session has ruled that the Prime Minister’s advice to HM the Queen that the United Kingdom Parliament should be prorogued from a day between 9 and 12 September until 14 October was unlawful because it had the purpose of stymying Parliament.

All three First Division judges have decided that the PM’s advice to the HM the Queen is justiciable, that it was motivated by the improper purpose of stymying Parliament and that it, and what has followed from it, is unlawful.

Joanna Cherry QC MP and others for Judicial Review

http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/1/0/Home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Isn't there something in Article 50 obliging governments leaving the EU doing so in compliance with constitutional norms?
Yes, but I think it's aimed more at the proper holding of a referendum etc prior to triggering article 50. I'm not sure it would cover the nitty gritty of parliamentary democracy throughout the article 50 period. Parliament did vote to trigger article 50 and crashing out with no deal was a foreseeable risk when they did so. I think we're going to have to sort this one our ourselves!
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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adam
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by adam »

Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
The Inner House of the Court of Session has ruled that the Prime Minister’s advice to HM the Queen that the United Kingdom Parliament should be prorogued from a day between 9 and 12 September until 14 October was unlawful because it had the purpose of stymying Parliament.

All three First Division judges have decided that the PM’s advice to the HM the Queen is justiciable, that it was motivated by the improper purpose of stymying Parliament and that it, and what has followed from it, is unlawful.

Joanna Cherry QC MP and others for Judicial Review

http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/1/0/Home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Isn't there something in Article 50 obliging governments leaving the EU doing so in compliance with constitutional norms?
Yes, but I think it's aimed more at the proper holding of a referendum etc prior to triggering article 50. I'm not sure it would cover the nitty gritty of parliamentary democracy throughout the article 50 period. Parliament did vote to trigger article 50 and crashing out with no deal was a foreseeable risk when they did so. I think we're going to have to sort this one our ourselves!
Isn't it more just that there's something in the EU's Acquis that member countries always act within constitutional norms? (Edited to add - so what are they going to do if we don't? Throw us out?)
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adam
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by adam »

We need now to reach across party loyalties and demographic differences to explain face to face: what we’re living through is not normal, nor accidental. It’s a fabricated chaos. And the road back to normality lies through getting Johnson out of Downing Street.
Paul Mason in the Guardian - Chaos is being normalised. It is all part of Boris Johnson’s pernicious plan
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Isn't there something in Article 50 obliging governments leaving the EU doing so in compliance with constitutional norms?
Yes, but I think it's aimed more at the proper holding of a referendum etc prior to triggering article 50. I'm not sure it would cover the nitty gritty of parliamentary democracy throughout the article 50 period. Parliament did vote to trigger article 50 and crashing out with no deal was a foreseeable risk when they did so. I think we're going to have to sort this one our ourselves!
Isn't it more just that there's something in the EU's Acquis that member countries always act within constitutional norms? (Edited to add - so what are they going to do if we don't? Throw us out?)
Well, they haven't thrown Hungary out yet :?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

The EU (I'm using this term describing official representative(s) acting on behalf of the 28 member states) may decide given the unprecedented and unlawful actions of what remains of the UK's Tory government requires them doing nothing causing more harm.

It could be the UK remains in the EU until that time UK government, after contemplative isolation upstairs in their room, may then come downstairs and make responsible decisions on behalf of millions of UK-EU citizens.

edited attempting correction of my grammar
Last edited by citizenJA on Wed 11 Sep, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Throwing out countries isn't something the EU wants at all.
I'm well aware the EU isn't perfect but the group of nations collectively knows the meaning of some of what's written on the back of my Labour Party membership card.
"...y the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone...".
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

citizenJA joined flythenest 11 September 2014
Happy 5th anniversary, citizenJA!
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Someone wake up Constance, please.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by PorFavor »

citizenJA wrote:Someone wake up Constance, please.
I think she's in semi-hibernation. It's a bit parky here.

Edited - what's going on with my brain?
Last edited by PorFavor on Wed 11 Sep, 2019 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

She's the best stylist I've ever had dress my hair. I can't do a thing with it.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

The sun is shining nicely and I've got errands to do. I'll look a fright without her help.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by HindleA »

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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Tories now saying there will be no pact/deal with Farage and his "party".

Whilst they say lots of things that they contradict later, I wonder if something like private polling has helped cause this stance?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote::-
:lol:
yep, that was me
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

(cJA edit)
I don't typically like Mason's work but this piece is persuasive and sound.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by Willow904 »

citizenJA wrote:
(cJA edit)
I don't typically like Mason's work but this piece is persuasive and sound.

Seems to be a bit lacking on foolproof tactics to foil Johnson's pernicious plan, though. Chaos s a lot easier to achieve than order.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
(cJA edit)
I don't typically like Mason's work but this piece is persuasive and sound.
Seems to be a bit lacking on foolproof tactics to foil Johnson's pernicious plan, though. Chaos s a lot easier to achieve than order.
"...[G]et down to a pub this Friday night, in a place you know there’s going to be support for Johnson, and calmly argue the toss."
Granted, this strategy isn't without potential drawbacks. What I came away with is to look beyond the confected chaos. Don't rise to the bait. Don't panic. Stay together.
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Re: Wednesday 11th September 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA
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