Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

A home from home
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
Majority in England turned down for self-isolation support, data shows

Exclusive: only 30% of people who apply get financial help, according to council figures

Frances O’Grady, the general secretary of the TUC, which carried out the research, said the “patchy” and “paltry” approach to reimbursing people’s lost earnings was forcing people to choose between “doing the right thing and being plunged into hardship”. (Guardian)
Time for Keir Starmer to make one of his searing "non-political" interventions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... data-shows
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 11115
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Good morning.
talkRADIO
@talkRADIO
DUP MP Ian Paisley Jnr tells Julia "Northern Ireland is being treated completely different from the United Kingdom when it comes to Brexit," following mounting tensions around post-Brexit Irish Sea trading arrangements: "We have been betrayed."

@JuliaHB1
Anand Menon
@anandMenon1
Well yes. That's because we signed a deal saying it would be treated completely differently.
Well quite. What were they expecting exactly?
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
GetYou
Minister of State
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:16 pm
Location: Labour-Liberal marginal

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by GetYou »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Well quite. What were they expecting exactly?
Yes, I often wonder if they are genuinely that thick or just pretending to be.
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by gilsey »

Genuinely thick, imo.

Doesn't excuse the tories for exploiting them.
Last edited by gilsey on Wed 03 Feb, 2021 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by gilsey »

Cirian75
@cirian75
Patriotism is

Loving your country by:

Caring for its poor
Funding its institutions by your paying taxes
Uniting communities
Educating kids
Restore its environment
Plan its future
Build alliances
Tell it the truth

You know what's not patriotic?

Flag shagging & not paying taxes
Blue heartMadoE
@MadoE007
Replying to
@cirian75
But flags are so cheap, superficial and flap in the wind.
Exactly like the tories.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Willow904 »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ak-reveals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.....The research also concludes that voters believe Labour is the party of “spend, spend, spend”, blamed on the leadership of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
"blamed on"? I like to think "credited to". And when the country comes round to the idea that our country and services need investing in again, as they surely must do at some point before our roads start to look like they should feature in a "world's worst roads" documentary, Labour should be poised to be the first choice to do so. If Labour can't be trusted as the party to put public services before tax cuts, I can only agree with the opening sentiments of the article - what are they for?

They should be for reducing inequality, of course. Which means showing people how reducing inequality improves outcomes for everyone, including the better off. It's the kind of thing Ed Miliband was good at, the bigger picture, but I'm still not seeing that Starmer gets it really.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

gilsey wrote:Genuinely thick, imo.
See also Dido Harding -
Pippa Crerar
@PippaCrerar
Replying to @PippaCrerar
Dido Harding says "none of us were able to predict" that the virus would mutate or that new variants would emerge. (Politics Live, Guardian)
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Willow904 »

Well no, because they're not scientists, but all the experts knew and could, and probably did, tell them. Only listening right-wing think tanks that skew the facts to fit pre-determined political and economic biases is an active choice to be a wanker and not the reasonable excuse Dido seems to think it is.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

gilsey wrote:Genuinely thick, imo.

Doesn't excuse the tories for exploiting them.
I'm not aware of a great deal of original political thinking emanating from the DUP in the last half century, lets just put it that way :mrgreen:
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by gilsey »

Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ak-reveals
.....The research also concludes that voters believe Labour is the party of “spend, spend, spend”, blamed on the leadership of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
"blamed on"? I like to think "credited to". And when the country comes round to the idea that our country and services need investing in again, as they surely must do at some point before our roads start to look like they should feature in a "world's worst roads" documentary, Labour should be poised to be the first choice to do so. If Labour can't be trusted as the party to put public services before tax cuts, I can only agree with the opening sentiments of the article - what are they for?

They should be for reducing inequality, of course. Which means showing people how reducing inequality improves outcomes for everyone, including the better off. It's the kind of thing Ed Miliband was good at, the bigger picture, but I'm still not seeing that Starmer gets it really.
Ed Miliband. <sigh>

It's hard not to despair of this 'policy-making by focus group', might as well just listen to a few BBC News vox-pops. Dull as ditchwater, lowest-common-denominator stuff. Tories do it but they only recruit from their base, how do Labour recruit theirs?

Starmer's advisor is apparently Claire Ainsley formerly of JRF, I came across this the other day, read it and weep.

https://politicalquarterly.blog/2019/11 ... democracy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Could public attitudes led policy making fix our democracy?
No. HTH.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

Willow904 wrote:Well no, because they're not scientists, but all the experts knew and could, and probably did, tell them. Only listening right-wing think tanks that skew the facts to fit pre-determined political and economic biases is an active choice to be a wanker and not the reasonable excuse Dido seems to think it is.
Yes. Hence my comment, the other day, on Kate Bingham. At least she seems to consult and take some notice of the experts at her disposal.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Focus groups are always going to come up with all sorts of rubbish. I genuinely wouldn't worry about it too much at *this* stage.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Focus groups are always going to come up with all sorts of rubbish. I genuinely wouldn't worry about it too much at *this* stage.
So why persist with focus groups? To continue using them sort of hints to me that their views are going to be taken into account.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Because political parties have somehow been convinced they have some sort of special insight?

(they happened under Corbyn's leadership as well)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by gilsey »

PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Well no, because they're not scientists, but all the experts knew and could, and probably did, tell them. Only listening right-wing think tanks that skew the facts to fit pre-determined political and economic biases is an active choice to be a wanker and not the reasonable excuse Dido seems to think it is.
Yes. Hence my comment, the other day, on Kate Bingham. At least she seems to consult and take some notice of the experts at her disposal.
Bingham has a first-class degree in Biochemistry, which puts her at a significant advantage to dozy Dido when knowing what questions to ask and how to interpret the answers.
"None of us were able to predict" that Coronavirus would mutate
:wall:
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by gilsey »

PorFavor wrote:
So why persist with focus groups?
They could use them to find out the best ways to sell the basic principles to the voters, eg reducing inequality, properly funding public services, and whatever the opposite of xenophobia is.
That assumes they have those basic principles, though.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Just got off the phone with the DWP and because of the Work Capability Assessment backlog due to Covid my ESA award has been extended until 2023. I was supposed to be reassessed this month but now I've got another two years of freedom from the hideous stress and worry of it all. I can't quite believe it. Think I'll open that bottle of fizz tonight that I didn't get round to drinking at New Year.

It's a horrible reason to be given such a break but I'm not going to deny I did a little dance.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

These two year extensions are exactly what happened when IDS screwed up the assessment system, but the DWP refused to admit it officially. I wonder if they'll do the same this time. Because there will be thousands of people like me worried sick about what's happening with their benefits who need to know these extensions are being awarded. All it would take would be a simple announcement and all that anxiety could be lifted. Last time they lied and denied it was happening because their idiot boss and ATOS had made a pig's ear of things, this time it's for reasons beyond their control so I can't see anyone blaming them for it.

But it's the DWP and being secretive bastards is in their nature.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

gilsey wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
So why persist with focus groups?
They could use them to find out the best ways to sell the basic principles to the voters, eg reducing inequality, properly funding public services, and whatever the opposite of xenophobia is.
That assumes they have those basic principles, though.
And now we have Labour HQ saying "this isn't actually a strategy paper", just something created for discussion.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... d-of-covid
Harding told MPs that while everyone wanted a “straightforward route out of the Covid crisis”, test and trace was “not a single silver bullet”.
Once again, and I can't stress this enough, silver bullets kill werewolves.

They would be quite useless against a virus.

Much like Dido Harding.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Its nice to hear that news, Sky.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

This is pretty funny. As way of an explanation the Dominion voting machine people are suing just about all the Trumpists on the American right for spreading bizarre conspiracy theories and outright lies about their company. The right wing media including Newsmax and Fox were sent cease and desist letters about promoting this on their networks and are clearly shitting themselves about possible litigation. So it probably wasn't the best idea to invite on Mike Lindell owner of the 'My Pillow' company who just happens to be a completely round the bend, far right fruitcake who, amongst other insane things, tried to get Trump to declare martial law and refuse to accept the election result. Mike's already being sued by Dominion for his nonsense and appears not to care, whereas the host of this segment clearly does care. In fact he cares enough to run away.

User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 11115
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Blue6oy
@blue6oy
Here's an idea: instead of honouring Captain Tom by clapping why not honour him by voting against the people who made it necessary for him to spend part of his final year alive walking continuously around his garden while they sat back and made themselves and their friends rich.
3:52 PM · Feb 3, 2021·Twitter Web App
Quite.

I didn't clap for the simple reason I was in a Zoom Governing Body meeting...
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Good lord but I'm sick of this virus.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Am developing a strong desire to go on a several month pub crawl of the UK.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

In all honesty I will select the bars WITH beer (etc)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Am developing a strong desire to go on a several month pub crawl of the UK.
I'd offer to join you but I fear I would lack the requisite stamina to keep up.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Hope that cJA comes back refreshed soon.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by gilsey »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Good lord but I'm sick of this virus.
At the moment I'm more sick of the weather, here oop north. Enough winter already.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

This is ridiculous. I went to sign up for the 'Benefits and work' forum simply to write a post about people being given these award extensions due to Covid. There's nothing there about it and I felt it would help if people knew it was happening. But you have to pay a subscription of nigh on £20 just to post on their forum. Sod that. Asking folks to pay £20 just to post a bit of helpful information is taking the piss.
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Am open to suggestions on where the Clanger UK pub crawl should go. But I have a long-standing appnt with PfY in Leeds (Fenton).
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

Whose forum is it? Who's getting the money from the subscription fees?
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

gilsey wrote:At the moment I'm more sick of the weather, here oop north. Enough winter already.
Indeed. Whoever came up with the idea of February must have been a right miserable bastard.
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

(It was me)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

PorFavor wrote:Whose forum is it? Who's getting the money from the subscription fees?
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

I've no idea who runs it. Presumably the money goes to the mods running the forum and those writing the guides. Which is fair enough, I don't begrudge them a penny because it does seem they're able to help people. But it does become a problem when it stops someone like me coming along and dropping off a quick post informing their members of something important.

Of course there's always the possibility my information could be useless if my case is unique and the DWP have singled me out for special treatment because they love me so much. But the chances of that are so vanishingly miniscule that the incredible shrinking man would need a tiny microscope to see them.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

gilsey wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Good lord but I'm sick of this virus.
At the moment I'm more sick of the weather, here oop north. Enough winter already.
Personally, wouldn't mind if there was more actual snow. But right now its just damp and *bloody* cold.

EDIT: and of course I am in Cumbria, where the white stuff is not exactly unknown......
Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Wed 03 Feb, 2021 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Am open to suggestions on where the Clanger UK pub crawl should go. But I have a long-standing appnt with PfY in Leeds (Fenton).
PFY?

I've not been in the Fenton in years, probably since I was a student, it's just outside comfortable range for a Leeds city centre pub crawl, but I remember it being a good proper pub. Not like that barge thing down the road, Dry Dock? That place is bloody awful.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Personally, wouldn't mind if there was more actual snow. But right now its just damp and *bloody* cold.
May i enquire where you are approximately located AK?
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Paul from Yorkshire.
I think I have walked past the barge thing but it was after my time.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Paul from Yorkshire.
I think I have walked past the barge thing but it was after my time.
"After your time"? What, you mean after closing time so you kept walking?
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

There's a pub called The George in Leeds, on a corner next to the hospital. I used to go there for a small weekly 'alternative' music gathering in the basement. This would be maybe mid 2000's. Anyway at the end of the evening every week Chinese people would turn up and ask us to leave quite vociferously. On a couple of occasions I was so drunk I refused and hung around while they did their thing. Their thing being all in Chinese so I had no idea what was going on but it mainly seemed to be an old man lecturing everyone while I tried to impress the nearest woman who was on her own with my drunken charms and sign language. This never worked.

It turned out the owner of the pub had done a deal with a local Chinese gangmaster (the old man) and those poor people were essentially slaves who'd been trafficked into the country and slept in that basement at night while working in restaurants during the day.

Once it was busted nearly every Chinese restaurant in Leeds city centre ended up closing, in fact off the top of my head I can't think of a single one still open. It's all Thai now. So god knows where they're being kept.

But The George survives. With few aware of its dirty secrets.
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Apparently it appeared in 1993.
(The Dry Dock)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

The Dry Dock is a barge that did once work on the river Aire then was moved to dry land and infested by wankers who have no idea of bar etiquette.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Leeds pub crawl.

Duck and Drake, The Ship, The Angel, The Victoria, then a refreshing walk down to Leeds city tap if you need to get a train and if not cross the river to the Adelphi and end up shifaced having a last pint or two in the North Bar or listening to cheap zazz in the Sellar bar at £3.50 a pint.

People talk about 'London prices' but if you want a drink up North after 11pm it's every bit as bad.
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

I'm in.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Cheap zazz always gets them.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Wednesday, 3rd February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Locked