Thursday 23rd January 2020
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Thursday 23rd January 2020
Morning all.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... um-survive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Genuinely interested as to thoughts if they helped,hindered the chances of Labour being in government,or indeed made no difference.
Genuinely interested as to thoughts if they helped,hindered the chances of Labour being in government,or indeed made no difference.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Does fervency,especially pinned to one person aid in the persuasion stakes or rather make less likely?
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Good morfternoon.
The NHS is safe in the hands of this genius.He says there have been 571 cases, and 17 reported fatalities.
Most cases of this new virus have been non-fatal, he says. But some cases have been fatal. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Good morning, everyone.
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Quite long but very good - from Ian Dunt in politics.co.uk
Brexit 2020: Everything you need to know about Boris Johnson's trade deal nightmare
Brexit 2020: Everything you need to know about Boris Johnson's trade deal nightmare
Cool, so everything's sorted right? Brexit is getting done, everything's going back to normal and I never have to talk about trade again.
Oh yeah, no sorry. That's all a lie. We are about to enter the most perilous system-level recalibration of an advanced economy in trading history
I still believe in a town called Hope
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15736
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Is the (blatantly clickbaity) article title an inverse of the QTWTAIN?HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... um-survive
Genuinely interested as to thoughts if they helped,hindered the chances of Labour being in government,or indeed made no difference.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
This bit leaped out:HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... um-survive
Genuinely interested as to thoughts if they helped,hindered the chances of Labour being in government,or indeed made no difference.
Like the Labour Party has? More parallel echoing rather than integrated involvement? I'm not sure I see the point. Rather than duplicating Labour in a watered down, shadow party, perhaps it would be better just to participate in the actual Labour Party itself?“But the National Coordinating Group isn’t working. There needs to be a place members can come together and plan at a variety of levels. New regional structures perhaps.”
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Well, despite the risk of getting slapped around the head from the house prefect ( not you HindleA ) - I'll respond..HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... um-survive
Genuinely interested as to thoughts if they helped,hindered the chances of Labour being in government,or indeed made no difference.
I think hindered. If only that their enthusiasm may have given a false picture of how popular the leader and policies would be with the wider voting public.
And - this is only through discussions with friends and relatives of all ages. In my circle, the enthusiasm was not shared. I'd hoped I was in a minority - and though, for the first time in 32 years of voting - the pen nearly didn't touch the voting slip. I did vote - but that word again, no enthusiasm.
Over to you Prefect
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15736
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
You could say the same in an ideal world about other factional groups like Progress and Labour First, of course.
However, in the one we inhabit no major political party is not going to have various sub-groups (Tories and LibDems certainly do also)
However, in the one we inhabit no major political party is not going to have various sub-groups (Tories and LibDems certainly do also)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Less.HindleA wrote:Does fervency,especially pinned to one person aid in the persuasion stakes or rather make less likely?
I'm sure I'm unique - but I cringed more and more each time I heard the 'Oh, Jere...'
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
No. You're not unique.Lost Soul wrote:Less.HindleA wrote:Does fervency,especially pinned to one person aid in the persuasion stakes or rather make less likely?
I'm sure I'm unique - but I cringed more and more each time I heard the 'Oh, Jere...'
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Is Momentum a sub-group, though? It feels more like a shadow party, piggy-backing on the original. I'm just not sure what the point is, really. It feels like a lot of duplicated time and effort that could be more productive put directly into the Labour Party itself.AnatolyKasparov wrote:You could say the same in an ideal world about other factional groups like Progress and Labour First, of course.
However, in the one we inhabit no major political party is not going to have various sub-groups (Tories and LibDems certainly do also)
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Glad I'm not unique either ! Severe cringing here too.PorFavor wrote:No. You're not unique.Lost Soul wrote:Less.HindleA wrote:Does fervency,especially pinned to one person aid in the persuasion stakes or rather make less likely?
I'm sure I'm unique - but I cringed more and more each time I heard the 'Oh, Jere...'
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
I don't like lionising any political leader, never have done. I've always said Labour is more than one leader.
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Tory voter I know grew up after WW2, had the NHS, high-quality council housing, steady employment with good workplace conditions and made money in real estate due to house price inflation. It's impossible blaming ordinary individuals for the deregulated economic system allowing risky financial products and asset bubble creation however, no work of his created most the current value of those properties. He dislikes Cameron for his part in the 2016 EU referendum, doesn't like Brexit but he trusts Tories more than Labour. I don't think he understands the unsustainable trajectory of our economic and social systems. He's a nice person believing everyone can have the financial and social security he's had all his life.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Of course the counter is that it wasn't/isn't about one leader but what they supposedly represent.I say supposedly because of course I would argue it is both highly contestable before you get to the mythical reconstruction of the past and the "irony/?" of the its not about the personalitiesists obsession with personalities in cartoon like terms.Again as Nandy alluded to even this mythical past is not always what some of us would actually view as in any way particularly progressive
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
I was never a prefect,largely because few people knew who I was.Though I was" put in charge" whilst being escorted by bus in Cyprus from home to school of a guy who had the habit of turning his eyelids inside out and generally causing ,shall we say unease with certain other habits.Beyond teaching him how to fart at random as one alternative I didn't really have any other effect.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Would genuinely like to hear the counter argument beyond possibly increasing numbers at a rally etc re momentum
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Participation/engagement to what end?
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15736
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Persuading people?
The point is that the right have the mass media basically on their side, and the left needs *something* to counter that.
If not an energised activist base on the ground, then what??
The point is that the right have the mass media basically on their side, and the left needs *something* to counter that.
If not an energised activist base on the ground, then what??
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
But with the already mentioned queasiness among Labour members in the utilisation of this energy exactly how is that very persuasive and who are they trying to persuade beyond themselves?
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
I don't know about Momentum. I'm not really sure what it does or how I would be in it.
On the Oh Jeremy Corbyn thing, my teenage son would chuckle at us and tell us it was quite evidently ironic.
It's worth remembering that among the under forties Labour are believed to have smashed the Tories.
We should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater....
On the Oh Jeremy Corbyn thing, my teenage son would chuckle at us and tell us it was quite evidently ironic.
It's worth remembering that among the under forties Labour are believed to have smashed the Tories.
We should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater....
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Fair enough-
"Oh Norris………
"Oh Norris………
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8331
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
In the area where I live there is no sign of that energised activist base on the ground. If anything, Corbyn's leadership has seen a decline in active members.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Persuading people?
The point is that the right have the mass media basically on their side, and the left needs *something* to counter that.
If not an energised activist base on the ground, then what??
Perhaps the "Momentum effect" is patchy, rather than a national phenomenon?
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Civic lessonsHindleA wrote:Participation/engagement to what end?
I think it'd be good having daily explainers
A couple examples
Labour party Members of Parliament (MPs) representing constituencies in the House doesn't necessarily mean Labour are government; usually the party with a majority or the greatest number of MPs (current total number of MPs is 650) forms government.
The last ten years have been Tory-led governments.
Local councils are funded by Westminster, not by elected Councillors.
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
One of the last things I wanted to do was go out on a cold weekday evening but I'm glad I did. Local Labour party members organised a book discussion and signing about the dangers of financialisation. I'm glad I went. I guess there were about forty or so people there. The companionship of others was wonderful. I haven't read the book. I liked the company of other Labour party members. We're all different. We share Labour in common.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Persuading people?
The point is that the right have the mass media basically on their side, and the left needs *something* to counter that.
If not an energised activist base on the ground, then what??
I'm concerned though. What brings us in contact with one another in a place where it's appropriate discussing politics? People have to work earning wages, raising children, cleaning house, caring for health... . The atomisation of communities is a real problem, I think.
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Interesting social events with a political focus but not necessarily contentious; something everyone can participate in. Bring baked goods and beverages.HindleA wrote:But with the already mentioned queasiness among Labour members in the utilisation of this energy exactly how is that very persuasive and who are they trying to persuade beyond themselves?
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Good evening
Please permit me to intervene in some of these discussions discarding Momentum. I was a Labour member when Blair took power in the party in Scotland and those heady days before the realisation of what 'Blairism' was became more apparent over the years.
The atmosphere started well but go more and more toxic as the constituency parties and members were treated like dirt and we left in droves. Nothing was permitted without top down control. You can see the affect it had on the membership of the party
Now though we have again a pretty vibrant membership and the numbers are holding up despite the abuse thrown at the members from the media and certain members of the PLP.
Of course it is not perfect but this appalling abuse we have seen thrown at Corbyn and the leadership that took us from 2015 and have actually increased the share of the vote despite the barrage of lies and misinformation is depressing to see.
I am actually relatively positive about the three candidates for leader left in - all have good points and bad points but seem ready to take the party forward. I just hope Starmer is his own man and is not going to fall into the trap of moving in the direction of Labour First and Progress - a longer existing and much more toxic influence on Labour than Momentum. Anything that has the appalling Luke Akehurst and his acolytes influencing things is bad news for me.
The media though has decided Long-Bailey is not acceptable and she has suffered some terrible abuse already, but of course this is allowed as she is a left winger. As we have seen with Meghan and Harry anyone rocking the boat is fair game. At least Jess Phillips is no longer in the reckoning although she seems to be marked for high office based on nothing more than she is anti-Corbyn, has an unconvincingly broad Brummie accent and is a good example of Dunning-Kruger (contrast the adulation she receives compared to the abuse of a high-achiever -yes I do mean that-like Diane Abbott)
I am happy to accept any of the 3 candidates as long as the principles behind 2017 and 2019 are maintained, and none have said that they are ready to jettison them. It will. I think, be Starmer vs Long-Bailey in the final reckoning and both of them would do me but she would be piled on by the media and certain parts of the PLP - and that behaviour would be accepted by all.
Please permit me to intervene in some of these discussions discarding Momentum. I was a Labour member when Blair took power in the party in Scotland and those heady days before the realisation of what 'Blairism' was became more apparent over the years.
The atmosphere started well but go more and more toxic as the constituency parties and members were treated like dirt and we left in droves. Nothing was permitted without top down control. You can see the affect it had on the membership of the party
Now though we have again a pretty vibrant membership and the numbers are holding up despite the abuse thrown at the members from the media and certain members of the PLP.
Of course it is not perfect but this appalling abuse we have seen thrown at Corbyn and the leadership that took us from 2015 and have actually increased the share of the vote despite the barrage of lies and misinformation is depressing to see.
I am actually relatively positive about the three candidates for leader left in - all have good points and bad points but seem ready to take the party forward. I just hope Starmer is his own man and is not going to fall into the trap of moving in the direction of Labour First and Progress - a longer existing and much more toxic influence on Labour than Momentum. Anything that has the appalling Luke Akehurst and his acolytes influencing things is bad news for me.
The media though has decided Long-Bailey is not acceptable and she has suffered some terrible abuse already, but of course this is allowed as she is a left winger. As we have seen with Meghan and Harry anyone rocking the boat is fair game. At least Jess Phillips is no longer in the reckoning although she seems to be marked for high office based on nothing more than she is anti-Corbyn, has an unconvincingly broad Brummie accent and is a good example of Dunning-Kruger (contrast the adulation she receives compared to the abuse of a high-achiever -yes I do mean that-like Diane Abbott)
I am happy to accept any of the 3 candidates as long as the principles behind 2017 and 2019 are maintained, and none have said that they are ready to jettison them. It will. I think, be Starmer vs Long-Bailey in the final reckoning and both of them would do me but she would be piled on by the media and certain parts of the PLP - and that behaviour would be accepted by all.
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
And yet Labour remain (‘scuse the ‘pun’) out of power.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Paul. I don't know much about Momentum. I suspected the chanting was ironic. I didn't know, I don't particular care. If they're not hurting anyone, I don't care. I'm a Labour party member. If Labour had an affiliated group with specific interests I'm also interested in, I might join it. However, I agree with the points made in Willow's posts. I don't like factions.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I don't know about Momentum. I'm not really sure what it does or how I would be in it.
On the Oh Jeremy Corbyn thing, my teenage son would chuckle at us and tell us it was quite evidently ironic.
It's worth remembering that among the under forties Labour are believed to have smashed the Tories.
We should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater....
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
I know. It's in my civics lesson plans.tinyclanger2 wrote:And yet Labour remain (‘scuse the ‘pun’) out of power.
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Absolutely messed up UK media. Vile. Tories get away with all manner of outlandishness then blame Labour when it's Tory government crashing nation and people.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15736
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Yes, that is certainly the case.Willow904 wrote:In the area where I live there is no sign of that energised activist base on the ground. If anything, Corbyn's leadership has seen a decline in active members.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Persuading people?
The point is that the right have the mass media basically on their side, and the left needs *something* to counter that.
If not an energised activist base on the ground, then what??
Perhaps the "Momentum effect" is patchy, rather than a national phenomenon?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
as they were after 2010 and 2015 as well......and with poor membership numbers and moraletinyclanger2 wrote:And yet Labour remain (‘scuse the ‘pun’) out of power.
Looking at 2019 election with Brexit unresolved, it was unwindable whatever Labour did I think. It was what they really always wanted to avoid - a Brexit election.
I am not like many on the left who blame Starmer and McDonnell for tacking towards Remain - with hindsight it probably did more damage than good (in terms of results) but morally it was probably the right thing to do at that point.
Starmer as a leader is not a disaster at all, although he is not perfect either. If you actually listen to Long-Bailey rather than read it through the prism of the press she has some impressive qualities too and that (with Rayner) gives me hope. Nandy seems a little too immature but she takes the fight to the press
How would Labour have returned to power if Corbyn had not been elected leader in 2015 - which one of Burnham (soft Brexit supporter), Cooper (her of WPA and hardline immigration, also soft Brexit), Kendall (neoliberal) would have taken us further forward and given us a policy platform that may well turn out to be the right one to go for in the medium term - Climate Change and other big disruptors are coming.
For example, the broadband idea was bold and right - perhaps part of a too ambitious and unfocused communication strategy (trying to take eyes off Brexit I would guess) but still the right one - has the benefit of inner-city MP Phillips being against it, always a good indicator it was a good idea
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
and not at all surprising either - what is the point being made here? I can also tell you that in the part of Scotland I lived there is no real Labour presence thanks to Murphy. Labour has never had a presence throughout the countryAnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, that is certainly the case.Willow904 wrote:In the area where I live there is no sign of that energised activist base on the ground. If anything, Corbyn's leadership has seen a decline in active members.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Persuading people?
The point is that the right have the mass media basically on their side, and the left needs *something* to counter that.
If not an energised activist base on the ground, then what??
Perhaps the "Momentum effect" is patchy, rather than a national phenomenon?
The election was about age and demographics. Labour killed the young vote much more strongly than even Blair did - it is those who seem to have no stake in the future that are keeping the Tories in power. Not sure what we can do about them until something falls off a cliff and even then they are happy to follow the misdirection of the press as they can pretend it isn't down to them voting Tory
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
@how silly,thank you for your input.
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
thank you for saying so - not trying to cause disharmony just putting forward a (slightly) different point of viewHindleA wrote:@how silly,thank you for your input.
The Corbyn era is being comprehensively traduced by the press and certain people on the right of the party and I find it as appalling as it was when it happened to Kinnock, Brown and Miliband.
Fortunately, the 3 candidates have avoided this in the main (not completely but I suppose that is only to be expected in an election).
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
My point is that while the impact of Momentum has been significant in some places it's been pretty irrelevant in others. Labour needs to be relevant everywhere and so I'm doubtful about the usefulness of a shadow party within a party which has even less reach than the Labour Party proper, especially if the effort and enthusiasm put into Momentum is actually diverting energy and resources from other parts of the party, a doubling up effect that strikes me as somewhat inefficient. It may seem strange to view the existence of Momentum in logistical rather than ideological terms, but I can't help but see it that way and can't help but wonder if it could become more of a drain on resources and energy than a contributor if it continues to grow in the way proposed in the above quote.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Labour should be looking for a win-win - have broader appeal. People are afraid and fear doesn’t help vis a vis being rational.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3374
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
it cannot be 'relevant' everywhere - that makes no sense. In fact it has lost relevance in places like Scotland under Miliband (and started much earlier). It has lost seats in the Northern Brexit areas because it moved towards Remain - which was supposed to have put us 20 points ahead in the polls. It has never been that strong in SW and other places.Willow904 wrote:My point is that while the impact of Momentum has been significant in some places it's been pretty irrelevant in others. Labour needs to be relevant everywhere and so I'm doubtful about the usefulness of a shadow party within a party which has even less reach than the Labour Party proper, especially if the effort and enthusiasm put into Momentum is actually diverting energy and resources from other parts of the party, a doubling up effect that strikes me as somewhat inefficient. It may seem strange to view the existence of Momentum in logistical rather than ideological terms, but I can't help but see it that way and can't help but wonder if it could become more of a drain on resources and energy than a contributor if it continues to grow in the way proposed in the above quote.
You think the Tories are that concerned that they have no, or limited, representation amongst the more educated, younger and urban populations? They have a clear focus on their key voters and just ignore the rest. In 2019 the media helped them massively to cement this with lies and smears on a scale not seen in my lifetime. Johnson had one policy, just one! And he lied about that on an almost unbelievable scale with no challenge from the media
I do know what has sapped the energy out of the party has been the continuing undermining of the party by continuous accusation of anti-Semitism, the war on the left by the NEC under McNicol and things such as the Panorama documentary under the auspices of the JLM. That is what has drawn energy away.
Momentum have been key in the energisation of the youth vote and the base, including the 4 fold increase in membership. Where it hasn't reached is the older demographic of voters who have consistently moved to the right over the last 10 years - culminating in Brexit. I am interested to know how we are supposed to appeal to the young generation who have climate crisis, poverty, lack of housing, lack of opportunities on their mind whilst also pandering to the xenophobic, property owning generation who also voted for Brexit?
Labour has the policy framework that is actually honest about the priorities going forward - the Tories aren't.
As TC2 says people are scared and worried but each demographic is scared about different things. The older generation are scared about losing what they have and feel they are entitled too whilst the young are scared about whether they have a future.
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA
love,
cJA
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8190
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
No Question Time reviews for a while I'm afraid, maybe next month. I simply can't face sitting through that shit and trying to make it funny at the moment, I'd just end up getting angry and depressed. Once my urge to take the piss out of politics and laugh at it returns I'll start again but right now I'd much rather avoid it all as best I can and go for long walks, play computer games, read bad sci-fi novels and stick my head in the sand as far as it will go.
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8190
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Yes, well at least some of them, I heard one Tory activist on the radio saying if he could see through the window that someone had a bookshelf with actual books on it he knew he was in for a hard time. For the Conservatives to have become a populist party whose main appeal is to people of low educational attainment and pensioners is disturbing to many of them. This is a party which has, as they see it, spent more than a century championing the elite, the idea of a meritocracy, while keeping a steady hand on the economic tiller. Now they're about to take chunks out of the economy and are endorsed by Britain First and Tommy Robinson. If you don't think this grotesque metamorphosis is causing concern amongst traditional Tories then you're not paying attention. Yes their scorched earth, win at all costs campaign may have won them the election, but will the cost of that ultimately be worth it?howsillyofme1 wrote:You think the Tories are that concerned that they have no, or limited, representation amongst the more educated, younger and urban populations?
I guess we'll see next time when 'get Brexit done' isn't a catchphrase tickling the fancy of morons.
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8190
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
Ok look, I don't want to be coming across as a confrontational dick but this is just nonsense. I've been a critic of Rebecca Long-Bailey not because of her political views (many of which I share) but because she's fucking hopeless. As an observer of politics from outside the Labour Party she is by a country mile the least able candidate in the leadership election. Every single appearance on TV, whether it be Newsnight or Question Time or just the bog standard news she is awful. Not a single thought of her own, just pre-prepared responses and ideological utterances, like someone cloned Corbyn's brain and installed it in a less appealing robot. All that would be needed to defeat her would be the Tories employing a young William Shatner to confuse her about love.howsillyofme1 wrote:The media though has decided Long-Bailey is not acceptable and she has suffered some terrible abuse already, but of course this is allowed as she is a left winger.
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8190
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
It's a fucking shitty time isn't it Tiny?tinyclanger2 wrote:I know what you mean.
And in such times is it wise to kick against the pricks as it were or go off and do what you can in your own life?
I'm sure there's some poem that makes a similar point.
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8190
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
I actually managed to wee myself last Sunday, woke up on the couch wondering what I was doing there then noticed a certain dampness of pants and the immediate surrounding area.
First time that's ever happened, I was horrified.
I tried spraying the couch with Tesco brand fabric freshener but it seemed to make everything feel damp and greasy so I took the covers off the cushions and washed them by hand while drying the cushions with a hot water bottle.
And now after much sniffing I'm typing from a dry couch that doesn't seem to smell of piss.
I know plenty of other people are incontinent but I've got no excuse.
First time that's ever happened, I was horrified.
I tried spraying the couch with Tesco brand fabric freshener but it seemed to make everything feel damp and greasy so I took the covers off the cushions and washed them by hand while drying the cushions with a hot water bottle.
And now after much sniffing I'm typing from a dry couch that doesn't seem to smell of piss.
I know plenty of other people are incontinent but I've got no excuse.
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8190
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Thursday 23rd January 2020
I wore those goth skinny jeans for so long despite the warnings they'd mess up my bladder.