I don't think he wants to be an MP, to be frank. He's probably realised he can't make as much dosh at it as he thought.ohsocynical wrote:Hello GetYou... Good to see you.
And the good news keeps on coming.
Dave Williams @realdavedoubleu 17 mins17 minutes ago
#nigelfarage now saying #ukip breakthrough in 2020 - no earthquake this year - making excuses early to save his job?
Thursday 12th February 2015
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Last edited by giselle97 on Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Happy to be called a Labour Party Tribalist as I don't consider it as an insult in the grand scheme of things!
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Welcome from me as wellGetYou wrote:The other candidate's backstory must be a corker!rebeccariots2 wrote:And UKIP have deselected another candidate for him ....
Forget the teeth curling Jaffa cakes - I have crackers, cheese and..........MARMITE yay!
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
And more on the latest UKIP candidate ...
Some good comments BTL from the people of CoventryUKIP to parachute controversial 'pop preacher' into Coventry for general election
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... er-8632711
Wayne • 5 hours ago
"In 2004 he founded East London Christian Choir independent school, in Hackney, which taught pupils creationism was fact rather than evolution."
Unbelievable that in this day and age this is still allowed to be taught in a "school" UKIP has a lot of momentum in all parts of the country, I am glad they decided to put someone like him in Coventry because no one will vote for him
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Temporary Assistant to the Chief Whip & Policy Officer
National Assembly for Wales Labour Party
Cardiff
Salary:
£23,049 - £32,532 (National Assembly for Wales pay band 1). Recruitment normally takes place at the bottom of this scale
Anyone?
http://www.w4mpjobs.org/JobDetails.aspx?jobid=49532" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
National Assembly for Wales Labour Party
Cardiff
Salary:
£23,049 - £32,532 (National Assembly for Wales pay band 1). Recruitment normally takes place at the bottom of this scale
Anyone?
http://www.w4mpjobs.org/JobDetails.aspx?jobid=49532" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Another black guy for them.rebeccariots2 wrote:And more on the latest UKIP candidate ...
Some good comments BTL from the people of CoventryUKIP to parachute controversial 'pop preacher' into Coventry for general election
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... er-8632711Wayne • 5 hours ago
"In 2004 he founded East London Christian Choir independent school, in Hackney, which taught pupils creationism was fact rather than evolution."
Unbelievable that in this day and age this is still allowed to be taught in a "school" UKIP has a lot of momentum in all parts of the country, I am glad they decided to put someone like him in Coventry because no one will vote for him
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
He sounds positively benign and full of dignity in comparison ... his comments on this, which are quoted in both news items, are very very restrained in the circumstance. And he was properly selected by the local party members. I cannot see an obvious reason - other than money - why UKIP would prefer the pop preacher over the local man. But maybe there are things that only UKIP know ... it is after all 'a state of mind' according to Farage today.GetYou wrote:The other candidate's backstory must be a corker!rebeccariots2 wrote:And UKIP have deselected another candidate for him ....
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
David Cameron has tens of thousands of Twitter followers who DON'T EXIST
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/david-came ... er-5154280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/david-came ... er-5154280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Ye gads Tubby - if you are right with that, it really does tell you everything about the UKIP state of mind - utter crassness. Any black man will do, eh - regardless of views, character, likelihood of winning, potential for embarrassment, lack of connection to an area and community ...Tubby Isaacs wrote:Another black guy for them.rebeccariots2 wrote:And more on the latest UKIP candidate ...
Some good comments BTL from the people of CoventryUKIP to parachute controversial 'pop preacher' into Coventry for general election
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... er-8632711Wayne • 5 hours ago
"In 2004 he founded East London Christian Choir independent school, in Hackney, which taught pupils creationism was fact rather than evolution."
Unbelievable that in this day and age this is still allowed to be taught in a "school" UKIP has a lot of momentum in all parts of the country, I am glad they decided to put someone like him in Coventry because no one will vote for him
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Do you even think she's the proper leader?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
- TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
You can of course take any view you wish (although doing so may devalue the room).PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
However my objection to Surgeon is simply she is only interested in making Scotland independent. She will accept any price to achieve that, and she doesn't give a toss what it means for the people of Scotland.
The fact she has said nothing about oil, and what that would have meant for iScotland is unacceptable.
Release the Guardvarks.
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
But she has nothing to say - nothing at all - about UK wide policies, she just wants an independent Scotland and will go to any lengths to get it. An opportunist.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Well apart from being openly anti-austerity and saying quite clearly that the best way to reduce the deficit is to increase public spending.AngryAsWell wrote:But she has nothing to say - nothing at all - about UK wide policies, she just wants an independent Scotland and will go to any lengths to get it. An opportunist.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
Which is both economically and morally correct in my view.
- TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Actually I don't think she is an opportunist. I think she is a religious zealot (where her religion is nationalism). She will take any position to achieve independence because she -believes- that it is the right thing for Scotland.AngryAsWell wrote:But she has nothing to say - nothing at all - about UK wide policies, she just wants an independent Scotland and will go to any lengths to get it. An opportunist.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
I would describe her as " The Scottish Iain Duncan Smith"
Release the Guardvarks.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
No apology required - and I'm not sure it is such a different view. I'm not necessarily agin Sturgeon ... I'm trying to be pragmatic in seeing the politics and the strategy and giving her some respect for how she is playing the hands. The end aim for her though is to further the desire for independence in Scotland ... I don't think she's going to want to be too pally with Labour because it won't help that end. So the rhetoric will continue even if they support Labour on some issues ... she'll also have learnt from Clegg and the Lib Dems how not to look supine and as if it isn't a real tussle to ensure your principles aren't ridden roughshod over by the evil bit of the partnership.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
rebeccariots2 wrote:Ye gads Tubby - if you are right with that, it really does tell you everything about the UKIP state of mind - utter crassness. Any black man will do, eh - regardless of views, character, likelihood of winning, potential for embarrassment, lack of connection to an area and community ...Tubby Isaacs wrote:Another black guy for them.rebeccariots2 wrote:And more on the latest UKIP candidate ...
Some good comments BTL from the people of Coventry
Parties who hate "political correctness" are the most politically correct when it comes to non-white loons.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Ouch.TechnicalEphemera wrote:Actually I don't think she is an opportunist. I think she is a religious zealot (where her religion is nationalism). She will take any position to achieve independence because she -believes- that it is the right thing for Scotland.AngryAsWell wrote:But she has nothing to say - nothing at all - about UK wide policies, she just wants an independent Scotland and will go to any lengths to get it. An opportunist.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
I would describe her as " The Scottish Iain Duncan Smith"
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
I don't have any axe to grind with Sturgeon particularly; I don't entirely trust her, but I think that is more because of the rabid mob of her supporters who descend on anybody who dares to suggest she might just be telling the odd porkie, like all politicians.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Love the last line...Tubby Isaacs wrote:rebeccariots2 wrote:Ye gads Tubby - if you are right with that, it really does tell you everything about the UKIP state of mind - utter crassness. Any black man will do, eh - regardless of views, character, likelihood of winning, potential for embarrassment, lack of connection to an area and community ...Tubby Isaacs wrote: Another black guy for them.
Parties who hate "political correctness" are the most politically correct when it comes to non-white loons.
And during the 2010 general election he stood in Barking but took just one per cent of the vote.
What on earth are they thinking?
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
- TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Except she doesn't mean any of it. She is simply saying it to garner votes, much like Clegg and his student pledge.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Well apart from being openly anti-austerity and saying quite clearly that the best way to reduce the deficit is to increase public spending.AngryAsWell wrote:But she has nothing to say - nothing at all - about UK wide policies, she just wants an independent Scotland and will go to any lengths to get it. An opportunist.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
Which is both economically and morally correct in my view.
- If the SNP had won the referendum, she would right now be embarking on the biggest austerity program the UK has ever seen. She would be slashing Scottish spending on welfare and health, probably slicing chunks off pensions. She would have no choice because the vote and oil crash means she has a huge deficit, no sovereign currency and no credit facility.
Nobody who cared about people's welfare, or believed austerity was bad would have put their people in that situation. But Sturgeon and Salmond did, because they only actually care about independence.
Release the Guardvarks.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Does anyone seriously think there'd be no deal with the Tories if they offered the SNP a chance of another referendum?
Blah, blah, historic opportunity, blah.
Blah, blah, historic opportunity, blah.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
From that article:AngryAsWell wrote:David Cameron has tens of thousands of Twitter followers who DON'T EXIST
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/david-came ... er-5154280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Whilst I'm all for social media encouraging people to get involved in politics, I can only imagine the deluge of shash that will consist of.But social media experts slammed the fake followers for artificially boosting an MP’s profile in the run-up to the election, where Twitter and Facebook will play major roles in campaigning.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Haha, hadn't seen this.
Miliband repeated the Fink allegation at his old comprehensive school.
Fink's not sueing.
Miliband repeated the Fink allegation at his old comprehensive school.
Fink's not sueing.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
"Nobody can call us racist now!"RogerOThornhill wrote: Love the last line...
And during the 2010 general election he stood in Barking but took just one per cent of the vote.
What on earth are they thinking?
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
They're not exactly letting the NO vote lie, are they?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
If Salmond didn't want it, he's spent 30 odd years talking rhubarb.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
They'd be silly to.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Does anyone seriously think there'd be no deal with the Tories if they offered the SNP a chance of another referendum?
Blah, blah, historic opportunity, blah.
Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Yes.Tubby Isaacs wrote: If Salmond didn't want it, he's spent 30 odd years talking rhubarb.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Worrying stuff. Has Mark Carney been right about anything yet? Serious question. His targets re interest rates and inflation seem to have bounced around more than the badgers' goalposts.Nick Sutton @suttonnick 38m38 minutes ago
Friday's FT front page:
Central banks take extreme action to stave off deflation
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Tubby they want more power for Scotland but not independence. It was called Devo Max. It's a reasonable goal and they don't have it yet.Tubby Isaacs wrote:They're not exactly letting the NO vote lie, are they?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
If Salmond didn't want it, he's spent 30 odd years talking rhubarb.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
It could have been interesting, I suppose. Always thought the UK would be able to force things like conditions over the currency union on them. But maybe they'd enjoy wasting time while oil company profits improved.TechnicalEphemera wrote:Except she doesn't mean any of it. She is simply saying it to garner votes, much like Clegg and his student pledge.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Well apart from being openly anti-austerity and saying quite clearly that the best way to reduce the deficit is to increase public spending.AngryAsWell wrote: But she has nothing to say - nothing at all - about UK wide policies, she just wants an independent Scotland and will go to any lengths to get it. An opportunist.
Which is both economically and morally correct in my view.
- If the SNP had won the referendum, she would right now be embarking on the biggest austerity program the UK has ever seen. She would be slashing Scottish spending on welfare and health, probably slicing chunks off pensions. She would have no choice because the vote and oil crash means she has a huge deficit, no sovereign currency and no credit facility.
Nobody who cared about people's welfare, or believed austerity was bad would have put their people in that situation. But Sturgeon and Salmond did, because they only actually care about independence.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
No need to apologise at all Paul, for taking a different view. For me it's about the ultimate aim of the SNP. As a Scot, I want to be in the United Kingdom. The SNP has another plan. I can't go for that. It's scarey.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
P.S. I was really sad to see that the DVLA when re-issuing my driving licence said I was born in the United Kingdom. My old one said I was born (proudly) in Scotland.
Last edited by giselle97 on Thu 12 Feb, 2015 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Happy to be called a Labour Party Tribalist as I don't consider it as an insult in the grand scheme of things!
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
I think that was the position when they bartered for the referendum. But the impetus and momentum of the YES campaign has moved it beyond that now surely ... even if Sturgeon and Salmond still only want Devo Max (and I'm not sure about that) - they've got a mass of people and their own party membership wanting the full caboodle.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Tubby they want more power for Scotland but not independence. It was called Devo Max. It's a reasonable goal and they don't have it yet.Tubby Isaacs wrote:They're not exactly letting the NO vote lie, are they?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
If Salmond didn't want it, he's spent 30 odd years talking rhubarb.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Thanks for the measured response Rebecca. I do get a bit upset on this issue because to me it's important and interesting, but I find any attempt at nuanced debate gets shut down here.rebeccariots2 wrote:No apology required - and I'm not sure it is such a different view. I'm not necessarily agin Sturgeon ... I'm trying to be pragmatic in seeing the politics and the strategy and giving her some respect for how she is playing the hands. The end aim for her though is to further the desire for independence in Scotland ... I don't think she's going to want to be too pally with Labour because it won't help that end. So the rhetoric will continue even if they support Labour on some issues ... she'll also have learnt from Clegg and the Lib Dems how not to look supine and as if it isn't a real tussle to ensure your principles aren't ridden roughshod over by the evil bit of the partnership.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
Perhaps GS has the answer in that I don't spend time at the Groan, where there is obviously a good deal of trolling on the subject.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Latest YouGov poll (11 - 12 Feb):
LAB - 34% (+1)
CON - 31% (-1)
UKIP - 15% (-)
GRN - 7% (-)
LDEM - 7% (-)
LAB - 34% (+1)
CON - 31% (-1)
UKIP - 15% (-)
GRN - 7% (-)
LDEM - 7% (-)
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
But the SNP has always supported independence, surely?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Tubby they want more power for Scotland but not independence. It was called Devo Max. It's a reasonable goal and they don't have it yet.Tubby Isaacs wrote:They're not exactly letting the NO vote lie, are they?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
If Salmond didn't want it, he's spent 30 odd years talking rhubarb.
Settling for Devo Max was merely a recognition that nowhere near enough people have supported independence, until very recently. I'd be surprised if now they were uninterested in independence.
Sturgeon on taking over from Salmond.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... a-sturgeon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's not respecting the NO vote at all.“In terms of when that might happen, that is entirely down to the wishes and the will of the Scottish people … One of the things that’s changed about Scotland is that the people are very firmly in charge.”
She said it was understandable and right that people were asking her about the circumstances for another referendum but she added: “I think it’s also a legitimate question to pose to Westminster parties because their conduct will have an influence here as well.
“And I would suggest to them if they want to stem rising demand for another referendum they should deliver those powers in full, they should think again about the austerity politics that are impoverishing so many of our children, they should think again about a new generation of Trident nuclear weapons on the Clyde. So their conduct I think will have a bearing on this as well as what I do and what the SNP does.”
- TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
1. Why did they campaign for it.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
2. Why are they now demanding a re-run?
Of course they want independence.
Release the Guardvarks.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
I really, really want Scotland to stay in the UK too, which is why I want us all to listen to their elected First Minister.giselle97 wrote:No need to apologise at all Paul, for taking a different view. For me it's about the ultimate aim of the SNP. As a Scot, I want to be in the United Kingdom. The SNP has another plan. I can't go for that. It's scarey.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
P.S. I was really sad to see that the DVLA when re-issuing my driving licence said I was born in the United Kingdom. My old one said I was born (proudly) in Scotland.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Paul, sorry for being fierce. I'm the chief anti-SNPer.
It didn't occur to me I was shutting down anything, but I'll be more mindful in the light of what you've said.
I am probably reacting to the Cybernats at the other place, as you say.
It didn't occur to me I was shutting down anything, but I'll be more mindful in the light of what you've said.
I am probably reacting to the Cybernats at the other place, as you say.
Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
If anybody should be taking legal action, it's Ed !
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Sorry TE I have the greatest respect for your posts but you're not making sense to me here. Cameron started this not the SNP. It's a matter of record. What else could they campaign for once Dave had denied them their preferred option?TechnicalEphemera wrote:1. Why did they campaign for it.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
2. Why are they now demanding a re-run?
Of course they want independence.
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Oh dear, NickyB in the morning...HindleA wrote:Latest YouGov poll (11 - 12 Feb):
LAB - 34% (+1)
CON - 31% (-1)
UKIP - 15% (-)
GRN - 7% (-)
LDEM - 7% (-)
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Thanks for thatTubby Isaacs wrote:Paul, sorry for being fierce. I'm the chief anti-SNPer.
It didn't occur to me I was shutting down anything, but I'll be more mindful in the light of what you've said.
I am probably reacting to the Cybernats at the other place, as you say.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
What Salmond and Sturgeon want is power. They don't really care about how it is achieved, but independence would be their ultimate power grab.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
Devo-max was never a realistic option for a Scotland-only referendum. (This is one, and possibly the only, correct decision by Cameron imo). It's perfectly acceptable for Scotland to vote on leaving the UK 'club' but it would not, I think, be acceptable to vote on changing the rules of the club unless all the members had a say.
The SNP gained their (slim) majority in Holyrood as a result of the defection of the LibDems to the Tories in Westminster the year before. Even then, they only polled 46% on a roughly 50% turnout. Since they have been in power they have frozen council tax, leaving LAs dependent on Holyrood; centralised control over the police (and fire service); tried (ongoing) to remove the requirement for corroborative evidence in court; overturned local planning decisions; taken over the committee system in Holyrood (and put in place their own presiding officer)... I could go on! Are these the actions of a socialist-leaning party or tartan Tories?
The constant carping about how Scotland should have more of everything fails to acknowledge that if they get their demands, other parts of the UK will be worse off.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Thanks for acknowledging what I said "As a Scot, I want to be in the United Kingdom. The SNP has another plan." I can appreciate your frustration Paul, really, and I honestly don't think it's fair to say that the debate here is being shut down. But I'm honestly of the opinion, and this has been discussed with my remaining Scottish relatives and my friends at great length, that there will be no "settling". She and Alex won't or can't settle for devo-max. It's Independence that's wanted - they won't settle. And yes, I am listening to her, as Scotland's elected First Minister, and I'm happy for her to stay in that post.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I really, really want Scotland to stay in the UK too, which is why I want us all to listen to their elected First Minister.giselle97 wrote:No need to apologise at all Paul, for taking a different view. For me it's about the ultimate aim of the SNP. As a Scot, I want to be in the United Kingdom. The SNP has another plan. I can't go for that. It's scarey.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
P.S. I was really sad to see that the DVLA when re-issuing my driving licence said I was born in the United Kingdom. My old one said I was born (proudly) in Scotland.
Last edited by giselle97 on Thu 12 Feb, 2015 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Happy to be called a Labour Party Tribalist as I don't consider it as an insult in the grand scheme of things!
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
But our First Minister was elected to run the devolved functions of the Scottish Parliament. That's all.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I really, really want Scotland to stay in the UK too, which is why I want us all to listen to their elected First Minister.giselle97 wrote:No need to apologise at all Paul, for taking a different view. For me it's about the ultimate aim of the SNP. As a Scot, I want to be in the United Kingdom. The SNP has another plan. I can't go for that. It's scarey.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm clearly in a minority here, but I still think we should give more time to Sturgeon.
It's not like I'm a big fan, BUT we've discussed before the psychopathic tendencies of Tories - I don't think Sturgeon is a psychopath. She's a politician who has defined herself in an arena where Labour is the opposition. All my instincts are we should listen and see what she has to say about UK wide politics rather than rule her out as beyond the pale. We may be surprised.
Sorry for taking a different view....
P.S. I was really sad to see that the DVLA when re-issuing my driving licence said I was born in the United Kingdom. My old one said I was born (proudly) in Scotland.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Wow, there's the Ed tax avoider again.
They tried this last time with that donation Labour got in shares. They lied about how advantageous that was, but there was a point.
But I doubt anyone thinks something your local solicitor will advise is like Fink and his offshore stuff.
They tried this last time with that donation Labour got in shares. They lied about how advantageous that was, but there was a point.
But I doubt anyone thinks something your local solicitor will advise is like Fink and his offshore stuff.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
That's all right.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Thanks for thatTubby Isaacs wrote:Paul, sorry for being fierce. I'm the chief anti-SNPer.
It didn't occur to me I was shutting down anything, but I'll be more mindful in the light of what you've said.
I am probably reacting to the Cybernats at the other place, as you say.
I get too obsessed with cybernatters. It'll do me good.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
Jesus, some berk in the QT audience thinks that CT rates should be cut as that's why companies are avoiding paying it!
I remember when the CT rate was 52%! It's going to be 20% in April. They won't ever be satisfied until it's 0%.
I remember when the CT rate was 52%! It's going to be 20% in April. They won't ever be satisfied until it's 0%.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Thursday 12th February 2015
This is my view, expressed with less of my heat.Eric_WLothian wrote:What Salmond and Sturgeon want is power. They don't really care about how it is achieved, but independence would be their ultimate power grab.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hang on though. Remember Salmond (who I don't like btw but have some grudging admiration for) wanted Devo Max not independence. It was sodding Cameron who forced the either / or question on Scotland.
Do you really think Salmond and Sturgeon want full independence?
Devo-max was never a realistic option for a Scotland-only referendum. (This is one, and possibly the only, correct decision by Cameron imo). It's perfectly acceptable for Scotland to vote on leaving the UK 'club' but it would not, I think, be acceptable to vote on changing the rules of the club unless all the members had a say.
The SNP gained their (slim) majority in Holyrood as a result of the defection of the LibDems to the Tories in Westminster the year before. Even then, they only polled 46% on a roughly 50% turnout. Since they have been in power they have frozen council tax, leaving LAs dependent on Holyrood; centralised control over the police (and fire service); tried (ongoing) to remove the requirement for corroborative evidence in court; overturned local planning decisions; taken over the committee system in Holyrood (and put in place their own presiding officer)... I could go on! Are these the actions of a socialist-leaning party or tartan Tories?
The constant carping about how Scotland should have more of everything fails to acknowledge that if they get their demands, other parts of the UK will be worse off.
I'd add what actually happened with the police too. Manic stop and search.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... h-scotland" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Check this out for a defence of it.
Yeah, you, you're young, you look like a criminal.MacAskill said: "It's not rocket science, it's not happen-chance that there's a clear correlation. It's about being proactive, about preventing crime happening in the first place [and] it's reasonable and proportionate. I don't accept that it's discriminatory. It's quite clear and self-evident that crime is disproportionately perpetrated by young people."