Friday 20th March 2020

Post by **refitman** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:38 am

Morning all.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:56 am

More encouraging ....

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ne-science

This looks good, easterly winds for a week, cold and dry !

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:22 am

”My 24-yr-old has been paying National Insurance for two years. After losing job due to corona, inquired about Jobseekers’ Allowance. But can’t claim because needs to have been paying NI longer.
What happens to kids without homes & supportive parents?”

Allison Pearson

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 9:16 am

Morning all.

David Allen Green
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@davidallengreen
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All those empty shelves in supermarkets are where the stiff upper lips were supposed to be

So much for national self-mythology

8:23 AM - 20 Mar 2020

And apparently this morning two men stole or school milk...

Too many decades of "look after yourself and sod everyone else" coming back to bite...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 10:10 am

The black market is booming already. All the nationalist crap about a united nation pulling together during the war conveniently skims over the spivs and racketeers that thrived under the surface.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 10:38 am

BBC News had a feature on GP surgeries this morning and followed a case of a woman with asthma with a cough and shortness of breath. She was sent to hospital and had a chest x-ray but apparently wasn't tested for coronavirus. Was just sent home to self-isolate. So much for testing in hospitals. Testing staff is a no brainer too yet that's not happening either. The only explanation is that we completely failed to order enough tests, protective equipment or any new ventilators when we saw this coming when it started spreading in Italy. Why is Boris Johnson still in post? This level of incompetence shouldn't be tolerated.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 10:46 am

Willow904 wrote:BBC News had a feature on GP surgeries this morning and followed a case of a woman with asthma with a cough and shortness of breath. She was sent to hospital and had a chest x-ray but apparently wasn't tested for coronavirus. Was just sent home to self-isolate. So much for testing in hospitals. Testing staff is a no brainer too yet that's not happening either. The only explanation is that we completely failed to order enough tests, protective equipment or any new ventilators when we saw this coming when it started spreading in Italy. Why is Boris Johnson still in post? This level of incompetence shouldn't be tolerated.

I know I'm repeating what I more or less said yesterday, but: "Distribution problem with the ample stocks (or words to that effect)" bollocks. And even if it were true, it's government incompetence at a very basic level.

Edited - typos

And again - my comment relates to protective equipment for NHS staff. So, a bit off-beam, really.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 10:57 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:”My 24-yr-old has been paying National Insurance for two years. After losing job due to corona, inquired about Jobseekers’ Allowance. But can’t claim because needs to have been paying NI longer.
What happens to kids without homes & supportive parents?”

Allison Pearson

Of course, she knew all this stuff before deciding (for reasons best known to herself) becoming a marginally more erudite Katie Hopkins should be her career move.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 11:28 am

https://twitter.com/b8taFPS/status/1239863383354224641

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -free-city

My new organic-farmer neighbour was enthusing about this when we did our distance-meeting in the field just now !

He might be going into town, in a few days, but like me he's well-supplied . The agri co-op is only allowed to sell feed, so I let him have my spare saw guide and chain.

Spuds and peas on the woodstove

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 11:34 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 12:12 pm

Did I hear Tim (deeply unpleasant but dim) Martin correctly when he said, last night in a news interview, that it was a fact that the virus has never been passed on in a pub?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 12:32 pm

Actually the BBC are having a decent crisis overall (which is much needed by them and us) but why on earth was he allowed to spout his drivel on Radio 4 this morning?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 12:43 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Actually the BBC are having a decent crisis overall (which is much needed by them and us) but why on earth was he allowed to spout his drivel on Radio 4 this morning?

Interviews with GPs and epidemiologists instead of politicians and political commentators has upped the factual content enormously.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 12:43 pm

PorFavor wrote:Did I hear Tim (deeply unpleasant but dim) Martin correctly when he said, last night in a news interview, that it was a fact that the virus has never been passed on in a pub?

Missed that, no TV , but is it true that his bar staff are not allowed to even wear (their own) masks and gloves ?

Naturally he doesn't provide them .

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 1:06 pm

California ...[Governor Gavin]...Newsom on Thursday estimated that 25.5 million people – roughly 56% of California’s population – were likely to become infected with the coronavirus, an alarming projection offered by the governor in a letter to Donald Trump. Newsom called on the president to deploy a navy hospital ship, the USNS Mercy, and station it in the port of Los Angeles to help the giant metro area deal with a fast-moving health crisis.

“In the last 24 hours, we had 126 new Covid-19 cases, a 21% increase. In some parts of our state, the case rate is doubling every four days,” Newsom wrote, adding that evidence of community transmission had been found in at least 23 counties. We project that roughly 56% of our population – 25.5 million people – will be infected with the virus over an eight-week period,” he said.

All Californians ordered to shelter in place as governor estimates more than 25m will get virus

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 1:20 pm

Good afternoon, everyone.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 1:30 pm

frog222 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Did I hear Tim (deeply unpleasant but dim) Martin correctly when he said, last night in a news interview, that it was a fact that the virus has never been passed on in a pub?
Missed that, no TV , but is it true that his bar staff are not allowed to even wear (their own) masks and gloves ?

Naturally he doesn't provide them .

A deeply unpleasant man, indeed.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 1:43 pm

Just had an e-mail from the children's school. It seems a big list of frontline workers plus not limiting to children who have both parents in such roles has led to quite a high number of requests to keep their children in school. They appear to be trying to put people off by stressing the advice now is that children are at risk if congregating in large groups and hinting they are already short on staff due to self-isolation as well as some staff being seconded by the council.
"Clusterfuck" is the word that springs to mind.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 3:02 pm

Public Health England
Total UK cases COVID-19 Cases Update
as of 09:00 (GMT) on 19/03/2020
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboar ... 484dd4bb14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Areas with confirmed cases are increasing all over the UK

edited to add the link for the mobile website link dashboard
it's easier to read, I think
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboar ... 5d2a9070ae

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 4:21 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Public Health England
Total UK cases COVID-19 Cases Update
as of 09:00 (GMT) on 19/03/2020
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboar ... 484dd4bb14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Areas with confirmed cases are increasing all over the UK

edited to add the link for the mobile website link dashboard
it's easier to read, I think
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboar ... 5d2a9070ae

cJA -- London hospitals beginning to be overwhelmed since last night .
https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/hospitals-cr ... 89.article

BC just declared lockdown, like here.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 4:55 pm

frog222 wrote:---
cJA -- London hospitals beginning to be overwhelmed since last night .
https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/hospitals-cr ... 89.article

BC just declared lockdown, like here.

Concise quote below from the US Centers from Disease Control (CDC)

Volume 26, Number 6—June 2020
Early Release - Estimating Risk for Death from 2019 Novel Coronavirus Disease, China, January–February 2020
Kenji Mizumoto and Gerardo Chowell
Author affiliations: Georgia State University, Atlanta, Georgia, USA (K. Mizumoto, G. Chowell); Kyoto University, Kyoto, Japan (K. Mizumoto)
"Because the risk for death from COVID-19 is probably associated with a breakdown of the healthcare system in the absence of pharmaceutical interventions (i.e., vaccination and antiviral drugs), enhanced public health interventions (including social distancing measures, quarantine, enhanced infection control in healthcare settings, and movement restrictions), as well as enhanced hygienic measures in the general population and an increase in healthcare system capacity, should be implemented to rapidly contain the epidemic."
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0233_article

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 5:14 pm

From our Dear Leader's press conference

Night clubs, theatres, gyms, cinemas and leisure centures must also close on the same timescale.

Balls.

That means my pool closes.

Good job I went 4 times this week. My back will start to give me problems in about a week...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 5:14 pm

A highly contagious virus with no vaccine or pharmaceutical treatment specific to that virus overwhelms healthcare systems. People requiring hospitalisation for treatments available likely ensuring their survival won't get that treatment if the hospital hasn't staff or equipment enough providing it. It'd happen anywhere. What isn't inevitable everywhere is a systematically underfunded healthcare system for years prior that virus' introduction into the population without enough staff, equipment and responsible national leadership providing coherent, decisive instruction denying necessary resources to people needing it.

edited trying for greater clarity
good luck
that's as good as it's going to get

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 5:20 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:---
That means my pool closes.

Good job I went 4 times this week. My back will start to give me problems in about a week...

(cJA edit)
I'm sorry for that, I understand. Swimming is a treatment for your back pain not easily replaced with another activity.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 5:45 pm

Cometh the hour cometh the utter shits

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 5:48 pm

Well take that Tim Martin.

Is there anything official about libraries?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 5:55 pm

https://www.scotsman.com/health/safe-us ... ds-2450364" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The opinion of Public Health is that it is “generally safe” to go swimming at this time, as water and the chlorine within the swimming pools would help to kill the virus.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:05 pm

For renters, I’m announcing today nearly £1bn of support by increasing the generosity of housing benefit and Universal Credit, so that the Local Housing Allowance will cover at least 30% of market rents in your area.

I thought it was 30% now, I'm obviously behind the times.
It's pathetic.

No mention of the benefit cap.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:07 pm

HindleA wrote:Cometh the hour cometh the utter shits

Their website is still accepting bookings.
https://coylumbridgeaviemorehotel.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:10 pm

gilsey wrote:
For renters, I’m announcing today nearly £1bn of support by increasing the generosity of housing benefit and Universal Credit, so that the Local Housing Allowance will cover at least 30% of market rents in your area.
I thought it was 30% now, I'm obviously behind the times.
It's pathetic.

No mention of the benefit cap.

Or a few other things. They are gradually doing more, but still basically the minimum they think they can get away with.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:11 pm

gilsey wrote:
For renters, I’m announcing today nearly £1bn of support by increasing the generosity of housing benefit and Universal Credit, so that the Local Housing Allowance will cover at least 30% of market rents in your area.
I thought it was 30% now, I'm obviously behind the times.
It's pathetic.

No mention of the benefit cap.

"increasing the generosity of housing benefit" !

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:12 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:https://www.scotsman.com/health/safe-us ... ds-2450364

The opinion of Public Health is that it is “generally safe” to go swimming at this time, as water and the chlorine within the swimming pools would help to kill the virus.

Won't help you if the place is shut.

Back extensions as shown here do the trick for me since my slipped disk last year, I'm not a swimmer. I expect you know this.
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/e ... -sciatica/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:31 pm

So...tonight's gig at Cafe Oto features pianist Alexander Hawkins, someone who I've seen many times there and elsewhere and who I know well.

https://www.cafeoto.co.uk/events/oto-fundraiser-five/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Live stream in the link and starts around 8:30pm. Two sets - one solo and then a trio after a break.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:41 pm

Italy had a spike in cases/deaths today, after some hopeful signs in the previous 48 hours

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 6:56 pm

Ok so as far as I can work out Universal Credit and Working Tax Credits are going up by £20.83 a week for the next year. Will this apply to ESA and JSA?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:05 pm

Hello nesters

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:07 pm

Hello, tinyclanger2.

Louder?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:09 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Hello nesters

hey babe
pleased ta see ya

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:12 pm

What was that PF? Sitting around all day speaking Afghan?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:16 pm

[youtube]GkjwfrJo6uc[/youtube]

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:31 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Ok so as far as I can work out Universal Credit and Working Tax Credits are going up by £20.83 a week for the next year. Will this apply to ESA and JSA?

I'm disappointed I have to remain disappointed in government's response here. For people with jobs with an employer not going belly up, not on a wage more than the UK's median, they'll get 80% of it and may be okay until June if they don't require hospitalisation. Consumers pay VAT, not businesses, giving businesses VAT breaks gives those businesses more money. If it means the business remains open, providing a worthwhile product and employing people, that's good. None of UC's problems have been resolved and money won't be forthcoming any faster. Statutory sick pay remains less than £95 a week. Housing benefit hasn't been increased, the chancellor is confused there. Self-employed people are still up a tree. Perhaps the chancellor hopes they'll develop entrepreneurial talent in toilet roll and hand sanitiser distribution by selling them dear after having purchased the lot leaving the shelves bare.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:35 pm

I want to be happy with this government. I really do. Our lives depend upon government doing good with the power they possess.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:36 pm

gilsey wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:https://www.scotsman.com/health/safe-us ... ds-2450364

The opinion of Public Health is that it is “generally safe” to go swimming at this time, as water and the chlorine within the swimming pools would help to kill the virus.
Won't help you if the place is shut.
Back extensions as shown here do the trick for me since my slipped disk last year, I'm not a swimmer. I expect you know this.
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/e ... -sciatica/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Roger, I was also going to suggest that there are almost certainly other possibilities for your back !

I also saw the thing on chlorine and swimming pools .................

BUT you first have to get there, (HOW exactly ?) , then (perhaps) open a door . Entrance to my swimming pool/sauna in Granville is next by an electronic wristband .

No prob! Push one's way into the cubicle , OK . Lock or not lock the door ? Then choose the bit of the exit door to pull on to exit . Next the pre-swim shower cubicle , slather virus-killing soap on hands before touching anything .

NEXT . Which bit of the sauna doorhandle do you pull on to open it ?

On last Saturday I was ALONE for nearly all of my half hour , but another ****ing bloke came in for a bit, he didn't actually cough .... !
But did all of you know that aerosol pollution from exhalations can be persistent for .... 'some time' . But basically it's a few hours only

OK ! So you just want to swim ? First of all, the changing places. Then the water itself . Supposedly; chlorine kills , but my lovely pool doesn't smell of chlorine , so does Ozone (or whatever) work as well as Chlorine ? Dunno !

Well there are doors and other surfaces which MAY be contaminated before you even get near the pool , and the consequences PARTICULARLY for anyone over , say, SIXTY, are that IF you get a serious infection ... you come second, or even terminally last , in any queue for Intensive Care .

I am 99% sure that it has already happened that OAP's who are not necessarily in 'that bad health' ( I'm actually quite fit at approaching 73 ), have been triaged in favour of younger people . That is what was always done on battlefields . For worse cases, those who had Known Pre-existing Conditions, a simpler decision to make -- it's the corridor for you .

When the Italian medics shared their experience of triaging , the official response in France only a FEW DAYS ago was --

"WE DON'T DO THAT"

That has now changed. And since last night, just about, in England too.

Be as careful as you can, everybody . Distancing, think before you TOUCH !

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:38 pm

I remember eggs. Those kinda egg shaped things weren't they? Haven't seen one in weeks. I miss eggs. Carbonara is really shit without them. Not that I have an pasta. Remember pasta?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:45 pm

Local authorities have the names of those paying council tax in their area. How about one day a week local authorities sell toilet rolls and other essentials not on the shelf in reasonable quantities to them? People with motor vehicles are showing up at dawn and buying three of everything using every member of their family at every shop within a fifteen mile radius. They're like locusts, these people. Very pleasant during non-stressful times, I'm sure.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:51 pm

@citizenJA

I'm at a loss to understand where, and how, people are safely storing all this toilet paper. Should we be bracing ourselves for a rash of serious toilet roll related accidents?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:51 pm

@frog222
I'm obsessive compulsive and it's saving lives.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 7:59 pm

PorFavor wrote:@citizenJA

I'm at a loss to understand where, and how, people are safely storing all this toilet paper. Should we be bracing ourselves for a rash of serious toilet roll related accidents?

I cheerfully told a group of people with toilet rolls I'd be 'round to borrow a roll when we run out because the market shelves were bare. We can do this peacefully or something else less nice. I left it there for them to consider.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 8:01 pm

I'm called Scrap by a German I knew in California, the strong, valuable bits gathered out of a disaster area.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 20 Mar, 2020 8:02 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@citizenJA

I'm at a loss to understand where, and how, people are safely storing all this toilet paper. Should we be bracing ourselves for a rash of serious toilet roll related accidents?
I cheerfully told a group of people with toilet rolls I'd be 'round to borrow a roll when we run out because the market shelves were bare. We can do this peacefully or something else less nice. I left it there for them to consider.

By "borrow" do you mean that you intend to use it and then return it?

Edited to add -

PTO